I would order one if it was made...

If it had LEDs and some other modern improvements and was at or near the 5k mark NIB shipped I'd be in. I would not be in at 6k.

I think they would sell out of 500 at 5k NIB . . . the pin market has grown. Some people only want NIB, especially some of the new people to the hobby.

I'm in at $5,500! build it.

Holding onto my funds till I find out the VE release.

You'll never have a LOTR, then.

LOTR is actually one of the games i would never convert to LED. The original light give it that "fantasy magic feeling" so i hope they never would put in LED. I only have LED in my TF LE and for games like that they are perfect. Not for fantasy themes etc.

Holding off buying a LOTR, in the hope these get remade.

I hope they do, for those that want one, but honestly, you can find them in nice shape for under 5K,

Sure, you don't get the NIB experience, and maybe some upgrades if they remake them, but honestly, I think LOTR is better without LED's.

Chris

A lot of people won't touch the secondary market at all as they want game that is good to go out of the box and not in need of maintenance to work right (and a ten year old game will need maintenance, just the way it works). While there are some in reasonable condition available at or even a hair under 5k, those would sell to different people than those who would buy a NIB one in my opinion.

That makes sense. Although, NIB does not necessarily mean no issues, LOL.

Chris

$6k, no. Under $5k, yes. So I voted maybe.

Totally agree. NIB always means "plan on some dialing in". However, to people new to the hobby looking to populate their game room with their first or second pin, something brand new instead of ten years old gives the appearance of less maintenance.

Enjoy not having a LOTR then, lol

Srsly guys, it's not going to happen. If it does - I'm gonna have a big face!

As I recall, you also said IM would never happen. Not picking on you, just saying.

The truth is, we really don't know what is going to get the VE treatment. The only games that would sell 300 machines (which is my guess for around what they would need to sell to make a re-run worthwhile, though I'm sure they would prefer 500) are:

Sure hits for sales numbers:

1) LOTR
2) SM
3) Tron

Those are the only three sure hits in my view.

4) possibly TSPP
5) possibly POTC
6) possibly another IM run.

Long strech, but maybe:

7) FGY/Shrek

I thought licensing might be an issue since the movie was Paramount and since then the Marvel rights went to Disney. Clearly they got that sorted out. Now that we know "VE" is a thing, IM makes sense. They didn't make many, prices on used ones were climbing, and its cheap to make.

LOTR doesn't make sense. They made a ton, including an "LE". Prices are reasonable. It's on Whitestar. It's got a higher BOM than current Pro games, including IM.

The only way they'd remake LOTR is if it was reprogrammed to be on SAM or the next system...if they did that, they'd have to also recompose/remix the sound.

IMO too much effort for not enough demand...and if it was significantly superior to the LE edition, that's a "piss off the base" move.

If you want a LOTR, just get one...I'm sticking to my guns - you won't see a VE of it.

They don't care, in my opinion, about what upsets the base from four years ago. (I agree with you that isn't smart business, but they are more interested in cash in hand now vs. losing a potential LE customer they feel they will get anyway in a year).

When it comes to LE, Stern does care. It's a fragile but lucrative market. If they didn't care, we would have seen Tron Premium.

I'd be in for a complete plastics set

Id want to see what The Hobbit looks like from JJP before pulling the trigger on this...

My thoughts

We still might. Could be next, could be never. One thing we all agree on is Stern will have no trouble getting the rights to produce more Tron's from Disney.

An LED'd vault edition could easily come and with Eli's mod being so popular anyway why would Stern want to leave money on the table by having people buy the mod? I'm just speculating, I have no idea.

what was even on the LE for LOTR. the LE namesake was just kind of a throw in on that title more than any other LE they made. It had the backglass, did NOT have the figures and had the shaker (which is super easy to retrofit into the standards now. And what else, a mini-plaque?

Just upgrade LOTR to the SAM boardset, add LED's and the metal head/speaker grill (and no figures). If they add the metallic decals like the IMVE then it will probably look better than the LE. So leave those off and they are set.

I agree that they won't mess up what they have going on with the LE market.

Could not agree more. Much like Black Spider Man, the "LE model" of LOTRs was not a true LE by the standard of what we judge LE's to be today. It was just a model that was a good six years newer than the original run.

People who have an LE LOTRs may just be unhappy by more being made period, not unhappy about it having more features . . . at least not justifiably unhappy anyway.

There is one example in reasonable driving range of me . . . it was routed, seller would not let it go for less than 4.5k and right now he isn't willing to let it go at all. I do not think 4.5k is a reasonable price for a routed version of a ten year old Stern on the old system.

Not sure that this is as easy as it sounds.

Oh, well - we're all just speculating. Gentlemen's bet, I suppose. I say it won't happen. I think Stern made the "more VE's in the future" comment to cover their butts, so no one gets all crybaby about more Pro units being re-run down the road.

This is totally right.

I'll get one, just prefer a new one. The ones over here around the 5k mark are trashed.

I got one from Game Exchange not long ago. Those are still out there, but they are LE sets, so the holes for the characters aren't pre drilled. Just a heads up

Chris

5k, Im in...

The same deal for Australia and Europe (from what I hear). There are a number of hobbyists here that want a Lord of the Rings, but they don't pop up too often on the secondhand market. I think The Simpsons Pinball Party is another title that would do well if it was released as a Vault Edition. A lot of sited machines around the country, but good luck buying one in reasonable condition. These titles do seem like a long shot in Stern re-making them, but never say never.

As a side note, I had to travel 5 hours to play TSPP and I'd definitely pull the trigger on new in box when current ebay prices are crazy for these used Stern machines at the moment.

Cheers!
Adam.

Pinball is an addictive hobby, there is no denying that. I do not have any insight or contacts on the inside, but I honesty could see Stern running a LOTR again.
I think with the delays of the smaller boutique pin makers and the impatience of some (myself included) in this hobby, Stern would have no trouble selling re-runs of their "hit" machines. I don't know if licensing becomes a factor, but I know of many people that would love a NIB LOTR if they could get their hands on one. Also, with the release of the third Hobbit movie, that might be a great time to put them out, just as interest is peaked in middle earth again. If Stern can reproduce for 5k NIB, that sure beats the 8K+ that JJP will command for their machine.

LOTR would be a good seller at $5k, but if they jacked it to 5.5k they'd be met with a lot less interest. I know at 5k I'd probably be in. It basically can't be more expensive than what a HUO one costs today or it won't fly.

Not necessarily true. Buyers for NIB games aren't always people who pay attention to the hobby side of things or used market. Apparently the demand for the new AC/DC Pros is huge...those buyers don't seem to care about used AC/DC PRo prices.

How much was LOTR LE when it came out? I think it was $5k or so. Used regular LOTRs were ~$3600 at the time. Aside from the bling, it was the same game. They still sold 500 of 'em. Enough people "just wanted a new one".

Looks like LOTR LE was right around $5,000, so hopefully they could hit near that price point again.

I guess all I was saying is that if you wanted to sell a quick big run like IM, $5k will do it. If you want them to sit around for a quite a while, $5.5k will probably do it. Those LOTR LE's sat around forever (in fact I thought one person mentioned that they didn't even make the whole 500, just 250).

It was supposed to be a run of 1,000 and they made 500 I believe.

And they wouldn't sit sound forever now...they would fly if another 500 were made.

I doubt seriously that Stern will use non-LEDs in any new manufactured games. LEDs are simply superior in almost every way and require less energy and less maintenance.

Its a bit harder to switch back and forth in production with different bulb types and LEDs required less expensive electronics and power supply in general.

Agreed. Stern has said all games will have LEDs moving forward.

The biggest thing, extra cleared PF's - ever so important with well played sterns IMO.

I also agree that LOTR won't be remade, too many out there. Tron prem or VE with some small extras over even the LE, again IMO, is the most lucrative option for them right now.

After MMR, I fear the days of sub-$5000 pins are gone. $5,000-$6000 will probably be the new norm.
Stern probably makes a new pin for about $2100, sells it to distributors for $4100 and distributor sells to you for $5499.

The remakes cost much less to produce with licensing taking a decent chunk. There is much less backend expenses, R&D, testing, etc so their cost of making the machine perhaps drops to $1700.

These numbers are just guesses, probably no one knows for sure. But LOTR VE makes sense because the cost of production is lower and it would be wildly popular.

Just wanted to bump this thread in case anyone hasn't voted.

I believe Stern does look at these polls, I am not sure if it's even possible since it's on the old system, I think people are more interested if it was on a SAM or Spike system needless to say.

I'd stress that it's price dependent, meaning it would have to be in the $5000 to $5800 price range for me.

I think Stern missed the boat a bit on this one.

Queuing up a LOTR VE release when the latest Hobbit movie hit the theatres would have been some extra lift.

Especially with JJP failing to make their promise of "contractual oblingation for release coinciding with the movie"

Having said that, its still a GREAT Stern title and will probably still have plenty of demand into the future, just thought the new movie would increase its relevance.

Lets run the numbers on that...

Sale Price to Distributors = $4,100
Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) = $2,100
Gross Profit = $4,100 - $2,100 = $2,000
Gross Profit Margin = $2,000/$4,100 = 49%

I doubt that any manufacturer of pinball machines can achieve a 49% gross margin (including Stern, even with their relative economies of scale due to their large manufacturing plant, aka "The Beast").

Gross margins vary drastically from business to business and from industry to industry. Gross margins for the airline industry can be as low as 5%, and gross margins for the software industry can be as high as 90%. The average gross margin for manufacturing companies varies between 25% and 35%. However, items with more expensive price tags, such as motor homes, automobiles, and even houses, have margins of only 10% to 15%. Trying to increase gross margins with high dollar items can result in diminished sales, since the item has been priced beyond the buyer's comfort zone.

Based upon the above, I suspect that Stern's gross margin is no higher than 25%, and probably closer to 18% to 22%. The gross margins for Vault Editions is probably higher than that, but I still doubt it is anywhere close to 49%.

Just a heads-up in case anyone hasn't realized it yet: there is NO WAY that a LOTR VE will come with a set of the original figurines. There's a reason why the LE didn't either--because those were off-the-shelf items that were part of the Armies of Middle Earth collection, and they had long been discontinued by the time the LE was released. They've been discontinued even longer now, of course.

wondering, do they have to buy the licence again? i guess yes.
maybe too expensive to make a profit from only 200-300 VE version.

Didn't they have this same issue with Iron Man VE and solve it by recasting the toys (with some slight differences i.e. no joints)? The licensing issues are probably different depending on the toy manufacturer, but it seems at least possible that they'd be able to work it out.

And if not, F it, modders will have fun figuring out alternatives and I'd trade better sounds and playfield print quality for figurines any day!

In like Flynn!