What other competition? JJP? Because if that's who you're referring to, I beg to differ. WOZ is an outstanding game in my opinion, but it's barely related to the newer high speed pins that Stern puts out. I'm not bashing WOZ at all. I finally played it last night and was very impressed. Having said that, it's a whole different experience when compared to ACDC, or Spider-Man for example.

Don't get me wrong: I'd like to see a Stern video of StarTrek too as I have an LE on order, but the truth is that right now, if any of us decide against StarTrek, it's highly unlikely that we'll decide to buy a WOZ instead.
Of course we're due to see a number of current project updates come Expo.

Just to be fair to Stern, that was not the policy that was in place. From what I was given, 2k was required to hold the game. The rest was due upon shipment of the game. And that was from a distributor, not from Stern.

First time I'm not even considering the LE because of price mainly (higher # of units makes me not want one either), and I'm an LE buyer typically. On top of that, I LOVE the Star Trek theme. Just not enough to dish out the extra cash on this one.

Spider-man is 20 + optional shaker. You could only count it as 21 on BSM.

TRS is a bit trickier. The manual page you show is for the LE version of the game, which adds 2 magnets and 3 up-posts. The shaker is also optional on the Pro. So if we take those off, we're down to 14. The Mick mechanism counts as two drives, one for left motion and one for right motion, but since it's only one motor I only counted that as a single item (and did for BDK's crane as well). Down to 13. Then, the up-post for the ball lock requires 2 drives, one to shove the pins up and one to lock the pins in place, and I'd only counted that as one feature, but I noticed in my Avatar calculations (which use the same mech) I did count it as 2 there, so I suppose we could boost TRS Pro to a count of 13.

That's right 2K now the rest due right before shipping but that 2K is non refundable so you have bought it or loose 2K.

Just cancelled my LE order. Price is a factor. Didn't like the lack of clear information either. Why does the Pinball community have to try to act like Sherlock Holmes and sleuth their way to figuring out the features?

Yes, the 2k was non refundable. But that's not the same as full payment effective immediately to hold your spot in line. And Im not sure whether that came from Stern directly, or was just the distributor's policy. And I also have no idea if the marketing department was involved whatsoever either. Which is what my initial post was about. And what I thought was funny.

No, tight 2k!!!

Noticed that too, what a joke, but kind of funny Sounds like they are getting a little defensive.......

Seriously?......I guarantee you Stern views JJP as "competition", a huge one at that! Enjoy your ST but you are flat out wrong and I'm not "begging to differ"

It was funny! I was just bummed because I like the theme so much, but not the way the marketing department is running this release or the pricing. Oh well...they will show up used further on down the road as long as they all don't go to the Jersey shore, New Orleans, the mountains in Colorado or a Costa Riveria cruise ship. Hopefully nobody will never have to experience more disasters like those.
And yes...I also prefer the speed of my Stern games over WOZ. But shes a beauty despite being a wide body and they are starting to give her some brains now so I'll give her some love.

Well JJP is obviously taking some pin dollars away from Stern so yes, I can't fully disagree with you but...
It's not like Stern is under any pressure to provide photos or videos of their upcoming release.
Now if JJP has another pin coming out that was an option for StarTrek buyers, that would be a different story. That's the context here.

As I said before, WOZ blows away my ACDC as far as the light show goes, but it doesn't hold a candle to it as far as adrenaline-pumping action is concerned. I doubt that Stern is overly threatened by JJP at the moment. -Though this time around, the new lights on ST may be in reaction to WOZ. If so, I'm appreciative of the competition!

I hear ya, but based on comments there were dollars diverted to Hobbit due to the price increase, I'll have both Woz and Ac/dc in my house in the next week or so and both are different pins, I know Ac/dc is a blast, we'll see about Woz....

And JJ has said recently that they too will be producing 2-3 pins per year and I would guess that as Hobbit comes out next fall they will be primed and ready to go with pin #3 in early spring of the following year......

I don't doubt that Stern IS "concerned", they should be, the latest miss of not including an Lcd on Star Trek and still no stereo sound and higher price point ain't gonna help, I'll take both options along with Jpop, but Stern is gonna have to raise the quality/feature bar a whole lot for the $$$ If you are any kind of a businessman and dismiss a competitor that just sold 2000 pins and is only going to get better, well that would be pretty stupid, and they are not that....

And I GUARANTEE you, the idea of not releasing video has cost them a ton of sales and that little strategy will change in the future....

I cancelled my pre-order, and got a deposit refund yesterday. I don't see the urgency on this title given the price/quantity increase. I might get a secondary market premium down the road after the software is complete. I really like my METLE, but have a hard time getting into it with incomplete code.

The only effective way I can show Stern that I am not happy with his business practices is not give him my money. Too bad I was looking forward to this one.

this will only happen once we hear of new teams working at JJP. So far there is only the 1.

The whole Stern vs JJP thing reminds me of this old ad (blonde is IM, brunette is WOZ). Skip to 0:28...

#t=28

Just repeating what JJ has said, I'm sure they are gaining efficiencies every day in the production process and rounds 2 and 3 will be a whole lot smoother and better and will have plenty of time and $$$ to add the new teams......

Heck said he would give Stern a pass on non having the Lcd in Star Trek due to the extreme difficulty in creating an entire new gaming experience inside of the pinball machine and suggested that is why its taken so long to program with Keith and crew....

Much of the software written will be able to plug and play into future pins from what I understand in reading....

Really? Do you only buy LEs because of the rarity? Not trying to give you a hard time just wondering how producing 800 units have stopped you from buying a potentially great game?

In all fairness, JJP has WOZ available. For Stern, this is StarTreks only competition. The Hobbit won't be here for well over a year, right? That's 2-3 Stern pins away.
I would say at the moment, Sterns only competition is their next pin.

In all fairness though, the premium is the exact same game.....so you spend the extra money on an LE because of rarity then....right? Or you simply like the colors better might be another reason.

Another reason people are holding off is because of rarity (or lack of) many anticipate this title being available for quite some time, possibly even the value staying where it is or dropping as they remain available, obviously just speculation but a consideration with 799 units

People keep saying this, but I will just put this out there: of three distributors that I know, one of them (a large and well known one) has 2 left, another one had 4 left as of yesterday, and another one has about 8 left. Two of those three distributors are large ones. So they are still out there a week later, but it's not like there are a ton of them left based on what those three distributors have told me. FWIW.

I think you might be missing the point a bit, with the increased production and huge price increase a lot of people are closing their wallets to the new Le "strategy".....that said, they may sell every single one at top dollar up front, we'll see where they end up 6 months from now, there will be plenty available.....

So people can start moving $$$ to the Hobbit payment schedule, Ben Heck's Ghost Squad, Skit B's Predator, Jpop's next pin (yes I know, Magic Girl and Raza are still due) and Spooky's Zombie pin.......Stern has plenty of competition and its not just their "next pin" as a lot of people may be skipping "this pin" and the "next pin", at least at the Le level, who knows, consumers are very fickle when given choices.......

I understand what you're saying, and in a sense you're right. To me, however, they have competition on two fronts: (1) money already going to JJP for WOZ or directed toward purchasing The Hobbit, and (2) the vast used market. I have been contemplating buying a ST premium (eventually, based on firsthand experience), but I must say that it gives me serious pause to realize that I could buy an excellent TZ, for example, for less. Classic pins that used to seem out of reach now look reasonable by comparison. I can't imagine spending $12k on a MM, but if I am willing to spend $8k on a ST-LE, it starts sounding almost sensible. It also makes the cost of professionally restoring classic pins begin to seem like a fair investment. I have to think that these new price points will influence the "ecology" of the whole market, although I cannot pretend to predict just how.

I think your argument is completely valid... Once any of those other pins are released.

Lol that's a good one

Oh, you're not joking are you?

Funny! But... its more like this:

Well took it off I forgot there was a ton of cursing in the video. Look it up on youtube: Apple Iphone 4 vs HTC Evo.

IPhone is Stern, HTC is JJP

btw... I love Stern I just thought this was a funny comparison.

Cheers

No, you didn't read what I said.. I don't like the price increase, first and foremost. There is less incentive to jump on a title with a hefty price tag over what previous models were selling for. The greater numbers means there will be more out there/available, and as such easier to pick up later if I really feel like I need the LE.

For the record, I bought a LOTR LE, and god knows there are more LOTR pins out there than just about any other Stern title, so it certainly wasn't for the rarity of the game, I just liked the title- and unlike Star Trek LE, was reasonably priced at the time I was interested in buying.

On this title I'm going to wait and see how the game plays, if there are any significant problems like there has been on so many title releases, and most importantly- Is Stern giving us code on this $8K machine?

I can see how the rarity is why some buy the LEs. Some people just like to buy a game for collect ability and that is just fine with me. For me personally, I'm buying the LE because I think the extras that come with it are worth it. Once I factored in the animated side armor along with the inside cabinet lights, the Lit speaker emblems, the steel speaker grill, the shaker, the beautiful backglass instead of a translite, I had to go for the LE. I just can't stand the looks of the premium either.

I'm not happy with the price but for personal reasons I've decided to not worry about that this time. Life is too short.

Yawn. Not feelin any sense of urgency this round. Stern: 0 Wallet: 1

Got it, yep I misread your post alright. Sorry about that.

Haha, yep, you got me you funny bastard! I think I walked right into that one, gotta watch it with the PW hanging around....

Just thinking that Metallica "sold out" day one and there was an unbelievable feeding frenzy, we all know the story, and a big chunk went overseas.......

And we later saw plenty of Met Le's popping as declining sales prices............

Now we have 799 units, an overseas market that is dead on arrival with ST, a much higher price and we won't see a ton of them popping up later? Guaranteed.......

And I think it will be great, just saying....

Khabbi,
Like you on this one. Many of us I have talked to are burning out on the price game. We have been loyal and buying every release despite code and hardware issues time after time and it just seems to have come to a boil.
My money is not going to JJp but not jumping out of my wallet for Stern either.

Touché! I personally am not mechanically inclined so I prefer newer pins but that's a valid point.
If you can get 2 pins instead of ST LE, that's also competition.

I was saving my pinfund for this one but I figured the feeding frenzy and flipper BS would happen like METLE and went ahead and bought a HUO Tron and Transformer's combo instead.
I figure in a year or two they will be on the HUO market and if they are still @ 8K+ I will live without one.
Nobody I know is getting one so if someone doesn't bring one to PAGG I probably won't ever get to play one.
It isn't like the end of the world and I don't have any other SR games to play.

Time to come down off that hill as I will be getting an LE. Also due for my WOZ to ship soon but I kinda think STLE will show up first. Anyway, hope to be inviting some of the locals overs to play.

Kevin

What am I, chopped liver?!!?

Have you disowned me Eric?!

Yeah, and Rob has one too. I'd invite you Rob, but we almost already have the same games

Oh yeah, you have MM

Agreed.

I am holding off until I know:

1. What the firing photon torpedoes thing is all about?
2. Is the projector awesome or a cheap gimmick?
3. More info on the lasers.
4. More info on the ship and what it does exactly.
5. Did they get the rights to use any musical themes?

I have a feeling it's going to be a great pin, but I've been burned before,

It's some LED lights that go off in order.

2. Is the projector awesome or a cheap gimmick?

What's your definition of "awesome" and "cheap gimmick"?

It's going to be some pinpoint lights shining on the playfield. If you expect more than that, you will be disappointed.

3. More info on the lasers.

See above.

4. More info on the ship and what it does exactly.

It moves, and crashes forward.

5. Did they get the rights to use any musical themes?

What do you mean musical themes? It's Star Trek, not a music pin.

I have a feeling it's going to be a great pin, but I've been burned before,

I know the feeling!

This list is futile. There should only be 1 thing on that list, and you don't even have it on there.

I am holding off until :

1. Until I play it

By the time these questions are answered they will all be sold out and you will either have to wait for the HUO market or get bent over by the flippers.
I didn't know you were getting one Rob, let me know when the box party is and I will be there.
I would have to get the LE if I get one, that collection of heads on the Pro Tlite is just fugly.

LOL, last week I was told my WOZ is showing up mid November. Last time it was July-August and the time before was May. I'm beginning to think that my game may not show up before Christmas. I would be willing to bet money that my ST LE will be at my house first.

That made me laugh a lot. I cancelled my pre-order too, i just could not justify $10,500.00. That, and the fact the layout looks really similar to the SM i already have.

Wow, seriously? I think it's the best of the three.

Hey Pappy, don't give up hope. If you ordered June or earlier 2011, we should all see our WOZ's before Santa Clause Comes....although, it might actually be delivered by him

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm surprised there's not more talk about this, but...I spoke with a reputable distributor about the large # of LEs being produced (799). He said, as of Monday, half of those are going overseas, whereas typically 1/3 LEs go overseas. That leaves 400 LEs (or 399 1/2) to the US market. Can anyone else confirm this?

Some of my favorite games (LoTR, FGY, xmen, avengers) were purchased before playing. Ironically, my least favorite owned games (SM, RBION) I played before purchasing. Ironic eh? For me; I think a lot of the fun in being a collector is jumping in and learning everything about the pin in the comfort of your own game room rather than in the wild.

I think the question that really needs to be asked is what will the voices be like and what do the animations look like....and, what will the code be like at release?

And how the ship works. And how the fire button works. And how the laser projection works.

Lots of questions Stern. Time to deliver a few answers.