White Water
Williams, 1993Ok so I added those two post next to the front bumper. My question is though in a lot of pictures, I see some people put a single rubber on each post, and some machines I see a 1 1/4” rubber across the two post. The manual shows a rubber across the two post. (I think lol) Can anyone clarify?
2674A76C-1FB2-43BA-95DD-3053D435627D (resized).jpeg7287F858-09AC-42F3-B27A-781E41B5D446 (resized).jpegB6CC1769-867E-4899-8281-E296269757BB (resized).jpegI played with both setups extensively. The game plays way better with out the post and rubber inside the boulders. Take them out, put a piece of Mylar over the screw hole where the post was, and never look back
That was a public service you did, tracking the statistics. Convincing too. Thanks!
For those who missed it, see blitz’s post from earlier in the thread — https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/81#post-4979269
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:I played with both setups extensively.
Two questions for you folks.
1. What type of LEDs did you guys use in the topper? I put in 2 SMD COMETs which I have had good luck with everywhere and the shimmering effect didn't seem to work right. Also, after leaving them on for 2 hours, I smelled burned rubber and noticed the topper lights were no longer all working. I am going to have to look at the boards and connectors up there, but am curious as to what everybody else is using. I just got the correct bit so I can remove the topper without having to just shimmy my arm in there.
2. The ramp with "multi millions" on it in the far left isn't scoring correctly. When the yellow arrow is there, and a shoot a ball up the ramp, it doesn't register it, but still makes sounds when it hits the gate. The same thing happens when multi millions is lit. I have no credit dot and no switch errors. I'm really scratching my head on this one and would appreciate any help.
I have a bunch of used ramps and mountains coming over the next week along with a new topper dome and am really liking how the machine is turning out. I'm going from "heavy players" to decent.
Thanks!
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Two questions for you folks.
1. What type of LEDs did you guys use in the topper? I put in 2 SMD COMETs which I have had good luck with everywhere and the shimmering effect didn't seem to work right. Also, after leaving them on for 2 hours, I smelled burned rubber and noticed the topper lights were no longer all working. I am going to have to look at the boards and connectors up there, but am curious as to what everybody else is using. I just got the correct bit so I can remove the topper without having to just shimmy my arm in there.
2. The ramp with "multi millions" on it in the far left isn't scoring correctly. When the yellow arrow is there, and a shoot a ball up the ramp, it doesn't register it, but still makes sounds when it hits the gate. The same thing happens when multi millions is lit. I have no credit dot and no switch errors. I'm really scratching my head on this one and would appreciate any help.
I have a bunch of used ramps and mountains coming over the next week along with a new topper dome and am really liking how the machine is turning out. I'm going from "heavy players" to decent.
Thanks!
Those are 12v bulbs, not 6v. I made the same mistake! You need 194 type bulbs, it's in the manual. I went with incandescent.
On the switch issue, I have a similar experience. The switches register in test mode with a ball and I can hear the sound during game play, but it doesn't seem to score.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Two questions for you folks.
1. What type of LEDs did you guys use in the topper?
No one uses leds the topper, the effect cannot be reproduced that way.
Gotta check the opto for the multi millions ramp, that's the only reason it wouldn't score. Is it triggering both ramp switches in test mode?
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:I played with both setups extensively. The game plays way better with out the post and rubber inside the boulders. Take them out, put a piece of Mylar over the screw hole where the post was, and never look back
Don‘t you get a lot of right outlane drains? I have been thinking lately about taking the rubber out. This has been discussed at various places in this thread.
What does puzzle me a bit is that there seems to be two switches behind the rubber above the right outline. This little lane is pretty much blocked off because of the rubber so balls only go in there from below on strange bounces. How come the game never gives an error at start up because these switches are rarely activated?
Quoted from branlon8:Don‘t you get a lot of right outlane drains? I have been thinking lately about taking the rubber out. This has been discussed at various places in this thread.
What does puzzle me a bit is that there seems to be two switches behind the rubber above the right outline. This little lane is pretty much blocked off because of the rubber so balls only go in there from below on strange bounces. How come the game never gives an error at start up because these switches are rarely activated?
I didn’t notice any difference in outlane drains. I did notice more sound effects from that switch being hit more. Not sure how many games without being hit before the credit dot would appear, but the ball does work it’s way up in there from underneath fairly often. Especially during multiballs, when one might miss seeing it get hit.
Without the rubber installed, the ball does go to the right more towards the outlane. However, most times it shoots the ball back into the center of the playfield, instead of down the Outlane. The pops shoot it off the rubber on the right where the switch is and creates great action.
With the rubber in, and when the ball would go “under” the boulders and hit the installed rubber ring on its bottom side, it would deaden the ball and the ball would slowly trickle to the post between the inlane and outlane. This created a stressful nudging situation that was 50/50 at best. More times than not it would drain out.
Before the “experiment”, I assumed having the rubber ring in would lead to more pop bumper action. Both ways seemed to have about the same pop action.
* With the ring, short, fast ball movement between the pops
* Without the ring, more variety and still fast ball movement.
Having the ring removed gave the game greater ball movement and variety to overall play without any increased frustration with outlane drains. Game is way more enjoyable without the ring.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:I didn’t notice any difference in outlane drains. I did notice more sound effects from that switch being hit more. Not sure how many games without being hit before the credit dot would appear, but the ball does work it’s way up in there from underneath fairly often. Especially during multiballs, when one might miss seeing it get hit.
Without the rubber installed, the ball does go to the right more towards the outlane. However, most times it shoots the ball back into the center of the playfield, instead of down the Outlane. The pops shoot it off the rubber on the right where the switch is and creates great action.
With the rubber in, and when the ball would go “under” the boulders and hit the installed rubber ring on its bottom side, it would deaden the ball and the ball would slowly trickle to the post between the inlane and outlane. This created a stressful nudging situation that was 50/50 at best. More times than not it would drain out.
Before the “experiment”, I assumed having the rubber ring in would lead to more pop bumper action. Both ways seemed to have about the same pop action.
* With the ring, short, fast ball movement between the pops
* Without the ring, more variety and still fast ball movement.
Having the ring removed gave the game greater ball movement and variety to overall play without any increased frustration with outlane drains. Game is way more enjoyable without the ring.
I got my game a few weeks back and noticed these 2 holes were open and no post...I thought maybe who ever shopped the game forgot to put them back on lol...I ended up ordering from Marco both post and the rubber kit for the game...I may just remove them again after all!
Quoted from Lermods:Those are 12v bulbs, not 6v. I made the same mistake! You need 194 type bulbs, it's in the manual. I went with incandescent.
On the switch issue, I have a similar experience. The switches register in test mode with a ball and I can hear the sound during game play, but it doesn't seem to score.
Yeppers... so the LEDs I threw up there... melted. I couldn't make things more difficult. I need to take the board out up there to get them out all the way. I can't do that because I don't have the torx security bits, and amazon sent me the wrong ones. I had thrown the old bulbs in my big bag of pulled bulbs with about 400 other bulbs, and I can't tell the 194s from 555s by sight, so I gotta wait for replacements to come in.
Quoted from TheLaw:No one uses leds the topper, the effect cannot be reproduced that way.
Gotta check the opto for the multi millions ramp, that's the only reason it wouldn't score. Is it triggering both ramp switches in test mode?
I have a big box of used mountains and ramps coming to me next week and will be doing a full topside teardown and rebuild with better parts. Where are the optos going to be located for that particular ramp? I've never had to repair an opto before despite having a ST:TNG.
Thanks all!
See photo below for source of smell and lesson on why not to put 555 LEDs in a 194 socket.
20190813_193659 (resized).jpgQuoted from SantaEatsCheese:Where are the optos going to be located for that particular ramp? I've never had to repair an opto before despite having a
They are right above the upper flipper.
First thing you do is clean them with a little windex and Q-tip, make sure nothing is lose or a wire missing, make sure they are aligned. You can just put it in test mode and move the ball in front of them to check.
One day I would like to get this game but considering it's prices I had a few questions for those who have had serious time on the table.
1. In my experiences the game feels heavy right flipper biased, rarely do I seem to use the left except for some up the middle shots, and you pretty much always need to hit insanity falls to get the ball over to the left.
2. For those that no longer have the game (or those that still have but rarely play it) how long before the honeymoon phase wore off and it got stale?
I appreciate the responses!
Quoted from gjm7777:One day I would like to get this game but considering it's prices I had a few questions for those who have had serious time on the table.
1. In my experiences the game feels heavy right flipper biased, rarely do I seem to use the left except for some up the middle shots, and you pretty much always need to hit insanity falls to get the ball over to the left.
2. For those that no longer have the game (or those that still have but rarely play it) how long before the honeymoon phase wore off and it got stale?
I appreciate the responses!
1. Left flipper is critical to get the extra ball and to relight the kickback with the three standup target on the middle right side. Disaster drop orbit is easier from the left flipper. And only real men can thread the boulders for the right orbit!
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:1. Left flipper is critical to get the extra ball and to relight the kickback....And only real men can thread the boulders for the right orbit!
AND...spotting a disaster when your kickback is already lit. That way you can avoid being manly and going through the boulder garden 
Gotta grab that disaster drop awarded hold bonus to max your river class!
Quoted from yaksplat:Threading the boulders is rough. I'm not very manly.
I second this statement. Threading the boulders is the hardest shot of the game for sure. Right flipper heavy I don't agree with at all as a matter of fact I find it to be very balanced.
Quoted from gjm7777:One day I would like to get this game but considering it's prices I had a few questions for those who have had serious time on the table.
1. In my experiences the game feels heavy right flipper biased, rarely do I seem to use the left except for some up the middle shots, and you pretty much always need to hit insanity falls to get the ball over to the left.
2. For those that no longer have the game (or those that still have but rarely play it) how long before the honeymoon phase wore off and it got stale?
I appreciate the responses!
I have had mine for over 22 years, still love it. Not only will I never get rid of it, but the rest of the family would kill me if I did.
It may be slightly right flipper biased, but if so, not by a lot.
When I’m in a groove the left flipper is an easy backhand for the Spine Chiller ramp.
And there are times when you want to keep the ball away from the lock but get it to the upper pf — for example, to stack 5x Playfield and Wh20 multiball.
Backhanding from the left flipper is easier and less risky than the shot from the right flipper. Backhand shots are so satisfying too.
Quoted from transprtr4u:After more than 25 years ... My first Whitewater ![quoted image][quoted image]
Congratulations its an awesome game. Not trying to be a dick but did you notice you have a credit dot?
Quoted from Digduglus:Has anyone done powder coat on this machine?
We've learned that white looks horrible. Seen more than a few chrome jobs,.
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:Not trying to be a dick but did you notice you have a credit dot?
$5 on bigfoot switch
Quoted from TheLaw:Now rip that shitty blue GI out of there
That be the plan , as well as the pink 906's in the headboard
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:Congratulations its an awesome game. Not trying to be a dick but did you notice you have a credit dot?
2 switches require attention... get them in .. Find the issues to repair
Quoted from TheLaw:$5 on bigfoot switch
Pay up ...
Switch 54 and 57
Quoted from transprtr4u:as well as the pink 906's in the headboard
Good lord!
Quoted from transprtr4u:Pay up ...
Fair enough
Quoted from transprtr4u:2 switches require attention... get them in .. Find the issues to repair
Good deal. Probably bigfoots cave switch like TheLaw stated. Just making the point so you could ask for help here in the club if it turned out to be serious.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:1. Left flipper is critical to get the extra ball and to relight the kickback with the three standup target on the middle right side. Disaster drop orbit is easier from the left flipper. And only real men can thread the boulders for the right orbit!
Also easier to hit the hotfoot targets from the left flipper to then steal bigfoot's treasure...
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Two questions for you folks.
1. ....
2. The ramp with "multi millions" on it in the far left isn't scoring correctly. When the yellow arrow is there, and a shoot a ball up the ramp, it doesn't register it, but still makes sounds when it hits the gate. The same thing happens when multi millions is lit. I have no credit dot and no switch errors. I'm really scratching my head on this one and would appreciate any help.
...
In my experience the Spine Chiller will sometimes fail to register if the ball in moving slow enough. The rushing water sound effect you hear is from the first microswitch on the ramp, however, that's just a switch for the sound effect, it does not effect whether or not you "make the shot". The switch that registers a successful shot is an opto back behind the mountain/bigfoot. It may be that adjusting the opto can lead to various results, but on my game the Spin Chiller shot will often not register if the ball is travelling very slowly. When the ball has some speed to it, then the opto gets triggered just fine.
If yours never registers then you need to check that opto.
Quoted from TheLaw:Fair enough
Big Thank you to "The Law" bet paid for ....
Wasn't necessary from my end ....
However you sir are a gentlemen!
You have my respect!
Yep, its worth what you are willing to pay and what someone else wants to sell it for. The prices are all over the place. One thing to be aware of, if you are not already is a repro topper or no topper at all will devalue the game. If you need to replace ramps, they are costly, if you have to LED and rerubber it it will be quite time consuming. Otherwise its only pinball and its always fun.
Quoted from jkashani:Yep, its worth what you are willing to pay and what someone else wants to sell it for. The prices are all over the place. One thing to be aware of, if you are not already is a repro topper or no topper at all will devalue the game. If you need to replace ramps, they are costly, if you have to LED and rerubber it it will be quite time consuming. Otherwise its only pinball and its always fun.
100 percent agree. Was looking for a decent whitewater for over a year. Project no problem, but original topper in good condition was a must have for me. Passed at least 3 others with missing or repro toppers cause I wanted the "sparkles"
Hey everyone just thought I would let you know starship fantasy has boulder sets in stock finally. Better grab a set before they disappear again, i'm sure these are gonna go very quickly.
Heres the link to the boulder sets to make it a little easier for everyone.
https://starship-fantasy.com/ramps/Whitewater-Boulders
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:Hey everyone just thought I would let you know starship fantasy has boulder sets in stock finally.
Ouch... $192
Quoted from yaksplat:Ouch... $192
Tell me bout it my ass is still bleeding after that purchase. What are you gonna do though he has a monopoly on all this crap.
I'm glad he's making these and other parts. Sometimes, you just need to pay up to make your games nice.
Wonder if these will be gone by end of day?
Hope everyone that needs them gets them.
Wish you could buy individual pieces like most of the ramps.
Quoted from Davi:$370 with shipping and tax. No comment.
Ok Peter I was bitching about $227 but you definitely have something to bitch about. $370 Ouch!!
Quoted from MikeSinMD:$227 with tax and shipping! Ouch!!!
Quoted from Davi:$370 with shipping and tax. No comment.
Too scared to look at cost in AUD .
$227US = @ 380 AUD + post . The price of living in paradise 
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