White Water
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Quoted from aeneas:Yes, I make them. There's another thread here with more information.
Price is 50 euro each.
I'm out at the moment but will make a new batch soon.. and it's really one of the last batches then as the mold is starting to wear out too much..
Sweet! Joining the club this week so I'll be in touch!
It's home! I couldn't get it into the basement so I set it up in the garage for now. Played a couple games and noticed the VUK was randomly firing. The repetition of the sound and the VUK activating pretty much non-stop made the game unplayable for me. The VUK was in my hands 5 minutes later. LOL! That must be a new record for me! Is the VUK misfiring, or randomly firing, a common malfunction on this game? I'm assuming it's the opto's, but I really haven't started troubleshooting.
Quoted from mot:The opto switch isn't working. When the light isn't working (or something similar), the game thinks there's a ball in there and tries to kick it out.
If the wires going to both sides of the opto look good, the most likely problem is that the LED emitter is burnt out. Common problem, cheap and easy fix.
Read up on how optos work and how to test them here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches
Great reply! Thanks!
Quoted from fiberdude120:Looking at your picture I would bet the optos just need cleaning.
Yeah, the pin definitely needs a tidy up! I think you're right. The optos are shiny purple and I'm getting 12V out of all the transmitters.
Does anyone have any experience replacing the hair on bigfoot? Mine is missing the fur on the back of his head. I was thinking of buying a cheap dollar store stuffed animal and trying to match the fur and colour as best I could.
I'm on the waiting list at Bay Area Amusements, and it seems everyone else is out of stock.
Quoted from dsuperbee:Find something that matches close.
Removed old hair. Use that to make a template on the new hair (or some paper for a pattern.) Cut out new hair. Rubber/contact cement to head. Done.
There is no hair to make a template. I'd have to use the back of his head and guess.
Is there anyone that wants to sell an old one that might have redone theirs to go white? Or simply take a photo of it off the head so that I can see the proper shape?
Hi guys! So I finally put my VUK back together. I completely stripped it, cleaned it and then reflowed the solder on the opto boards which I had proven already work (see my earlier posts).
So I turned on the game. I press START. I hear the sound bite for the VUK and it fires. Then the sound bite for the VUK sounds again and it fires. So something is still messed up.
Do I go into switch test mode now? Anyone ever had a similar issue to this?
[EDIT] I just re-read the pinwiki. Since the transmitters all seem to work I'll try this out tomorrow on the receivers;
"The "receiving side" of an opto pair, which should be housed in a black plastic frame, can be tested with just about any strong incandescent flashlight. Note that an LED flashlight does not typically work too well for this test. Place the game in switch test. Block the sending opto that would normally illuminate the receiver under test. Shine your bright incandescent flashlight on the reciever opto. The switch state as shown on the display should change."
Quoted from yzfguy:had this issue and if i remember correctly, it was the plastic end of the kickout (where it makes contact with the ball) had broken off. This made the plunger too short and it would still kick the ball out, but messed with the opto. I replaced the plunger and all good.
You mean the ball popper cup? Mine has three of the four fins broken off. I have a new one on order. I don't see how this would mess with the opto.
Quoted from mot:It's always time for switch test mode! This is an opto switch so it should indicate that the switch is closed when the light from the emitter can be seen, and open when it's not (i.e. when there's a ball in the VUK). You'll probably see that it is open, which is incorrect. That would explain why the game thinks there's a ball there which it's trying to kick out.
While you're in switch test mode, test the other optos and a few other switches in the same row and column.
You might find this helpful:
wh20-switch-matrix.PNG
Thanks! I plan on testing out the optos in the VUK tomorrow night. Is it possible the receiver is weak? It's misfiring, but it is random, not constant.
Quoted from mot:It's possible. I would think any of the three ball lock optos could cause the VUK to kick when they think there's a ball there. Switch test mode is the only real way to see what's going on.
Did you clean all three of those ball lock optos?
Yep. I tested and cleaned the bejesus out of them all. They sparkle in the sun now! I'll try the switch test tonight.
Quoted from yzfguy:Yes, ball popper cup. I have no idea how or why, but that was my fix
I'll take the one off the gold mine VUK and put it onto the VUK I'm having problems with. I will report back tonight.
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:There were some old threads on RGP about this. I believe optos were replaced and that fixed it.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.games.pinball/2009-06/msg13370.html
Heres one from pinside, failed solder joint
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wh2o-issue?responsive=0
These threads describe exactly what is occurring with mine. The first one is more closely related that the second, but yes a random firing and "BALL 3 LOCKED" has appeared on the DMD. I have an order in for new optos. I'll try the switch test tonight, and test out the transmitters.
Well it's not the ball popper cup. I swapped it with the one from the lost mine. No change.
For reference, when I turn the game on, the upper PF VUK fires twice slowly. Is this normal?
Oh, and I did a TEST... looks like I have a series of switches not working. 34, 44, 54, and 74 reported errors. This shouldn't be too difficult to fix as it's probably all related to one problem. 
On to switch test mode...
...uh, what switch number is it?
Quoted from Gorgonzola:No, it shouldn't fire when you turn the game on.
Big Foot turns forwards and backwards however. Does that happen on yours?
Yes this happens on mine. Thanks. I've never owned a WH2O so I wasn't sure what the start up sequence was like.
Quoted from bballfan:Try reseating the small ribbon cable that connects the power board to the cpu.
Before I do this, what do you think it will correct?
I put the game into switch edge test mode. Then I covered up the optos in the VUK. 63 registered, 65 registered, but 64 did not. Looks like a bad opto. I don't have any spares so I'll try reflowing the solder on the receiver. The transmitter looks fine as I can see the purple glow through my phone camera.
Since I didn't have any receiver optos I borrowed one from the subway under the whirlpool and swapped out the one in my upper PF VUK. Then I repeated the switch edge test. Switch 63 made an audible "bing" when I covered up the receiver. Switch 65 also made an audible "bing". But when I cover up switch 64, there was no audible "bing".
So I busted my DMM again. 12VDC+ on each of the receiver test points. I cover the receiver up and voltage drops to 0. The opto pair that makes up switch 64 seems to be working properly. Hmm...
So I go into Single Switch Test. 63 is closed, 64 is open, 65 is closed. 63 and 65 change to open when I cover the optos up. 64 never changes. Transmitter opto???
What does "Switch Levels" do?
Quoted from mot:You need to examine the wiring at each of the switches on row 4 of the switch matrix. There's probably a broken wire at one of them.
Refer to the manual or the switch matrix I posted here.
I think you are right. It can't be a coincidence that I'm seeing TEST errors on 34, 44, 54 and 74. These are all in the same matrix row. The opto I'm having problems with is 64 so that fit's nicely into the pattern as well since it's in the same matrix row too (34, 44, 54, 64, 74).
Time to start tracing wires!
VDC on the "I" (switch 34) only measures in at 7VDC. The other letters in RIVER are measuring in at 12VDC. I'm losing 5VDC somewhere...
Quoted from mot:Try disconnecting the opto board under the playfield and retesting those row 4 switches.
The 7-opto board? Is this what you mean? I disconnected this. The row 4 switches are still a no go.
Update...
Since the TEST reported issues with pretty much every switch in row 4, I decided to look at the CPU connector. According to the switch matrix the white/yellow wire connects to J209-4. I figure I might as well start at the start right? So I take a look at the CPU board only to discover it's an aftermarket board by Rottendog. The molex connector to J209-4 is a hack. I pull the brown molex connector off the board only to have the orange wire (J209-9) break in my hands. J209-9 controls row 8 so I'm guessing this row is out now too. Great...
Ignoring the recently broken orange wire I push forward with what I was originally troubleshooting. I measure 12VDC off the Rottendog board. Good. So I connect the hack back up and measure the voltage off the back of the brown molex connector. 12VDC there too. Good. About 4 inches into the cable run there is a break in the line that has been soldered together and shrink wrapped. This could be the issue, but I don't have any molex pins so I can't properly re-terminate the connector and properly heat shrink it again so I decide to ignore this for now and continue down the line. If I don't have 12VDC at the next solder point then I know it's a break in the line 4 inches off the CPU.
The white/yellow wire travels from the CPU down under the PF and over to the 7 opto board on the underside of the PF (right side). I measure voltage here: +/- 5VDC.
This leads me to believe there is a break under that shrink wrap close to the CPU.
Guys the connector at J209 is crap. Another wire broke off in my hands and I barely touched it. This connector drives most of the switches so I need to fix it properly. Unfortunately finding molex pins in Ottawa is like finding Jimmy Hoffa.
I'll probably have to order the crimp pins and connectors from the States. Does anyone know the proper size I need? Great Plains has the connectors, but I'm not 100% what I'm ordering;
I've very happy to report that I have solved the issues on my WH2O. New crimp pins onto the Rottendog MPU board and row 4 is working perfectly again! I am soooo friggin' happy! It is so nice to fix something like this. This was especially gratifying as the problem brought me right back to the connectors on the PCB in the backbox.
Put up my initials 3 times tonight! Top score was just over 193,000,000. I was smiling the entire time! 
I'm going to keep playing it to get a real feel for the game, then I'm going to shop the hell out of this thing! Thanks for all the help from everyone in this thread!
Does anyone have an LED count handy for WH2O? I'm looking for GI, Flashers, and Inserts (preferably with the colour of the insert). Backbox would be a bonus.
Thank you!
Tim
[EDIT] Found it on page 3 of this thread (or thereabouts).
[EDIT2] BTW, my wife pointed out this little fact to me; With the exception of the woman in the bikini, every person on the translite including the dog is wearing a life jacket. 
Has anyone tried Art's LED rings under the pop bumper boulders? I was thinking of giving this a try.
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:That's a great game! No ball-save and no hold bonus, on L-5.
Thanks! I'm still smiling!
To be honest, I don't find getting the bonus on L-5 that bad especially after playing it for a bit. I don't have any plans to upgrade to 6. I'm going to leave it this way as I like the additional challenge. I don't go out of my way to complete the bonus, but the inlanes help quit a bit with spotting you letters. I'm usually up to Class III before I know it and then once I hit Class V I give it a little more attention. Nothing worse than only being a couple letters away from finish it and draining.
I find the most difficult shots to be the bounceback, hotfoot, and extra ball (this one is deadly). Those and the damn boulder hazard. For some reason my kid can get the Secret Passage every game, sometimes 2 or 3 times in a row. I can't find the sweet spot for that one, but he has it nailed.
Quoted from Plumonium:Can I buy the head only decals or need to buy the whole set?
I've only ever seen them as a set. Maybe you can go halves with someone here?
Does anyone know the part number for the plumb bob assembly? In the manual it shows 20-6502-A, but that's just the plumb bob without the wire and thumb screw. I need the proper wire and thumb screw as well. I have the rest of the tilt assembly.
Thanks!
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:What I did was upgraded to LH-6 but turned off the ball save so that it operates just like L-5 (except that with L-6 the hold bonus feature actually works.) I also open up the right outlane all the way and make sure my Lost Mine kickout isn't a gimmie. White Water is a bitch when you set it up hard.
I just finished doing a hell of cleaning job on mine (stripped the entire top-side of the playfield) and played a practice game with the glass off and lockbar off to make sure everything still worked. I ended up getting the Vacation Jackpot and hitting 900,000,000 or so. I love this game when its freshly waxed and playing fast!
I don't mind that the hold bonus feature doesn't work. When you first start playing WH2O you think "What?! That's insane" but after playing for a bit getting Class VI really isn't that difficult. I do see your point though, but I like it this way - at least for now.
I actually hit my second Vacation Jackpot last night. My score wasn't as high this time, only in the 700,000,000 range but the game last well past the Vacation Jackpot. I ended up getting Class IV and a bunch of Whirlpool modes finished. This was my second only VJ, and I did it the same way - finished the Bonus, finished the Boulder area, finished Wet Willy's and then triggered Vacation Jackpot with Multiball. Very cool doing it this way as you get the VJ show and then the game goes right into multiball mode. Super exciting!
I still need those plumb bob part numbers guys! (see post #1320)
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-6231
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4406-01120-00
The wire is out of stock but the part number is there.
Sweet! Thanks!
Quoted from woody76:What is correct shooter spring? 10-148-1 silver or 10-148-4 green? I have heard both. My White Water on a full plunge shoots the ball back to lower playfield. I played another White Water this weekend and on a full plunge the ball dropped right onto the upper playfield for whirlpool or insanity falls shot. How is it supposed to be?
Silver.
Quoted from Archytas:I was thinking of doing LED's in the topper but looking at another post this appears to be a no-go as LED's burn out due to it requiring special bulbs, are there any LED kits for the topper out there I can get hold of?
Thanks!
Don't bother. You'll lose the shimmering effect with LED bulbs. Stick with the incandescents. You can buy them easily from Digi key for .90 each.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/194/CM194-ND/4175854
Two questions for you guys about White Water gameplay.
1) When I start Whirlpool Challenge, it makes sense to me that the Whirlpool light should be lit, but it isn't.
2) When I start Multiball, it makes sense to me that the Insanity Falls light should be lit, but it isn't.
I'm talking about the two lights in the upper PF sign.
Are either of these supposed to light when these modes are active?
Quoted from Fifty:Two questions for you guys about White Water gameplay.
1) When I start Whirlpool Challenge, it makes sense to me that the Whirlpool light should be lit, but it isn't.
2) When I start Multiball, it makes sense to me that the Insanity Falls light should be lit, but it isn't.
I'm talking about the two lights in the upper PF sign.
Are either of these supposed to light when these modes are active?
So based off a PAPA video, neither of these lights are active in either mode. Seems odd to me, but whatever.
New question, I was playing last night and I noticed the Whirlpool Challenge sound bleeding into the regular music. Whirlpool Challenge was already completed and I was just playing normally when the sound switched back to the Whirlpool Challenge music. It corrected itself soon afterwards but I was wondering what causes this. Any ideas?
Does anyone have the bear mod? I bought the bear locally for under $20. I just need to fabricate a bracket and mount it now. I want to see what the bracket looks like underneath. Please post or PM me with a pic. Thanks very much!
Quoted from seshpilot:What's the bear mod? LOVE this game. Have owned for a year and still haven't beat it.
http://www.pinballdecals.com/WH20_BearPage.html
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:I went to Micheal's (where I bought the bear) and picked up a metal offset bracket (like so http://www.michaels.com/10418197.html ) (I can't remember the exact height I bought). Attach one end of that bracket to the Spine Chiller ramp gate bracket (right side). Attach the other end of the bracket to the bear (I put a small woodscrew through the bear's foot). Then, for good measure, take some double-sided foam tape, cut out a piece the size of the bear's rear foot, and then stick the rear foot to the flat top of the Spine Chiller gate bracket. Mine has been going strong like this for years.
Thanks for the link. Michael's up in Canada is night and day when compared to the USA. It's more of a craft store up here with a framing section, but at least I know what to look for now.
Wouldn't be the left side of the Spine Chiller ramp (from player's perspective)? Which foot did you put the screw into? I'm guessing the rear most foot, but if your's is still going strong I would like to duplicate what you have exactly.
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:Pictures of my machine are on page 2 of this thread and you can check out how I have it set up there. I have my bear set so he's kind of looking over the No Way Out lane.
Thanks. I'll check it out.
Another issue that has reared it's head on my WH2O has to do with the sound. I'll be playing a regular game and hit a target and the Whirlpool Challenge music will start playing. If I lock a ball or start another mode the music will switch back. It's very random. Sound ROM maybe???
Quoted from judremy:Sounds like a loose/dying opto or maybe a bad diode that is causing an opto to trigger. Maybe the one in the bottom of the whirlpool subway at the entry side?
I don't think it's this. I tested this opto, and checked it with my phone camera. All good. It is completely random making it difficult to troubleshoot.
I brought this up earlier, and created an entirely new thread on the subject (which has 0 views). Hoping some White Water fans here can help me with troubleshooting. This is what is happening;
I've been having an issue with the music on my WH2O. It happens randomly. I have not been able to reproduce it. There are two things happening, but I believe that both things are related to the same problem...
1) Pin is on. Attract sounds are OFF. It will stay quiet for about 10 minutes (give or take) then all of a sudden music begins to play. It's the Whirlpool Challenge music. It comes on and it doesn't ever turn off. It will only stop if I turn off/on the pin or start a game.
2) I'll be playing the pin. Sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes for 2 hours. All of a sudden the Whirlpool Challenge music will start even if I'm not in that mode. It will continue until another sound effect is triggered, or I drain.
Where do I start?
Quoted from PjM:Do you have a new PinSound board in it or Williams ?
It is a Williams board.
I turned the pin on tonight. It's been on for about 2 hours. The music hasn't started up even once. Like I said, random issue.
Caps look fine. I was talking to a buddy on PRev and he is leaning towards it being a stray data call from the MPU. Which makes sense. The pin is not playing the wrong sounds, it's just playing them at the wrong time. When playing, if I trigger another sound effect the problem will correct itself.
Since it's happening in attract mode with attract sounds set to OFF it seems like something is sneaking off the MPU and triggering the music.
Still working on my sound issue, but had another question for you guys.
The upper PF doesn't use a Flipptronic flipper. Can it? Should it?
I want to place an order to rebuild my flippers and would like to know if I can switch it to Flipptronic or if it isn't recommended due to space limitations or some other reason.
Thanks!
Quoted from dsuperbee:Do you mean the upgraded flipper return spring that doesn't use the conical spring? Whitewater is already a fliptronic game. FWIW I would upgrade the spring.
My upper uses a conical spring. In the manual the stock flipper also uses a conical spring.
Can it be upgraded to flipptronic?
Quoted from yzfguy:Terry at pinballlife sells the whole assembly for the upper. Just pop out the old and in with the new, snappy flipper.
I can buy the plunger and link for $6. The rest of it is fine.
Quoted from Gorgonzola:The modern flipper assembly does fit. You just have to be careful with the alignment so that it doesn't catch on the metal ball guide below. See my post below from a previous thread for info and a photo of what to look out for:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reason-for-wrong-flipper-parts-on-wh20#post-2600607
Thanks. I favorited that thread as I'm just about to redo the flippers on mine.
Quoted from Cheese_WizardPQ:Mirror blades are incredible with this GI. Best mod IMO
image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg
I like how you have your bear mounted. Care to share on how you did this?
What I can't figure out is that there are no original Bigfoots out there for resale. I figure one of the white-out White Water pin owners out there would want to sell theirs to me. 
Quoted from dsuperbee:Do you need the entire assy, or just the head/arms/hair? The head and arms are available at a lot of suppliers, and the hair can be found at most any fabric place. Even the complete assy pops up every now and then.
I just need the hair. 6 months of searching and waiting to see one for sale and the closest, cheapest match I have been able to find is from cat toys. This is probably the route I'll have to go. Hopefully the cat toys won't be pre-stuff with catnip. I need my cats up on top of things more like I need a hole in my head.
Quoted from mwong168:I know Brock (aka pinballcustoms) is currently sculpting a new big foot shooter rod from scratch. He sent me this progress pic yesterday and can't wait to see it finished and painted.
20160203091549_(resized).jpg
I know he made his own version of a boulder shooter rod a few weeks ago after I've been razzing him for years
IMG-20160129-WA0020_(resized).jpg
The Bigfoot looks great so far! I've bugged him about a boulder shooter in the past as well. That one looks great compared to the giant $10K snowball on the for sale post.
Just a quick update on my sound issue... I decided to go ahead and order new EPROMs for the sound board. I know I didn't have to do this and that there are a few other things I could have tried, but for $20 this was something cheap that I could give a try. I read a few articles about ROM rot and that convinced me to just order the sound chip set. I'll post again if anything improves.
I have blue ones installed. No issues.
FYI... I emailed Marco last week about the white ones. They will be available in the next couple weeks.
Quoted from Paul1478:Just got my white water Sunday.
I want to rebuild the flippers but to not see any kits for the upper flipper. I noticed the flipper crank and return spring are not the same as the two lower ones. I did not find a part number in the manual. Any idea what the part number is?
I assume rest of the parts are all the same.
Thank you.
See my post here;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/30#post-2934173
These are the part numbers for all the flippers.
I've been shopping all week. Winners, Home Sense, Dollarama, Pet Smart, Fabricland, Michael's you name it, I've been there. I've been to each of these stores in multiple locations around Ottawa. What have I been shopping for you ask? Fur. Yep, fur. The Bigfoot on my White Water is missing a chunk of fur on the back of his head. It's supposed to cover the screw that allows you to detach the head from the body. Replacement heads are available at the usual vendors but all of them are furless.
I've been to all of these stores and come up short. The colour and texture of the fur has been EXTREMELY difficult to match. Then yesterday a breakthrough! I found it! A squirrel. A squirrel squeak-toy for dogs that is. I found it at Pet Smart in the woodland creatures section. Apparently woodland creatures have fur that is a best match for Bigfoot. Makes sense. So I coughed up $13 to Martha Stewart and headed home.
Now when I get home I can't show my kids the squirrel. If they see it, and they knew what I was going to do to it, they'd cry. So I have to wait until 8PM to do my nasty work. Kids to bed, finally... Out come the scissors. First thing to go is the wadding and non-fur materials like the tail.
squirrel guts
Inside out it goes and out comes the stitch ripper. This is going to take a while... While I'm sitting on the couch my wife comes in and sits with me and starts to knit herself a scarf. She doesn't even question what I'm doing. She clearly knows I'm insane and does not want to step into my world.
Sorry about the photo of my crotch!
I finally pull out all of the stitching and separate the pieces of fur that I'm going to use. The colour and texture are a very close match. The only thing that is off is the sheen, but 20+ years of sitting in an arcade/garage/warehouse under the sun/fluorescents will do that to fur. In the picture below I've included the original Bigfoot fur. Are you able to tell which is the original? Probably. I managed to get quite a bit of fur off the squirrel, more than I expected. This is good as I may have to replace all of the fur on the Bigfoot body to get everything to match properly.
skinned
Here are some progress pics. First I scalped him and cleaned off all the residual glue from 20+ years ago. Then I started putting on the new fur with new glue. I had to do a little bit at a time and then tie rubber bands around the head until the glue dried. Gluing the fur onto the head isn't so bad until you get close to finished. You have to cut and shape as you go. It's like wrapping an orange in paper. At first it's easy because you have the whole orange to work with, but as you work your way up to the top or bottom all the paper starts to get bunched up.
I'm losing my head
Typical Saturday night at my house
Here are some finished pics. I'm very happy with how this turned out.
Ta dah!
BTW, I re-painted his beard, eyebrows, mustache, teeth and eyes as well. Here's the before and after paint shots;
bigfoot_(resized).png
I am using ROM L5. Mine works the same way. This is a factory setting. I believe you can set it so you have to get all 3 before Gold Rush mode kicks in under the Feature Adjustments but this is not a default setting.
I just keep it that way. The only reason I knew there was a setting to have to earn all of them is from playing it in a tournament.
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:So I have had my White Water for about a week and love it but I noticed that two of the six lights are burned out directly under the Whirlpool area. I will replace them with LED. Are these 555 wedge?
also
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:Is it easier to remove the ramps and things to get to it, or should I try to go through the bottom? I figure enough people on this forum have already done this so I should ask people who have done it to make it easier if possible.
and...
Go from the bottom. It's held on by two screws.
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:What type of bulb (not led) does the topper use? I heard most people put bulbs or the foil water effect doesn't work correctly.
Thanks for the help everyone.
-Mok
Quoted from TheLaw:Do you have to take the subway off first though? Been so long.
It's easiest is you go from the bottom and remove the subway. The subway is just held on with a couple brackets, nothing major. It's much easier that going through the top and removing multiple ramps.
Quoted from fiberdude120:Its easier to get them at the auto parts store.
In Canada it's not.
Quoted from fiberdude120:You guys don't have auto parts stores up there?
We have NAPA, and Canadian Tire and a few others. We just don't get the selection you get down in the USA. If you're ever in Canada stop at one of these places or Home Depot or where ever. Each store will have the popular common items, but I guarantee you they will not have that specific screw you are looking for or that specific bulb.
I ordered my #194 through Digikey.ca. the Canadian website. Guess where they shipped from? Thief River Falls MN.
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:I can't find the missing mountain but the skull mountain I can only find here Very expensive
http://www.pinballdecals.com/PartsByGamePages/WhiteWater_Page.html
Buy them through eBay. Same with the raft mod.
Definitely a short. You need to fine tune your tracing skills. Here is your opportunity. Make sure to check for solder splashes on the sockets at the same time.
Quoted from pin2d:About 1 out of 10 times when someone hits a ball down the Insanity Falls ramp, when the ball drops back onto the playfield, it bounces/rolls straight into the outlane and is either saved by the kickback or drains if the kickback isn't lit. I'm not sure if it is backspin or something else causing this - does anyone else have this happen? Thanks!
It should never do this. Mine has never done this.
Quoted from thewool:One thing is not clear to me, is the ball supposed to go SDTM from a full plunge?
If it doesn't, what is the tweak to stop this? My machine seems levelled, etc.
Thanks.
Quoted from extraballingtmc:Anyone know where to get blue river targets that match the original?
I had one break, ordered one from pinball life but it turned out to be the wrong shade of blue despite being the right part.
Well this sucks. How off is the colour? I would guess the newer target would be a deeper shade of blue as it's newer and hasn't faded over time. I have one that is cracking and I'd hate to have to replace all of them to keep the colour consistent.
Looks like you're on the home stretch. Are you leaving the lightning flippers on it? Do you have new LITE and LOCK green stand-up targets on order?
It's coming together very quickly. Looks great!
Quoted from nsmith:yes I have the Lite and Lock stand-up targets just haven't replaced yet. I just put the lighting flippers in as the old ones were cracked and paint was peeling. I have to order another blue target as they have yellow target in place of one of them
When you order the blue targets you might want to order a full set. Someone earlier in this thread (like only back a few posts) replaced only one of the blue ones and the colour was off. I need to replace my HOT FOOT targets. Someone threw blue ones in there instead of the stock white. They put blue LEDs under the PF as well. I kind of like that though so I plan to leave it that way.
Are any of the old mountains salvageable? I need the one that covers up the R-I-V-E-R area.
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:My friend has the H-5 ROMS and it still said "Ya Wiener"
I'm using L5 and I've heard it as well.
You might want to get a 'missing plastic' from Drano too seeing as your pin is already apart;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/white-water-missing-plastic-coming-soon
Quoted from dr_nybble:I have all the old boulders, previous owner replaced mine with a new set. I'll check at home whether that one is in good shape & let you know.
Thank you very much.
Damn, the screw holes are broken off the Lost Mine mountains. That's the one I'm hoping to replace. Thank you very much for taking the pictures, but I'm going to past on it. I'm sure someone here could use it though.
Quoted from Tlamb:The rubber between the 2 pop bumpers looks strange to me. I will have to check mine out when I get home but I dont believe I have one there.
Mine has it there. This specific rubber has been discussed before. The original machine had this rubber installed. I believe it's in the manual as well. Some people take it out to allow the ball into that area and trigger the sounds off that switch in there.
Quoted from yzfguy:To get to wet Willy's ya need to complete all shots with lit yellow arrows.
Orange arrows. The rafts are yellow. You need to hit the orange "hazard" arrows to finish Wet Willys stage 1. Then stage 2 begins. It will be a moving orange "hazard" arrow.
Quoted from judremy:You can also use the three "light kickback" targets to spot you a hazard or three shots to the Disaster Drop ramp will also spot a hazard. Disaster Drop holds bonus at 6, advances raft at 9, and lights extra ball at 12.
Kickback already has to be lit for the kickback targets to spot you a raft. If not, it just re-lights the kickback. 3 shots to Disaster Drop will spot you a raft, and using the "secret passage" will also spot you a raft. Advance raft in boulder gardens also spots you a raft. I like waiting to use this until at least after raft 10 is lit up.
Only the latest version of the ROM will hold your BONUS. L5 does not.
Yes, lightning flippers are much shorter.
nsmith, you can also purchase the Cliffy protector and that should alleviate the ball getting stuck.
I was thinking of doing this also. Any photos of the strips with the mountains removed? I'm interested to see how you layed them out.
Quoted from judremy:Cool white is so nice on this machine, but most people tend to use a lot of blue or teal. The ice blue also looks good mixed in with the cool white. I'll try to post some pics this weekend.
I agree. The previous owner for my WH2O installed blue LEDs and I can't stand it. The PF is too dark, the art doesn't pop, and the plastics are too dark to see the art pop! I've started installing cool white in all the GI, but I will probably leave the ice blue LEDs behind the RIVER letters and in other specific spots.
What do you guys do for the whirlpool? The original is red correct? I assume this is to match the red bulb cover on the upper PF? Mine is currently blue and I don't like it.
Wow, you really went in-depth with the lighting. I did the same on my F-14 and I find it really pays off. I used 1SMD through out the game, but under the inserts I went with domeless so that I could get the LEDs as close to the inserts as possible. Frosted white for the entire GI and then accented it with 7-LED strips.
For WH2O I'll follow your lead and use the flex LEDs by the RIVER letters. I've already used some flex LEDs on the red inserts for the upper PF. They were hard to get and an flex lit them up best.
Oh, and I bought a Herg LED OCD board for it. That's just the icing on the cake!
Quoted from ttown:Where can I find that missing plastic?
Contact Drano, or do a search on MISSING PLASTIC to pull up the entire thread.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Keep in mind the "missing plastic" (mountain) is not really "missing".
This is two different mods. The missing plastic was created by Drano. The missing mountain you can get through aenaes (sp?)
Uh... The poster simple mentions "missing plastic" so in the Pinside world that is a reference to Drano's mod.
Quoted from pinball_customs:Finally finished my Bigfoot shooter rod 2.0 sculpt..
Looks great! Can't wait to see him painted up! You nailed the moustache!
Quoted from Arcade:Just rejoined the club two days ago.
Scored a garage find Whitewater for only $1400!!!
Only issue was the typical battery corrosion from non pinball people leaving a game in a garage for a year.
Now I have to replace the smaller size female plugs on the bottom of the MPU board.
Photo below.
Are these the .100 size or the .156 size? Can't remember which is the small one but guessing I need the .100
Also who sells the housing and pins. I already have a crimper tool.
0.100
You can buy them through Digikey for cheap. They have the housing, pins and spacers.
L5 has the BONUS HELD glitch and no ball save. This is the one I use as I find it more challenging.
Quoted from Anetpaul10:Hello all..my first WH2O.
Seems to have everything but the wire shooter ramp. Any clue where I can get a shooter ramp?
Do you mean the main wire form off the plunger?
I decided to stupidly melt two of my ramps on the top rack of the dishwasher today. Gone are the Whirlpool ramp and the Upper to Lower ramp. May they rest in peace...
So it goes without saying that I am looking to buy. Before I buy new ones I thought I'd ask in here. Has anyone replaced any/all of their ramps and is looking to sell the old ones?
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I believe I have both ramps that were melted, used, but in good shape, in my parts boxes.
I am going to be moving some things around in the next few weeks.
If I find them, the owner can have them for whatever shipping cost is and small pinball donation.
There is a lesson learned in this situation.
If you cannot control the heat of the dishwasher settings, it is best to flame polish them after scrubbing with Novus.
Don't put game plastics in the dishwasher either, only metal parts.
I have seen people put physical melt holes in the middle of plastics under the same circumstances.
v/r
-TBK
It was just a mistake on my part. I've used my dishwasher on many ramps prior to this. In my sleepless haze I pressed SMART WASH instead of the FAST WASH button. SMART WASH uses heat to dry, and FAST WASH doesn't. Costly mistake, but I don't blame my dishwasher. It's been good to me. Oh, and it did clean them well. They shone like crystal!
Hi guys,
Could someone please take a look under their PF for me and tell me what type of plunger, link, and crank (pawl) you have? Specifically looking at the link. Is it a tapered link or not? The manual shows part number B-13882-L (not tapered) which looks like this on Marco;
http://www.marcospecialties.com//images/products/A-15848-L/detail.jpg
So this is what I ordered, but I don't hear the plunger hitting the flipper stop (the flipper stop is p/n A-12111 which is what I also ordered).
The reason I'm confused is because on my right flipper I have this plunger and link;
http://www.marcospecialties.com//images/products/B-10655-L/detail.JPG
It has a tapered link. I know operators use whatever parts they have handy in the toolbox, but the plunger with the tapered link is hitting the flipper stop. So it makes me wonder if I ordered the wrong parts.
Which one do you guys have on your pins?
Quoted from judremy:Really? The hole in the upper playfield for the flipper alignment says different (I think). I originally had it lined up and the Insanity Falls ramp became very difficult.
Mine is this way but I know what you are saying. The hole is really just a guideline. The flipper should be inline with the metal guide.
I've seen some White Waters with blue flasher domes and some with red in this thread. Red is the factory colour right?
Quoted from yzfguy:Red is factory, but all us cool folks switch to blue.
I'll hang out over here with the red folks. You know, the people that use white GI lights and don't have a Bumble as their Bigfoot. 
I can't stand the ice White Water but to each their own. I would personally never buy one that has been converted to winter.
The red LEDs for the whirlpool make sense because the whirlpool LED on the upper PF (sign) is also red. However, I've been thinking of using Comet's ICE blue for the whirlpool. Regular blue is too damn blue, but ice or light blue is not as drastic.
I'm sold on the ice blue in the whirlpool hole. Thanks for putting up the vid! You definitely need Herg's LED OCD board to smooth out the LEDs but overall I think it looks very nice. It's funny, but I have white LEDs under the RIVER letters and blue under the BIGFOOT targets right now. I bought the pin like this. I wasn't going to swap out the blue on BIGFOOT but after seeing your vid I definitely will. The white stands out much more. Thanks again!
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:I would agree if it weren't for the failure of the river class holdover. What I do is turn off the ball save so it's basically L-5 but the holdover works correctly.
I prefer the challenge of the river class without the holdover. I've managed to get VJ 3 times on my pin using L-5. I know it's a software glitch, but I like it as it adds another level of difficulty. It also makes the Mystery challenge a lot more rewarding when you get that CLASS 6 RIVER.
Quoted from jonesjb:I love this game, but there is one thing I can't figure out. If I light the locks, is there any way for me to progress and NOT activate multiball (delaying multiball). The thing is some of the raft targets to progress share the same shot as the lock. Any pointers?
I think you mean hazard targets. If the hazard target is lit inbetween the two locks and you have multball ready to go you need to avoid it. There are a few ways to progress. You can advance a raft through the boulder garden. You can re-light the bounce back. You can send the ball through the Distaster Drop loop. Any of these will advance the raft and switch up the hazard targets that are lit.
Quoted from nman:Got mine from Aeneas awhile ago. Not sure if he's still making them though. Good luck with the search.
Same here. Give him a buzz.
Quoted from Litedpinballmods:Made a Wet Willie's blue panel van mod for White Water. Will have it for sale in our store in 2 months when we open.
I know the name on the van is Wet Willy, but on the cabin on the play field it is Wet Willies.
We will have many new mods when we open.
I think it would be better as Wet Willy. It would also look better if the angle of the print was the same as the backglass. It's not a mod I would buy personally but kudos to you for creating it.
I'm very excited for this. Thank you for do it! Unfortunately my pin is in pieces right now as I make repairs to the upper PF otherwise you would already have your answer!
Man that skull mountain mod looks completely out of place. I'd have to paint it to match or my OCD would overtake me. It should come already painted to match for the price of it.
Quoted from hanktrainer:Can someone help me please? My wh20 resets when both targets are hit simultaneously. Already checked for solder bridge and put be diods on, that wasn't it. Anyone have a pic of the wiring to these two targets so I can check the wiring? Greatly appreciate it...
Which two targets? You mean the flippers?
Quoted from urbanledge:I never understand why someone would put LEDs in a WH20!
It sucks the character out of it,
I dont care tho.mine looks lovely and warm!
I agree, if not done correctly it will look like shit. However, LED technology has come a long way since those cold ugly LEDs. Mine has new Comet Warm White installed with an LED OCD board. I doubt you would be able to tell the difference from incandescent other than the LEDs are much brighter and you can see more colours in the playfield pop! My topper I left as incandescent. I like the old fashion bulbs up there. They seem to twinkle more off the waterfall.
Quoted from Plumonium:Nice clean Wh20 buddy!
Thanks! That's my newly clearcoated upper PF. I'm finally putting her back together! It's been since April!
Got any pics of this area on your pin? My wireramp was held on by a massive panhead 2" Robertson screw. That sucker isn't going back in. I need the proper stuff!
Quoted from Plumonium:Hey bud, I can peek at it tonight when I'm home.
My gut feeling it's one of those:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/237-5809-00
BTW, what stuff did you use to CC the mini?
Thanks. I sent it out to a guy in Toronto. He's done a few in the past.
I don't think it's that type of screw. I'm thinking more like the ones in this pic, but I've seen many different variations.
Thanks Plumonium!
Quoted from algrande:I am doing mine as well. the original one had a drywall screw in it. What ever was in there from the factory obliviously doesn't hold.
I am thinking about using T-nuts.
I was thinking the same. That wireform gets a work out so I was thinking either t-nuts and some locktite, or possibly some vibration-damping hex head screws like this;
Probably 1/2" or 3/4" in length. #6 if possible.
Hey guys,
I'm finally putting together my WH2O after a long, long time apart. I took pictures, but obviously not enough. My memory has failed in other areas as well.
I'm re-installing the two black post rubbers right beside the whirlpool hole. Is there anything that screws into the two side by side ones in this photo? I need to know so that I can start the install of the upper playfield.
Thx!
(BTW, this is not my pic)
Quoted from mbaumle:My particular game just has two machine screws that hold them down.
Thanks. So just the standard screw with the little flange on it? Awesome. Thanks.
Thank you!
Quick replies. Thanks guys!
I like it, but I'd like it better with just the raft, Willie and the dog. The only people that will "get" the shirt are pinheads and pinheads don't need WHITEWATER emblazoned across the front of it. A more subtle version would look cooler.
Quoted from mbaumle:I agree. Even non pinheads looking at the shirt wouldn't get that it's a pinball machine. It's just too niche.
If you have just a raft, it just kinda looks like an old man with his dog are having a good time on an inflatable boat. With the logo behind, you know exactly what he's doing, and why it's so fun.
Nice job on the design, webdiddy!
Oh, and this is just a small nit-pik detail, but the inner brim of the cowboy hat is supposed to be red, not white.
I have the Cliffy's for boulder protection. They fit perfectly and work perfectly. Order all of his protectors while you're at it.
Quoted from Whitewater:I got my 3D translite for both whitewater and attack from Mars from 'ministryofpinball' just do a Google search for them, they have them in stock now. They were very well packed and shipping was fast. I would definitely buy from them again. Good luck
Do a search on Ministry Of Pinball. There are a few threads complaining about this vendor. Make your own judgement, but educate yourself.
Quoted from Luppin:I've installed a new plunger in the bounceback. The problem is that the tip is a bit too long and it blocks the balls when it drains (when bounceback is off). Should I cut it a bit?
Compare it to the old one to see if the length is identical. Then double check you didn't miss anything when you installed the new one. Then sand it or cut it if needed.
Quoted from Luppin:I installed a new spring in the plunger, the right one for wh2o. Still, I cant make it to the spine chiller ramp. The speed of the ball definitely increased. But I noticed that in the end of the spine chiller ramp, there is no flap. So when the ball touches the end of the ramp (creating a small stair, without the flap), it looses quite a lot of speed and cant make it to go down from the spine chiller.
Is a flap supposed to be on the end of this ramp?
Do you mean you installed a new coil in the flipper? I don't understand what a new spring in the plunger has to do with the spine chiller ramp.
Quoted from Luppin:Im talking qbout the skill shot: the skill should be not too shoot the plunger too strongly, so that the ball falls back to the upper flipper instead of down the spine chiller ramp. But on my machine, even at full force, the ball always falls back to the upper flupper. Hence, no skill is required.
The plunger spring should be silver.
Quoted from Luppin:The old one (white) has the point of the tip broken, so I guess it was originally slightly longer. But the new one (black) is definitely too long, blocking the movement of the ball in the outlane when draining. There is no space for adjustment in the kickback assembly.
The black one is the original. They were all black. Looks like someone swapped yours with a white one. If they did this then I'm guessing they made a few other modifications. Look under the apron and make sure you have all the original parts for the bounce back. Use the manual for your comparisons.
Quoted from Luppin:So, is the spine chiller ramp supposed to have a flap where it connects with the upper playfield? I can see two holes by the border of the ramp where a flap could be connected. Item number?
No. The ramp connects directly to the upper playfield with two screws to secure it. There is no flap.
I have the LED OCD board. I think it is well worth it. I ordered my GI OCD board and will be picking it up on Thursday so I can't comment on the GI yet.
BTW, those flippers look awesome. I just switched my left flipper from blue to orange as well. The only difference with the orange coil is that it is a lot harder to backhand the Spine Chiller shot. It can still be done, but you really need to flip it right.
Quoted from TheLaw:I use LEDs for (95%) inserts and incandescent for GI and everything looks awesome....I don't see the need to add monies with a board like that.
I like having the option of dimming or brightening up LEDs in specific areas of the PF. I also can't stand the harshness that occurs when you add LEDs. This is my 3rd LED OCD board and I will continue to buy them. You'll get the most out of your $200+ LED investment and the LEDs will be flowing and smooth.
Until you've seen in it action it is hard to justify an LED OCD board. Once you've seen it, you will never go back.
Usually it is just carbon build up and if you use black rubbers or posts the rubber disperses over time. Make sure to keep the balls clean as well.
Quoted from Methos:Has anyone successfully removed air bubbles from their toppers?
In the dome?
Quoted from Arcade:More of a tech question but why not start here since it is Whitewater.
On my game, sometimes the sound will just cut out all together.
However if I turn the game off and back on it works great again.
This is happening more and more so something is starting to go.
Any ideas what part of the sound board it might be?
Feel free to PM me with any sound questions you have. I have had a number of sound related issues on my White Water and I've been able to resolve all of them.
Here is my proudest resolution;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/explain-to-me-how-the-mpu-triggers-sound-on-a-wpc-sound-board
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:Okay, I misunderstood your question. I was thinking about it as the ball rolling back down the Spine Chiller (backspin).
I would inspect the ball trough to make sure it's not coming loose or something, and then look for broken parts in or around the mech. I don't think there's any real adjustment to the trough, other than making sure it's attached tightly. Check to make sure the cup that holds the ball under the VUK is not damaged. I'm just theorizing here, but if the balls are rolling too far forward then the popper could be forcing them back the other way when it pops. Or, if the trough isn't angled correctly then there may not be enough gravity to hold the balls in when the VUK pops.
This is an excellent answer. You can inspect the cup just by looking down at the VUK through the upper PF. If any of the fins are broken off then replace the part. If you don't have one, you can swap it with the one on the Gold Mine VUK until you can get a new one. If the problem remains then the easiest way to look at the multiball mech is to remove it from the bottom of the PF. Otherwise you'll have to take off the upper PF. This is fairly simple to do too if you have done it before but for first timers it can be a lengthy process.
Cliffy's are a must. Especially on the upper PF where the VUK kicks up the ball. There is a colour DMD, but I've heard that it's not as spectacular as switching to colour on other machines. Must mods for me were Drano missing plastic mod, missing mountain mod, bear w/fish mod, LEDs, LED OCD board by
herg and the new magnet apron mod by
NinJaBooT
Quoted from Hammerhead:At $400 CAD plus shipping, it had better be!
You're looking at $625CAD before you're hit with taxes and duty. If I could get one for under $700 I'd consider myself lucky.
I could buy over 100 bear/fish mods for that price.
Quoted from Hammerhead:That's what I meant to say.
I know. I was just helping you out. 
Quoted from Whitewater:I have installed the Great Lakes Modular board upgrade. Now I can run 6v 555 LEDs in my topper. No heat at all. I experimented with many different leds and I have found that the single 5050 leds are the absolute best. My waterfall effect looks even better than with old school bulbs.
The GLM board upgrade looks great, but I need to see high resolution video of the GLM board using 5050 LEDs before agreeing that it looks better than old school bulbs.
How is it we can re-engineer the chase boards, re-create a new topper dome, and re-make every White Water part but the foil waterfall remains a mystery?
Quoted from Luppin:another question: beside spotting RIVER letters, do inlanes microswitches have other purposes? I mean, if I remove them (and the below lights of course), is there any aspect of the gameplay/software that could be involved? I will get the credit dot after some games of course, but, apart from, that anything else?
What software version are you running? Use L5 software and the RIVER letters are not held.
Quoted from Luppin:My problem is I reach level 6 too often. Quite easy using the inlanes. I have the latest ROM, and Im fine holding river level if I make enough shots in the disaster drop.
But yes, by removing the right inlane switch, multimillions will be lost, too. Not a big loss by the way..
Just downgrade the software to L5 to see if you like it better. I left mine at L5 for this exact reason. It became more difficult when the bonus isn't held. This is the cheapest and simplest option to try first.
I take it you are obtaining the VACATION JACKPOT too frequently?
Quoted from mbaumle:If I recall, you can access the whirlpool lamps by pulling out the subway, and pulling the board out from underneath. Otherwise, you'll have to remove the entire upper playfield.
As for getting to the lost mine flasher, I don't recall there being an easy way to access it from the underside of the game, but it isn't terribly difficult to remove the insanity falls ramp to remove the boulder plastic.
This.
The best way to access the whirlpool is from under the PF.
You have to remove the insanity falls ramp to access the flasher.
Quoted from Aflacjack:Yes. It is what the pinballbulbs kit calls for.
This makes me want to avoid pinballbulbs and kits in general. The stock colour is incandescent with red caps. I would suggest putting 1SMD frosted bulbs and re-installing the red caps. The red 'ring' is supposed to be red to match the RED "Whirlpool is lit" light up on the upper playfield sign.
Quoted from mbaumle:Why not just stick a blue bulb in the whirlpool sign then?
I'm a purist. I bring pinball machines back to life but I always maintain that stock look. Although I've been known to get crazy and stray once and awhile. Personally I think blue flipper rubbers are better than the original stock red ones.
Quoted from Plumonium:Did you sell your White Water really?
I had to sell it get the foundation redone on the outside of my house. Sold it back to Bob. Hopefully he'll offer it up to me again some time in the future. I really would like to get it back so that I can shop the cabinet.
Quoted from Playdium:https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/56937
White Water For Sale
$4800 seems slightly steep if there is no topper included.
The optos should work through the clear ramp. What happens in switch test mode?
Quoted from Tjohejsan:And i have some problem whit My big fot not spinning.
I have tried with a 9v battary directly to the motor. And it works fine.
What couldnbr wrong?
What happens when you are in test mode?
Quoted from Tjohejsan:In test mode it works if i take the whole bracket off.
But when the bracket is placed where it should be, its not working.
The led optos Will not work thru the plastic ramp.
Try putting a thinner piece of plastic in front of one/both optos or even a piece of glass just to see if there is any change.
Quoted from KJS:Hi all.
Wondering if someone can help. Are the hangers on the playfield supposed to be short or long?
Reason I ask is the rear of the apron is sitting up high when mounted to the hangers.
Thankyou
It's supposed to be this way. The gap is normal.
Quoted from gcmess:Been searching this board for solutions to the annoying loud sound I have when shutting down my WH2O. I have found a few interesting ideas and even a components list for a suppression circuit using radio shack p/ns. I think radio shack is dead. Anyway....anyone have any new ideas or fixes that I could try....I am worried about damage to my speakers. Thanks in advance.
You could get on this list; http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/wpc-speaker-pop-eliminator.4731/
Quoted from Marvin:There are definite color differences. The band in the hat is white and should be colored. And the lock text by the green targets does not have the white mask, they are basically impossible to see. I think these were fixed on later runs from Mirco. But you have an older run since it has those errors. Pretty sure that's at least one more issue but I don't remember what it is.
There should also be red on the wooden posts that hold the signs in the boulder area. If you take a look at Drano's WW restoration he has the same playfield and goes about correcting these omissions.
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