Quoted from Brijam:Funny. I’m pretty confident there’s an equal amount of hot air from the east coast.
They’ve got plenty of wind power in Europe, and they have vastly less space than on the east coast.
Interstingly enough you made me curious, and evidently there is more wind or at least wind potential for energy distributed in the US.
https://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap2/2-06m.html
Quoted from phil-lee:As I understand it Toyota and Honda are using a soy-based polymer for electrical cable covers that are attractive to rodents. This fact has kept me from purchasing a new van as I live in a rural area with a lot of field mice. Perhaps Tesla uses this same cabling?
Most car manufacturers use the soy polymer with the spin that it was done to go "green", but in reality, it's cheaper.
Quoted from Brijam:It’s a popular misconception that solar won’t work outside of California. It’s just not true:
https://www.energy.gov/maps/solar-energy-potential
From that map, the east coast gets just as much sun as the west coast. More than where I live in fact!
The real gains come from household rooftop solar in urban areas IMO. Wind turbines have very small footprints and don’t require large amounts of space.
As far as wind, your claim is that there’s more wind on the west coast??
And it’s safe to call it just ‘energy’ now. Alternative is kind of an 80’s term.
In the suburbs in the metro DC area, solar is not particularly feasible/desirable for rooftops because the houses were not built with the right types of roof angles to keep the panels from sticking out like a sore thumb. Most HOAs would not even allow them because of the aesthetics problem.
Commercial buildings having flat roof construction would seem to be a good place to put more solar panels, but who eats the costs is the age old question?
Just got back from Palo Alto this week and there are Tesla cars everywhere. I would say Prius, then Tesla as the car of choice. I drive a Hyundai Ioniq Blue, which is Hyundai's answer to the Prius. It gets close to 60 mpg, and only cost about 22,000.
They do have a pure electric one, for about 35,000, but I only saw one of those there, and it only gets 124 miles per charge.
I figure my Ioniq will be my bridge car until I can afford to go 100% electric. My round trip commute is about 120 miles per day, and I can't afford a car over 25,000. So, as my wages go up, and prices come down, I figure I'll have one sooner than later.
Quoted from DCFAN:In the suburbs in the metro DC area, solar is not particularly feasible/desirable for rooftops because the houses were not built with the right types of roof angles to keep the panels from sticking out like a sore thumb. Most HOAs would not even allow them because of the aesthetics problem.
Commercial buildings having flat roof construction would seem to be a good place to put more solar panels, but who eats the costs is the age old question?
I’m pretty sure this is why Tesla’s solar tiles were invented - aesthetics.
On large buildings it’s easier to amortize the costs because it is a business. The payoff on these systems is just a few years now. It’s remarkable. Others here will be more knowledgeable about that than I, I don’t have a solar system yet.
Quoted from DCFAN:Most HOAs would not even allow them because of the aesthetics problem.
I don’t think that’s really the case anymore. My Northern VA HOA is as douchey as they come, but they’ve said solar roofs are okay. As to the *economic* feasibility ... VA doesn’t give any incentives, which puts the break even point a long ways off — about 20 years, depending on house orientation, size, and surroundings.
Although if you happen to need a new roof anyway, that improves the math. So I’m basically rooting for hailstorms these days. 
Quoted from pezpunk:I don’t think that’s really the case anymore. My Northern VA HOA is as douchey as they come, but they’ve said solar roofs are okay. As to the *economic* feasibility ... VA doesn’t give any incentives, which puts the break even point a long ways off — about 20 years, depending on house orientation, size, and surroundings.
Although if you happen to need a new roof anyway, that improves the math. So I’m basically rooting for hailstorms these days.
I am curious how the solar roof tiles hold up to hail storms. The more modern 3D asphalt shingles seem to hold up much better than the older style asphalt 2d shingles.
Quoted from DCFAN:I am curious how the solar roof tiles hold up to hail storms. The more modern 3D asphalt shingles seem to hold up much better than the older style asphalt 2d shingles.
well, they're made of tempered glass. Tesla says they'll last forever, and backs up that claim by way of an infinite warranty. they claim they've tested them by blasting the tiles with 110mph baseball-sized hail.
it's a new product, though, so it's hard for me to have a lot of confidence what real world wear-and-tear will be like. but at least the warranty gives peace of mind.
I work in the roofing industry, automating most manufacturing plants in North America. The Tesla tiles look very impressive. They require certified installers, so finding an installer may be difficult. Using the estimator, it's over 50K to do my roof, plus a 7K battery. Offset by whatever tax credits are still available, payoff would be close to 30 years. Yikes. I've wanted solar for our home for awhile, but just can't bite off on that expense. If the payoff were closer to 10 years, then it would be more attractive.
Other manufacturers are dipping their feet in with solar shingles...CertainTeed has been in development for several years (I know the product manager), and now have a viable product. They're probably the largest, backed by worldwide conglomerate Saint-Gobain. Others have come and gone, so it's still a product in its infancy. Maybe the popularity of Tesla can spur growth forward.
Quoted from robertmee:I work in the roofing industry, automating most manufacturing plants in North America. The Tesla tiles look very impressive. They require certified installers, so finding an installer may be difficult. Using the estimator, it's over 50K to do my roof, plus a 7K battery. Offset by whatever tax credits are still available, payoff would be close to 30 years. Yikes. I've wanted solar for our home for awhile, but just can't bite off on that expense. If the payoff were closer to 10 years, then it would be more attractive.
Other manufacturers are dipping their feet in with solar shingles...CertainTeed has been in development for several years (I know the product manager), and now have a viable product. They're probably the largest, backed by worldwide conglomerate Saint-Gobain. Others have come and gone, so it's still a product in its infancy. Maybe the popularity of Tesla can spur growth forward.
Being close to 50, a 30 year payoff does not work for me. Hopefully the technology gains in popularity and the manufacturing process streamlines and materials go down in price. I think these types of hidden/green building technologies are going to have to become the norm at some point. It also would help protect against attacks to the power grid to have more localized power sources.
Quoted from MrBally:There were solar panel and small wind generator retailers for homes in the USA in the mid-late '70's. They were all gone by 1985.
Yes, but we are now talking about technology that blends in with the appearance of the building. Also, the technology for solar has improved a bit since the seventies in both manufacturing panels and cost. As a former power engineer, I don't and never have felt solar is the definitive answer to bolstering the power grid but it can be a helping part of that. Right now a good portion of scientists believe that Nuclear is where we have neglected because of fear. Even the issue of storing of the spent fuel rods has caused a breakdown of using the technology because of the fear.
I'm intrigued more of the idea of storing power on a large scale. Like batteries for a neighborhood. If the power is generated 24/7, like hydro-electric or nuclear, and store the excess for later, that would be a pretty intriguing solution.
Quoted from frolic:I'm intrigued more of the idea of storing power on a large scale. Like batteries for a neighborhood. If the power is generated 24/7, like hydro-electric or nuclear, and store the excess for later, that would be a pretty intriguing solution.
I also think that has very interesting potential.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
Quoted from pezpunk:mine does 0-60 in about 2.4 seconds. you can do as many drag passes as you want, it's unlikely to ever go into limp mode at a drag strip unless you are doing them literally non-stop without any breaks between, which is impossible unless you are the only person at the drag strip. each quarter mile pass only use about 1.5% of the battery. so unless you're doing several dozen passes, it's a non-issue.
if you try to do laps at a track, yes, it will go into reduced power mode. it really was designed to be a family sedan, not a track car. the idea to make it the quickest sedan ever only came after they realized the crazy potential of the thing.
neither of those apply to my usage of the car, though. i keep it in Ludicrous mode all the time. i don't drive like a maniac, but if some joker in a Hellcat starts revving his engine at me, i can put him in my rear view mirror before his car is even done shifting into the correct gear. on ramps and stoplights are always fun.
I, too, live in Ludicrous. I mean, why wouldn't you? (P90D so a tad slower than your P100D but crazy nonetheless)
I have the dual battery standard motor model 3. I find that I'm having a hard time NOT snap-accelerating to squirt into openings between cars or passing just for the fun of it, and am turning into a bit of a dick on the roads. I'm working on my self control right now . . .
I can't imagine what a douchebag I'd be if I had the M3 dual motor performance model. Glad I bought mine before these were available.
Just saying . . .
Quoted from crwjumper:I have to say . . .
I have the dual battery standard motor model 3. I find that I'm having a hard time NOT snap-accelerating to squirt into openings between cars or passing just for the fun of it, and am turning into a bit of a dick on the roads. I'm working on my self control right now . . .
I can't imagine what a douchebag I'd be if I had the M3 dual motor performance model. Glad I bought mine before these were available.
Even the standard 3 seems to have impressive acceleration...I think Tesla published 5.0 0-60 but I'm reading reports from real world users in the 4.5 range. Have to appreciate a company under exaggerating performance.
Quoted from scott_freeman:A company that will not sell service parts. Good luck with that.
I think you have to appreciate that the cars Rich is trying to repair are salvage vehicles that have been written off and the owner has already received a settlement from his insurance company. These cars are dead to the manufacturer and they don't want some guy watching Rich's channel to try and resurrect a car that could lead to a serious problem in the future. It's not like they won't sell parts for cars that haven't been declared salvage.
I watch Rich's channel and I like it. I have even noticed that Rich has an appreciation for the manufacturers position on parts for salvage vehicles even though he is at odds with it during these reconstructs. I am concerned for this latest project that Rich has been working on for the last while since unlike his last salvage this one was underwater for 10 days. I'll be curious to see if he's able to finish and better yet do it with a budget at least 25% under a comparable used version.
Pleeeeeeease, don't tell me Tesla hired the designer from Lexus. That is one ugly car. Give me curves, not creases.
Quoted from Manhattan:I am concerned for this latest project that Rich has been working on for the last while since unlike his last salvage this one was underwater for 10 days. I'll be curious to see if he's able to finish
me too.. I mean circuit boards can usually be repaired (so long as components are available) even if traces have to be blasted to prevent further corossion (or jumpered). I didn't look closely but I would imagine the boards are surface mount (which makes repair far harder). That electric motor though, that definitely had some red water coming out. Unless you want to grind the rotor and re-wire the stator, I don't see how that's going to get repaired. Who knows, maybe he'll run into someone else like him that has non-flooded boards and motor and is either willing to sell it, or trade it for parts that he has.
Quoted from toyotaboy:me too.. I mean circuit boards can usually be repaired (so long as components are available) even if traces have to be blasted to prevent further corossion (or jumpered). I didn't look closely but I would imagine the boards are surface mount (which makes repair far harder). That electric motor though, that definitely had some red water coming out. Unless you want to grind the rotor and re-wire the stator, I don't see how that's going to get repaired. Who knows, maybe he'll run into someone else like him that has non-flooded boards and motor and is either willing to sell it, or trade it for parts that he has.
Delores required Rich to change every wire, nut, and bolt because of the salt water corrosion. I would take fresh water (not salt) any day and clean what can be cleaned. He's still going to have to transfer most parts from the donor car over to the new flood car, but I believe the new flood car is a better starting point other than the price he paid for it.
Quoted from robertmee:That's interesting, thanks. I had no idea that Oregon was that far into alternative energy conversion. Impressive. I can see how west coast cities with the wind and sun availability as well as open lands to build solar and wind farms are oit pacing us on the east. I just wonder how the more densely populated areas in the mid and north east will be able to make those transitions.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-is-in-on-tesla-model-3/page/28#post-4371275
Sweet design. It’s a lot more ostentatious than the existing Model S, but I love it. The rear lines are gorgeous.
This should be interesting to watch. If Elon doesn't follow through, the SEC will likely fine him big time (bigly?) for making a communication to manipulate stock prices. They may force his hand if he was only considering going private. Personally I'm a big fan of Elon Musk and hope that this all turns out well.
Shares are now suspended. This is a clear case of market manipulation, whether he has anything to back it up or not. The company itself would have had to make an official filing expressing what he did, before he did. It didn't.
He should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law allows.
That aside, I'm sure taking it private would be his wet dream. They wouldn't have to worry about what Wall St thought, as they continued to lose money hand over fist, margins looked awful, and competition intensified. They could instead keep information to an absolute minimum (as being a private entity in the US would allow),throw accounting and securities rulebooks out of the window, and court evangelical investors.
Ok, business experts and Tesla supporters....is this good, bad, crazy, or brilliant? I'm shocked, but really don't know what to think. Any precedent for a large company to do this?
Edit: Answer my own question....Dell computer, Panera Bread, Burger King and Heinz.
It sounds like he may have a deal with some Saudis to take the company private. We shall see.
Elon probably does not want to have to answer to the shareholders and the press anymore. Without shareholders he likely will be able to call the shots more the way he wants when he wants.
Quoted from Darscot:The irony if the Saudis end up owning electric car.
They are looking to diversify before oil or demand thereof runs out.
Elon is tired of the Shorts. What better way than squeeze them for a couple of billion then say your goodbyes by going private. It will be structured some what like Spacex where the current shareholders can stay on board for the long ride or sell out at $420.00 per share.
Quoted from DCFAN:They are looking to diversify before oil or demand thereof runs out.
I'm just dumbfounded that the EPA is actively working against the environment and the oil barons of the middle east are trying to diversify and go green.
Quoted from Nilroc:Elon is tired of the Shorts. What better way than squeeze them for a couple of billion then say your goodbyes by going private. It will be structured some what like Spacex where the current shareholders can stay on board for the long ride or sell out at $420.00 per share.
When you're a private share holder, what determines value of your shares going forward? Is it strictly P/E?
Quoted from Darscot:I'm just dumbfounded that the EPA is actively working against the environment and the oil barons of the middle east are trying to diversify and go green.
Strange times indeed....all comes down to money.
Quoted from robertmee:When you're a private share holder, what determines value of your shares going forward? Is it strictly P/E?
No, it is substantially more complex than that. The price is often set by the latest round of investors. Your opportunities to exit become more difficult because the shares are no longer traded on a public exchange.
Quoted from rubberducks:Shares are now suspended. This is a clear case of market manipulation, whether he has anything to back it up or not.
Not surprising that this is your first reaction. You've been consistently wrong so far, congratulations on extending your losing streak.
I'm sure he's very damn sick of idiots attacking him all day while he continues to actually kick ass and deliver astonishingly fantastic products. I'm sure he's also as damn sick and tired of shorts manipulating the market against Tesla with falsehoods, misrepresentations and outright lies.
Elon knows what he is doing. He may receive a slap on the wrist from the SEC, he may not.
With respect to the email he sent to his employees discussing going private, he makes a compelling case. Personally I'm not sure yet, but I sure see where he is coming from. I despise this short term focus on quarterly profit while China does the 50-100 year plan and demolishes us.
Quoted from rubberducks:competition intensified
Rubberducks you just don't get it. Currently Tesla has no competition. The competition that is currently out there Tesla is destroying. Competition are not intensifying their sales are getting worse. Tesla is the real deal!
Quoted from Nilroc:Rubberducks you just don't get it. Currently Tesla has no competition. The competition that is currently out there Tesla is destroying. Competition are not intensifying their sales are getting worse. Tesla is the real deal!
Lol.
Oh it's LOL alright. LOL how they are dominating. Have a look for yourself:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/06/7-charts-tesla-model-3-vs-the-competition-us-sales/
Quoted from Nilroc:Oh it's LOL alright. LOL how they are dominating. Have a look for yourself:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/06/7-charts-tesla-model-3-vs-the-competition-us-sales/
It also does not help that people have been trending toward small and midsize SUVs for the last 10 years.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-american-car.html
Just about every realtor I see drives a Lexus RX350 or the like.
That is the area Tesla should go after soon with a stylish SUV with a cargo size similar to a Toyota Highlander or Honda CRV for less than $60,000.
Okay all, it's not just here, but I see it on other car forums I read, like Car & Driver. Usually, you read back and forth that one car is better than another and one is more reliable than another. However, only with Tesla people talk about the company itself (GM bailouts aside) and argue over stock prices, money spent vs. income, etc. instead of the car. Why is that?
Why do people focus so much on the financials of Tesla when talking about cars and not talking about the cars themselves? Remember all, this is an American company, so why would anyone of us Americans be rooting for their failure? Yes, that is what many people come across as portraying. There are definitely flaws in the cars themselves that bring interesting conversation instead.
Quoted from RyanStl:Okay all, it's not just here, but I see it on other car forums I read, like Car & Driver. Usually, you read back and forth that one car is better than another and one is more reliable than another. However, only with Tesla people talk about the company itself (GM bailouts aside) and argue over stock prices, money spent vs. income, etc. instead of the car. Why is that?
Why do people focus so much on the financials of Tesla when talking about cars and not talking about the cars themselves? Remember all, this is an American company, so why would anyone of us Americans be rooting for their failure? Yes, that is what many people come across as portraying. There are definitely flaws in the cars themselves that bring interesting conversation instead.
Maybe because Tesla is the first new successful car company in a hundred years, the business of their success is interesting.
Tesla also tends to draw a highly sophisticated, tech-savvy buyer... hehehe (ahem) and we like to talk about more than hemis and quarter mile times.
Disruptive events also attract a lot of uneducated naysayers who can’t see the change in front of them. There were similar arguments with e-commerce (remember when that was controversial?), digital cameras, streaming music and video services, even ATMs had huge detractors bemoaning the end of ‘personal banking’ and massive job loss, banks being able to rip you off, etc.
Quoted from robertmee:Ok, business experts and Tesla supporters....is this good, bad, crazy, or brilliant? I'm shocked, but really don't know what to think. Any precedent for a large company to do this?
Edit: Answer my own question....Dell computer, Panera Bread, Burger King and Heinz.
I'm no expert, but I see no possible way for this to be done (as Musk describes) without a massive injection of tens of BILLIONS.
The first thing that caught my eye was the $420/share buyout figure. The first thing you have to do is calculate how many people have to be bought out - how many people hold shares. Luckily, this figure, called "free float", is readily available on most financial web sites.
I just looked it up and TSLA is reporting a free float of 126.03 million.
126.03 x 420 = $52.93 BILLION
Also, TSLA has a net debt of around $8.8 BILLION
So, right out of the gate, you are going to have to raise around $61 BILLION, and we haven't even begun to talk about free cash flow, working capital, or debt service.
LBOs are generally very complex, as there is a massive amount of cash involved. So the vast majority of money has to be borrowed. So the lending entities start looking at things like the aforementioned FCF and debt service.
The bottom line - would you borrow $60+ BILLION dollars to a car company that is losing $8-16 million dollars a day?
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