No, there wouldn't be a direct shot (just like the regular "secret passage"). I suspect it would mostly bounce in off of shots to the lock targets. It wouldn't be something to aim for, it would just happen. Anyway, trying for the Secret passage is a bad plan, it's often a drain shot.

No, there is only one GI bulb that would need to be removed, the others could stay and a channel could still fit (and that one GI bulb is not really doing a whole lot anyway - it's pretty far back).

To be clear, I'm not trying to make the game "easier", just give it something extra (without requiring a massive change or re-writing software).

Just... no.

Thanks for the well thought out and detailed response. Exactly the kind of insight I was hoping for.

We've got lots of people making "mods" which are nothing but a piece of plastic with an LED attached. Nobody seems to make mods that actually affect the gameplay. This seems like an opportunity to do that.

Maybe it's too ambitious, or maybe it just won't work, but I think it's worthy of discussion.

The entrance you're describing wouldn't be so much different from the "Asylum" hole in BSD. On that game, it's also in the upper left with absolutely no clean way to shoot it. Only a lucky rebound will get you in the hole.

It's an interesting prospect, but I kinda like the rarity of both Goldrush Multiball and the secret passage. It is a secret, after all. I'd also worry about how a shot through the boulder garden or disaster drop would effect the newly crafted hole in that area. I feel like you would never get a clean orbit exit.

Because there is no way to shoot the new passage directly, it would be unlikely to really increase Goldrush by that much. You'd probably hit the passage once per game (or less). Furthermore, if it really did increase the Goldrush frequency by too much, it would auto-adjust to where you would no longer be spotted the flashlight at the game start - IMO this would be beneficial (as it makes that "story" better).

I've looked at how the ball comes around that loop, and I don't think it would affect it very much, as it's the upper part of that guide that really does the work to direct the ball. It might make the Boulder Garden shot a little more tight, in that you might hit the new "edge" there in some cases, but I doubt it would be a big issue. It's possible that a small rubber post would be beneficial to avoid it being "clunky" at that spot, but I wouldn't know until I tried.

I do wish that I had an extra one of those ball guides that I could use as a test (letting me go back to the original if the whole thing is a failure). Anyone know of a source for that left side metal ball guide? Even a beat-up one would be helpful.

The real problem is getting the ball to feed into the Lost Mine kicker housing in such a way that the kicker still directs the ball back to the playfield properly. Fortunately, the kicker housing is readily available (and I already have an extra one), so if I screw it up it's not a disaster.

I believe that is intentional... I believe most people, like myself have no interest in altering or changing the dynamics or gameplay.
But the beauty is, you can do whatever you want with your game, and you shouldn't get butt-hurt if others are not onboard with it.

I'm not butt-hurt. I was actually looking for insight / help / ideas / knowledge. His "just say no" comment was not really helpful.

I fully expected (many?) people to be against the idea, and I'm not even sure yet that I am going to try it. I just wanted to start the discussion - hoping that others would have some useful input.

If he had provided some reasons why he was against it, or why it would be too hard, or why it wouldn't work - I'd have been happy to listen / discuss it.

Not being confrontational, or downplaying your creativity here, just my opinion... I feel like I can get the existing shot when I want to within a few shots. I usually do it just to clear the credit dot. I think the amount of work you're talking about to do basically nothing is not worth it. I'm all for improvements, but this seems like a lot of work to basically accomplish nothing.

Yeah, just to be clear, my goal is to utilize the empty space behind the RIVER targets - not really to make the Secret Passage easier to get.

It just seemed to make sense to "hack" the secret passage mechanism in the software (so that you'd get both a call-out and a reward). The fact that it might help to keep the credit dot away is just a bonus. If that causes problems (and I doubt that it would), then I could just not connect the switch.

Using that space to work with the Lost Mine and such seems pretty reasonable, and might also result in making the auto-adjust mechanism giving you the flashlight sequence. It's always sort of annoyed me that you almost never see that.

twin secret passages.. post pics when you do it!

There is a reason for that. While sticking toys on the play field and creating ball traps and clown puke is stupid, it is easily reversed. Most people will still buy a machine with stupid mods they don't want because they can remove them. Doing what your suggesting is the antithesis of that. It's essentially non reversible or, at best, incredibly hard to reverse. You will eventually sell the game. Doing things like you suggest will make most buyers walk away, or severely cut down the price they will pay since they will need to find parts from a donor to fix the issues you'd create.

it was very helpful, its a bad idea, that's al' that needed to be said. but since you want more look up.

I think it sounds fun, probably spend the most time tweaking the orbit guide rail.. I built mine from mantis amusement parts, you might do that and keep your original intact.. To return it to original you'd just swap that back in.

That's more helpful, thanks.

To respond, no, it's pretty unlikely that I will ever sell the machine (I've owned it for 25 years now), probably more likely that I'll be buried in it (or that my kids will fight for it after I'm dead).

And my goal is to actually make this quite reversible. Hopefully, there will only be two parts that need to be adjusted / replaced - the ball guide and the kickout bracket. The change to the kickout bracket would be done on a replacement one anyway (and they are easy to swap out).

Similarly, I would prefer to get another ball guide to use as a test (so that I can go back to the original one if need be), but haven't yet found a source for one. This is the part that concerns me the most for starting the project.

The other changes that would be needed are simply pulling a GI bulb (that can easily be re-inserted), and re-routing the wires for two flashers (that can also be easily restored). I would need to fabricate a plastic channel (maybe by using my old ramps, or maybe by 3D printing it), but this could be inserted and removed as needed.

Fortunately, I can start with modifying the replacement kickout bracket first. This will go a long way to telling me if the whole idea is feasible or not.

Just... No.

Well, you've certainly convinced me now...hard to ignore such well thought out objections.

I'd try doing it something like Visual Pinball first before trying to do it IRL. It would probably give you a decent idea of how it will play.

Well, after doing some more measuring and analysis, I've some to the conclusion that it just won't work. The amount of the kickout bracket that I would have to cut away would render it unable to direct the ball back to the playfield.

If the bracket were angled a bit more to the center of the playfield (so that the ball could fall into the bracket more from the side rather than mostly from the back), it would have worked.

The other issues could have been resolved pretty easily. Oh well, it was worth the investigation anyway.

How does the kickout bracket for Attack From Mars work where the ball can fall into it from behind as well as from the front? I don't own an AFM so I have never seen how this kickout works underneath.

Edit: I found the bracket from AFM, I can see how they do that. I would need a bracket that somehow combines the functionality of the WH20 one with the funtionality of the AFM one. Just not going to happen...

I’ve always been impressed by the simple ingenuity of the AFM design. That scoop with access in the front and rear is awesome. So is the ball lock and the mothership scoop protected by the 3-bank and then single drop target. So simple yet clever. MM and AFM were just about the zenith of 90s pinball, I think.

As Pinkitten says above, the design is simple and effective. There's no extra switch to tell the machine that the ball entered the scoop from the rear (so don't award Stroke of Luck). The code looks to see whether a bumper has been triggered within a certain time-frame, and if so, assumes the ball entered from the rear.

Well ... not sure these are the same thing. Apparently they are "always on" and can be made to "flash" by connecting the third wire to a coil or flasher ground. Didn't work as expected when I just wired them in parallel with the insert lights, they were dim, always on didn't follow the "river" lights as they blinked.

Lamp matrix runs on a different voltage (6 DC vs 6.3 AC) so the polarity matters. Try swapping the leads and see if it works.

Yeah, I can give it a try. This is what they said when I asked :

we never trie this, are used normal to use on GI
you only can trie out self if it work, but perhaps Problem that ground not always on

It may be designed only for 6.3 and not 6v then.

Hi all, just got my 1st WH20 a few days ago. Can someone tell me how the Bigfoot’s Cave mountain is attached to the shooter lane wire form? My replacement has the 2 screw holes to attach it to the ramp and one more up top. Is there a special bracket for the wire form? The one I got with the game was broken and Velcro taped in place. Thanks!

All you need is: a zip tie.

Screenshot_20220328-214140_Chrome (resized).jpg

Easy enough! Thanks!

Just had a pretty amazing game. I completed the Whirlpool Mode over and over and over again. I never knew before that it maxed out at 53 milliion per shot (with 100 mil for the completion bonus).

Before this that I had only gotten to the 60 million bonus point (a couple of times). This game I completed the 100 million bonus several times (I think it was 6, but not really certain).

I got into a great rhythm of dead bouncing over to the left flipper from out of the mine and then into No Way Out to the Whirlpool. Final game total was almost 3 Billion. Would have been better, but I drained ball 3 with Extra Ball and the 3rd lock both lit.

Is the game really 77 inches tall with the topper? I thought it was taller and just wanted to double check the height and couldn't find anything in the thread.

TIA

Sounds like you finally got all those ramps fitted pretty good!

Don't forget it will vary with how your leg levellers are set.

Yep, it plays really nice now - very smooth. It was a lot of (frustrating) work, but it turned out great in the end.

Mines about 82.5"

Hi guys, having an issue with a pretty new to me WH20. When I shoot Bigfoot Bluff, the game does not always do what it’s supposed to. For example if whirlpool award is not lit, I don’t see the vacation planner. Also I can’t get a raft advance when that hazard is lit. It will however award whatever whirlpool award is lit (for example I can start Man Overboard or 5X pf etc.), but during Whirlpool Challenge it won’t award those shots. The ramp switch tests fine and the diverter acts as it should too.

I did just remove all mountains, ramps, and the upper pf to give her a good cleaning and wax. Didn’t touch anything inside the back box. Anything I may have messed up to get this behavior?

Thanks all.

Sounds like a problem with the entrance switch on the Bigfoot ramp.

Have you checked both the entrance switch and the switch (leading to the diverter) that is under the mountain?

Boom, thank you!

Forgot about that switch under the mountain. Removed the mountain and had a look. Lo and behold a wire had popped off at the solder joint. All good now. I had put about 20 games on it trying to troubleshoot the issue. I’m surprised it didn’t throw a credit dot…

Again, much appreciated!

Glad I could help, and that it was an easy fix. The credit dot probably would have shown up after a few more games.

Just joined the club! When does Bigfoot not divert the ball? Seems he always does

Congratulations! It’s an amazing game! He doesn’t divert the ball when you are in “Hot Foot”.

Ok thats what I thought, just couldn't hit the shot when I was in hot foot LOL . Of course

Lol!

Couldn’t resist-you need some lights:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1171-pinball-z/02183-white-water-bigfoot-spotlight-amp-hot-foot-lighting-

Yeah thought about getting that !

Played a couple games over lunch... Got a new Insanity Falls record!

IMG_0871 (resized).jpeg

What have others achieved?

I'm not at home right now, but I believe my record sits at 54. (on a 5 billion point game).

Edit: just checked and it is 53, not 54.

20220413_180705.jpg

20220413_180737.jpg

I have a couple ball hangs but trouble tracking down the exact cause . Wondering if there is any common things to look for . Game is completely restored and has the new thicker ramps and subway. So sometimes the ball gets hung in the lost mine .. in almost feel like it's getting stuck between the vuk and the ramp but I can't see it .

Also sometimes a ball will hang or lock out of order in the 3 ball lock . Optos seems fine and works 95% of the time . Again hard to see what's happening back there.

When I put in the new thicker subway, I had to shave some plastic off of the opening where it connects to the VUK, as the ball would get hung up there.

Since you say that you have the new ramps, it is likely that you have a similar problem. If you open the coin door and loook at that spot with a flashlight, you should be able to see if a ball is hung up there.

Not sure what you mean about a ball "locks out of order"?

Make sure you have the right ball popper plunger and cup in the vuk at the ball lock. On mine the previous owner had put in a plunger with the wrong length and bent the stop bracket end in an attempt to make it the right length to properly catch the ball and trigger the opto at the end of the travel.
Never worked right 100% of the time until I put in the right parts.

Thanks , yeah it said for example ball locked when it comes as the second ..seems on ocassion they get hung up . I'll double check the plunger but I am sure it's the right one , guy who restored it is pretty meticulous . Likely you are right about shaving it , did you shave the entire left side or a small section ?

Don't know about the locking, but for the subway I shaved off a bit on the left side, just enough to make the opening a bit larger. It took a couple of tries, but it wasn't hard. Best thing to do is with the playfield lowered into position, look through the coin door with a flashlight to see exactly where the ball is stuck.