(Topic ID: 50019)

whitewater upper flipper question -Got it, thanks :)

By yzfguy

10 years ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by embien
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 years ago

I just replaced all of my ramps on white water.holy cow does the game looks so much better now The gameplay is back to normal with one exception if I hit the ball with the upper flipper it sometimes launches it as high as hitting the sign with the two colored bulbs right there. 9 times out of 10 it works perfectly and the flipper has no slop to it, the upper playfield was installed and tightened down and the rubber looks fine on the flipper bat. I have had the game for a few years and never had this happen but cannot figure out what would cause it.
I was thinking maybe the upper playfield was at a weird angle but it is all tightened down snug.
I thought maybe someone may have had the same issue and might be able to steer me in the right direction. Thank you!

#2 10 years ago

That happens on mine sometimes too. What strength coil did you use? You might go to a weaker one to resolve, but that could lead to problems making the big ramp shot...

#3 10 years ago

I would guess that you may need to do some adjustment (IE....sanding) on the ramps to get the extremely tight tolerances on the ramps within spec so the PF sits right. WH2O is known to have to do some work to the ramps to get everything to fit together. Heck, I have not done a game yet using CPR replacements where I did not have to sand/grind down parts of the ramps to make them fit properly, and it should be expected, given how much thicker the plastic is.

#4 10 years ago

Guy, try raising the flipper rubber on the bat, just slightly above the indent on the bat. Wally

#5 10 years ago

That is just not right. I have a clearcoated mini and have never had the issue. The ramps are after the sign so shouldn't be an issue. Is your flipper bat correctly spaced from the playfield? Adjusting the flipper rubber higher on the bat may solve your issue but is not resolving what is causing the issue in the first place.

#6 10 years ago

thank you guys. Just to answer....I didnt touch the coil, the ball is going airborne right off the flipper bat, not after hitting the ramp entrance, and the flipper rubber is exactly where it was. I am going to try raising it, like suggested, just seems odd that none of these variables were changed, and in several years, I never had an airball up there.

#7 10 years ago

any chance the whole base plate is not evenly screwed down and you are making the flipper bat have an upswing rather than a swing parallel to the PF

#8 10 years ago

i will have to check that out.....I havent acthally checked the travel of the bat in slow mo I suppose it could have come loose while I had the mini playfield lifted. I sure hope that's not it, as I wouldnt want to take all that stuff apart again
actually, I will look when I get home....not sure what is accessible from underneath thru the access hole in there.....

#9 10 years ago

You didn't remove the flipper mech at all?

#10 10 years ago

No, didnt touch the flipper mech. I only unbolted and lifted the upper playfield a few inches to detach the whirlpool ramp.

#11 10 years ago

are you home? can you post a pic of your mini playfield?

#12 10 years ago

I wont be home till about 12:30 tonight but I will. here is a pic on my phone of the whole playfield when I was done. Not sure what you are looking for. And thanks for caring

IMG_20130507_114445_649.jpgIMG_20130507_114445_649.jpg

#13 10 years ago

While you're at it, try replacing the rubber on the flipper. maybe it has some wear on it.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

I wont be home till about 12:30 tonight but I will. here is a pic on my phone of the whole playfield when I was done. Not sure what you are looking for. And thanks for caring

Really trying to see if that upper flipper is sitting parallel to the playfield.

#15 10 years ago

Odd.....I just took off the glass, checked the flipper(which is level with playfield thru all of it's travel) and put the glass back on. I have played 10 games and the ball hasn't gone airborne once. I have no idea how it worked itself out, but I thank you guys for your help just the same....might be back if it re occurs

IMG_20130509_103346_892.jpgIMG_20130509_103346_892.jpg IMG_20130509_103353_686.jpgIMG_20130509_103353_686.jpg

#16 10 years ago

Sometimes a bat can have a fracture that makes airballs.

If you pull it out one day, flex it in all directions with the rubber off

#17 10 years ago

thank you, I would have never thought of that! I will check it out.

#18 10 years ago

Just thought I would post an update for anyone in the same boat.... This turns out to have been one of those coincidental things. It started happening again, and I was unable to consistently hit either top shot. I was assumimg that since I just replaced the ramps, it was something I had done.
I ordered a new upper flipper assembly and while changing it out, it was painfully obvious that the coil was binding something aweful. Swapped everything and game plays great again Just one of those things that was going to happen regardless of my ramp job!

#19 10 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Just thiught I would post an update for anyone in the same boat.... This turns out to have been one of those coincidental things. It started happening again, and I was unable to consistently hit either top shot. I was assumimg that since I just replaced the ramps, it was something I had done.
I ordered a new upper flipper assembly and while changing it out, it was painfully obvious that the coil was binding something aweful. Swapped everything and game plays great again Just one of those things that was going tk happen regardless of my ramp job!

thanks for the update

#20 10 years ago

HOLY COW....
every time I think I have this..... well, the first 5 or so games went fine. Decided that I wanted to play a bunch and the ramp started getting harder and harder to make, with the ball almost making it, then rolling back down.
I checked underneath and the coil seemed unusually warm....brand new coil.
So.....recap:
I have had the game for about 5 years with no known flipper issue. I replaced the ramps and installed a colordmd last week and noticed airballs followed by weakness in upper flipper. I replaced the whole assembly with new, inspected the bat and it seems fine. I spaced the flipper properly relative to the playfield.I see no wires shorting anywhere under the upper playfield. I cleaned the opto flipper switches with a q tip hoping by some miracle that was causing a problem.
Is there a board component to check that may cause this issue? any other suggestions?
Thanks for sticking with me here!

#21 10 years ago

My suggestion is to read vid1900's flipper rebuild guide and properly rebuild all the flipper components on that flipper.

#22 10 years ago

Thanks. It is a whole assembly put together by Terry, so everything is brand new. Figured he has to be waaay better at it than me
just noticed with playfield up....if I hold down the flipper button, the upper coil seems to make a staticcy pulsing sound. never heard it before, but sounds like it is coming from the coil.

#23 10 years ago

Sometimes ya get lucky! Finally...I was checking and reseating ribbon cables, after I had a flashback to a problem years ago on a roadshow and Lloyd imparted the advice, and found a pretty severe kink in one leading to the fliptronic board. well, I unkinked it and now the thing is like greased lightening. Had one of my best games ever and coil stays cool now. I guess there was a crappy feed. Ordering new ribbon cables right now. Man, what a relief!!

#24 10 years ago

I'm not convinced that a kink in a ribbon cable would cause your issues.......

#25 10 years ago

hmmm. all I did was reseat the cables. Then, when I repositioned that kink, the humming stopped upon holding the flipper button, and the flipper began acting normally. I will be replacing the ribbon cables and at this point I am not embarrassed aboit posting a follow up

#26 10 years ago

Guess what? you were right! This is driving me nuts! The flipper was working great. Today.....weak as hell and coil heats up quick. maybe an intermittant issue? what the heck could cause this? I have checked and rechecked. I switched the flipper button opto boards to see of the problem followed.....nope.
I re-checked the spacing between flipper and playfield....not too tight not too sloppy. No cracks in flipper bat.... I don't get it! It "feels" strong, and when the flipper button is held, it stays activated firmly.
I tried games with other games off, dehumidifier off, other stuff on......no idea what else to check and it makes the game unplayable

#27 10 years ago

desperation bump

#28 10 years ago

one thing you could check is that underneath the mini playfield there is a ball guide that comes very close to the flipper assembly IIRC. Maybe it is hanging up on that. Scratching my head with you.

#29 10 years ago

Yeah, I saw that too.....smooth motion all the way, I can't see any hangup there. Thanks for the input just the same.

#30 10 years ago

Are you using a conical spring or the outside tab spring?

#31 10 years ago

it is a conical spring, installed bt pinball life.

#32 10 years ago

Try unplugging the sigma display. Sttng folks had similar issues. Started after the new display

Mk

#33 10 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

desperation bump

Hi vzfguy,

Based on everything you have already tried, I suspect the Fliptronics board. If you aren't comfortable troubleshooting it, you can swap it out with another WPC game (CFtBL). You can also swap out the data cable you suspected earlier.

You have mentioned the flipper coil is getting hot. This is the area you need to troubleshoot. A bad (melted or partially shorted) coil can cause this problem, but you replaced the coil and flipper assembly. Remember, the flipper coil has 2 independent windings. One high strength (low resistance) winding to give the flipper the powerful snap needed when the flipper button is pushed, and one low strength (higher resistance) winding to keep the flipper in the upper position without overheating the coil.

When the flipper reaches its upper travel, the end of stroke switch closes. This tells the Fliptronics board to de-energize the high power (flip) winding and energize the low power (hold) winding. The problems you have described can be caused by the low power winding remaining energized even when the EOS switch is open or by the high power winding receiving enough leakage current to slowly heat the coil. The over-heating coil will slowly expand until it physically binds the flipper sleeve.

#34 10 years ago

In order for the coil to be getting hot, it seems that the high power must be going to it too often. Trying to think of how EoS might be able to cause this also. If EoS is set so that it engages but slightly too late, it could be actually arcing and calling for another high power pulse when you're holding the flipper button in. You can test this though. Go to switch edge test. I believe White water will energize the flippers during edge test. Here hold the right flipper button. Both right flippers should engage. You should see two flipper buttons active and two end of strokes active. Is anything toggling on and off? If you pound on the playfield a bit while holding the right flipper button in, does anything toggle then? If the upper flipper EoS pulses a bit in these scenarios, bend it slightly so it engages a little bit sooner (not much sooner, just enough to stop it from toggling while held up).

This is sort of a long shot, but worth checking. If that gets you nowhere, I would also suspect the fliptronics board. Swapping with another game is also what I would recommend.

Based on your description, I do not suspect the colordmd to be related. The STTNG weak flipper issue was caused by weak 12v which powered the flipper optos. All the flippers would be weak not just the upper - and when they were weak the coils would not get hot in this scenario.

#35 10 years ago

Thank you, guys. It was something on the fliptronics board. I feel a little guilty because I was impatient and replaced the whole board rather than learn and fix the problem, but game is 100% and man does it feel great to hit those ramps now

#36 10 years ago

That's great. Now you can enjoy those new ramps.

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