(Topic ID: 180867)

Who Here Likes Premier/Gottlieb?


By Pinball-DOOD

3 years ago



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  • 124 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 27 days ago by MT45
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There are 866 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 18.
#101 3 years ago
Quoted from RyThom:

I have nothing but love for Gottlieb/Premier games!
I currently own a Big Hurt and a Gladiators (both never leaving) and am about to head out on an 1,100 mile journey to pick up a Robo War! YEAH!

I've heard a couple people now say they like big hurt. Honestly, I'm not much of a baseball fan, but picked up dirty vendor project one like over a year ago.

It looks in good shape, just black in dirt; I've been debating how much money I wanted to put into it, as I got it missing the DMD and driver board

It's not top on my project list, but maybe I should go ahead and start looking for parts afterall. I was on the fence about it, but do want to fix it up.

And, as I've learned about any manufacturer, sometimes you love the art/theme but not the game; sometimes love the game but don't like the theme; sometimes both/neither.

Not knocking big hurt at all! More like thinking I need to give it a good chance. I do like the colors etc of art.

#102 3 years ago

with over 100 posts in short order and this thread on fire on a Friday morning... pretty obvious to me there are more Gottlieb lovers now than just a short time ago.

Cool to see people are cathcing on and glad I picked up my hard core keepers a few years back.

#103 3 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

am A-OK with them, some fun games to be had, but the system and its problems....hurrrg

With all the new available boards and updated product ... Not really an issue anymore !

#104 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

Like having my hi-score up high for the world to see hahah

I always thought it was funny how Gottlieb went from HUGE blue displays to tiny, borderline unreadable blue displays.

Clearly these guys never read the story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

#105 3 years ago

I would definitely own a SFII if there was one around here FS. People saying they have passed up on 3x SFII for $600. SEND THEM MY WAY!

#106 3 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

I like some of them. I would say that Robo War, TX, Alien Star, Deadly Weapon, and Star Race are my favorite ones. I also like Black Hole but never enough to own one.
I had a Hollywood Heat, Sinbad, Joker Poker, Victory and a Stargate and thought those were all VERY good games too, but I eventually moved them along.
I guess they are all just too similar to hold my interest. Hell, more than half of them were designed by my favorite pinball designer.
I still have Alien Star and quite honestly for what it's worth, it has the best 80's space theme, sound and graphics for any pinball from it's time.
I will never sell my Fast Draw. I've had it for over 10 years now.

You - and many others in this thread - are confusing the 70s and 80s with the 90s. Gottlieb games of the 70s are fantastic. Even their late 70s SS games are good - the only issue is that they were just EMs with digital scoring which seemed pretty sad and out dated compared to what Williams and Bally were putting out at the time.

The 80s games have some gems but by this time Gottlieb was already far, far behind Williams in terms of kick-ass next-level games. Sure, I love Alien Star and some of the other Fat Boy flipper games of the time, but seriously...compare something like Raven, Hollywood Heat or Bounty Hunter to pretty much ANY Williams game built from 1984-1990 and it's just pathetic.

So yeah, Fast Draw is cool. So is Black Hole. But as the 80s wore on Gottlieb was missing far more than it was hitting. Around 1990 it just gets sad...sure something like Silver Slugger is kind of fun but compare it to Whirlind and Funhouse and frankly it's a miracle the company was still in business.

Their 90s stuff is truly awful. no I haven't played Stargate. If it's as good as people always try to say it is, maybe Premier put out ONE game in the 1990s that can hang with the B/W stuff.

14
#107 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Their 90s stuff is truly awful. no I haven't played Stargate. If it's as good as people always try to say it is, maybe Premier put out ONE game in the 1990s that can hang with the B/W stuff.

The thing is, you don't *have* to compare them to B/W stuff. The games aren't competing against each other in the arcade space anymore, so it doesn't really matter.

Just take the games as they are and enjoy them for what they are. If they are better or worse than a different game from the same year, it doesn't really matter at this point.

#108 3 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive?query=&machine_generation=17#results

90s GTB sys 3 games that are super fun and worth putting in a collection with pride IMO

Stargate
Rescue 911
TOff
Gladiators
Wipe Out
CBW
OT
1812
Vegas
CCruise

#109 3 years ago

still a few that I have not listed as I dont have enough time on them to decide.

#110 3 years ago

Class of 1812 I feel is way underated gameplay wise. It's easy yes but there's a lot to do and it's fun! Not just the clucking chickens but the spinner sound is funny as hell as well as the chattering teeth. Don't even get me started on the Beating Heart and when the whole playfield goes dark and you think there's something wrong but it's supposed to do that! Fun chainsaw sound when you nail the right ramp. Targets behind the drops which there are plenty of and nice lightshow! I love that one!

classof1812 (resized).jpg

#111 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I always thought it was funny how Gottlieb went from HUGE blue displays to tiny, borderline unreadable blue displays.
Clearly these guys never read the story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

I'd love a modded speaker panel for 80b games with just two giant led displays

#112 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The thing is, you don't *have* to compare them to B/W stuff. The games aren't competing against each other in the arcade space anymore, so it doesn't really matter.

I get what Levi is saying though. At the time, they WERE competing for the same floor space as B/W, and if given the option, why would anyone select the "technically" inferior product? I guess when Gottlieb introduced the System 3 boardset while Williams was still using System 11, they had a minute lead for like a couple months, but that's neither here nor there.

But I also agree with you. These days, people can just buy what they like and call it a day. There isn't really a need to compare Gottlieb to B/W or any other manufacturer. It's not like they're vying for people's money, or competing to win anything--other than floorspace in someone's gameroom.

#113 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I always thought it was funny how Gottlieb went from HUGE blue displays to tiny, borderline unreadable blue displays.
Clearly these guys never read the story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

Have you played one in person? The displays are super bright and easy to see. The blue really stands out.

#114 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It's not a hack. A hack is when you do something the wrong way because you can't (no parts on hand, available, to time, etc) do it the right way. If it's a mistake from the manufacturer (as the whole sys3 mech is), then it's not a hack. Like the ground *mods*.
A hack is installing a secondary extension spring on a flipper because it's binding. A mod is replacing the compression return spring with an extension spring to improve the flipper action.
You see something that you think is wrong with a game, and you attempt to fix it. That's a mod
Also, the opposite of 'widely accepted' isn't 'unknown' (as this mod seems to be from the reaction in the thread).

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. The definition of hack has actually expanded through recent years to include both positive and negative meanings.

The original common defintion was taken from computer programming; to make a quick modification to the code of a computer program, often one that, while being effective, is inelegant. This is the common negative meaning. It works, but it's inelegant, sloppy, unprofessional, perhaps unsafe or something like that.

The positive definition of hack is: to apply a trick, shortcut, skill, or novelty method to something to increase productivity, efficiency or ease. So, your modification of the the flippers is still considered to fall into the definition of a hack...a positive one if it makes an improvement.

The word mod isn't necessarily just your definition to fix something that is wrong. There are plenty of mods that change things such as add features that were never even there before, and to purists this can be a considered a bad thing...regardless of whether you call it a hack or a mod.

#115 3 years ago

YO, if you hate Gottlieb so much, why are you on this page? (To the people hating). This thread is intended to recognize how fun and innovative Gottlieb concepts are. It's a breath of fresh air from the Gottlieb haters crawling all over the pinball world who only play Bally/Williams and nothing else.

#116 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

The displays are super bright and easy to see. The blue really stands out.

I think he's referring to the displays they used for most of the System 80B generation. They were quite small, especially if you compare it to the massive blue beacons they used for the 8-segment displays, or the really in-your-face plasma displays everyone else used.

Gottlieb did eventually use a more reasonable size alphanumeric display later in the 80B's life, and all through the a/n displays of System 3. Those are really nice.

#117 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

YO, if you hate Gottlieb so much, why are you on this page? (To the people hating).

Thats exactly why so many Gottliebs are so highly underrated, people go in with a bias, I was guilty of this when I first started collecting and I bought the must haves, MM, MB,CC TOTAN etc. while they were great I don't have any of them anymore and they lasted as long as the 80's and 90's gottliebs, its just pretentious pinball tom foolery, however as most pinheads have played and owned 90's B/W 2 or 3 times over one starts to look elsewhere, I love them all.

#118 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Thats exactly why so many Gottliebs are so highly underrated, people go in with a bias, I was guilty of this when I first started collecting and I bought the must haves, MM, MB,CC TOTAN etc. while they were great I don't have any of them anymore and they lasted as long as the 80's and 90's gottliebs, its just pretentious pinball tom foolery, however as most pinheads have played and owned 90's B/W 2 or 3 times over one starts to look elsewhere, I love them all.

Me too! I was guilty of not giving Gottlieb Premier games a chance, then I did and I love them

#119 3 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

I think he's referring to the displays they used for most of the System 80B generation. They were quite small, especially if you compare it to the massive blue beacons they used for the 8-segment displays, or the really in-your-face plasma displays everyone else used.
Gottlieb did eventually use a more reasonable size alphanumeric display later in the 80B's life, and all through the a/n displays of System 3. Those are really nice.

Oh I know. The displays were small but they are easy to read for me. Never had trouble with them.

#120 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Thats exactly why so many Gottliebs are so highly underrated, people go in with a bias, .

People say this - and maybe it's true for johnny come lately newbies....but get real.

When I was in college there was an Addams Family and Creature next to a Class of 1812, with an operation thunder and a Rollergames at the student union bar next door. I didn't know shit about which manufacturer was supposed to be better, or what some pointless online "ranking" was going to tell people 20 years later.

All I knew was that TAF and Creature sucked me in and I couldn't stop playing them, and that after about 2 credits on Class of 1812 I had absolutely no desire to play it again. At the place next door the same thing happened with Rollergames and Operation Thunder.

I had no bias and no preconceived notions, I just put money into the games that were fun. Like everybody else.

#121 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

People say this - and maybe it's true for johnny come lately newbies....but get real.
When I was in college there was an Addams Family and Creature next to a Class of 1812, with an operation thunder and a Rollergames at the student union bar next door. I didn't know shit about which manufacturer was "better."
All I knew was that TAF and Creature sucked me in and I couldn't stop playing them, and that after about 2 credits on Class of 1812 I had absolutely no desire to play it again. At the place next door the same thing happened with Rollergames and Operation Thunder.
I had no bias and no preconceived notions, I just put money into the games that were fun. Like everybody else.

That was back in the day. Now, some of us are sick of playing the same pins over and over. It gets old.

#122 3 years ago

I love Rollergames to death it's one of my favorite games! Again, I've seen a lot of them and it's cool to see other games

#123 3 years ago

The funny thing about Premier is I really do appreciate the off-the-wall layouts, they really were working out of a totally different rulebook and it's cool that they were willing to innovate. I just can't stand everything else, especially if it's supposed to be a funny pin. Tee'd Off gives me secondhand embarrassment cramps every time there's a voice clip and the rapping in Class of 1812 makes me wish I had a screwdriver to jam into my ears. I will say that they're a great time capsule into an almost totally lost brand of humor, that kind of late-80s spinning-bowtie late-night public access "what's the deal with Mondays" cheese. Playing one makes me feel like I'm at a convention for novelty coffee mugs.

#124 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

YO, if you hate Gottlieb so much, why are you on this page? (To the people hating). This thread is intended to recognize how fun and innovative Gottlieb concepts are. It's a breath of fresh air from the Gottlieb haters crawling all over the pinball world who only play Bally/Williams and nothing else.

I up voted this as hard as I could.

Though, people wont get it...maybe you should start over with 2 threads; Gott haters club + Gott lovers club. Then people can decide which path they choose to follow.

#125 3 years ago

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

#126 3 years ago

Yeah the idea that "haters" are supposed to stay out of any thread at all is pretty silly.

Pinside is built upon a foundation of bitching, arguing, and nutswinging, and that will never change.

The entire internet is, in fact. And porn of course.

#127 3 years ago

The systems 3's other then stargate have quirky rules next to other games from the same time frame.

#128 3 years ago

So once again most lovers of premier are bored of everything else and gravitate towards cheap ass games that are wacky because they are unlike great games of the time.
Congrats!

#129 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That is not a mod! That is a flat out hack and he thinks he is smarter than the designers. Laughable and insulting to some of the best designers in the trade.
Do whatever you want to bastardize your games, but pretty silly for him to sell that as a mod. Most likely scenario was he did not have a GTB rebuild on hand one day so decided to use sys11 stops and then sold it as an 'improvement'.
GTB games have the extra flipper travel for a reason. For many it is because they have awesome long tight shots up steep ramps which require the full flipper travel to move the ball. Others it was because if you could post pass then the game would be too easy and too controlled. A properly set up GTB with correct flippers is plenty difficult.
For any new person reading all this, PLEASE dont ruin an awesome gottlieb by hacking it with the wrong flipper parts.
Clay knows lots of great stuff and even though he is the pinball ninja, he sometimes does flat out hacks like this. Luckily, this can be easily corrected to be stock.

Well, you're wrong, it's not a hack, it's a modification... it can easily be done using Gottleib Sys 1 parts and can be undone in a matter of seconds.

Really sorry that this got your panties in a wad, but on the bright side had made it incredibly easy to stick you on the ignore list. Seriously, who has time to read a mini-tantrum cryfest?

You asked, I told you... you really not need to lecture.

#130 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

And porn of course.

computer (resized).png

#131 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

So once again most lovers of premier are bored of everything else and gravitate towards cheap ass games that are wacky because they are unlike great games of the time.
Congrats!

It's true that most are cheaper than most A-list games. Trying to compare them to A-list games is simply doing them a disservice. Nobody said they were A-list games.

If A-list games weren't $3k-$10k each, I would probably be buying those. But for the same price as one A-list game, I can get a whole row of slightly lesser games and have an interesting variety of layouts and themes.

So yeah, price does play a factor, but if Gottlieb games were complete duds, I probably wouldn't own them. But, they do have some redeeming features, and can be fun to play. So, if you don't want them, I'll happily take them. Or, if you want to give me a few A-list games for bargain basement prices, I wouldn't complain about that either.

#133 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

It's true that most are cheaper than most A-list games. Trying to compare them to A-list games is simply doing them a disservice. Nobody said they were A-list games.

Can we compare them to B and C list games?

There's not a single 90s premier game as good as Demo Man, T2, NBA Fastbreak, Corvette, Doctor Who, BSD, Dirty Harry, Jackbot, Gilligan's Island...uhh...Popeye? I don't know you might have a case there, but personally I'd take the popeye. You get the confusing nonsensical rules and bad layout of a Gottlieb System 3 but you still get the quality flippers, sound, and art of a WPC game.

#134 3 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

There are plenty of mods that change things such as add features that were never even there before, and to purists this can be a considered a bad thing...regardless of whether you call it a hack or a mod.

If they think it should have had a feature but didn't, then they think something is wrong.

Sometimes a hack is worthwhile because the correct way is so much harder to do, but it's still a hack.

#135 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can we compare them to B and C list games?
There's not a single 90s premier game as good as Demo Man, T2, NBA Fastbreak, Corvette, Doctor Who, BSD, Dirty Harry, Jackbot, Gilligan's Island...uhh...Popeye? I don't know you might have a case there, but personally I'd take the popeye. You get the confusing nonsensical rules and bad layout of a Gottlieb System 3 but you still get the quality flippers, sound, and art of a WPC game.

I'll take Stargate over anything on that list besides demo man. And for less money than most of them, too. Hell, I'd take waterworld over most of them...

#136 3 years ago

I wasn't complainng that arguing about both sides is wrong to do, at all. I TOTALLY agree (and typically enjoy) arguments supporting both sides of things, etc. You guys are right, that is what a lot of this is about for all (being sincere).

However, in this case, I am trying to show respect to the OP of this thread. This does not sound like a thread created to debate good or bad (there are TONS of those) but more for people to discuss what they specifically like about 80B and SYS3 games.

I mean, guys...even the OP jumped back in and kinda asked people to basically take it somewhere else; stating "This thread is intended to recognize how fun and innovative Gottlieb concepts are..."

Maybe I'm mistaken; if so, my appologies...just how I was viewing it.

#137 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Laughable and insulting to some of the best designers in the trade.
.

Bwahaha....OK we've finally jumped the shark now. The 3 Wisemen of Norris, Tanzer, & Trudeau the best in the biz?
Spotted Cow flowing early on a friday?

#138 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Well, you're wrong, it's not a hack, it's a modification... it can easily be done using Gottleib Sys 1 parts and can be undone in a matter of seconds.
Really sorry that this got your panties in a wad, but on the bright side had made it incredibly easy to stick you on the ignore list. Seriously, who has time to read a mini-tantrum cryfest?
You asked, I told you... you really not need to lecture.

bye felicia.

Pretty sure you are the only one getting your panties in a knot. It is a hack. A reversible hack, but a hack none the less. When you change the play of a game dramatically from how the designer intended then you have hacked the game. Changing flipper travel falls into that catergory for me and many others that respect the intent of the original designer.

If it was an actual flaw of the design then I would say you could call it a mod (for example over powering the coils on LOTR because they overheat during long games is a mod as it was a flaw of the oringal game you made better).

Since you have me on ignore now, I am just typing this for the clarification and understanding of other new people lurking so they dont bastardize their GTB 80b or premier decks cause they cant handle a new flipper style.

#139 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can we compare them to B and C list games?
There's not a single 90s premier game as good as Demo Man, T2, NBA Fastbreak, Corvette, Doctor Who, BSD, Dirty Harry, Jackbot, Gilligan's Island...uhh...Popeye? I don't know you might have a case there, but personally I'd take the popeye. You get the confusing nonsensical rules and bad layout of a Gottlieb System 3 but you still get the quality flippers, sound, and art of a WPC game.

I can't argue your comparison, but you can have Popeye.

#140 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Norris, Tanzer, & Trudeau

by far some fo the best, most innovative, and prolific designers of all time!

#141 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

It's true that most are cheaper than most A-list games. Trying to compare them to A-list games is simply doing them a disservice. Nobody said they were A-list games.

I only made a reference to 1 set of games of the times and now your acting like that's the entire crux of what I'm saying, which it clearly isn't. Premiere games are worse than everything made basically....they are worse than DE also.

I mean that isn't a hard 100%...DM is horrible...I'd probably take some premier over it (although I can't think of one...I'd take nothing)

#142 3 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I wasn't complainng that arguing about both sides is wrong to do, at all. I TOTALLY agree (and typically enjoy) arguments supporting both sides of things, etc. You guys are right, that is what a lot of this is about for all (being sincere).
However, in this case, I am trying to show respect to the OP of this thread. This does not sound like a thread created to debate good or bad (there are TONS of those) but more for people to discuss what they specifically like about 80B and SYS3 games.
I mean, guys...even the OP jumped back in and kinda asked people to basically take it somewhere else; stating "This thread is intended to recognize how fun and innovative Gottlieb concepts are..."
Maybe I'm mistaken; if so, my appologies...just how I was viewing it.

If you truly love a thread, you must set it free. The OP don't get to set the rules.

#143 3 years ago

OP: may I make a suggestion and simply rename your thread to something like - another Gottlieb hater thread? Lol.

Now you see why Gottlieb fans don't bother discussing so much I guess.

I see this thread going nowhere good, sorry.

Enjoy guys!

#144 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

by far some fo the best, most innovative, and prolific designers of all time!

I'll give you prolific

Hey aren't you a route operator? How does your collection of Premier games do at the cash box?

#145 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'll give you prolific

Hey aren't you a route operator? How does your collection of Premier games do at the cash box?

By that logic MM is a good game...

#146 3 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

OP: may I make a suggestion and simply rename your thread to something like - another Gottlieb hater thread? Lol.
Now you see why Gottlieb fans don't bother discussing so much I guess.
I see this thread going nowhere good, sorry.
Enjoy guys!

Could just make it the 'Gottlieb only fan club'. Pretty sure that si how pinside works. Make a club specific thread and the trolls get the boot quickly. Sad that yet again the same 3 or 4 guys dump on some great games again/everytime to try and control the conversation.

-1
#147 3 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Now you see why Gottlieb fans don't bother discussing so much I guess.

1. It's premier, not Gottlieb which I own.
2. They hide because when they crawl out Whysnow is their leader

#148 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Sad that yet again the same 3 or 4 guys dump on some great games again/everytime to try and control the conversation.

You are fucking drunk right dude...seriously, you're typing this, You?

#149 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

By that logic MM is a good game...

What logic?

I'm interested in how Whysnow's vast collection of Premier games do on route.

#150 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'll give you prolific

Hey aren't you a route operator? How does your collection of Premier games do at the cash box?

I dont put many gottliebs out as they are way too valuable to me to get beat on route.

The ones I have put out have done EXCEPTIONALLY well. Tee'd Off in particular beat most of what you woudl call classic B/W games for 6 months straight. It only left as it was a gift for my brother. It only went on route so I could get any bug worked out before it went to him. Worth note that it had ZERO issues the entier 6 months it was on route, which also helped with earnings. It is also one of the most requested games to return form the regulars.

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