(Topic ID: 57710)

WHITEWATER CLUB= Lifejackets not required

By Skypilot

9 years ago

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  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by billsfanmd
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#574 7 years ago

I've been waiting so long to join, and I am finally a member! Time to go back to the top of this thread and read through it!

#578 7 years ago

I read through it! It apparently only took two hours! My shopping list continues to grow!

2 weeks later
#610 7 years ago

I can't wait to get rid of all the LEDs in my new White Water. Incandescent, baby!

1 month later
#649 7 years ago
Quoted from mac622:

Anyone know the part #'s of the long spacer and short spacer on top of the ball guide or can tell me the correct lengths they're supposed to be?

From the parts list on IPDB:

928 .2 A-16082-1 playfield plastic assy 1
929 ..3 01-9270 ball guide-flpr 1
930 ..3 31-1726-7 plfd plastic-white water 1
931 ..3 03-8022-1 "spacer .541 L""" 6
932 ..3 4006-01005-30 ms 6-32X1-7/8 p-ph 3
1026 .2 A-16444 left flipper guide assy 1
1027 ..3 01-9268 ball guide-flipper 1
1028 ..3 03-8022-1 "spacer .541 L""" 3
1029 ..3 03-6047-2 spacer 3/8 1
1030 ..3 4700-00011-00 fw .172X.437X.059 1
1031 ..3 4006-01005-20 ms 6-32X1-1/4 p-ph 1
1032 ..3 4006-01005-26 ms 6-32X1-5/8 p-ph 1

I think I'm looking at the right thing. 0.541" below the metal. 3/8" above the metal on the left side. (This matches my notes and measurements from my teardown.)

In stock at Marco:

1 week later
#683 7 years ago

That's a damn shame. Sorry to hear it.

#690 7 years ago

Yeah, I've never gone to buy a machine and come home empty handed, so it's hard to say if I have what it takes. It sounds like you made the right call.

Cabinet decals: $300

New playfield: $800

New ramps: $600

Misc. parts: $200

A lot of time: priceless

1 week later
#750 7 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

So basically the process would be something like this:

1. remove decals
2. clean ramp thoroughly with simple green .. (something non flammable I'd think) or the dishwasher.
3. flame on
4. reapply new decals

That's right.

On the game, I got, every single one of the 7 ramps was cracked somewhere. Flame polishing was not a viable option for me.

#772 7 years ago

The operation of the plunger is not just affected by the stiffness of the spring. The two prongs on the shooter gauge (metal piece that the ball rests against) can bend, and they have a big influence on where the shooter contacts the ball and how much energy is transferred.

When I first got my White Water, a full hard plunge would give me the skill shot 90% of the time. The ball would very rarely ever go all the way around and down the spine chiller. I didn't like that one bit. I thought the shooter spring might be wrong and the game might be too steep. I eventually disproved both of those theories and found that bending the metal prongs on the shooter gauge gave me a ton of control to get it just how I like it.

And in case it's not clear what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the U shaped part at the top of this guy:

1 week later
#834 7 years ago

I'm beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel on my playfield swap. Two wiring harnesses installed, and today was the first day I hooked anything up to test.

Switches all work! Lamps and GI work!

Playfield Installed... sort of

Controlled Lights


#843 7 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

How the hell does one light RIVER 5 times without losing a ball?!!! Crazy..


1 week later
#890 7 years ago

Shopping or restoring a White Water has proven to be a very very interesting experience. I started disassembling mine in December. New playfield, new ramps, new boulders. I've finally hit the home stretch, I think, but it's been a very interesting ride.

Doing the playfield swap (my first) went roughly as expected. I didn't have any major snags. I learned a lot and made slow progress at a steady pace. I completed the bottom of the playfield and got all three harnesses installed a week or two ago. I got the playfield back in the game and started populating the top. That was a bit of a grind for a while, until I got to the point where I started installing boulders and plastics, and the game started looking complete. All of a sudden, I'm quickly making major progress with every step, the playfield is looking packed full of stuff, and my containers with all of the hardware are really starting to run low.

And then I looked around the room... The game looks jam packed full of stuff, but I still have five more ramps and the upper playfield to install. As I was starting to dry fit ramps onto the upper playfield while it's in the game, my jaw just dropped in awe of how densely packed this game is. The rats nest of ramps is awe inspiring. That game has so much going on, and looks so amazing, my only conclusion is that Dennis Nordman must be a god!

#892 7 years ago

Nothing really comes to mind. I now know the few places where the tolerances are pretty tight, but this should really only affect you if you're doing a playfield swap or installing new ramps.

#895 7 years ago

Ah yes, Disaster Drop. Tolerances around the entrance of that ramp are tight. If you install the Mantis protectors behind the green lite-lock targets, it makes it even tighter, although they really do seem worthwhile. The ramp protectors will need to be installed after the metal ball guides and even the ramps.

#929 7 years ago
Quoted from PjM:

I put in a orange FL1-15411 for the left flipper, what is the 1 after FL? Does that a concern?

No, that's fine. According to Marco, FL1 has quick connect connectors.

#939 7 years ago

I just had the best/worst game of White Water I've ever had.

I got to Wet Willy's, completed the whirlpool awards, and was at class six river on ball two, possibly with an extra ball lit (I had several). Suddenly, the VUK to the upper playfield starts sounding and kicking quite a bit. The game was obviously confused. I continued to play for a while, but the game was giving me phantom multiballs, kicking two balls into the shooter lane, and clearly having a lot of problems. On ball three, I kept making lock shots, but the game kept kicking balls out to the upper playfield, making it impossible to lock more than one. So... I didn't. I couldn't. Final score, 900+ million, but no Vacation Jackpot.

I lifted the playfield after the game, and a wire had broken off the center ball lock opto. I soldered it back on immediately and was back in action, but that one hurt.

#968 7 years ago

People seriously like LEDs in this game? I live in incandescent heaven. You can't even see anything in the game pictured above!


#995 7 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

What are you guys using?

Incandescent #555s with red bulb covers!


#998 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

GI is the main culprit there no doubt.

All blue LED GI in White Water made me want to throw up.

#1002 7 years ago
Quoted from PjM:

If acceptable, if some one can take I picture under the playfield how the lights are suppose to be that would be great.

I can't guarantee that mine are wired correctly, because I did a playfield swap and found my pictures weren't quite good enough when I was redoing this. But, they work, and the setup makes sense...

So... disclaimer: not factory original!



All three bumpers are on the orange/white-orange GI circuit.

The right bumper is connected in parallel with two other GI lights on both sides of the Boomerang Bend insert via yellow wires.

The bottom bumper is connected to the orange line of the right bumper via a yellow wire along the far right side of the playfield. It's visible in the second picture. The orange-white wire comes straight out of the harness near the bottom pop bumper coil.

The left bumper has it's own orange wire (single wire) that comes out of the harness near the left pop bumper coil. This is connected under the trough in my pictures. The white-orange wire is shared with the bottom pop bumper, as described above. In my setup with lugs and screws, the only white-orange wire pictures connects to the wire leads from two pop bumpers: bottom and left.

Hope that helps!

Mmmm.... Incandescent goodness!


#1004 7 years ago

I made a hilariously bad annotated drawing of one of the photos above. It's ugly and messy and confusing, but it just might provide you some clarity if you spend enough time looking at it.

Orange is orange.

The white-orange line is represented by green!

boulder gi.jpg

1 week later
#1011 7 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Fellas: I'd like to paint my topper light shield black. It has some chips in the paint.

Can't help with that in particular, but I do have a good tip for you I picked up from High End Pins via their photos. Two bulb covers over the star posts on the shooter lane will protect it from further scratching that piece when the playfield is raised.

See the photo here: http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album362/22_G

1 week later
#1028 7 years ago

I only have LH-6 experience, but it definitely seems like the one.

1 week later
#1064 7 years ago
Quoted from mwong168:

I spent the better part of an hour last night removing his awesome LED kit.

I thought you were going to brag about how good you thought the LEDs looked! I was going to keep my mouth shut. I love the look of that incandescent goodness!

4 weeks later
#1119 7 years ago
Quoted from dlimi:

I bought this lovely game a couple of weeks ago, so count me in

White Water and Addams Family are a great pair. I believe that they are the only two games where the name of the game isn't on the translite/backglass.

2 months later
#1197 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Is the VUK misfiring, or randomly firing, a common malfunction on this game?

The opto switch isn't working. When the light isn't working (or something similar), the game thinks there's a ball in there and tries to kick it out.

If the wires going to both sides of the opto look good, the most likely problem is that the LED emitter is burnt out. Common problem, cheap and easy fix.

Read up on how optos work and how to test them here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches

#1213 7 years ago
Quoted from Sean_R:

I've gotten some feedback that my pin could be a prototype

Wow near. Yeah, mine did not have optos on that ramp. The opto on the mini playfield serves the same purpose. The ramp flap on there is also pretty good.

#1218 7 years ago

I got new ramps in mine (new playfield, too!). Each of the seven old ramps was cracked somewhere. The new ones did seem heavier.

1 week later
#1235 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Do I go into switch test mode now?

It's always time for switch test mode! This is an opto switch so it should indicate that the switch is closed when the light from the emitter can be seen, and open when it's not (i.e. when there's a ball in the VUK). You'll probably see that it is open, which is incorrect. That would explain why the game thinks there's a ball there which it's trying to kick out.

While you're in switch test mode, test the other optos and a few other switches in the same row and column.

You might find this helpful:

#1237 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Thanks! I plan on testing out the optos in the VUK tomorrow night. Is it possible the receiver is weak? It's misfiring, but it is random, not constant.

It's possible. I would think any of the three ball lock optos could cause the VUK to kick when they think there's a ball there. Switch test mode is the only real way to see what's going on.

Did you clean all three of those ball lock optos?

#1256 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Oh, and I did a TEST... looks like I have a series of switches not working. 34, 44, 54, and 74 reported errors. This shouldn't be too difficult to fix as it's probably all related to one problem.

You need to examine the wiring at each of the switches on row 4 of the switch matrix. There's probably a broken wire at one of them.

Refer to the manual or the switch matrix I posted here.

#1259 7 years ago

Try disconnecting the opto board under the playfield and retesting those row 4 switches.

#1272 7 years ago

I thing I used a machine screw with a nylock nut, although I may have used a sheet metal screw. Definitely flat phillips head.

#1273 7 years ago

Relavant search results on Marco

Parts list on IPDB (I looked but was unable to identify it.)

#1286 7 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Last few tweaks. Upper flipper shooting right side ramp to Whirlpool I am getting rejects half the time. It's hitting the metal switch bracket mounted on top of ramp. The ramp def generates some ball lift. Any solutions?

The Pinbits White Water Clear Plastics + Protectors set comes with a modifiied version of the plastic that sits above that ramp that prevents balls from hitting the switch bracket. It's excellent.

Old Plastic:

New Plastic:

3 weeks later
#1309 6 years ago
Quoted from parabol420:

Any ideas on what is causing this and what the fix is?

The most common and best documented problem in pinball!

Go here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Read it.

Don't skip steps!

2 weeks later
#1328 6 years ago

I needed new speakers for mine, so I bought either Pinball Pros or the other one (I think they're pretty much the same). They do sound good with lots of bass (if you want it).

#1338 6 years ago

I don't think those would work for the older two-coil troughs like White Water. Dremel?

#1340 6 years ago

I can see that. I've got something similar going on with my Fireball at the moment.

#1354 6 years ago
Quoted from offdutyninja1:

1. When you put the playfield in the upright maintenance position, is it supposed to lean on the back box via the star posts on the shooter guard? There is a lot of damage and wear on the top right of the back box where the star posts contact, and the shooter guard is cracked (it seems from letting it hit the back box too hard)

Yes! That's how it's supposed to work. A trick I picked up from Chris Hutchin's (High End Pins) photos is to put a rubber lamp cover over each of those posts/screws. It provides just a little bit of cushion.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

2. The back glass leans, that is it is low on the right side, so low that there is a noticeable gap in the top right corner. Suggestions for a fix?

Does any of the trim need to be replaced?

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

3. A failed soft plunge to the upper playfield goes from the spine chiller sdtm. Any advice on a fix?

The home ROM provides a software solution. It'll give you a ball save every time. For a hardware solution, you'd need to find some way to adjust that ramp, which may not be easy...

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

4. The side guard of insanity falls right after the first drop is cracked off, usually not a problem but 1 in 10 shots hits the exposed edge and falls off onto the playfield. I assume this will only make the damage worse... Any advice before buying a new ramp?

New ramps are sweet and seem nice and solid and like they'll hold up really well. Time will tell, of crouse

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

5. The kickback works, but the tip of the plastic shooter is very cracked and sharp. Can I cover it with a rubber plunger tip?

I don't think so, but it's a $7 part that Marco has in stock.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

6. Any fix for a bubbled topper foil?

Easy one... um.... I don't know.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

7. I know the flippers are supposed to be different strength, but all 3 of my flippers are the same (orange wrapper). Worth changing if they all seem to work fine?

There are some discrepancies in the manual, but it seems that the upper flipper has a red coil (a little weaker than an orange), and the lower right is a blue coil (a little stronger than an orange). If you think you notice any problems with those flipper being too strong or too weak, you can give a shot at replacing them, but it probably won't be very noticeable.

3 weeks later
#1384 6 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Could someone tell me the distance between the playfield and upper playfield? Are the posts holding it up all the same height? Anyone happen to have extra posts?

I referenced the parts list to try to answer this question. I knew that the threads on it were 10-32, and I knew there were four in the game, so that quickly narrowed it down to this guy:

post m-m 10-32x2 3/8 3/8rnd

It's also listed in the "Unique Parts List" on page 2-36 of the manual as:

Standoff, 10-32 x 3/8

Unfortunately, searching for that part doesn't turn up much.

The distance is probably 2-3/8". Unless that's the overall length of the posts.

The four posts are identical.

Good luck!

1 week later
#1391 6 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Hey guys, what roms are you running? I got the home roms in mine and would like to switch as my game is going on location. Is L5 the latest?

I think so. http://www.actionpinball.com/tech/ww.php

#1395 6 years ago
Quoted from Archytas:

Firstly the game is pretty dirty, everywhere on ramps etc. From what I can see WH20 is going to be a pretty hard game to tear down completely but I just wanted to hear from anyone else who has done it. I'm not looking to completely take everything off the playfield but just enough so I can nicely clean the back of the game, habitrails etc to get it fairly clean again. Is this doable?

There are instructions in the manual for removing the upper playfield, which is surprisingly not that difficult.

Quoted from Archytas:

2 of the leg plates are knackered (bolts just spin in them). I can get replacements but how hard are these to replace?


Quoted from Archytas:

Secondly the game is partially LED'd and I'm going to be swapping some of these around. I was thinking of doing LED's in the topper but looking at another post this appears to be a no-go as LED's burn out due to it requiring special bulbs, are there any LED kits for the topper out there I can get hold of?

Those bulbs are (I think) 12 volts instead of the normal 5. From what I've read, there are not LEDs available that provide the same visual effect as incandescent bulbs.

2 months later
#1470 6 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Can it be upgraded to flipptronic?

Yes, it can (and probably should) be rebuilt using a normal flipper rebuild kit, the same as the bottom flippers. Not sure why it wouldn't have been this way in the first place.

Edit: maybe not true...

7 months later
#2149 5 years ago

Anyone have opinions on a price for a restored White Water? I'm taking mine to the Cleveland Pinball Show in a couple weeks and considering selling it.

New playfield, new ramps, new boulders, new topper dome, ColorDMD, clean as a whistle and plays 100%. Cabinet is original, a bit faded, but good condition.


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