(Topic ID: 195418)

Whitewater sound issue


By Arcade

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Topher5000
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    IMG_4540 (resized).JPG
    IMG_4539 (resized).JPG
    IMG_4537 (resized).JPG
    capacitor 26.jpg
    IMG_4491 (resized).JPG
    800px-WPC_Sound_Board (resized).jpg

    #1 2 years ago

    I have a Whitewater that I need to finally tackle a sound problem.
    The problem is this:

    The game always starts fine. But after a couple of games in the sound will cut off completely and just to to a high pitched wooooo sound.
    A lot of times I can switch the power back off and on again and it will fix itself. But not always.

    The game has a new CPU board and all new data cables.
    I am guessing I need to start replacing parts on the sound board. If that is the case what are the usual suspects that would cause this?
    Or might the problem be something else I have just not thought of.

    #2 2 years ago

    Maybe a pinsound board would enhance the sound and prevent from making expenses for an old board

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    Maybe a pinsound board would enhance the sound and prevent from making expenses for an old board

    I have thought about that. But $400 for a sound board is not in the cards right now.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from jimy_speedt:

    Maybe a pinsound board would enhance the sound and prevent from making expenses for an old board

    ...and, the PinSound board has (or had) an incompatibility with RottenDog MPU boards in WH2O. It would only work with an original WPC MPU. I don't know if this problem has been fixed.

    I'd start with the easy stuff....ribbon cables. Reseat the ribbon to the sound board at all 4 points where it connects to the MPU, FlipTronics, Sound, and Dot controller boards.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    ...and, the PinSound board has (or had) an incompatibility with RottenDog MPU boards in WH2O. It would only work with an original WPC MPU. I don't know if this problem has been fixed.
    I'd start with the easy stuff....ribbon cables. Reseat the ribbon to the sound board at all 4 points where it connects to the MPU, FlipTronics, Sound, and Dot controller boards.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    Thanks Chris.
    Already did all that . Brand new ribbon cables installed.
    Did not help.
    Hoping my F-14 board you repaired comes in tomorrow though.

    #6 2 years ago

    OK...You probably have another pre-DCS game.
    There are several socketed ICs on that board.
    You can swap them, one at a time to see if that fixes anything.
    The YM2151 and the 3012 work in conjunction.

    The X9C503 digital POT on the board fails fairly often, but usually the failure manifests in a full blast volume jump.
    After swapping chips, if that doesn't yield results, you can "listen" to the analog signal at various points with a logic probe. I put quite a bit of info in the PinWiki about this board.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #7 2 years ago

    Thanks for the info Chris.
    By the way the F-14 board has arrived. (no time to install yet)

    Anyway on the sound board for my Whitewater.
    Here is a photo I copied from your pinwiki site. I indeed have a pre DCS sound board.
    I noticed that one of the stickers that covers a sound rom window had fallen off. (I have since taped it off)
    Are the two sound roms the ones you want me to swap places? Or were you just referring to ordering new sound roms and replacing these?
    And yes this sound board is paired with a new rottendog CPU. The batteries had leaked to bad to save the original.
    Not sure as to what chips I can swap.
    Thanks.

    800px-WPC_Sound_Board (resized).jpg

    #8 2 years ago

    Little off topic, but since it is my topic...

    Huge shout out to Chris Hibler for not only repairing my F-14 CPU board but then helping me diagnose what the shipping company did to it on the way back. I might have figured it out by accident but he methodically stepped me through testing and got the game to boot once again.
    Thanks Chris.

    Also just noticed that I have been mispronouncing your name all these years. Could have sworn it was Hilber. Ooops.
    Got it now though.

    #9 2 years ago

    Start by placing your WH2O ROMs in the spare board.
    Test.
    Next swap the 68B09EP from a known good board to the suspect board.
    Test.
    Next swap the YM2151 from a known good board to the suspect board.
    Test.
    Then the YM3012....
    That will have exhausted all of the "easy" things to do.

    After that, if it's still failing, wait for the failure then put the meat of your index finger on the RAM chip (it has the serial number sticker on it in the picture). Determine if it feels abnormally hot. If it has a sticker, is the sticker burned?

    Carry on soldier.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Start by placing your WH2O ROMs in the spare board.

    Maybe my brain is just off right now. But what spare board?
    Did you mean spare socket?

    And are any of those chips still available at a reasonable cost?
    Usually moving IC chips back and forth can lead to two broken games. lol
    I do have an Addams Family and a Twilight Zone I could pull from, but if they are cheap and available I would rather just order new ones.

    1 week later
    #11 2 years ago

    After finally pulling my sound board out of the game, the problem became evident.
    I have a totally burnt capacitor.
    If I put the part number in Marco's web page I get a hit but since the one in their photo looks nothing like the old ones one the board I thought I would ask the experts.

    The Capacitor in question is C26
    The part number is listed as 5041-09031-00
    It is listed as a 1 ufd TANT in the manual.
    Will the one in this Marco link work for this part?

    http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch;jsessionid=B0F7A1644F12D5C44D26C7EA865BA070.jvm1?SEARCH_STRING=5041-09031-00

    IMG_4491 (resized).JPG

    #12 2 years ago

    Yep. The replacement from Marco will work fine.
    Tantalum caps are polarized. Note positive and negative when installing the new cap or you'll get a quite spectacular explosion.

    Those tantalum caps give up the ghost once in a while on the pre-DCS sound board. It's not very unusual. Simply replacing the cap should get you back in business.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Yep. The replacement from Marco will work fine.
    Tantalum caps are polarized. Note positive and negative when installing the new cap or you'll get a quite spectacular explosion.
    Those tantalum caps give up the ghost once in a while on the pre-DCS sound board. It's not very unusual. Simply replacing the cap should get you back in business.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    Thanks Chris.
    I am going to go to my local electronics shop first. They will either have it in stock or be able to get it in by Monday.
    I can see the + mark on the one next to it. Guessing it will go in the same direction since they are next to each other?
    I will clean up the board and look for markings on the board as well.
    Unless you can already tell by the photo which end the positive side will go to.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from Arcade:

    Guessing it will go in the same direction since they are next to each other?
    ...........
    Unless you can already tell by the photo which end the positive side will go to.

    No !

    place it this way :

    capacitor 26.jpg

    #15 2 years ago

    Zara to the rescue again!
    For future reference, we also have board pics in the PinWiki that can help with part locations and identification.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #16 2 years ago

    That is awesome guys.
    Thanks.

    And what an amazing graphic that is.
    Well done sir.

    Marco has already shipped my parts. Man those guys are fast.
    Found enough stuff to make the shipping worth it.
    Went ahead and got 10 of the little capacitors as it made them only .39 cents each.

    1 week later
    #17 2 years ago

    Update.
    My parts just came in due to hurricane Harvey.
    However even though I ordered the capacitors from Marco that I linked to above and got approval that they would work they just look way to large compared to what is on the board now.
    I took a couple of photos to show the size difference.
    Since modern parts are usually smaller I wanted to ask before squeezing this thing on the board.
    So should I use this or not?

    IMG_4537 (resized).JPG

    IMG_4539 (resized).JPG

    #18 2 years ago

    Those are electrolytic caps. They are necessarily larger than tantalum caps. They will work. Take note of polarity.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Those are electrolytic caps. They are necessarily larger than tantalum caps. They will work. Take note of polarity.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    Got it.
    Thanks

    #20 2 years ago

    And the hits just keep on coming.

    Decided to replace the two largest caps since I had already purchased them.
    Had the iron out so why not.
    Only to discover this bad boy hiding behind them where you could not see.
    It is labled C46 but if I'm no where near my manual to see what it is.
    Arrrrgh!!

    IMG_4540 (resized).JPG

    #21 2 years ago

    Found an online PDF of manual.
    Looks like C26 and C46 are the same part.
    Never do I get that lucky. Lol

    #22 2 years ago

    C47 is looking a little toasty too.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    C47 is looking a little toasty too.

    Thought so as well.
    But it cleaned up nicely.
    Got all the work done, but I'm at work now so I will install the board tonight and keep my fingers crossed that it works and no "magic smoke"

    #24 2 years ago

    Well good news and bad.
    Got my sound card installed and it works!!!
    However I could not give it a good burn in test because all of a sudden out of the blue my Bigfoot head just keeps spinning to the left non stop.
    Are the Whitewater gods against me?

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from Arcade:

    Are the Whitewater gods against me?

    BigFoot mad....!
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #26 2 years ago

    Messin' with sasquatch!

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