LOL! I was a strong 6.5-7 back in my day, nothing more

No body is turning against them. Look if problems can't be identified and dealt with, then that alone is an issue.

I have a pretty large personal stake in the phof. I would say, and Tim can confirm, besides Tim, me and Jim are the biggest financial contributors to the project. (In excess of 40k). So what are your contributions? Twenty buck?? Report back when you're a major stake holder. I've earned a right to try and help steer the whale.

I am not sure to be honest.

Has anyone close to them offered to step in and help them to liquidate?
I could see something like a deal of "I will help you look through your collection, make a list of all duplicates/triplicates, and then for every one of those games I will clean up and make 1 nice one in exchange for the other"

I say this from the head of a person that has pinball hoarding tendancies. IF I had a sizable collection with duplicates I would be most willing to let duplicates go for cheap, IF I knew I would have 1 good playing game out of the deal.

I have found many times the hoarder mentality needs to be appealed to at the core. Do they value one fully working game over 2 or 3 repeats that are not? Do they value others getting to enjoy the games over the games sitting in a shed? Each person and their values in these situations are very different. You need to find out what really makes them tick.

If someone can build a good relationship with one of these super hoarders then there is a chance to help them find a solution. There is also the chance of helping them to make their current collection bring them more satisfaction.

No matter what it will take some hard work from someone that is very determined, has the skill, and is willing to put in the time to make it happen.

Clay's right, it's a sickness. At one point I rented a storefront to hold my collection of 30+ games and I'd keep filling even now. Right now the only thing really stopping me is lack of space at home, and even then there's two more in the garage getting worked on I don't have space for.

Also he's hardly attacking Tim or putting him down. He's pointing out a serious problem and, honestly, doing it pretty gently. I've been in Tim's backyard warehouse and it was kinda a scary mess a decade ago, I can only imagine now. I know a local collector with 300+ games, most of which are stacked on shelves and haven't seen the light of day in years.

It's great they're being saved, but it's like a car you never drive and just leave under a car cover. It's kinda sad they don't get to be enjoyed.

Great post.

That leads me to another post: Asking, "what would our ideal pinball community look like:"

I want to know what other big dreams people have for pinball...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/your-ideal-pinball-world

-mof

I totally get what you're saying, but wouldn't the PHOF be a better service to the public if it had only 50 games that all played decent? Was there a few days ago and I'll probably never go back.

To each his own! I love it there and have a lot of respect for Tim and his work despite the quirks. Y'all can hate me for that all you like. I'm not trying to fight with anyone, and I'm not trying to start a pissing battle. Gotta go work on games all day but it was nice chatting, Whysnow hopefully your post inspires some positive direction, idea-wise.

Curtis, I think you're being a little too sensitive here. You've received 1 down-vote (mine, simply because I disagreed with your initial post) and a bunch of people discussing this issue with you (e.g., ryanwanger's post above). Where's the hate? I don't see anyone fighting with you or getting into a pissing battle?

You aren't seeing the PMs!

Ehhh I can't dick around online all day today defending my stance because I have two jobs, and also I don't see the point. Like I said, direct your thumbs where ever you see fit. Have a good afternoon.

I would Nominate the Banker ,,, Out of his 34 or 35 Pins , Only 2 are B/W's and the rest are Sterns and WOZECLE . I plan on going to his pad 2-morrow to check out his WWE LE and do a game play video and a Vid- of his Collection ..

Centerflank has a large collection of Star Wars toys for sale .

300 games in Paris in a very nice museum. Great story.

http://www.pinballnews.com/sites/parispinballmuseum/index.html

Not true
i have bought a Black Hole and Williams Set Up EM
from him or the Las Vegas Pinball collectors Club or whatever his non profit is called.

I'm just lying on the floor having a rest from moving pins around ... Thought the group might like this pic. 22 system 11s in a row (on the left ...)

Cyclone is under repair.

rd.

image.jpg

He also had a High Hand for sale that I almost bought. I did not like the playfield condition and passed. Was ready to take it and store it at a friend's place in Henderson who worked at Bally.

Tim also sold an Amazing Spiderman to a guy in NY that I helped troubleshoot over the phone recently so I know he does sell sometimes.

Steve

Reading this thread, i wonder if my feelings should be hurt or feel ashamed?!?!

Wow. I imagine that must be a sight for anyone visiting. I think my head would explode if I walked into that room.

If seeing your pins makes you happy it shouldn't matter what others say.

A few heads have exploded here

The best thing is turning people onto System 11 games.

Most Kiwis start as 1990s BW snobs (because the interwebs says they're the best so they must be!!) so I try to have some different games here for the punters to play when they come over. You can play a Twilight Zone at everyones house ...

Currently collecting 70s/80s SS Ballys and Sterns as they are very thin on the ground here in NZ.

rd.

If the museum can use your donated games and get them on display to the public, you should feel proud.

rd.

You are telling! You have four machines! That's double what I own!

It makes sense to me. I used to work at a theme park. People told me all the time I had to have the coolest job ever. Yet, when my shift was over, regardless of if I knew the park was empty or not, the LAST thing I wanted to do was go to the park. And I LOVE theme parks. But yeesh, get me out of the one that I work at. No interest in doing anything there, it took me five years from when I last went there before I wanted to go back.

I can tell you a few reasons. I may or may not have more than two machines. I used to have more listed. But...

I found it particularly offputting that I would have people PM me and say stuff like, "Oh hey, I saw you had a _____, I've always wanted to play it, when can I come over to check it out?" And it was people who I had never heard of. When I would tell people that I didn't really have people over to play games unless I met them some other way, I literally had people pester and harass me about it.

Along with that, I was constantly getting price inquiries about my games. I don't just randomly sell games. Someone offering me $1600 for JP and telling me it's a really great deal and probably far more than I paid is a waste of my time.

Between the two things above, when I initially had my collection listed, I probably got an inquiry a week about either selling or 'stopping by' to play. It was annoying.

I also find it perversely fun that people totally look down at me for having two machines. Go into a thread about how a game plays or whatever, give your opinion with two machines listed, and you'll get dismissed surprisingly quickly. I don't discount people who only have a machine or two's opinions, so the people that do to me for listing two just make me know they are people I'd rather not deal with.

I am one of the people right now that essentially has a warehouse 'hoarde' of machines, but those that know me know that there is a plan to bring them out of storage and have them set up in a much more social way in the hopefully not too distant future. I have cut new buys to almost nothing, and have the plan once I get the new place to repair / sell whatever doesn't fit right.

Sounds a lot like the plan that i had years ago, but then things have changed
and i am now in the serious downsizing mode,
while still trying to keep the collection together as a whole.

One of the issues of collecting 'big' is that the initial buzz becomes a burden. We all love the feeling of chasing a game, adding to the collection, finding a rare game but then it wears off. So, we need to buy another game.

After a while owning too many games becomes a burden as it is not possible to play them all, restore them, and enjoy them. So, many big collections just languish in warehouses as it just becomes too difficult to sort them out.

And if you add hoarding to the equation, it is very difficult to let go of the games due to emotional attachment.

So, I guess the most important issue is how much enjoyment a collection gives each one of us?

I just like playing them all buddy.

But I do know people who are all about the buzz of a deal. I used to do that for a living (buying/selling stuff) so less of a thrill for me. Been there, done that.

rd.

I love pinball but I hate storage. I don't think it makes sense to put pins in storage for any amount of time unless you are rotating them and only for a temporary stay in storage.

With as many pinballs as I have for public play I have a plethora of arcade games as well. I find it very difficult to even have many more "playable" pinballs than I do right now. (Playable as in fun)

I respect the EMs from the past but I grew up in the 80s/90s era, so anything pre 1980 is not really going to do it for me.

With that said and because I buy/sell a lot of stuff I don't see why people horde machines without purpose. My games earn money with all the day play and the community gets to play them. I would see no reason to horde them up because they need to be enjoyed by everyone.

Also, "quality" over quantity is another issue.

People can go out and get $150-200 projects. 200 more pins easy for junkers if I wanted, but there's no way it makes logical sense to do that, which is why my collection is the way it is and the quality of titles are what they are. The bottom line is I won't "buy" everything If I don't have it pinball wise.

Do I really want a Bugs Bunny Birthday pinball. No, not really.

I've always been sort of a librarian/curator and my console game collection is very extensive (over 17,000 different games, CIB collections of most US systems, etc) but I have always been a collector, just not a "hoarder", as most of those guys/gals have another issue altogether if the stuff sits and sits and they never sell anything.

Chad Keller had the nicest DMD 40+ collection I've ever seen. Mint mint stuff.

I'll also say this, "tricking out" an existing pin can be one thing but if I put a 15 karat diamond in the ramp does it make it more "tricked out" and valuable by default vs anyone else's game?

I still think value equates to the initial used value of said game in working condition. Projects are a whole other deal.

If someone has 300+ pins and they are all pre 1975 and they are sitting in the rafters that does not make them more valuable then good condition games post 1980 with less than a third of the total.

Value is a bit more important than quantity on stuff like this in my opinion because the pure space issue and non selling brings it to beyond hoarding status.

Now about the Pinball Hall of Fame...

You guys do realize everything Tim has is for donation, correct? He is a non profit and donates everything to the Salvation Army afterwards. Technically by doing that those assets should be forfeited as they are non profit status.

My guess is if something happens to him his wife can not profit off of anything that has has been claimed as non profit vs his personal stuff.

Personally I do not understand why anyone with this many games does not sell some and get them out, etc. That alone would help with more money for donations and not keeping the games buried away too.

He has videos as well but for years at the Classic Gaming Expo he had been soliciting donations for this Hall of Fame, so he could be surrounded by pinballs/games as non profit; heck even the building is paid for now.

Don't get me wrong, I love everything he is doing, he was very smart about it because of the tax issue, but I won't do a non profit even though I am "for the community" technically.

These are my games and I spend money on the stuff from customers that come into the store. I just put the money all back into the business, and I am sure Tim does the same thing with pinballs (or else he would not order new Sterns here and there, etc) but when I retire or when my kid goes to college I want to make sure I can sell MY stuff and not forfeit it as well.

So whats the secret here. Cause I only have 6 pins and my wife wants to kick me out.

Open a store or two or three. That is what I did.

How much do you love your wife?

I think the secret is "growing a Pair".

I would be shocked if anybody's exceeds Tim Arnold's. And he's not private about it either (thankfully, so we can all play them!)

Where do old pins go when they die?
They don't go where steel balls fly
They just sit in Tim's shed and fry
Savin up til the fourth of July

wow this thread got dark fast... I agree pins in storage are a sad state... but sometimes it's inescapable...

as far as PHOF, I went when I was in Vegas, and while I appreciate it, it was kind of depressing... most of the machines were barely functional, a lot had no audio... some were leaning so hard to one side they were essentially unplayable... the led jobs were terrible (and I LED all my machines)... most were really worn, even brand new sterns looked terrible... dunno, just everything about it was... sad

Most of his games are in stacks and in a hangar I think. So actually they "are" private just because of that.

Well, it's a non profit and he has no employees and it's all volunteer. So.......

When you're a wiz, not much else matters
wiz.jpeg

Probably just as bad as the people with all the Karma points on here.

Of course they are really worn.

They have been played constantly for 60 years.

The new guys in the hobby have been spoiled by all the restored games, with new clearcoated playfields and repainted cabs.

These games were only designed to last 3 years, then they went to the dump.

A popular game would be worn to the wood in less than 3 years, believe me.

-

Take your brand new Stern, put it up in a popular place (like the PHOF) for 12 hours a day of constant play @75 cents a play, and see how it looks in a few years.

Don't forget that Tim soldered in many of those LEDs by hand long before anyone started selling pinball LEDs commercially.

They were just "hyper white" LEDs that he was buying back in the day for 10 cents each in quantity 3000, no color matching or anything fancy like that.

Spot on Vid.

Man, I can't believe when people buy a game off me and want to remove all the Mylar off the playfield.

"Ummmm why do you think this Playfield is in such good condition after 30 years? And you want to remove the protection?"

The game has played mint for 30 years, why do you want to strip it down and change it? What's clear coat going to do? Some sort of mystical Jesus? Going to somehow make it better?

Some people sure have some funny ideas.

rd.

You funny too

George Thorogood represent.

rd.

maybe that wasn't the best word.. they were obviously unmaintained... I get a machine that is old is going to be physically worn but the rubbers on a lot of the machines looked like they were on their last legs, a lot of weak flippers etc... the machines just seemed in desperate need of attention...

additionally I have a tron on location that has >6k plays and it plays and looks just fine (I clean it monthly)

we have a T2 with >20k plays that plays fine and also looks fine

but they had an AC/DC LE or premium that at the time was fairly new and it looked like it was practically destroyed... the window to the under playfield was so worn you could not see through it etc

it's maintenance issues more than machine issues

I am just sharing my experience there, I am not trying to rip on the guy

and boy does it show

Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone else that used to route games back in the pinball heyday like I used to.

One nicked ball could wear down to bare wood within a week in a 24hour popular location.

a nicked ball would be a sign of non-maintenance... again a properly maintained machine should last

obviously one guy can't properly maintain that many machines, so it's a catch 22 I guess

anyway I just wanted to share my experience there since the thread was mentioning it, it's an opinion, nothing more, if it's unwelcome I'll gladly bow out

Unfortunately for collectors, it was usually the guys that bought the games second hand for cheap from route ops that didn't maintain them very well and routed them for the quick buck. They were probably what are called the pin flippers now. The route ops I knew and worked for in the 70's did maintain their games for maximum profit. They always had guys running around fixing and cleaning their stock, if they needed more guys, they hired them.

Steve

Pinball is tough to keep on location because people want everything to be perfect.

See, I grew up in Miami and I played pinball all over the place. I was happy we had pinball, and the majority of the time stuff was in good shape, but even today, the whole "LED" "weak flipper" thing, people have different ideas of maintaining the pins.

One person was mad the "right" flipper could not go up the main ramp on Addams Family every single time easily when he held it. That's a hard shot and you aren't meant to do that all the time, but people think THAT is a problem when anyone that plays Addams knows the left flipper goes up the ramp to loop it around. Flipper was far from weak but wow. That is "today's pinball."

I assume these games in Miami were at Arcade Odyssey (the Tron and T2), that seems to be the only place that has them now and not like it was back in the day when many places had pins.