(Topic ID: 552)

Whitewater or The Shadow


By ianwho

10 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 74 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by DeathHimself
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image.jpg

There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

I wanted both, got a Shadow and now my desire for Wh20 went down.
I DIG wh20, but not 3K+ DIG.

I'm in the same boat.

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from sylvan_glade:

I have heard that both machines are a challenge to maintain. Is this true?I imagine that because of the low production numbers,Shadow parts would be hard to come by. I would love for owners to chime in. Availability of parts? Niggly issues?

Once its shopped and gone thru it was no different than any other game to keep running. The Battlefield needs to be set up properly. Some games were made with plastic gears ( I think) and later brass or metal gears were available. You want the metal / brass gears. Also the wiring harness in the battlefield is subject to tearing itself up if not secured and routed correctly.

Playfield parts can be hard to find if needed such as the Mongol's, rings, etc.

#53 7 years ago

Shadow all the way. Has way more going for it. Whitewater is bland and not as deep. Shadow is way harder and a great home game, due to it's depth and difficulty. Whitewater is great to play at someone elses house, or at a show. I wouldn't want one, unless I had room for 100 games. Probably 84th on my list.

#55 7 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Playfield parts can be hard to find if needed such as the Mongol's, rings, etc.

The mongols and phurbas have been recently reproed. The rings, however, are still impossible to find.

#56 7 years ago

Whitewater,Shadow may be fun but I couldnt stare at Alec Baldwin.Hes a @?!ck.I just bought a Champion Pub and its awesome.Personally Im just tired of movie pins with there faces all over the machine.

I couldn't stand looking at him either.

image.jpg

#57 7 years ago

I have owned both, in fact WH20 twice. TS is still here and the caveman was booted twice.

#58 7 years ago
Quoted from TZBen:

I have heard that both machines are a challenge to maintain. Is this true?I imagine that because of the low production numbers,Shadow parts would be hard to come by. I would love for owners to chime in. Availability of parts? Niggly issues?
I own a lot of games that are considered complicated (sttng, tz) and once you get them clean and functioning with a good shop job they are as low maintenance as any other machine. I haven't done anything to my Shadow besides put on wax and new rubbers in 2 years.

+1

Dan

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from TZBen:

I have heard that both machines are a challenge to maintain. Is this true?I imagine that because of the low production numbers,Shadow parts would be hard to come by. I would love for owners to chime in. Availability of parts? Niggly issues?
I own a lot of games that are considered complicated (sttng, tz) and once you get them clean and functioning with a good shop job they are as low maintenance as any other machine. I haven't done anything to my Shadow besides put on wax and new rubbers in 2 years.

Me too. Had TS for about a year and cleaned it and that was about it. Oh, I added LEDs under the playfield inserts to lighten it up. Solid machine.

#60 7 years ago

Shadow for the value. Whitewater might be a better investment though? Seems like Wh20 are fast becoming a 6k+ machine when nice ones are for sale.

#61 7 years ago

Own both, like both alot!!

Really can't go wrong with either, both are great games in their own right, comes down to personal preference. I will say if you are looking at bang for the buck, Shadow is near impossible to beat!!

1 week later
#62 7 years ago
#63 7 years ago
Quoted from radrats:

Shadow for the value. Whitewater might be a better investment though? Seems like Wh20 are fast becoming a 6k+ machine when nice ones are for sale.

i doubt Wh20 will becomes a 6k machine. The price rise is due to the massive cost it takes to restore one. Wh20 is one of the most expensive games to restore. So the ones that do it, don't want to take a large hit, so they have been asking a lot more money, but not because of rarity, or game quality, just because of the parts investment.

#64 7 years ago

An interesting thread. Thanks. I've played WH20 many times, but I've never had the chance to play TS. I'll be looking for one now to try.

It's a point of frustration that there are so few arcades within a reasonable driving distance (really only one, The Lost Ark). I try to get to the auction in Winston-Salem just to have the chance to see other machines "in the flesh." That's a great opportunity even you aren't presently in the market.

#65 7 years ago

The music in WH2O is insanely clever. It's like 12 different songs, more frantic each level.

The Shadow is an OK game, I have not sold it yet, but Whitewater is 100x more fun.

#66 7 years ago

If you want a game that you need to learn the rules, shots,work to get a decent score and most people do not enjoy it buy a Shadow. Its as much fun as TZ and I sold both of them and not missed.

If you want a much better looking (IMHO), fun and enjoyable game get a Wh20.

#67 7 years ago

I find that the Shadow is better than WW, but WW is good so. In all case, there are very good both!

#68 7 years ago

SHADOW.

I've played both at Mr.Wizzos arcade dungeon and TS blew me away. When that game is moving and you are on working those ramps back and forth plus the mini PF action.....it's a blast. Yeah the translite is only for the purist of fans of the movie but there is no time to notice it with the action going on on that PF.

White water is fun for a minute with its ramps and Bigfoot stuff.....but I couldn't get into the flow of the game. NEATO topper for sure.

#69 7 years ago

Both good games, but I really like the Shadow. Killer sound package and the game is fast.

#70 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

Shadow.
I've played both at Mr.Wizzos arcade dungeon and TS blew me away. When that game is moving and you are on working those ramps back and forth plus the mini PF action.....it's a blast. Yeah the translite is only for the purist of fans of the movie but there is no time to notice it with the action going on on that PF.
White Water is fun for a minute with its ramps and Bigfoot stuff.....but I couldn't get into the flow of the game. NEATO topper for sure.

Had a similar experience at MrWizzo's, enough to convince me to acquire TS as my first pin. Now, if only it would arrive...

#72 7 years ago

Shadow has legs so its probably the better game for you personally. If you want something that's accessible to friends and family (non-pinheads) then I'd go with whitewater.

#73 7 years ago

I have WH2O and I have researched extensively about the Shadow, I plan to have it as well. If possible, get both. Both player games, vastly different.

As for maintenance WH2O's burden is:
- many ramps need much $$$ for keeping pin in immaculate state. Bigfoot ramp gets busted without plastic protector, Whirlpool ramp gets cracked in a part sticking into the playfield, both left and right ramps get cracks in lower part where the ball bangs just before dropping into inlanes, subway ramp gets very dirty very soon. Except for bigfoot ramp everything is purely cosmetic, depends on your OCD level. If you need your ramps mint and clear, it would cost you dearly to replace them.
- bumper caps -> "boulder garden" get broken also. One online retailer has individual plastics, others sell all plastic mountains as a $129+ kit.
- upper playfield gets divot for a ball to sit in at the VUK. You'd need relatively inexpensive cliffy protector.
- one place at left slingshot always gets a wear spot all the way to the wood. Inevitable. There is a overlay for it.
- on my WH2O VUK ball cup falls off regularly. A nightmare to screw back because it is heavily obstructed by a large number of ramps and a wireform. Maybe the screw is too short. Currently I leave it without a ball cup.
- playfield tear down is a nightmare due to huge number of elements.
- upper playfield often develop planking

The Shadow has a lot of things to shoot for and IMO complements Whitewater nicely:
- It has 6 modes when you want variety. Whitewater is not a mode based game. Both have goals to progress to the end.
- It has a wizard mode with 5 ball multiball. This wizard mode is goal based, you have to trip each switch. No wizard mode in WH2O and only 2 and 3 ball multiball, but there is a cool sort of wizard (although it isn't really) award that is very hard to attain.
- It has unique mini game in a form of a upper playfield and a goal to defeat it to progress to wizard mode.
- It has a very nice Jackpot and Super Jackpot system for multiballs. More complicated than WH2O which is also nice in this department.
- It has Mongol and Vengeance games to add variety when you don't want to play regular 6 story modes. WH2O only has Bigfoot hotfoot hurry mode and Man Overboard hurry micro-mode.
- Shadow has no bumpers. Whitewater has 3 and they are covered in expensive plastics.
- It has a great and very difficult video mode. Whitewater doesn't have any.
- Both games have combos.
- Both games require precise shooting and punish mistakes.
- Both games have flow.
- It has two ramps (not plastic) with player controlled diverters for ramp shoot variety. Still Whitewater has more variety in ramps and passages.
- It has a nice magnet controlled lock with no play value other than awe from audience.
- Both games have nice DMD animations and easter eggs within.
- Both are 3 flipper games.
- The Shadow has an automatic plunger with STTNG type plunge award that still require player to shoot a ramp upon plunge. WH2O has a manual plunger with skill shot requiring to drop a ball on the upper playfield (via steep plunger wireframe) and hit a ramp with third flipper. IMHO, much more variety with TS.
- WH2O has a topper that is very costly.
- The Shadow has better, DCS, sound.
- WH2O has a way better translite.

Regarding TS maintenance I read that:

- upper playfield may cause mechanical problems
- replacement decorative rings on ramps are hard to find
- replacement mongol figurines (3 of them) are hard to find
- replacement complete plastics set very hard to find
- replacement diverters (Phurbas) hard to find
- magnet burn on Sanctuary and divot common problem equivalent to Whitewater lost mine wear and VUK divot

I hope that my post was helpful if not original enough

#74 7 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

I have WH2O and I have researched extensively about The Shadow, I plan to have it as well. If possible, get both. Both player games, vastly different.
As for maintenance WH2O's burden is:- many ramps need much $$$ for keeping pin in immaculate state. Bigfoot ramp gets busted without plastic protector, Whirlpool ramp gets cracked in a part sticking into the playfield, both left and right ramps get cracks in lower part where the ball bangs just before dropping into inlanes, subway ramp gets very dirty very soon. Except for bigfoot ramp everything is purely cosmetic, depends on your OCD level. If you need your ramps mint and clear, it would cost you dearly to replace them.- bumper caps -> "boulder garden" get broken also. One online retailer has individual plastics, others sell all plastic mountains as a $129+ kit.- upper playfield gets divot for a ball to sit in at the VUK. You'd need relatively inexpensive cliffy protector.- one place at left slingshot always gets a wear spot all the way to the wood. Inevitable. There is a overlay for it.- on my WH2O VUK ball cup falls off regularly. A nightmare to screw back because it is heavily obstructed by a large number of ramps and a wireform. Maybe the screw is too short. Currently I leave it without a ball cup.- playfield tear down is a nightmare due to huge number of elements.- upper playfield often develop planking
The Shadow has a lot of things to shoot for and IMO complements Whitewater nicely:- It has 6 modes when you want variety. Whitewater is not a mode based game. Both have goals to progress to the end.- It has a wizard mode with 5 ball multiball. This wizard mode is goal based, you have to trip each switch. No wizard mode in WH2O and only 2 and 3 ball multiball, but there is a cool sort of wizard (although it isn't really) award that is very hard to attain.- It has unique mini game in a form of a upper playfield and a goal to defeat it to progress to wizard mode.- It has a very nice Jackpot and Super Jackpot system for multiballs. More complicated than WH2O which is also nice in this department.- It has Mongol and Vengeance games to add variety when you don't want to play regular 6 story modes. WH2O only has Bigfoot hotfoot hurry mode and Man Overboard hurry micro-mode.- Shadow has no bumpers. Whitewater has 3 and they are covered in expensive plastics.- It has a great and very difficult video mode. Whitewater doesn't have any.- Both games have combos.- Both games require precise shooting and punish mistakes.- Both games have flow.- It has two ramps (not plastic) with player controlled diverters for ramp shoot variety. Still Whitewater has more variety in ramps and passages.- It has a nice magnet controlled lock with no play value other than awe from audience.- Both games have nice DMD animations and easter eggs within.- Both are 3 flipper games.- The Shadow has an automatic plunger with STTNG type plunge award that still require player to shoot a ramp upon plunge. WH2O has a manual plunger with skill shot requiring to drop a ball on the upper playfield (via steep plunger wireframe) and hit a ramp with third flipper. IMHO, much more variety with TS.- WH2O has a topper that is very costly.- The Shadow has better, DCS, sound.- WH2O has a way better translite.
Regarding TS maintenance I read that:
- upper playfield may cause mechanical problems- replacement decorative rings on ramps are hard to find- replacement mongol figurines (3 of them) are hard to find- replacement complete plastics set very hard to find- replacement diverters (Phurbas) hard to find- magnet burn on Sanctuary and divot common problem equivalent to Whitewater lost mine wear and VUK divot
I hope that my post was helpful if not original enough

Excellent breakdown of both machines.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 5.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
$ 999.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside