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(Topic ID: 171067)

Who else is feeling fed up with pricing and average games?


By jgentry

4 years ago



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  • 49 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by OLDPINGUY
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23
#1 4 years ago

Who else feels like pinball manufactures are giving us less and asking for more? I'm normally excited for game reveals but I honestly could care less about any of them this week. We have what stern has priced as their masterpiece which is nothing more then a Dark Knight reskin with some tweaks. Apparently not designing a new game is more expensive then designing one. Possibly the most bloated over priced game ever made. We have a strange "Dialed In" which may end up being a good game but is certainly an odd choice that turns me off and is way over priced at 9K. Alien looks OK if it can be delivered at the original price point. Apparently Aerosmith is next for stern which is another big miss.

I got my GB premium this week, paid for it in March. Another price increase and a longer wait for the game then ever. I have played it 5 times so far. I have to say that I have never played a game with as many air balls and just overall design flaws as this game has. My initial feeling is that I F'ing hate this game. Shots are not smooth, code is not intuitive, balls jump the inlanes, left ramp creates crazy airballs, etc. Last night while watching the JJP feed I looked up at GB and thought "You could be a Centaur and a Congo you piece of shit". Then I saw the sheet pulled off the new game and all I could think was I play pinball to get away from that crap, why is there a phone ringing constantly?

My hard cap is 8K for any NIB game and it is going to have to offer a lot more going forward then what is currently coming out. I would guess by 2017 that will only leave stern pro's and Spooky games in that range. I can't help but look at my WH20 and think how it shoots like butter and then look at GB and think what the hell happened. Until someone can deliver a game that shoots smooth, has fun shots, good code, a complete sound package, etc they won't get my money ever again. There's enough early ss games and good DmD games for half the price to keep me busy for the rest of my life. I can have just as much fun on EBD, Fathom, Flash Gordon, WH2O, TS, etc for much cheaper. So why are any of us spending 10K on a game? Can you get 7K more in fun out of it then you can a 3K game? I certainly cannot.

Now everyone get the F off my lawn!!!!!!!!!!!!

#2 4 years ago

My first inkling of price annoyance came with Stern's "hard floor" on distributor prices to the public. Next came another round of price increases.

These most recent prices are edging a ton of motivated buyers out of the picture.

Anyhow... earlier this AM I started a poll to see what people's price ceiling is.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-your-nib-price-level

#3 4 years ago

Your loss is my gain. How much for Ghostbusters?

Seriously, I don't like the new higher prices. I'll probably just wait them out and buy used. Sorry to hear your frustrations. I would really like a Ghostbusters. I cancelled my premium order due to issues. I'm likely a used pro buyer.

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Your loss is my gain. How much for Ghostbusters?
Seriously, I don't like the new higher prices. I'll probably just wait them out and buy used. Sorry to hear your frustrations. I would really like a Ghostbusters. I cancelled my premium order due to issues. I'm likely a used pro buyer.

$6500, come and get it. No ghosting, just plenty of poorly designed shots.

#5 4 years ago

It's probably a good thing your going on vacation soon. I have a plan that will solve all your problems.

1. When you're in Hawaii, find a nice place to buy with a large guest room for us.
2. I'll keep your games minty fresh and you can play them when you come to the mainland.
3. Become a UT fan.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

It's probably a good thing your going on vacation soon. I have a plan that will solve all your problems.
1. When you're in Hawaii, find a nice place to buy with a large guest room for us.
2. I'll keep you're games minty fresh and you can play them when you come to the mainland.
3. Become a UT fan.

1. I'm just going to stay there in a tent. I'll spear fish until all of the tuna are gone, that last one is going to taste delicious.
2. Come on over, I'll give you the UT fan price increase on all of them.
3. I'm trying to decide between this and eating a bag of dicks.

12
#7 4 years ago

Supposedly BM66LE is sold out at basically 10k and all 80 of the SLE's are sold out at 15k... who's fault is this? I just can't blame the manufacturer at this point.

#8 4 years ago

Then don't buy NIB
As you say, lots of old games out there, lots of life still in them

Collect what you enjoy playing

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Supposedly BM66LE is sold out at basically 10k and all 80 of the SLE's are sold out at 15k... who's fault is this? I just can't blame the manufacturer at this point.

I put the blame solely on you Teekee. You told us all to send money now, now you tell us it's our fault

People can buy what they want I guess, I'm not even going to pretend to understand it though. I have a friend that just got in on a BMLE because it liked what he sees. I told him I'm working on a pin in my garage called "Money Grab" and a 20K deposit will secure the LE #1. I haven't gotten a payment yet though. Still got my fingers crossed it will show up.

#10 4 years ago

I want shittier games at higher price.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

Then don't buy NIB
As you say, lots of old games out there, lots of life still in them
Collect what you enjoy playing

That's the plan going forward. I would still like to piss and moan about it though.

#12 4 years ago

The other problem with these insane price increases is that it increases prices on the secondary market as well. I would expect a $1k-$2k increase across the board on older games (similar to what we've already seen in the last 4 years).

Those $10k Tron LEs are going to seem like a bargain soon!

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

That's the plan going forward. I would still like to piss and moan about it though.

I picked up an EM a month ago, I've had more fun with this game than many other games I own
I am enjoying simply bashing the ball around, hitting the targets
Modern games are too much like hard work

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Supposedly BM66LE is sold out at basically 10k and all 80 of the SLE's are sold out at 15k... who's fault is this? I just can't blame the manufacturer at this point.

I thought it was 30 SLE? I gues it stands for Super Limited (to how many we can sell) Edition.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I put the blame solely on you Teekee. You told us all to send money now, now you tell us it's our fault

Its a crazy hobby that has gotten _____________ (please fill in the blank) I don't understand it but something will give sooner or later... probably sooner!

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I thought it was 30 SLE? I gues it stands for Super Limited (to how many we can sell) Edition.

It was but now 50 more were added... and 50 more dove in...

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I thought it was 30 SLE? I gues it stands for Super Limited (to how many we can sell) Edition.

They very quietly increased it to 80 when they saw the demand. They are claiming its 30 years of stern and 50 years of batman or some other nonsense to justify it.

Rumor is that all SLE buyers get a WWELE to help justify the price increase.

#18 4 years ago

I never paid money to any of the current PB manufacturers, but the pricing is funny.

#19 4 years ago

Supply in demand is what its all about do i like it hell no the consumer is what drives the price

#20 4 years ago

The only NIB pin I could realistically see myself buying is Medieval Madness remake. For the price of a new pin I could get two just as good for the same price or cheaper.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

The only NIB pin I could realistically see myself buying is Medieval Madness remake. For the price of a new pin I could get two just as good for the same price or cheaper.

18 months ago we all thought the remakes were crazy priced, stern, JJP, and Dutch are starting to make them seem like a bargain.

#22 4 years ago

I frequent a Disneyland forum.

Everyone is always complaining about price increases at Disneyland and how they won't be able to go anymore.

Meanwhile they keep selling out the park and making millions of dollars.

Seems like the same sort of complaining exists here.

People desire something. That thing becomes too expensive for them. They vent their frustrations on some random website.

Meanwhile manufacturers keep on selling games and making more money.

In both situations the marketplace is working perfectly. Pinball prices will adjust when manufacturers aren't making the profits they need.

Have we reached the point where the marketplace rejects the pricing/product and manufacturers have to respond? Only time will tell. Obviously they've been doing okay selling ever more expensive games over the past few years.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

I frequent a Disneyland forum.
Everyone is always complaining about price increases at Disneyland and how they won't be able to go anymore.
Meanwhile they keep selling out the park and making millions of dollars.
Seems like the same sort of complaining exists here.
People desire something. That thing becomes too expensive for them. They vent their frustrations on some random website.
Meanwhile manufacturers keep on selling games and making more money.
In both situations the marketplace is working perfectly. Pinball prices will adjust when manufacturers aren't making the profits they need.
Have we reached the point where the marketplace rejects the pricing/product and manufacturers have to respond? Only time will tell. Obviously they've been doing okay selling ever more expensive games over the past few years.

I'm sure there are some definite similarities. In my case I wouldn't say that I particularly desire their product at all anymore. I can afford them, I just don't think they are worth the price increase and see no value in the purchase anymore. Add in the constant QC issues and it seems like you are not getting more for your money. Disney at least seems to constantly invest back in to making it bigger and better.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Who else feels like pinball manufactures are giving us less and asking for more? I'm normally excited for game reveals but I honestly could care less about any of them this week. We have what stern has priced as their masterpiece which is nothing more then a Dark Knight reskin with some tweaks. Apparently not designing a new game is more expensive then designing one. Possibly the most bloated over priced game ever made. We have a strange "Dialed In" which may end up being a good game but is certainly an odd choice that turns me off and is way over priced at 9K. Alien looks OK if it can be delivered at the original price point. Apparently Aerosmith is next for stern which is another big miss.
I got my GB premium this week, paid for it in March. Another price increase and a longer wait for the game then ever. I have played it 5 times so far. I have to say that I have never played a game with as many air balls and just overall design flaws as this game has. My initial feeling is that I F'ing hate this game. Shots are not smooth, code is not intuitive, balls jump the inlanes, left ramp creates crazy airballs, etc. Last night while watching the JJP feed I looked up at GB and thought "You could be a Centaur and a Congo you piece of shit". Then I saw the sheet pulled off the new game and all I could think was I play pinball to get away from that crap, why is there a phone ringing constantly?
My hard cap is 8K for any NIB game and it is going to have to offer a lot more going forward then what is currently coming out. I would guess by 2017 that will only leave stern pro's and Spooky games in that range. I can't help but look at my WH20 and think how it shoots like butter and then look at GB and think what the hell happened. Until someone can deliver a game that shoots smooth, has fun shots, good code, a complete sound package, etc they won't get my money ever again. There's enough early ss games and good DmD games for half the price to keep me busy for the rest of my life. I can have just as much fun on EBD, Fathom, Flash Gordon, WH2O, TS, etc for much cheaper. So why are any of us spending 10K on a game? Can you get 7K more in fun out of it then you can a 3K game? I certainly cannot.
Now everyone get the F off my lawn!!!!!!!!!!!!

mad-as-hell-howard-beal1-network-credit-soshable-posted-MastheadBlog-MHProNews-com- (resized).jpg

#25 4 years ago

If it's priced right, it will sell.

10
#26 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

If it's priced right, it will sell.

Apparently if it's priced insanely stupidly, it still sells.

#27 4 years ago

I think the pricing is shifting to reflect what the market will sustain (even if its short term). I think we are all frustrated because we are being priced out of hobby that we used to be able to afford/justify and now the target market is the wealthy who can afford to preorder every new game because to them $10K looks like $1k compared to others view on disposable income. When your new vette is 100K a 10K pin probably isn't that big of a deal. Congrats to those who can afford it, but for the rest of us we are getting pushed out of both the NIB and secondary market by these ever climbing prices. Will it ever come back k down? Yep just wait till the "cool factor" wears off and the next must have fad comes around and everyone switchs to that hobby. Ive seen it with muscle cars, and choppers. Its all a cycle of whats popular at the time.

#28 4 years ago

For 8/9k, I better be getting a pretty magical machine. So far, they don't look like 8/9k machines to me.

#29 4 years ago

I think they passed my limit at $8000. I am glad I got in on Hobbit at the earlier pricing.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Supposedly BM66LE is sold out at basically 10k and all 80 of the SLE's are sold out at 15k... who's fault is this? I just can't blame the manufacturer at this point.

I don't believe them when they say all 80 SLEs are sold out....this is all marketing hype to sell them out. I bet we'll see a couple pop up for sale NIB right here.

#31 4 years ago

A couple! I bet 2/3 of them remain boxed to be sold in aftermarket!!

#32 4 years ago

If a new company could come up with a good pin for 5k they would do well.

#33 4 years ago

Yep wait until the next pro model sells for over $5K. Ghostbusters was right at $5k shipped. I'm out on buying anything new. Used market is where I'll be.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

A couple! I bet 2/3 of them remain boxed to be sold in aftermarket!!

Damn straight, and I wish them well...10K by Xmas.

PS: They've played this tactic before..remember TWD LE was not selling out and they came out and said no Premium, when the LE sold then they announced the premium.

#35 4 years ago

All you manufactures with your over priced Ave games can go Screw yourself, You ain't getting my dosh with your NIB below par quality crap your serve up, cant understand buyers lining up & throwing cash at these latest Sub quality Un seen/proven games,
I'm happy to stick what Ive got & if I'm lucky I'll pick up a few cheapies along the way so be it.

#36 4 years ago

The issue is JJP or Stern could offer an 'Extra Super Ludicrous Ultimate Limited Edition' for 16K and people would still be lining up saying "take my money". It would be a sell out.

#37 4 years ago

Quoted from PinSinner:

The issue is JJP and Stern could offer a 'Extra Super Ludicrous Ultimate Limited Edition' for 16K and people would still be lining up saying "take my money". It would be a sell out.

That's exactly why I think there eventually be an extra trim level created with even fewer quantities. Say 10 Ultra Limited Edition Star Wars at $25k. Will be interesting to watch!

#38 4 years ago

I'm fed up with the high prices of average food.

Still I do get fed.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

That's exactly why I think there eventually be an extra trim level created with even fewer quantities. Say 10 Ultra Limited Edition Star Wars at $25k. Will be interesting to watch!

I will have 2 plaques and a special powder coat coin door. No, it will have 2 coin doors

#41 4 years ago

Well, i dont even care about never games since i know i will never be able to afford such loads of cash just for a pinball.

Maybe some 20 years from now when maybe you can find "barn-find" Ghostbusters for 300

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Well, i dont even care about never games since i know i will never be able to afford such loads of cash just for a pinball.
Maybe some 20 years from now when maybe you can find "barn-find" Ghostbusters for 300

You might want to start your search in my barn. That's were I feeling like putting GB at the moment.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

That's exactly why I think there eventually be an extra trim level created with even fewer quantities. Say 10 Ultra Limited Edition Star Wars at $25k. Will be interesting to watch!

It truely is a frightening thought.

I understand there are a number of pinball camps. There are the those that just want a good fun game to play. They are content with the cheaper (if you can call it that) Pro's. Then there are others with a little more disposable income and are happy to purchase the Premiums. Unfortunately there is a segment of the hobby that purchase these limited editions in the hope that they will become rare to find and become valuable collectors items. I get the appeal, and if I had money to burn, I would be one of those buyers. However I think JJP and Stern et al. are taking this idea and getting carried away.

There have and always will be collectors in any hobby. Take cars for instance. Their has always been marquee sports cars, but likewise, there has always been a lower budget options that appeal to all enthusiasts. It seems that in regards to pinball, I can't help but feel like the budget options are being fazed out by the big two. JJP and Stern seem to be edging up prices and testing the market to see if we are willing to pay these higher prices.

So far they must be rubbing their hands together, sipping wine and giggling to the cows come home!

#44 4 years ago

Don't worry, soon Stern and JJP will push too far, the ultra-rich will stop caring, and the two companies will have no choice but to bring their craptastic over-priced games back to earth.

Just a matter of time. Hopefully, this community will stand strong and be able to actually keep their wallets in place.

#45 4 years ago

So after about 3 hrs of work I have gotten GB at least playing correctly. Slimmer needed adjusting, 4 switches were not registering, right ramp could not be made, ball would go halfway up and stop, one target was not registering hits, plunger and auto plunge were hitting stay puff and not making the orbit. Still getting a pile of air balls and balls jumping over the ball guides but at least everything works now. Going to update the code and try to take a fresh look at playing it.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

So after about 3 hrs of work I have gotten GB at least playing correctly. Slimmer needed adjusting, 4 switches were not registering, right ramp could not be made, ball would go halfway up and stop, one target was not registering hits, plunger and auto plunge were hitting stay puff and not making the orbit. Still getting a pile of air balls and balls jumping over the ball guides but at least everything works now. Going to update the code and try to take a fresh look at playing it.

Try hitting some shots or drinking more beer. You sound like a victim of using water as a beverage.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

Try hitting some shots or drinking more beer. You sound like a victim of using water as a beverage.

People use water as a beverage?

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

People use water as a beverage?

I know, it's weird.

#49 4 years ago

No one likes higher prices...we consume.
Don't buy, prices drop.
Don't buy enough, no new games.

But this industry is unique.
It is Tiny, compared to Disney, cars,
and everything else.
BOMs, expenses, are tracked, and
The volume of sales is relatively known.

No manufacturer of pins believed
they will sell 10,000 pins even at 5k.
Its how they keep their doors open while
The customers shout, New, innovative,
perfect, protected, fits everyone's taste....

I can't think of any other product to compare it to.

Gas has never been proportional to crude
Diamonds are Rocks, yet they go up because
of a monopoly, and the rich are viewed
as a bottomless pit.
But a pin manufacturer is happy to sell
3000 games at $10k over 6000 games at 5k.
and 3000 wealthy people in the globe isn't hard
to find.

Wait for the next Stern pro, for 5k
Pricing. It isn't coming from anyone else.
Let's hope that doesn't disappear.
Vote with your wallet, if you don't want to pay, don't but.
But their isn't any manufacturer that
isn't aware of the price complaints,
they simply can't do it in the way the market is.

Simpler Game, Spiderman, home.
Looked great for what might be under
4K NIB, Pro 5k ish, premium, 6k ish.
Not every company can do this.

Homespun is trying, by building in China.

In regard to QC, I know understand more
of why this is true at Stern, after taking the tour.

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