(Topic ID: 57710)

WHITEWATER CLUB= Lifejackets not required


By Skypilot

6 years ago



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#2718 2 years ago
Quoted from Tjohejsan:

Finished my game, so now i am in the club
It was very dirty when i bought it.
Lots of new parts and lots of cleaning
Whats left now is to changed all the 3 flipper parts.

Very nice! I like the overall look, and seems you have a good taste: no dominant blue, no purple... Good job! This is the real White Water.
And yes, extra points for Road Show

#2720 2 years ago
Quoted from Tjohejsan:

:DThank you
I like clean White bulbs. It looks fresh.
Especially when you polish the playfield.
And clean and flame polish the ramps.
Only some blue att the left targets, and the Whirlpool.

Where did you buy the left inlane plastic?
Seems you need the upper playfield mountain as well.

3 weeks later
#2742 1 year ago
Quoted from Playdium:

I need to find replacement inserts for these pictured. What's the Williams part number?

A good source:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=402&pg=1

Please doublecheck the size.

#2745 1 year ago
Quoted from Playdium:

So is there a clear lens that goes over the insert?
Also need a few pics of the jet bumper lamp lead connections.

In case you see no damage on inserts, you still need decal on it, like this:
http://littleshopofgames.com/product/whitewater-insert-decal-set/

As the decal set doesn't contains pink/black colors related to this insert, you have to paint this as well.

1 week later
#2780 1 year ago
Quoted from Tjohejsan:

Looks reaylly nice.
How much did you pay for that resturation?

Whatever is the answer, you can't say it is good or bad deal without knowing the before status of pf.

3 months later
#2911 1 year ago
Quoted from DefDumBlindKid:

Look at the gleam on that Mirco Playfield, woot! So happy with the way this H20 turned out

Nice! Has minor color issue, but overall looks good. Nice restore!

#2922 1 year ago
Quoted from DefDumBlindKid:

Ahh. I can see it now! But, yes, it wasn’t anything I would notice by playing the game.
I bought a Theater of Magic playfield that I had to send back because it was Very different from the original.

Most probably you have a TAG playfield, and you've got Sun Process version.
In Europe, Sun Process is more common.

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa072914tomdiff.html

#2925 1 year ago
Quoted from DefDumBlindKid:

This information is blowing my mind right now. I had no idea! Nobody has ever mentioned that to me before, and I’ve never seen a European SUN playfield. I wouldn’t have sent it back! Whew. I can kiss that restocking fee goodbye.
Hindsight is a cruel accountant in this hobby. Now I really feel dum

Never mind. That repro was not perfect. That's why he would like to create TAG version too.

#2928 1 year ago

One of the best White Water I have seen.
Seems you have a good taste.

1 month later
#2946 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Thought i would include a photo of the bush repair job on my broken upkicker bracket done by previous owner. You can see the jb weld used to reattach the 2 pieces. Surprised it didn't have duct tape around it also, however I could find that as i get deeper into the machine. Lol!

20180311_152330 (resized).jpg

3 months later
#3011 1 year ago
Quoted from Vino:

Hey fellow rafters, considering a micro pf for my WH20 which is currently has original pf with some planking but doesn’t effect play.
I know ultimately it’s preference, but is it better to just keep the og DP pf intact on this title or consider a swap?
The game isn’t going anywhere.
Looks like a challenging, fun yet frustrating project but gathering some opinions before I go down this part of the river.
Thanks for any input guys

How is your pf look like? Please share some photos.

2 weeks later
#3020 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Hey guys been working on wh20 fixing a bunch of little odds and ends. So i'm down to my last error and am completely stumped on it. I have rebuilt the damn pop bumpers completely and am still getting this error at startup. Just to be clear I had this issue also b4 idid the rebuild. It works completely fine after I reset the error in test mode and scores properly. Anyone have any insight into this issue to help me keep my sanity.

20180727_101014 (resized).jpg
#3029 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Ok Marvin u a bad dude! Got home and checked it out and u sir called it spot on. I didn't realize there were switches under that mountain plastic was thinking it was referring switch 55 to the right pop bumper. Sure enough i took that plastic off and that switch was definitely closed.Thk u!
[quoted image]

As zene10 predicted.

#3033 1 year ago
Quoted from flipordie:

Scrolling thru eBay saw this Topper chrome??
ebay.com link » Whitewater Pinball Machine Topper Chrome Decal Licensed
Where is this stuff suppose to go? Or is it a mod?

There is a reflective sheet on the top of backbox, below topper lamps. However, this ebay stuff looks too short.

DSC_2310 (resized).JPG
#3039 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

So all of a sudden I got the infamous bigfoot error last night. Looked at my bi-directional board and the led would light intermittently. After I looked at the board I determined the cap had started to leak. Question is can I replace the 35v 100uf cap with a 50v 100uf one? I only have the 50v ones on hand and wasnt sure it would make matters worse if i installed it. Any feedback would be great on this thx.

Sure you can replace. Higher voltage rating is not an issue.
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/What-does-the-voltage-rating-on-a-capacitor-mean

2 weeks later
#3050 1 year ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

I have a couple of burned out bulbs in the topper. Thinking I read a post about those bulbs being special ones. Anyone have a link to where I can get spares?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/04-0194

#3059 1 year ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

The WH2O I picked up is claimed to be a two-owner HUO game. Condition of things as I look closely at it leads me to believe it’s true.
Can anyone provide a definitive answer as to why this rubber ring is here...and should/shouldn’t it be in place? Someone said earlier in this thread that it was placed there on the production line to prevent quick drains. So would this be how they came from the factory? Any info is appreciated.[quoted image][quoted image]

Read this section:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/54#post-3979956

#3068 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Bumping this. Have a HEP restored WH2O with a Pinsound 1 board. The Pinsound board has not worked correctly since day one. Now the latest firmware update for the board causes the game to produce NO audio after starting a game. Can't get a reply from the Pinsound guys over the last few days on this recent development (they are typically pretty good at replying). Just frustrating to have an unplayable game. Is anybody else successfully running the Pinsound 1 board (not the new Pinsound Plus Board) with the latest Pinsound firmware on their White Water?

I have seen your videos. Can you post a picture about the board, showing us the status LED's? Is the Running LED lit?
After the firmware upgrade, what is your volume level (at service buttons)?

You can try this:
Pick up another USB. Copy a small sound package file into this drive. Any package is OK, no need to be White Water. Let the board unpack it, then start a game. Activate switches and modes as much as you can, you have to hear some sound/callouts. If not, then seems you have a hardware issue.

#3069 1 year ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Are you 100% sure you have the correct data on your USB stick? What other problems have you had with PinSound? I have PinSound in three games and the only issues I've ever had were with bad or incompatible USB sticks or with setting up the data on the stick incorrectly. These are all original PinSounds running older firmware.
It's summer vacation season for Europeans so the Pinsound guys might be slower in replying.

Correct, in 99% the USB drive is the faulty item. And yes, vacation season in Europe until end of August, especially in France, Italy and Netherlands.

#3077 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. I’ve already tried multiple usb drives. My main volume is at around 12 or so. Ive posted some pics of the board and the leds on the board[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Seems OK at first sight.
I have only 2 idea, simple crosscheck:
1. Can you move the USB from Fish Tales to White Water or from other pin?
2. Can you swap Pinsound board between games?

#3079 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Yes. I can try to swap usb. Could also try to swap the boards if necessary. So, the FT sound package will work in WH2O? Also here is the Pinsound debug data if this helps at all.
31/12/1969 18:00:18.357 INFO Log file enabled : /tmp/pinsound///pinsound-debug.log
31/12/1969 18:00:18.362 INFO Init sound buffers
31/12/1969 18:00:18.365 ERROR OpenSerial: Unable to open /dev/ttySP0
31/12/1969 18:00:18.368 INFO OpenSerial: Opening /dev/ttySP1
31/12/1969 18:00:18.412 INFO hardwareDecode found #FIRMWARE (Version)
31/12/1969 18:00:18.413 INFO Version firmware : 0057
31/12/1969 18:00:18.414 INFO Version software : 18.8.1
31/12/1969 18:00:18.415 INFO hardwareDecode found #HARDWARE (PCB release)
31/12/1969 18:00:18.416 INFO PCB hardware release : 1.4
31/12/1969 18:00:18.417 INFO hardwareDecode found #VOL (Volume)
31/12/1969 18:00:18.418 INFO Hard volume: 79
31/12/1969 18:00:18.419 INFO Decoder not set, ignoring volume
31/12/1969 18:00:18.471 INFO FIRMWARE VERSION : 0057
31/12/1969 18:00:18.474 INFO Custom boot sound
31/12/1969 18:00:18.476 INFO Send STATUS to PSoC
31/12/1969 18:00:20.092 INFO PSengine init
31/12/1969 18:00:20.093 INFO Init starting...
31/12/1969 18:00:20.638 INFO Audio groups initialized
31/12/1969 18:00:20.649 INFO Groups initialized
31/12/1969 18:00:20.650 INFO Init done
31/12/1969 18:00:20.651 INFO Launching initpinsound
31/12/1969 18:00:20.654 INFO Listing mix set : White_Water_Original
31/12/1969 18:00:20.658 INFO Load mix directory : White_Water_Original
31/12/1969 18:00:20.659 INFO Opening mix : /tmp/pinsound///audio/White_Water_Original
31/12/1969 18:00:20.661 INFO Loading : config.pinsound
31/12/1969 18:00:20.670 INFO Loading : jingle
31/12/1969 18:00:20.743 INFO Loading : licence.txt
31/12/1969 18:00:20.745 INFO Loading : music
31/12/1969 18:00:21.381 INFO Loading : sfx
31/12/1969 18:00:23.232 INFO Loading : single
31/12/1969 18:00:23.253 INFO Loading : voice
31/12/1969 18:00:24.342 INFO Loaded V2 sound package
31/12/1969 18:00:24.344 ERROR Cannot find or open file : /tmp/pinsound///.mix
31/12/1969 18:00:24.345 INFO Init mix bufferizing sequence
31/12/1969 18:00:24.346 INFO Init sound buffers
31/12/1969 18:00:24.348 INFO Current ducking values: jingle: 0.05 sfx: 0.9 voice: 0.85
31/12/1969 18:00:24.349 INFO Play boot jingle
31/12/1969 18:00:24.351 INFO Jingle default volume: 10%
31/12/1969 18:00:24.353 INFO Opening music file : /tmp/pinsound///audio/boot.wav
31/12/1969 18:00:24.370 INFO send READY
31/12/1969 18:00:24.371 INFO run Engine
31/12/1969 18:00:24.374 INFO Bufferizing started

You can hear some FT jingle/sfx/voice in other games. I have tested T2 sound quality in TZ with this way.

#3082 1 year ago

What about fuses F106 to F110?

#3093 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Final post here on Pinsound issues. I put the FT pinsound package on the thumb drive that was in WH2O. Worked flawlessly in FT...so the thumb drive was not the issue (as expected since I already tried multiple in WH2O). I also put the WH2O files on the drive that was in FT and nothing changed in WH2O...no sound at all when you start a game. From the errors showing in the debug log posted above and with all this testing, my conclusion that this is a a software issue with the latest firmware and the "White_Water_Original" sound package posted on pinsound.org. I haven't found anybody successfully running latest firmware with a Pinsound 1 board on WH2O. Others are successfully using the Pinsound PLUS board on WH2O.
Got an email back from Nic and Tim from pinsound. Confirmed they are both on vacation and can't help right now.

Have you ever tried to copy the files by yourself? Sometimes I had issues, the board was unable unpack the zip properly. Copy the content of zip file using computer, the entire White_Water_Original folder under the "audio" folder on the USB.
Last hint: contact Endprodukt, I am sure he has a working package/firmware combination (he is working on WH2O reorchestration).

#3103 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

is there anyway to control the speed of the flicker of the bottom lights that illuminate the topper?

Yes, there is a way, with upgraded PCB by GLM.
http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/wh2o_clb.html

1 week later
#3138 1 year ago
Quoted from Nightmare:

Does anyone have an extra boulder garden plastic mountain that they aren’t using? My plastic piece broke and I’d hate to have to buy a whole set just for one.

Here:
http://www.pinball.center/en/shop/pinball-parts-by-game/white-water/3880/-boulder-garden-mountain-for-white-water

#3149 1 year ago
WH2O mountain (resized).JPG
3 weeks later
#3232 1 year ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Can someone be so kind to post s pic for me. Thankyou

DSC_1955 (resized).JPG
1 week later
#3251 1 year ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

thelaw yes the lights just stay on pretty sure it’s the sequencer board do u k ow delts username or a link to the post? Cheers

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wh20-topper-chase-lights-work-but-then-slow-downthoughts

3 weeks later
#3310 11 months ago
Quoted from bobmorlock:

Hi WH2O fellas!
I want to change my rusty playfield hangers for new ones, and I have been wondering whether the ones I have right now are the real originals for the game. Mine measure 3"1/8 long on the hook side. Looking at Mantis I have the choice between a short or a long: https://mantispinball.com/product-category/misc/
Which ones have you got on your game ?
[quoted image]

This one:

20181023_155933 (resized).jpg
#3316 11 months ago
Quoted from Mikonos:

They look perfet! I ordered to print it at 20 inkjet slices in backlite. Result is a piece with a very solid colours because this amount of ink. Black colour is almost opaque. There is no grain, of course!
I spent/spend a lot of time restoring artworks doing my best and they are printed with the best quality.
Do you need a copy?
Regards

As we are talking about a translite, a picture is worth a thousand words.

1 week later
#3335 11 months ago
Quoted from algrande:

WHITE WATER RAD CALS CABINET ART from Highclasspinball!

Pics?

1 week later
#3361 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Hey fellow Rafters, I need your help. Would one of you mind looking at your female 15 pin connector (harness side) that connects to the transformer?
I just put a new connector on and i may have swapped two wires by accident .
If you look you should have 2 blue wires of the 15, one is a blue/greyish strip, and one blue/violet stripe. see my pic below for reference is mine correct? thanks
[quoted image]

I see 2x blue/grey on the female connector, and also on male side at transformer.
Same at other end (power driver board).
20181110_070127 (resized).jpg20181110_070440 (resized).jpg20181110_071002 (resized).jpg20181110_071217 (resized).jpg

#3362 11 months ago
Quoted from Davi:

I see 2x blue/grey on the female connector, and also on male side at transformer.
Same at other end (power driver board).
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The greyish strip is actually white (was white in 1993).
According to manual, the power driver board end is blue/white.

WH2O_7 pin (resized).JPG
#3364 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Got thanks so much guys.actually looks like it wouldn't even matter of I did swap them? They both do the same thing?

Exactly the same.

1 week later
#3418 11 months ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Its crazy but i guess it was old school tech and it cant be recreated correctly bc of the missing die....

Here is a good summary:

creditdotpinball.com/2014/05/22/mods-foiled-again-the-white-water-topper-reproduction/amp/

2 weeks later
#3511 10 months ago

End of 1992, Enterprise, Nevada.
John Youssi to Dennis Nordman:
JY: Dennis, we have to finish the artwork, production is scheduled in January.
DN: I know, I know... the only thing left is how to cover those lamps at Whirlpool.
JY: pick up the cheapest bulb condoms, I think we have tons of red in the warehouse.

2016, at Pinball Show
Question by pinhead:
"Mr. Nordman, what was your intention with red bulb condoms?"
DN: (thinking for few seconds) you know, design is very important. You have to use the right colors in order to highlight or hide certain areas. Red was a good choice, because of.....

4 weeks later
#3551 9 months ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Another picture. Note pics are from tear down...[quoted image]

Let me measure.

Capture (resized).JPG
#3552 9 months ago
Quoted from Davi:

Let me measure.[quoted image]

Diameter: 0.35 inch
Height: 0.25 inch

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-6047-1

#3565 9 months ago

What is the correct metal post/spacer part number here?
Mine is a welded repaired crap.

Thanks

20190107_225443 (resized).jpg
#3569 9 months ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Correction it should be part number 02-4250-21 and 1 5/16” long. Apparently I didn’t measure well. We need to get with the metric system!
[quoted image]

Thank you!

#3588 9 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

restoration noun
res·to·ra·tion | \ˌre-stə-ˈrā-shən \
Definition of restoration
1 : an act of restoring or the condition of being restored: such as
a : a bringing back to a former position or condition : REINSTATEMENT
the restoration of peace
b : RESTITUTION
c : a restoring to an unimpaired or improved condition
the restoration of a painting
d : the replacing of missing teeth or crowns
2 : something that is restored
especially : a representation or reconstruction of the original form (as of a fossil or a building)
See 1c.. anyway, be the negative/pessimistic critical person all you want, and it's your god give right. Just know i kinda chuckle every time I see someone post a blatant negative comment -like marvin - when they had the opportunity to say something supportive or maybe even positive... takes more muscles to frown than smile, just saying.
FYI... NEVER did I claim I RESTORED the chrome or the cabinet, maybe you should read through some of HEP's "RESTORATION" threads that use new cabinets Marvin.

Don't worry, at least you are doing something useful for this community (like your hints and ideas in your threads).
And we have to inform HEP asap, that his company is not anymore "full service pinball restoration company".

#3603 9 months ago

What is the best sideblade/pinblade/sideart for WH2O?

#3612 9 months ago
Quoted from OTRChief:

I have https://www.pingraffix.com/product-page/whitewater-pinblades which I like. I have side art or mirror blades on all of my games. Whitewater is the tightest fit and the art is easy to damage because of this.

Looks good!

#3613 9 months ago

Oh, I see... Black painted wood is the perfect design for every pin, except Funhouse, Earthshaker, etc...
Original =//= nicest, the best

1 week later
#3674 8 months ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

I need some help...I just got another Vacation Jackpot today...that’s 2 in two days. I’m pretty sure I’m not that good.
I am running ROM LH-5. Is there a bug or something in that ROM set? I ran the River Level up to 6 on first ball by focusing exclusively on doing just that, using multiballs to move rafts and river letters. I had an extra ball. When I drained, the Extra Ball was served and River was still at 6. When I drained the extra ball and ball 2 was served, I expected river to be back to 1. The inserts on the playfield showed back to start of river. But the DMD Vacation Planner had River 6 still completed. I think I had a Bonus Hold somewhere between ball 1, extra ball, and ball 2.
Does anyone know how river 6 can be held over or kept?

http://www.actionpinball.com/tech/ww.php

#3685 8 months ago
Quoted from webdiddy:

Could someone please tell me where I can find the switch for the "right jet arena"?

Number 55.

Screenshot_20190127-161745_Drive (resized).jpg
1 week later
#3731 8 months ago
Quoted from DANGERTERROR:

I think warm is the way to go. Plenty of white and light blue in the art, no need to bleach it. Warm at least works best under the rocks. One issue I’ve run into is that the yellow river inserts, even with warm leds, look too light, almost greenish. Sickly. Not gold enough. Anyone have a trick color or idea for warming up yellow inserts. I need ULTRA WARM. Or something.

Try pink. Not kidding.

#3737 8 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Hey guys have a major problem. Just put the playfield in my new cabinet and the shooter is roughly 1/2” too low?!
[quoted image]
First thought was the shooter was maybe mounted too low?
[quoted image]
Second was the wrong playfield hangers as I had to replace the old ones , I cross referenced with my creature assuming they use the same size.
[quoted image]
The playfield clearly looks to high at this end
[quoted image]
I’m totally lost love any help please

As I remember, we need longer hangers:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/67#post-4649433

#3752 8 months ago
Quoted from guido:

I cannot see the waterfall effect on my topper. Could the lights not be working the way they are supposed to do?

Sequence is completely wrong.
This is the right operation:

#3761 8 months ago
Quoted from guido:

I'm using 194 bulbs. So the bulbs shouldn't be the problem since the manual says that those bulbs are the correct ones.[quoted image]

Bulbs are OK.
Check your chase light board, resolder suspicious connections.
If all else fails, you can buy aftermarket boards, like this:
https://rocklandpinball.com/product/white-water-chase-lightboard-15761-2/

#3773 8 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

There was a white water topper for sale for 2 hours earlier today.
Anyone know what it went for?

Actually 2... 2nd was $275.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-topper-and-light-assembly

2 months later
#4003 5 months ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

Thanks! I figured I would email Larry@starship, he responded just now 6 - 8 weeks. I'm just glad he is making more, I wont be tearing this thing down for a rebuild for at least a few months or so. Just going to enjoy it as is for now.

I do it every 3 months since February, 2018 (I guess I am not the only one). Answer is always the same: 2-3 months.
I hope they will make it this year.

1 month later
#4068 4 months ago

Restoration is in progress

Screenshot_20190524-174008_Gallery (resized).jpg20190524_174115 (resized).jpg
#4071 4 months ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

That looks good Peter is that a whole new transformer or has it been rebuilt?

Thanks. It's the original, 26 years old transformer. Cleaned, painted and polished by me.

2 months later
#4154 83 days ago

What is the correct flipper coil setup?

According to manual:
Left: 15411, orange
Lower right: 11629, blue
Upper right: 11629, blue

According to parts list:
Left: 15411, orange
Lower right: 11629, blue
Upper right: 11630, red

#4159 82 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Hey Peter the parts list is technically correct. However, I personally do not like that coil on the left flipper and I changed mine to a 11629. Feels much better imo and seems to make disaster drop ramp more fluid. I have had zero issues with it, no plastics cracking or anything negative at all.

Thanks for this info.

#4181 76 days ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

My bad, thought I seen him post that they were ready.

Almost, waiting for paint process.

2 weeks later
#4245 61 days ago
Quoted from MikeSinMD:

$227 with tax and shipping! Ouch!!!

$370 with shipping and tax. No comment.

#4247 61 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Ok Peter I was bitching about $227 but you definitely have something to bitch about. $370 Ouch!!

I have to wait for European stock. Hopefully price won't that crazy.

#4288 56 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

I am in real need of this bigfoot opto bracket. Does anyone have a spare or maybe have one on a parts machine that they could let go of? If you have this part please send me a pm. Thanks[quoted image]

What about 3D print? This part holds optos only, no ball contact normally.

#4291 56 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Hey Peter I would go that route except i'm missing the part completely so have no way to replicate it.

If all else fails, let me know, I can do the design quickly.

#4298 54 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Well damn that sucks. Does anyone else have one of these brackets they would be willing to get rid of?

Mission completed! The factory bracket is not ideal (need to bend the legs), this version is improved.
Tested on a spare mini playfield with ball guides and optos.

20190823_233647 (resized).jpg20190823_233659 (resized).jpg20190823_233712 (resized).jpg20190823_233728 (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
#4355 38 days ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

It's a perfect fit Peter![quoted image]

It was not easy at first, the original bracket doesn't fit as it is, it has a bent leg, otherwise doesn't match with playfield holes. So if I copy the metal bracket, a bent plastic is required. Yours is perfect, with right angle.
I am glad it works

3 weeks later
#4407 12 days ago

Boulder set has been arrived. While I appreciate the effort, primary color is far away from original color, secondary color is way far away, looks like a chocolate mountain... Am I the only one who expect a nice colors for this money? And no, I don't believe that the reference set was soooooo dark at Starship Fantasy, I have never seen an original dark set like this.

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