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(Topic ID: 57710)

WHITEWATER CLUB= Lifejackets not required


By Skypilot

7 years ago



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  • 479 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Lhyrgoif
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There are 5266 posts in this topic. You are on page 28 of 106.
#1351 5 years ago

I have a set of WH20 cab decals, but I would have to sell them and get most of my money back out of them. (I still plan to redecal the cab, but it keeps getting put off.) They didn't come cheap, unfortunately.

#1352 5 years ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

I joined the club 8 years ago. I just didn't know there was a club back then. Looks like there a good representation of WH2O around Buffalo, NY.

I have one in Fredonia.. and know a few up in Buff when examples. great Pin!

#1353 5 years ago

Just got to join this club Friday with my first ever pinball machine!

A couple of questions from a noob for you pros...

1. When you put the playfield in the upright maintenance position, is it supposed to lean on the back box via the star posts on the shooter guard? There is a lot of damage and wear on the top right of the back box where the star posts contact, and the shooter guard is cracked (it seems from letting it hit the back box too hard)

2. The back glass leans, that is it is low on the right side, so low that there is a noticeable gap in the top right corner. Suggestions for a fix?

3. A failed soft plunge to the upper playfield goes from the spine chiller sdtm. Any advice on a fix?

4. The side guard of insanity falls right after the first drop is cracked off, usually not a problem but 1 in 10 shots hits the exposed edge and falls off onto the playfield. I assume this will only make the damage worse... Any advice before buying a new ramp?

5. The kickback works, but the tip of the plastic shooter is very cracked and sharp. Can I cover it with a rubber plunger tip?

6. Any fix for a bubbled topper foil?

7. I know the flippers are supposed to be different strength, but all 3 of my flippers are the same (orange wrapper). Worth changing if they all seem to work fine?

Thanks so much for any help, this game is so much fun!

#1354 5 years ago
Quoted from offdutyninja1:

1. When you put the playfield in the upright maintenance position, is it supposed to lean on the back box via the star posts on the shooter guard? There is a lot of damage and wear on the top right of the back box where the star posts contact, and the shooter guard is cracked (it seems from letting it hit the back box too hard)

Yes! That's how it's supposed to work. A trick I picked up from Chris Hutchin's (High End Pins) photos is to put a rubber lamp cover over each of those posts/screws. It provides just a little bit of cushion.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

2. The back glass leans, that is it is low on the right side, so low that there is a noticeable gap in the top right corner. Suggestions for a fix?

Does any of the trim need to be replaced?

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

3. A failed soft plunge to the upper playfield goes from the spine chiller sdtm. Any advice on a fix?

The home ROM provides a software solution. It'll give you a ball save every time. For a hardware solution, you'd need to find some way to adjust that ramp, which may not be easy...

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

4. The side guard of insanity falls right after the first drop is cracked off, usually not a problem but 1 in 10 shots hits the exposed edge and falls off onto the playfield. I assume this will only make the damage worse... Any advice before buying a new ramp?

New ramps are sweet and seem nice and solid and like they'll hold up really well. Time will tell, of crouse

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

5. The kickback works, but the tip of the plastic shooter is very cracked and sharp. Can I cover it with a rubber plunger tip?

I don't think so, but it's a $7 part that Marco has in stock.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

6. Any fix for a bubbled topper foil?

Easy one... um.... I don't know.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

7. I know the flippers are supposed to be different strength, but all 3 of my flippers are the same (orange wrapper). Worth changing if they all seem to work fine?

There are some discrepancies in the manual, but it seems that the upper flipper has a red coil (a little weaker than an orange), and the lower right is a blue coil (a little stronger than an orange). If you think you notice any problems with those flipper being too strong or too weak, you can give a shot at replacing them, but it probably won't be very noticeable.

#1355 5 years ago

Hit vacation jackpot for the first time yesterday. Freakin' great!!!!

Was literally like a 45 mins game.

#1356 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Hit vacation jackpot for the first time yesterday. Freakin' great!!!!
Was literally like a 45 mins game.

Yea me 2 it was freaking awesome

#1357 5 years ago

Joined yesterday!
2015-09-27 15.39.29.jpg

#1358 5 years ago

Thanks for the help mot!

Anyone have a used (but intact) insanity falls ramp or whirlpool ramp?

I'll try to find a used one before I go to a repro.

#1359 5 years ago

The insanity falls ramp is supposed to have a gap on the side. It prevents slow balls from getting hung up in the low section

#1360 5 years ago

Check the part numbers on the sides of the coils match the ones in the manual.

#1361 5 years ago

Hlaj78 - correct, but over time that gap has about doubled in size! Usually the ball makes it straight down and up, but if it is bouncing around at all it hits the new edge on the way up and air balls back towards the spine chiller

#1362 5 years ago
Quoted from offdutyninja1:

Just got to join this club Friday with my first ever pinball machine!
A couple of questions from a noob for you pros...
1. When you put the playfield in the upright maintenance position, is it supposed to lean on the back box via the star posts on the shooter guard? There is a lot of damage and wear on the top right of the back box where the star posts contact, and the shooter guard is cracked (it seems from letting it hit the back box too hard)

I use shooter tips. I'm pretty sure High End Pins came up with this method too. They give you a lot more cushion than other methods.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

3. A failed soft plunge to the upper playfield goes from the spine chiller sdtm. Any advice on a fix?!

Do you have the metal ball guides still attached to the bottom of the spine chiller ramp?

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

4. The side guard of insanity falls right after the first drop is cracked off, usually not a problem but 1 in 10 shots hits the exposed edge and falls off onto the playfield. I assume this will only make the damage worse... Any advice before buying a new ramp?

I would buy new ramps if I were you.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

5. The kickback works, but the tip of the plastic shooter is very cracked and sharp. Can I cover it with a rubber plunger tip?

I wonder if this part is out there as a standard Bally/Williams part. I half-way remember looking but I don't think I ever found it.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

6. Any fix for a bubbled topper foil?

This was another thing High End Pins had some technique on but I'm not sure he's revealed it. Supposedly it's pretty tricky and you could ruin your topper if you don't know what you're doing.

Quoted from offdutyninja1:

7. I know the flippers are supposed to be different strength, but all 3 of my flippers are the same (orange wrapper). Worth changing if they all seem to work fine?

Definitely get the right coils on there. Too much power and you're running a much higher risk of destroying your game.

Also, if your green targets are still there make sure the foam inserts are still in tact. Replacing the foam will help save those targets from breaking.

#1363 5 years ago

If anyone has the two ball guides either side of No Way Out going spare can you PM me as I would like to take them off your hands. These are the last parts I need for my restoration

#1364 5 years ago

Another troubleshooting question:

My game occasionally resets when switch 36 (top bounce back target) is hit. The game is also showing a test error on that switch (as well as 26, which seems to be working fine).

Anyone encountered this problem before? Gonna dig deeper into it tonight, just looking for some advice before I do!

#1365 5 years ago

What is correct shooter spring? 10-148-1 silver or 10-148-4 green? I have heard both. My white water on a full plunge shoots the ball back to lower playfield. I played another white water this weekend and on a full plunge the ball dropped right onto the upper playfield for whirlpool or insanity falls shot. How is it supposed to be?

#1366 5 years ago

Full shot, all around the mini-pf down the ramp.
It must be some sort of skilled shot to keep it from going all the way down.

#1367 5 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

What is correct shooter spring? 10-148-1 silver or 10-148-4 green? I have heard both. My White Water on a full plunge shoots the ball back to lower playfield. I played another White Water this weekend and on a full plunge the ball dropped right onto the upper playfield for whirlpool or insanity falls shot. How is it supposed to be?

Full plunge should go all the way around, you need to make a skillful partial plunge to properly hit the upper playfield. Some lazy people cheat and put in a weak spring.

#1368 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Full plunge should go all the way around, you need to make a skillful partial plunge to properly hit the upper playfield. Some lazy people cheat and put in a weak spring.

Just had me a Deja Vu

#1369 5 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

What is correct shooter spring? 10-148-1 silver or 10-148-4 green? I have heard both. My White Water on a full plunge shoots the ball back to lower playfield. I played another White Water this weekend and on a full plunge the ball dropped right onto the upper playfield for whirlpool or insanity falls shot. How is it supposed to be?

Silver.

#1370 5 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

What is correct shooter spring? 10-148-1 silver or 10-148-4 green? I have heard both. My White Water on a full plunge shoots the ball back to lower playfield. I played another White Water this weekend and on a full plunge the ball dropped right onto the upper playfield for whirlpool or insanity falls shot. How is it supposed to be?

The manual says 10-148-1 (medium-high). Mine had a 10-148-2 (red, highest tension) and it was really hard but I switched it out for the medium-high tension under the assumption that it's the correct one. Full plunge should take you easily down the spine chiller so you have to have some skill in your plunge to keep the ball on the upper playfield (that's the whole point of the "skill shot".)

1 week later
#1371 5 years ago

Hi all. Joined the club last week, super stoked! I have a small issue I could use some guidance on.

Namely, the switch the ball rolls under upon exiting the disaster drop does not work, it just seems super loose and has probably never been replaced. I'm referring to the piece of bent wire that hangs down. In test mode I can sometimes push up and make it connect with my finger, but in actual play the ball rolls right past it and just does not connect. I figured this out after finally getting to Willy's and realizing the disaster drop insert continued to stay lit no matter how many times I hit it. DOH!

I looked up the part from the manual and found the attached photo on Marco. Looks like a cheap fix but a potential pain in the ass to do with all the layers of stuff that needs to be removed to access.

1. Is this the correct part and only thing I need?

2. I see a transistor bridging the switch between 2 of the 3 connectors. Can I remove this and re-use on the new switch? Should I be using the world's thinnest solder on it? I ordered some .015 by mistake but perhaps it could work here.

3. Seeing that there is a very small transistor involved and I would be soldering directly over a ramp/playfield, is this something that should be fixed by a proper tech? I do need to replace that particular ramp so perhaps it wouldn't be the worst thing if I accidentally dripped a bit of hot solder onto it... of course I could always just put cardboard under it and not be total idiot. Sorry, I'm working this out in my head as I go! BTW My soldering experience is exactly ONE solenoid.

Thanks in advance!

switch_2.jpg

switch.jpg

#1372 5 years ago

Just bend the metal till it works.
also thats a diode and you should be able to reuse it!
solder should be fine

#1373 5 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Hi all. Joined the club last week, super stoked! I have a small issue I could use some guidance on.
Namely, the switch the ball rolls under upon exiting the disaster drop does not work, it just seems super loose and has probably never been replaced. I'm referring to the piece of bent wire that hangs down. In test mode I can sometimes push up and make it connect with my finger, but in actual play the ball rolls right past it and just does not connect. I figured this out after finally getting to Willy's and realizing the disaster drop insert continued to stay lit no matter how many times I hit it. DOH!
I looked up the part from the manual and found the attached photo on Marco. Looks like a cheap fix but a potential pain in the ass to do with all the layers of stuff that needs to be removed to access.
1. Is this the correct part and only thing I need?
2. I see a transistor bridging the switch between 2 of the 3 connectors. Can I remove this and re-use on the new switch? Should I be using the world's thinnest solder on it? I ordered some .015 by mistake but perhaps it could work here.
3. Seeing that there is a very small transistor involved and I would be soldering directly over a ramp/playfield, is this something that should be fixed by a proper tech? I do need to replace that particular ramp so perhaps it wouldn't be the worst thing if I accidentally dripped a bit of hot solder onto it... of course I could always just put cardboard under it and not be total idiot. Sorry, I'm working this out in my head as I go! BTW My soldering experience is exactly ONE solenoid.
Thanks in advance!

switch_2.jpg switch.jpg

Like urbanledge says, the first thing to do is inspect the switch to make sure it's mounted solidly and then bend the metal switch arm down to see if that helps create a consistent connection. Get a good look at the switch so you can see how the arm is triggering the microswitch. They're pretty simple. Use an actual pinball for testing!

The if the above does not help then you probably need to replace the switch or the diode, they can both go bad. Do a google search for testing pinball switches with a multimeter, there is some good info out there on how to test everything. If I remember right you need to desolder a leg of the diode to test it (get a cheap solder sucker to remove solder if you don't already have one). Through testing you can figure out whether it's the switch or the diode, then order the part. Check your manual for the correct part number on the switch! All the info should be in there.

When it comes to soldering, I recommend removing the switch all together. There may be molex connector for it under the playfield, if so, unhook that, then remove the switch assembly entirely. Now you have room to work and don't have to risk getting solder on your playfield. Working in tight or uncomfortable spaces with a soldering iron with very little experience is a recipe for disaster.

#1374 5 years ago

Great advice, cheers.

On further review it also looks like the black plastic part of the switch itself is missing one of its two mounting screws, so I'd imagine every time the ball passes under it there's no resistance to hold it in place... so instead of closing the switch they both just just pivot upwards. Either way this thing is coming out, I tried to bend it with fine pliers but it's just way too tight under there.

I hope you're right about the molex, that would be a huge plus. Thanks again and I really appreciate the quick and thoughtful replies!

Also I just googled a picture of a transistor vs. a diode and they are completely different looking hah. Perhaps it's time to pick up a copy of electronics for dummies

#1375 5 years ago

If you end up needing to replace the entire switch, Pinball life sells them with a new diode already on there for pennies more.

#1376 5 years ago

Learn to replace the diode. It will come in handy later. I do not know how many times I get switch errors and it's just the diode.

#1377 5 years ago

Solid thank you. So when you say "the diode", is there a one size fits all standard? Or do I need to consult my schematics to find the relevant one? if anybody has a link for said diode I'd appreciate it. First donation to PS also incoming, I very much appreciate the invaluable help and sweet machines I've received from this site so far!

#1378 5 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Solid thank you. So when you say "the diode", is there a one size fits all standard? Or do I need to consult my schematics to find the relevant one? if anybody has a link for said diode I'd appreciate it. First donation to PS also incoming, I very much appreciate the invaluable help and sweet machines I've received from this site so far!

It's just a standard diode. You could run down to Radio Shack and grab a few for cheap. If you wanted to, you could also get some from Digikey for super cheap.

Lots of types out there, standard is fine. Schottky is also very popular/available and would work.

#1379 5 years ago

So, I've been putting a lot of games on my White Water over the past couple weeks. The game is really great. There's just something special about it.

I particularly enjoy being able to play it without any idea of where it's going to take me. Most games, I strategize how to get scores. This one, I just see where it goes. Lots of fun!

#1380 5 years ago

Thanks. I see you also have iron man. I can't stop playing either of them. They both just feel really pure and fun. My other machines are collecting dust and they are all pretty equally new. It's scary to think that in August I did not have any! Luckilly I enjoy working on them as much as playing them and will hopefully avoid too many future tech visits and have some extra money left over for diodes and color dmds

#1381 5 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Thanks. I see you also have Iron Man. I can't stop playing either of them. They both just feel really pure and fun. My other machines are collecting dust and they are all pretty equally new. It's scary to think that in August I did not have any! Luckilly I enjoy working on them as much as playing them and will hopefully avoid too many future tech visits and have some extra money left over for diodes and color dmds

Love Iron Man. Super fun game and a good combo with White Water. It's the second IM I've owned.

Both are keepers for me!

#1382 5 years ago

There should be two small bolts holding it in place. That is why it is super loose. Look around the bottom of your cabinet for the bolt. Once you have put one in, the ball should activate the switch. Fix the before you adjust the wire or replace the switch.

#1383 5 years ago

Could someone tell me the distance between the playfield and upper playfield? Are the posts holding it up all the same height? Anyone happen to have extra posts?

#1384 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Could someone tell me the distance between the playfield and upper playfield? Are the posts holding it up all the same height? Anyone happen to have extra posts?

I referenced the parts list to try to answer this question. I knew that the threads on it were 10-32, and I knew there were four in the game, so that quickly narrowed it down to this guy:

02-4629-1
post m-m 10-32x2 3/8 3/8rnd

It's also listed in the "Unique Parts List" on page 2-36 of the manual as:

02-4629-1
Standoff, 10-32 x 3/8

Unfortunately, searching for that part doesn't turn up much.

The distance is probably 2-3/8". Unless that's the overall length of the posts.

The four posts are identical.

Good luck!

#1385 5 years ago

Thanks mot!
Anyone able to say if it's 2 3/8 total length or spacer length?
Also looking for the wire shooter lane ramp.

1 week later
#1386 4 years ago

I'm in!!! Never thought I'd see the day. They're not up for sale too often over in the UK and the price has gone nuts on them.
Managed to get a one owner from new (although has been operated for a time) still have the original receipt from 1993.

It's absolutely filthy. Has some opto problems but should clean up ok.

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

#1387 4 years ago

Fishtales and Whitewater are perfect next to each other....

IMG_4048.jpg

#1388 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballdork:

Fishtales and Whitewater are perfect next to each other....

Indeed. I see you've got the Fishtales "pro" with the orange artwork!!!

I went all out and got the "ice white LE"

#1389 4 years ago

Hey guys, what roms are you running? I got the home roms in mine and would like to switch as my game is going on location. Is L5 the latest?

#1390 4 years ago

I've been running LH-6 since 2008.

#1391 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Hey guys, what roms are you running? I got the home roms in mine and would like to switch as my game is going on location. Is L5 the latest?

I think so. http://www.actionpinball.com/tech/ww.php

#1392 4 years ago

Yeah, I completely misread your email, the current non home rom is LH5.

#1393 4 years ago

Hi All,

Just got hold of a WH20 (yay!) and have a couple of questions. The game is in fairly good condition but there is a couple of little things I'd like to look at doing.

Firstly the game is pretty dirty, everywhere on ramps etc. From what I can see WH20 is going to be a pretty hard game to tear down completely but I just wanted to hear from anyone else who has done it. I'm not looking to completely take everything off the playfield but just enough so I can nicely clean the back of the game, habitrails etc to get it fairly clean again. Is this doable?

2 of the leg plates are knackered (bolts just spin in them). I can get replacements but how hard are these to replace?

Secondly the game is partially LED'd and I'm going to be swapping some of these around. I was thinking of doing LED's in the topper but looking at another post this appears to be a no-go as LED's burn out due to it requiring special bulbs, are there any LED kits for the topper out there I can get hold of?

Thanks!

#1394 4 years ago

LH-6 Here as well, adds a Ball Saver option, stops the 5x counter while MB starts (originally the timer just keeps running even during the animations).

#1395 4 years ago
Quoted from Archytas:

Firstly the game is pretty dirty, everywhere on ramps etc. From what I can see WH20 is going to be a pretty hard game to tear down completely but I just wanted to hear from anyone else who has done it. I'm not looking to completely take everything off the playfield but just enough so I can nicely clean the back of the game, habitrails etc to get it fairly clean again. Is this doable?

There are instructions in the manual for removing the upper playfield, which is surprisingly not that difficult.

Quoted from Archytas:

2 of the leg plates are knackered (bolts just spin in them). I can get replacements but how hard are these to replace?

Easy!

Quoted from Archytas:

Secondly the game is partially LED'd and I'm going to be swapping some of these around. I was thinking of doing LED's in the topper but looking at another post this appears to be a no-go as LED's burn out due to it requiring special bulbs, are there any LED kits for the topper out there I can get hold of?

Those bulbs are (I think) 12 volts instead of the normal 5. From what I've read, there are not LEDs available that provide the same visual effect as incandescent bulbs.

#1396 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

There are instructions in the manual for removing the upper playfield, which is surprisingly not that difficult.

Easy!

Those bulbs are (I think) 12 volts instead of the normal 5. From what I've read, there are not LEDs available that provide the same visual effect as incandescent bulbs.

Thanks dude, looks like I need to track down a manual then! I will also replace the leg plates and leave the topper as is.

#1397 4 years ago
Quoted from Archytas:

Firstly the game is pretty dirty, everywhere on ramps etc. From what I can see WH20 is going to be a pretty hard game to tear down completely but I just wanted to hear from anyone else who has done it. I'm not looking to completely take everything off the playfield but just enough so I can nicely clean the back of the game, habitrails etc to get it fairly clean again. Is this doable?

It's really necessary to remove the upper playfield at least once a year or so to clean back there. This is also a good time to deal with LEDs in the upper playfield, Cliffy protectors, and other MODs. To do it right you're going to need at least 3 hours or so. There are about a dozen connectors that need to be unconnected so make sure you label them (I used numbered stickers from the electric dept of the hardware store). When you pull off the playfield be very slow and make sure you don't have any connections that are still connected. If you get resistance go back and check your work. Once you get all the right connections labled the reassembly and subsequent removals will go a lot faster.

I typcially remove all the mountains and ramps and the most of the plastics when I do a full teardown. Otherwise you won't be able to adequately reach all the spots that need cleaned. Take lots of pictures because there is hardware everywhere and much of it is specialized. I usually get a large rectangular shelf board (about the size of the playfield) and put it next to the game and when I remove parts from the playfeild I put them in the corresponding area of the board. That makes things a lot easeir (as long as the cat or a kid doesn't tamper with your board! That's why you take pictures!)

#1398 4 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

It's really necessary to remove the upper playfield at least once a year or so to clean back there. This is also a good time to deal with LEDs in the upper playfield, Cliffy protectors, and other MODs. To do it right you're going to need at least 3 hours or so. There are about a dozen connectors that need to be unconnected so make sure you label them (I used numbered stickers from the electric dept of the hardware store). When you pull off the playfield be very slow and make sure you don't have any connections that are still connected. If you get resistance go back and check your work. Once you get all the right connections labled the reassembly and subsequent removals will go a lot faster.

Thanks, I plan on doing a partial teardown which is no problem as the first game I decided to do this on was a BSD (most people lament it for being difficult to pull apart due to all the ramps, WH20 looks to be about the same in terms of difficulty). Likely will do it over a weekend or I have a week off around Christmas so might do it then, I plan on making it my 'Winter project' to pull a lot of the stuff of the top, clean it, re-LED it (previous owner put in LED's in most places but are all super brights which in some cases are too much so will swap out with frosty ones) and put in a few mods, I plan to fit mantis protectors behind the lock targets as the plastics here are totally smashed and may do cliffys as well (I think the WH20 is the most I've ever seen in a set, 7 pieces!). I've already put in a spare color DMD I have (came out my old JM when I sold it but looks way better in WH20) and done the backbox LED's and helpfully someone has already put in a battery holder so nothing to do there. Topper is in good nick, just has the usual fade. I will likely put some pictures up once I've done all the work in a few months time.

I like the idea of the shelf board, I generally lay the parts out on the floor as I have a bit of space around the games in the rough position where they sit on the playfield but these often get moved around during the course of the rebuild which is a nuisance so a board would be a good solution.

#1399 4 years ago
Quoted from Archytas:

I was thinking of doing LED's in the topper but looking at another post this appears to be a no-go as LED's burn out due to it requiring special bulbs, are there any LED kits for the topper out there I can get hold of?
Thanks!

Don't bother. You'll lose the shimmering effect with LED bulbs. Stick with the incandescents. You can buy them easily from Digi key for .90 each.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/194/CM194-ND/4175854

#1400 4 years ago

Archytas. Looks like we got our WH20'sat the same time.
I've already stripped mine down and plan on sticking a few pics up in the shop logs thread in pinball info in the next couple of days.
It's not too bad to strip compared to some I've done. It's all ramps. Once they're off the playfields bare!!! Took me about 3 hours to get to this state and I was slow

image.jpeg

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