White Water
Williams, 1993You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider coolcatpinball.
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Hello owners! I've been wanting a WH2O for a long while now, and I've finally sold a game or two to raise funds. I'm looking for a machine if anyone is considering selling. I just placed a wanted ad on the market and hope to officially be a member soon. Hit me up if you might be interested. Thanks!!
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Hello owners! I've been wanting a WH2O for a long while now, and I've finally sold a game or two to raise funds. I'm looking for a machine if anyone is considering selling. I just placed a wanted ad on the market and hope to officially be a member soon. Hit me up if you might be interested. Thanks!!
My wanted ad paid off. Finally in the club! Scored this beauty that wasn't listed for sale on pinside. @Pinkitten, this is getting a bit spooky man....lol. Machine came with pearl white 3 stage automotive painted armor. These are just 2 pics the seller sent me. I'll post some better pics once I have her set up and running.
682627032 (resized).jpg682627041 (resized).jpgGetting my WH2O set up. I have it at roughly 6.5° and pretty level side to side. Is it normal for this title to be so damn airball crazy?! It's insanity! I've never witnessed so many airballs bouncing off of targets every damn where. If you don't make your shot, airball. Doesn't matter if the ball hits a stand-up, a post, or something else, it's an airball. This can't be normal. I'm wondering if the flipper coils have been swapped out to some crazy strong value. Any ideas??
Looks like FL-11629 blue coils were stock, and according to Pinballlife.com charts, that's the strongest ones. They seem so overpowered.
I'll double check the coils this evening. I do believe there are actually different value coils on it now. I'm just floored and concerned at how often the ball goes airborne. Last night, my daughter hit one of the green stand up targets just right, and the ball flew back almost all the way to the right flipper!! Ball bounced off the playfield, over the flipper and down the drain. Again, I gotta think this isn't normal
Had a second to look. My coils are just like Lloyd suggested:
Left FL-15411
Right FL-11629
Upper FL 11630
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:I'll double check the coils this evening. I do believe there are actually different value coils on it now. I'm just floored and concerned at how often the ball goes airborne. Last night, my daughter hit one of the green stand up targets just right, and the ball flew back almost all the way to the right flipper!! Ball bounced off the playfield, over the flipper and down the drain. Again, I gotta think this isn't normal
Had a second to look. My coils are just like Lloyd suggested:
Left FL-15411
Right FL-11629
Upper FL 11630
I guess I'm going to try FL-11630 coils on the lower flippers. I feel like they should be plenty strong enough. Apparently no one else has this airball issue?
Quoted from zene10:Longshot- verify the position of your rubbers on the flippers themselves and make sure they are seated correctly. Also make sure your bat has the proper gap setting. If the flipper is too high/low and/or rubbers are too high/low it will affect the ball trajectory. I'm not a golfer but the analogy would driver vs iron or wedge.
I'll be Rebuilding the flippers this weekend including new coils. I'll be sure and pay close attention to all those details. Thanks 
Quoted from nerdygrrl:Is te PF original or has it been cleared? Since I installed a cleared/restored PF into my MM, it's been airball madness.
Cleared original. I hope that's not the cause of it. My flipper parts should arrive today. Hopefully rebuild this weekend, and I'll report back. Going with 11630 coils on all 3 flippers.
Reporting back. Flipper coils have been changed to 11630s on the lower flippers. (11630 is stock on the upper). This is the most commonly used coil on williams machines according to Pinballlife.com. Medium strength. Airballs have been GREATLY reduced, and the ball has plenty of zip to make all the shots with zero issues. I no longer feel like I'm going to break shit by playing my game. A solid hit on the green stand ups will still yield a bounce, but nothing like before. So, if you're having issues, consider the lower strength coils.
Quoted from daveyvandy:Got the right flipper springs in there?
Coil stops and coil sleeves look good?
Maybe needs a flipper rebuild?
Agreed. Do a flipper rebuild. Sleeves, coil stops, etc. It's cheap and probably needed anyway. Also have a good look at the wires soldered to the 3 lugs. Make sure they aren't frayed or needing fresh solder.
Quoted from PinballGalore:I’ve already ordered rebuild kits and waiting for them to arrive but it seems like there’s
More to it. Will know more once they’re replaced. Thanks!
Is it all 3 flippers that are weak? Or just 1?
Edit: I see it's all 3 from your original post. Yeah, you may have a voltage issue going on.
Quoted from PinballGalore:yea that’s the thin yea that’s the thing all three are same, not like one is stronger or weaker than the other…. Going to rebuild all three anyway but it seems like there’s more to it than meets the eye
I agree. Unfortunately, if the game resets constantly without the "no more reset" daughterboard, you probably have voltage issues and need the boards looked at or worked on. That's most likely what's happening with the flippers.
Quoted from Paseb:For sale:
Real color dmd lcd
Rafting mods
Custom L6 rom
Blue shooter rod
Ramps were replaced
Additionnal boulders mods
Green targets protector for lock ball
New topper dome
New comet sunlight LED
New LED ocd board
New Bigfoot spotlight and hot foot mods
New brian allen translite artblade and sidearts (original translite included)
New decals uninstalled/included
Cabinet is in good condition with minimal wear but there is lock bar holes in front.
New kodak mod
New bigfoot yellow sign
No playfield planking(rare for a whitewater)
Plays like a gem
I can ship at your expense
Asking 8500$ usd
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Edit: Nevermind
Quoted from Zartan:Wow! Nice machine!
Thanks! I bought it pretty much like you see it. I did however change out many of the LEDs, gave it clear Titan rubbers, changed flipper coils, and gave it a good deep cleaning.
Quoted from jawjaw:CoolCatPinball - Game looks great! I would put bulb condoms or something over the screw heads holding the star posts over the shooter lane. They will scratch the top of the backbox when you rest the pf up. I didn't realize this until it was too late. Your games looks really nice so I highly recommend protecting it.
Absolutely! I keep forgetting to do that. I've been putting a rag over them when I raise the playfield, but that's a pain. I need to get it handled.
Quoted from EEE:I believe that there is something not quite right with my playfield slides and the action needed to tilt the playfield all the way back to rest against the back box.
I recall that the process of pulling the playfield forward onto its two supports was more smooth on the WH2O we owned five years ago.
The angle used to then move it from its playfield support position and more forward onto the spring loaded catch didn’t seem too steep either. On this one it requires the playfield to be tilted upwards more than 60 degrees and then dragged forward in order to catch the spring loaded arm, followed by a final heave to get it to catch the pivot.
All of the important pieces are present and don’t appear to be bent out of shape.
Does the angle in the attached not-so-great picture match what the rest of you find is required?
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Definitely something amiss. I know it's a tough angle, but can you get any pics and post here?
Quoted from TheOnlyest:Iv'e been watching this convo for a couple days... I have no clue what you guys are talking about with this 20v-24v backbox panel flasher bulb nonsense.... But I think you guys are trippin!! I've been a pinball tech for over 30 years, and I don't know of any 20v wedge flasher bulbs in ANY insert panel! I have had good-ol standard 12v 906 LED flashers in my WH20 for over a year and they work just fine... Coincidentally, same thing in my other 11 pins for about 7 years, I don't thing i've ever even had one fail!
I run standard 12v LED flashers from Comet in my backbox. No issues at all. I also have not ever run across any 20v bulbs in any of my machines.
Quoted from TheOnlyest:There are 24v 1251 flasher bulbs in early system 11 games, but they are bayonet type bulbs and only used under playfields and in beacons (High Speed, F14, etc).
Quoted from billsfanmd:Quick question on the small RIVER pcb under pf. My R bulb sometimes will not stay lit when it should. I swapped other bulbs and sockets and its def something on the board..Don't see the board in the manual. THinking I need to reflow solder on connector or any other ideas. Thx!
The bottom R on mine also goes out. My issue is the where the wire that feeds that socket is seated in the plastic connector. I just havnt fixed it yet.
Light grey threaded bolt protectors from Ace Hardware. Removed the rubber ring and slid these over the post. They actually fit perfect and lock into the groove where the rubber ring would be. They're thicker and more durable than bulb condoms.
20221018_183926 (resized).jpg20221018_183944 (resized).jpgQuoted from radium:If anyone is tearing down their playfield soon and wants to make an easy $100, message me
I'm not tearing one down soon, but I did recently (topside). I don't care about the 100 bucks. What's up? If I can help a fellow pinsider out, I will. Or PM me if you prefer.
Quoted from Pinoffski:Going to re-decal the cab this weekend i hope (pending weather)
any tips would be helpfull please.
is it better to do it dry or wet ?
wife is going to help me and she thinks wet is the better option as you can move it
was going to do the front first to line up the start button
My 2 cents worth:
First, like PinKitten said, sand, fill holes and imperfections, sand some more. Paint your base color.
Once that's done, I like to position the decals and secure w painters tape on one half. Lift the half without tape and peel off the backing. Then take a wide putty knife with cloth over the end and carefully, gently press the decal into place. Start in middle, work outwards to eliminate air bubbles. Remove painters tape from second half and repeat. I do this dry, no sprays necessary. I too have only done a handful, but this method is easy enough and looks great.
Quoted from woody76:I just scored a pretty nice original topper if someone is looking. Not gonna be cheap.
Someone was offering $1500 not too long in the thread. Maybe a page or 2 back. I almost considered it.
I believe I read somewhere that the bulbs on top of the backbox (the ones that light the topper) were 12v as opposed to typical 6v GI type bulbs. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I could pull the machine out, remove the dome and test with a multimeter, but I figured I'd ask first.
I read so many posts about NOT using 12v LEDs on the topper, but I just absolutely hated that yellow glow from the topper. So, I ordered a new dome and took a gamble on some cool white LEDs from Amazon thinking, it's worth a shot. I'm actually very impressed with the results. The waterfall effects look just as good or even better than before. I'm happy. Looks better in person.
Quoted from yzfguy:I hate LEDs in this topper. Too abrupt, and not a soft transition to make the flowing effect.
That's what I read, and I respect that. BUT, I'm telling you, the flowing effect is still there. I didn't lose any effect. Just my personal experience.
Quoted from GRB1959:No LED's for me in the topper. I tried some about 12-13 years ago and it significantly reduced the waterfall effect. The prior topper video is from 2018 so I created another video a few minutes ago and it is posted in this reply.
I am taking the video from the front of the pinball machine holding the camera up high so it captures the entirely of the topper lights and the waterfall effect.
Gord
That's some nice white 194 incandescents there. I like it! Any idea of the brand or model #? Most all 194 incandescents I find are that awful yellowish color. I switched to LEDs just because I couldn't find a nice white incandescent.
Quoted from EEE:I had a couple of translucent yellow stand up targets in the parts bin and I’m considering swapping them in place of the original white ones for Bigfoot Hotfoot.
Any thoughts on whether this look good, better or horrible? Pictures aren’t great and make the area look dark.
If they stay I will add some illumination behind them and I might swap out the yellow post sleeves for blue or white or ?
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I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Would definitely look better with some back lighting.
Quoted from beltking:Mirco right? How were the blues? Heard they were off from original. I’m thinking of doing the mirror rad cals but those look nice.
I have never seen the Whitewater RadCals in person, but, if you need them, then chances are the blue color on your originals is faded out anyway. Once you install the RadCals, even if the blue isn't exact to original, it will look 1000% better and no one will ever say "man, looks good, but the blue is a gradient or 2 off from original". I'm just being blunt and practical, but I say, if your game needs decals anyway, RadCals are a nice option. I have installed them on a BSD which is notorious for fading, and the Radcals look awesome! If you've been on the fence about installing some, go for it! I think you'll like them
Quoted from beltking:Yeah did my Indiana Jones and looks amazing. Here is pic of mirror version. Little more money.
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Then you've dealt with them before. I say go for it! I think they look amazing.
Quoted from nocreditdot:It looks amazing. I have done my fair share of stencil cabinet work on older games. I have never used radcals. You didn't have to sand down and fill the cabinet first?
With Radcals, you only need to remove hardware, buttons, etc from cab (rails can stay on), make sure there are no raised areas on the cab. Give it a good thorough cleaning, and apply the RadCals. Then, Use a dremel tool to cut out for any bolt holes, start button, etc... and reassemble everything. The radcals are thick and rigid enough that small holes, dents, and imperfections don't need filling. It's far easier than decals or stencils.
Quoted from radium:What’s the value of a nice WH2O with a treasure cove topper? Game plays 100%, nice and clean, just missing it’s original foil topper.
I'd say between 7k and 9k depending on several condition factors. The original topper missing is gonna kill you on this title. So many people love it!
Quoted from MiniPinHead:Does anyone substitute the red Whirlpool mini dome (# 03-8662-9) with a blue one (# 03-8662-10)? I'm just wondering if the red affect is necessary for conveying something (e.g., sucked down the Whirlpool)?
Also, I believe I've seen people do half blue sleeves (# 03-8063-1) and half red sleeves (# 03-8063-4), or all blue, for the actual Whirlpool 6-light PCB lamps, but am wondering again if red is necessary at all?
Does anyone use an LED bulb for these and forgo the caps?
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I left the flasher dome stock, but replaced the 6 whirlpool lights with ice blue LEDs. It's a whirlpool, not a portal spiraling down to Hell (which we all know is represented by red) 
I've never noticed an instance where they actually needed to be red. I could be wrong though.
Quoted from Kingjowjow:**WHITE WATER LEDs Rubbers Question**
LEDS:
I'm planning on changing the lighting and Rubbers in my WH2O and was hoping I could get some feedback on few questions I had.
I want to do the bottom half Cool White the top this greenish blue color, curious as to if the one color under the back mountains I have in the photo is the Teal (Cyan) from comet?
For the left and right mountains, I've I really like how the light up well, is it best to use cool white in them to get that bright mountain look or color match with orange. I'm thinking a 5SMD Insane Bright would look good in them, but not sure what would give the best effect. Is there much difference between 8SMD Flashers vs 5SM Insane Brights?
My WH2O was previously routed and I'm still changing a bunch of stuff on it, but it came with this Old LED strip that looks faded. I've seen the back mountain light kit, but was wondering if replacing this LED strip with a new cool white one if it will give the same effect shown in the picture below, rather than getting the mountain lighting kit. Also, not sure if putting a LED strip in the mountains will was out the cyan effect I’m going for in the back of the playfield.
I've read mixed opinions on color matching the inserts, but the more positive ones I've read are saying color matching looks great and that cool white can wash out the tint a bit. Was thinking 4SMD Bulbs for larger inserts and 2SM for the rest.
Not sure if its overkill. but has anyone ever used 4x4 Tower and star posts for their sling lighting? Faceted Bulbs looked to a cool effect, but I don’t have any experiences with them.
I have not seen to many WH2O with a trough light strip, I feel like a cool white would help brighten up the bottom area between the flippers.
Also, is it not necessary to use 1SMD Non-Ghosting Bulbs with the LH-6 ROM? I've heard that the ROM fixes the issue with flickering and
Rubbers:
I'm shooting to go for all white rubbers with blue flipper rubbers. On the Titan Rubber Kit database, it's said that the WH2O manual is actually incorrect and that this is the right amount of rubbers to have if you don't want extras. The stock sling diameter is 2" ID. The 2 1/4" rings are for the slings. If you buy the 2" ID rings for the slings, they tend to break really easy. The little extra room gives you a considerable amount of extra life.
Post Sleeves - Quantity - 12
Rubber Rings - 2 1/4 Inch Quantity - 2
Rubber Rings - 2 Inch Quantity - 1
Rubber Rings - 7/16 Inch Quantity - 1
Rubber Rings - 5/16 Inch Quantity - 4
Rubber Rings - 3/4 Inch Quantity - 1
Rubber Rings - 1 Inch Quantity - 1
Rubber Rings - 1 1/4 Inch Quantity - 1
Rubber Rings - 1 1/2 Quantity - 2
Rubber Rings - Flipper Standard
https://www.titanpinball.com/kits/index.php/browse/byGame/5517
If anyone has any feedback or thoughts on this it's very much apprecaited![quoted image]
Translucent Titans look amazing on White water. The have a frosted look, and allow the lighting to shine through. My 2 cents.
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Knoxville, TN