No, I'm talking aboot clown puking. It doesnt have to be a bunch of different colors, Spoilers most of the time it's just purple.

And we've all heard the "it's a water theme.." excuse before. Usually when Changi g the whirpool lights to blue.

Fair enough When I get it all together I'm open to suggestions... And the whirlpool I'm kinda up in the air about, I have seen with blue, red, orange, and warm white I was using ice blue which is basically one step bluer than cool white

IMO it's when u use super saturated Colors that it gets barfy, and ya that blue under the mountain is a good example of it

We've lost you already

Blue makes sense, but red is what the designer intended. Since there's a ton of interesting ramps and twisting that's tough to keep track of, the red bulb in the sign at the whirlpool entrance gives the player a clear direction, since there are red bulbs in the whirlpool as well. It makes everything a lot easier to follow.

And the whirlpool lamps aren't just there for show either. Each one will stop blinking (and stay lit) during the Ride the Whirlpool mode to tell the player how many are left to complete the whirlpool without having to look up at the display.

Also, theres a red flasher dome under the whirlpool.

I assume red was chosen because it stands out against the blue well. Technically speaking, blue's complementary color (the color that has the most contrast to blue) would be orange, but orange probably wasn't a common color bulb condom at the Williams factory, so the next closest color, red, was used.

I honestly don't see any reason you can't use blue (bracing for TheLaw's wrath here), so long as you also change the color of the bulb in the whirlpool sign to match. However, if you really want to make the whirlpool stand out as much as possible and experiment a bit, try using orange LEDs and an orange flasher.

Mother fu&*er... People can use whatever color they like as it is their machine and their right. I won't email, call, or pop in to their house to push my views on them. But if you show them in the owners thread here I will comment on them.
As usual I have included many cute emoticons showing it's not that big of a deal and it's all in fun.
If you want your machine to look like a complete piece of shit go ahead; that is all of our rights as pinsiders (obviously)

I have no idea why it was chosen either. Of course you can't help but notice that Red is a standard W/B jackpot color. Both upper shots have red inserts for JPs, and a red light to start a mode...both of those things occur in the whirpool which has red lights.
EDIT: plus I don;t think there are many blue colored 'anythings' back then? My PM has a blue condom on one bulb...I'm sure there more but not the most common.

Lol, I know dude. I’m busting your chops as well. It’s tough conveying stuff in text, you know?

I have noticed that those contrasting colors they were going after, using red flash domes and such, might actually look better as being orange in games like white water and Whirlwind. Yellow would look good too.

Anywho, Blue insert/lamp stuff definitely wasn’t common back then. And when it was used, it aged pretty terribly. Lamps under an aged blue insert look like faded garbage. So maybe it’s a good thing that it’s rare.

Then in the words of goldmember "there is no pleeeaasing you." Sorry every single gi bulb in this game is not going to be white... So call it what u will, kinda funny how you clearly disregard any amount of work done to a machine because there is a blue bulb in it and now it's "shit". But like you said it's my machine and I'm definitely not seeking your approval. What a sinner I am to the pinball gods shame on me.

Point of clarification since you seem highly educated in this area... So all woz machines must Clearly be barf city in your book eh?

WOZ was designed with color, thats fine.

Personally i don't like the look of WOZ at all, but does the GI change color in it... I though it was only the inserts? Anyway I avoid it pretty easily.

Your machine looks fantastic. The quote you're pulling from me was a general discussion, not specific to your machine.

At this point I don't give a big hairy shit if you loaded it up with all pink bulbs. Whatever color bulbs you go with will not ultimately take away from the amazing work you are doing to this machine. Everyone gets so caught up (myself included with the white boulders) in the petty BS that we forget about all the hard work that had to be done to this machine to even get it to the point of bulb discussion. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one but some of them really stink. We are all entitled to have our own just saying try not to negate the great work the op has done to this point. We should be celebrating all the work he has done to revitalize a dead machine and bring some grandeur to this hobby. Ultimately there is nobody following this thread that doesn't wish they had either the time, money or drive to make their machine look as good as his when finished. Just my 2 cents

The skull mountain looks much better with the missing mountain almost tying into it. I think the skull mountain maker should explore that and come up with an altered mold.

I think its the color of that blue that's a little too intense. Something with more of a cyan color might match better. Not that big of a deal.

The big thing I found you have to watch out for is the fading affects and how they tie in with additional lighting. I added some spots to mine in various places but they are incandescent and tie into the GI wiring so that they dim along with the other GI lighting. That way everything integrates really nicely.

Just a friendly reminder that White Water has the best upper playfield ever made and it's not even close.

hmm no. as much as I love WW, BK2K has a better upper pf.

Totally agree with you on this. Technically not an upper playfield but Grand Lizard also.

Ive heard folks say they get tired of hearing the “whee-a-wheet!” sound from No Way Out to the upper flipper. I say, grow some stones and take the Spine Chiller up top!!! Try hitting Insanity Falls from Spine Chiller. That takes some skillz

That sound is probably the only thing I would change on the game.

I always thought it sounded like Diz from "Out of Control" but it later dawned on me it was a wolf whistle like "hey, look over here, your ball is about to get kicked out!". It used to grate on me more than it does now, but yeah, the Spine Chiller is not to be slept on, especially for the combo bonuses.

Love Diz,
Sound never bothered me... Amazingly.

One of the best sounding pins out there. With each raft progression it just gets you more excited and pumped up!

Fiancé wants Bumble installed on her White Water. I sifted through the threads and found the Bumble, ordered it and she will get ir for Christmas.

Looking for some help installing Bumble. Didn’t really see any how to threads or what is exactly involved to install him. If anyone could assist me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Hasn’t bothered me, neither. But when I first got the game, I thought “Class 2 River” was saying “That’s Tubular!” and I had done something spectacular....Haha!

Just installed Moto-Bone's Bigfoot Bluff ramp guide, as I was also having trouble with ball hangups. I also had cracked switch tabs on my ramp. Eventually, I replace it, but I can at least delay it, since the ramp guide does a good job at holding the switch in place. It took less than 5 minutes to install, and while I needed a bit of finagling to get everything lined up, I was eventually able to get everything screwed down. Definitely recommended if your game is having hangups under the boulders!

IMG_9240 (resized).JPG

I have the ramp protectors behind both lock targets — the bulky green targets are getting absolutely destroyed on them. Ball hits target, target hits metal. There’s just no clearance. Has anyone foam padded that area without dampening the glow effect behind the target?

Would a tougher, less bulky target swapped in do better?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-15658-2

A cheaper solution is to just take the third (right most) spacer out from under the existing ball guide. You then replace with a post ring rubber and tighten the guide down more. This brings the ball down lower and it will never be able to hit the switch. Problem solved. Total cost = $0. That ball guide is not necessary at all.

Anyone in need of a decent used playfield set. Just put my old set on eBay starting at $59 cheers
ebay.com link: 0

But you know everyone here loves to throw money at anything they think is a problem

Oh, I know. I'm thinking of making a sheet of plastic that you install under the glass. To protect the glass from the ball.

Do you have a link for that?

I have to buy a new ramp as my ramp is cracked exactly where yours is on the top right. Those airballs hit that metal bracket holding the switch pretty badly.

Just contact moto-bone directly here. Last I spoke to him, he made a bunch, so hopefully he still has some available.

Despite what others have said (and I do genuinely appreciate their advice, despite “throwing money at the game”), his plastic also solved my issue of having the switch bracket being broken off the original ramp, since it has holes for mounting the switch as well. Ramps are pricy, and my OCD wouldnt have allowed me to replace just the one ramp for the sake of mounting the switch bracket. I killed 2 birds with one stone, and it’s been performing flawlessly since.

My original and still is original intention was to make the mod to help out Yesh.

That being said- I am a fabricator by trade so if someone asks me to make them something, I will gladly help out if I have time.

I don't own a Whitewater so I really cant comment on what is necessary or isn't.

I hope everyone understands that- what I do, I build things people ask me to build...

Before I did anything I'd have the ball come back down the ramp about every 3rd to 4th time. I tried what you described and also raising the gate which both helped significantly but I'd still have the ball come back down the ramp approximately every 8th time. Now with Moto's plastic the issue never happens so it's money well spent!

I just broke a flipper linkage on my Whitewater, and am having trouble finding the correct part number.

The manual states that the correct part is the tapered linkage part A-10656 (and the picture seems to show the tapered one).
And this is what I had on both the left and right lower flippers.

However, Marco specialties lists this as the part for pre-fliptronic flippers only (Whitewater has Fliptronic-II flippers). Additionally, their replacement full flipper assembly for Fliptronic-II flippers shows the non-tapered linkage (part A-15847).

Furthermore, a Fliptronic-II flipper rebuild kit (that I bought a long time ago) has the non-tapered linkage in it too!

So, is the Whitewater manual wrong (and I have been using the wrong linkage in my game for many years), or is Marco selling the wrong flipper parts (both separately and in their complete assemblies/rebuild-kits)?

Perhaps some Fliptronic-II flippers used the tapered linkage and some did not?

Anyone know what the correct piece is? The tapered linkage seems to allow for more flipper travel, so it's kind of important (and I certainly don't want to have different travel on the two flippers).

Thanks.

Doing a deep shop on one now that I’m a club member. Redoing the pop bumpers and wondering if anyone changes the pop skirts from white? Orange or yellow? Blue is too much. White is plain and gets dirty so fast.

What is most popular bulb color for GI? My game is all original incandescent, and I love the warm feeling it gives. Also like seeing the little twinkle of light here and there.

I really like the sunlight 2smd from comet in my other games. Wondering what warm white LED might look like. Has anyone installed those in your white water?

Sunlight looks great and cool white looks nice also and really brightens things up.

The GI OCD board is still a must if you put leds in the GI, correct?

Or do the latest leds allow for dimming?

This is on my long term to-do list for Wh20 and I'm planning to save up not just for the bulbs but the board too.

Likely going with orange skirts and orange transparent bodies. I picked up some clear and yellow bodies to try as well. Worst case I go back to original.

So it’s torn down to a bare playfield and polished it while doing a deep cleaning. I’m going to put on a protector as I’m really liking them. I’ve read most of the whole thread and saw at least a few are using them. How are you liking it?

Any other recommendations to do while I have it torn down this far? This is a keeper for me so want to bullet proof it and a playfield swap isn’t really necessary.

A couple of things you'll really want to focus on, from my (albeit limited) experience: The first, is rebuild everything on that upper playfield as perfectly as possible while it's out of the game. They give you a cutout on the main playfield to reach the underside of the upper playfield while it's installed in the game, but it's SUPER tight, and nearly impossible to do any real work, other than changing out a lightbulb. Grab a cliffy protector for the VUK ball drop location too while you're at it. Not sure if you've got a smooth surface there, but there's often a divot, and the cliffy protects and eliminates hangups there.

Also, double and triple check the operation of the ball lock/trough mechanism for "no way out;" optos included. It has a habit of cracking, and again, full access to it requires taking apart the whole upper playfield. Also, pay extra attention to the VUK back there too. It's probably the most heavily used mech in the game.

Putting those mantis ramp protectors behind the ball lock standups is a good idea, and while you're at it, buy a couple of target spares. They get hammered. I've already blown through 3 of them. The boulders also take a beating. Get boulder cliffy protectors in while you can as well.

I know this is more of an aesthetic preference, but try to avoid the temptation to place LEDs in the GI for this game. No other game (except maybe BSD during attract mode) uses the dimming feature as much as White Water does. The playfield GI is divided into thirds (lower, middle, upper), and animates in sync to the playfield lamps a TON during gameplay. If you gotta have LEDs, you gotta get GIOCD.

Hope this helps!

This is great @mbaumle Have Cliffy’s on their way along with the Mantis target protectors too. (Gave me NOS boulders not installed so want to keep them nice!) Sounds like I’m on the right path you shared as I have all the mechs apart for cleaning and new sleeves. I have to replace 3 coils that are wrong so good I checked. Will pull that rear popper setup and check it well per your suggestion.

Good to know in the GI. The machine came with LED’s already in so may have to go with GIOCD. And the nice folks who sold me the machine have extra targets to replace some wrong ones and some spares.

Yea, normally when it comes to LEDs, I'm more of a "different strokes for different folks" guy, but White Water is definitely a game I'd be adamant about telling people to either use GIOCD or incandescents. In the topper, there's no substitute. You really have to use incandescents. The waterfall effect depends on it, and the OCD board doesn't work with the topper lamps.

Some other odds and ends I've run into: Bigfoot's hand diverter 100% depends upon the ramp entrance gate working properly. There's a few more switches in-line, but that first switch is what tells bigfoot to divert to the whirlpool. I spent way too long trying to figure out why my bigfoot wasn't diverting properly after my shopout.

The disaster drop entrance opto shines through the outside of the ramp. You're probably not going to run into issues now, but down the road when the ramp starts to get dirty, the game might throw up some flags.

If you already don't have home roms for the game, I recommend it. I know some people say that it makes advancing the river class too easy, but I don't really think it does. The game is still tough as nails to get to class 6 in a single ball. Plus the home roms add some more cool lamp effects and a ball save for a more refined, more modern experience--especially helpful since on a full plunge, the ball will go straight down the middle almost every time. It also clears up some bugs, and adds more of a grace period for the secret passage and that rightmost switch next to the pop bumper nest (so you don't get a credit dot as frequently in the home environment).

Then I don't know why you'd go bluer with sunlight. If you have to, always go warm.

The most annoying thing about the home ROM is the "light-show" you get at the end of the game. In the original ROM you only got that show and music after a very high scoring game. With the home ROM, you get the show after any game higher than about 30 million (which is virtually every time). It turned it from something special and cool, to something worthless and annoying.

Most of the other changes are good, though it does make the game a bit easier. The ball save, the grace period timers, the bonus hold, all combine to make the game easier, but do make the game less frustrating.

Back to my other topic, it would really be helpful if some of you guys could tell me which is the correct flipper linkage to use (or at least which you are using). The manual seems to say that the tapered one shown below (A-10656) is the correct one, but all the web sites seem to say this is the "old" style and that the rounded one (A-15847) is correct.

The two different linkages result in different amounts of flipper travel, so it would seem to be important.

tapered (resized).jpg

rounded (resized).jpg

Wow! I honestly had no idea that was a thing. That’s honestly a shame... perhaps even enough to make me try my original roms again.

So, my game is a HUO game. Bought it from a heart sergeon who bought the game brand new for his kids back in 1992. He never did any work to it, and the flippers original to the game were the tapered kind (A-10656).

However, when I rebuilt my flippers recently, the kit came with the rounded (A-15847) from Marco. I honestly didn’t think much of it. I just thought it was the updated part. To me, the game plays pretty much the same. I can’t notice a decernable difference. I think you’re fine either way. But if you want to be 100% original, go with the tapered kind.

Jeez you guys are rally serious aboot your light shows.

Yeah, I had a "new" one in a rebuild kit, but when I put it on the right flipper (along with the left flipper still having an "old" one), the right flipper has noticeably less travel distance (which will drive me nuts). I guess that I will order some of the "old" ones. Thanks.

A couple other questions --

1) I got the "skull boulder mod" for Xmas, which I really like. I tried to install it as the directions said, with the bracket to the back of the Whirlpoool sign, but it just couldn't fit. I was eventually able to make it fit (with significant bending of the bracket) by using the screw on the FRONT of the sign. Is this normal?
Also, I have the lights connected to the Lost Mine flasher (as the instructions seem to say), but this seems inappropriate. Is this what most people are using?
I had sort of expected that the eyes would be individually connected to the lock lights, but there is only one connection for the pair of eyes. Does it have to be connected to a flasher, or can it be connected to a normal GI or switched bulb? If I connected it to the green Whitewater lock bulb (when it's waiting for you to lock ball 3), will it burn out the eyes by being ON rather than FLASHING?

2) My Lost Mine kick-out has always been a bit problematic in that it is quite unpredictable. Sometimes it hits the ball guide behind the right flipper, sometimes it hits the flipper nicely, sometimes (but rarely) it goes down the drain. I've tried some different coil strengths, but that hasn't really helped much. It's very inconsistent, and turns it into an annoying sort of "choose wisely" game. Mantis has an "improved" kicker bracket that I am temped to try, just on the chance that it will be more consistent. Has anyone solved this sort of problem, or used this new bracket?

Irratic scoops are usually how it's connected to the underside, or weld points.
I would check those things and if it inst a glaring issue a new mantis would work great. Those things are around 500% more beefy than the original.

Try to twist the scoop as much as possible when you mount it under the playfield. So that it points towards the flipper more. You can even bend the out part of the scoop down a bit on the right side so it angles the ball towards the flipper more.

As I'm stripped down and about ready to repopulate, I thought I saw some pictures with this red dome having spacers under it. Is that the case and anyone have size? I do have a new one as the old one apparently was broken due to the lack of spacers.

IMG_3234 (2) (resized).JPG

Another picture. Note pics are from tear down...

IMG_3237 (2) (resized).JPG