(Topic ID: 57710)

WHITEWATER CLUB= Lifejackets not required

By Skypilot

10 years ago


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#6001 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Well LEDs CAN dim for certain but strictly for the purposes of the discussion specfic to WPC pinball machines - they don't without flickering unless you use a 3rd party board. If the OCD boards are not readily available I did read a comment in some other thread recently that there are similar products available that are made in the EU somewhere but I don't remember the name of it.
Ghosting is completely different and happens to controlled lamps, not GI. I don't remember the technical reasons too clearly but sufficit to say that it is caused by the matrixed / pulsed circuit design. These can usually be eliminated by using non-ghosting LEDs if you don't want the expense of an OCD or OCD like board and can live with the rapid on/off timing of an LED versus the smoothed ramp up/down you can get from the OCD type board. Some people's eyes are bothered by the flickering and others seem to be immune to it.

My understanding of ghosting is that there is a very small amount of voltage at an insert if for example another one downstream is on.

For a bulb, this is not enough voltage to turn it on. For an LED, it is barely enough to turn it on very dimly.

A non ghosting LED has a higher threshold for turning on, so it just ignores low amounts of voltage.

#6002 2 years ago

Replaced my bigfoot board and he works great now. While I was in there, since you guys were talking about it, I removed the led g.i. bulbs that came in the game, and put incandescents in. It really does look a lot better. I had forgotten about the cool lighting effects until reading the above comments.
Only thing I'm not sure about is how dim the backbox looks. I don't remember it looking so dark on my last whitewater, but maybe it's just because I'm so used to LEDs now.

#6003 2 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Ill find out more later but game I may get gives a sound rom error message. Who sells sound roms for Wh20? thx....thinking it just one chip?

Matts Basement or something like that is where I get all my ROMS

#6004 2 years ago

Any idea what the "install 5 ball" option does in the settings and if there are any benefits to it?

Thanks!

#6005 2 years ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Any idea what the "install 5 ball" option does in the settings and if there are any benefits to it?
Thanks!

It makes it so you get turns each game you play, instead of three. I hate it and consider it cheating, but some like it to allow them to progress more into the ruleset.

It has nothing to do with putting more balls physically into the game.

-1
#6006 2 years ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Any idea what the "install 5 ball" option does in the settings and if there are any benefits to it?
Thanks!

A game lasts longer and you'll have more progress... Not sure what you're asking that's not obvious.

#6007 2 years ago
Quoted from EStroh:

A game lasts longer and you'll have more progress... Not sure what you're asking that's not obvious.

First time someone encounters this language in the menus it might be read as "literally put 5 balls into the game"

Not "install the software code to give the player 5 attempts per game"

#6008 2 years ago

Thanks, the wording is odd. You would assume it would say “balls per game”

Quoted from FlippyD:

First time someone encounters this language in the menus it might be read as "literally put 5 balls into the game"
Not "install the software code to give the player 5 attempts per game"

#6009 2 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

First time someone encounters this language in the menus it might be read as "literally put 5 balls into the game"

And people have tried putting more balls in their game. Recently posted here on Pinside.

It's the number of balls per play. 3 or 5. Not how many balls to put in the game.

LTG : )

#6010 2 years ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Thanks, the wording is odd.

Yup. Came here to say just that. Same goes for “install novelty” or “install extra hard”

The “install” settings are just a way for the game to broadly change a bunch of settings that it feels works best with, say, 5 ball play.

Example: you can easily just change balls per game setting over to 5–and that’s all it will change, but selecting “install 5 balls” will not only change the balls per game, but also feature settings like the making the number of “disaster drops” to light extra ball more difficult. It’s just a way to quickly equalize all settings so the operator doesn’t have to.

Hope that clarifies the language a bit.

#6011 2 years ago

Thank you for your nice, patient, and detailed explanation. I searched, but hopefully someone will come back to this with the same question and see your answer. Is there any site or reference where all the settings are documented? Like install extra easy does exactly……

Thanks again.

Quoted from mbaumle:

Yup. Came here to say just that. Same goes for “install novelty” or “install extra hard”
The “install” settings are just a way for the game to broadly change a bunch of settings that it feels works best with, say, 5 ball play.
Example: you can easily just change balls per game setting over to 5–and that’s all it will change, but selecting “install 5 balls” will not only change the balls per game, but also feature settings like the making the number of “disaster drops” to light extra ball more difficult. It’s just a way to quickly equalize all settings so the operator doesn’t have to.
Hope that clarifies the language a bit.

#6012 2 years ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Thank you for your nice, patient, and detailed explanation. I searched, but hopefully someone will come back to this with the same question and see your answer. Is there any site or reference where all the settings are documented? Like install extra easy does exactly……
Thanks again.

The explanations of all the settings are in the manual. The settings for "extra easy, easy, etc. are on page 1-19.

If you don't have a manual you can download it here.
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2768

#6013 2 years ago

Anyone have any experience with the LED conversion kits?

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/whitewater-led-kit
https://cointaker.com/products/whitewater-premium-led-kit
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/05-1845
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/white-water-pinball-ultimate-led-kit-stock-mountains

I have pinstadiums on it right now. While I like the amount of light it provides, it buts up against the top of insanity falls and some of the mountains.

Thanks in advance.

#6014 2 years ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

Anyone have any experience with the LED conversion kits?
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/whitewater-led-kit
https://cointaker.com/products/whitewater-premium-led-kit
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/05-1845
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/white-water-pinball-ultimate-led-kit-stock-mountains
I have pinstadiums on it right now. While I like the amount of light it provides, it buts up against the top of insanity falls and some of the mountains.
Thanks in advance.

pinstadium suck. Get some comets and call it a day

#6015 2 years ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

Anyone have any experience with the LED conversion kits?
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/whitewater-led-kit
https://cointaker.com/products/whitewater-premium-led-kit
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/05-1845
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/white-water-pinball-ultimate-led-kit-stock-mountains
I have pinstadiums on it right now. While I like the amount of light it provides, it buts up against the top of insanity falls and some of the mountains.
Thanks in advance.

Check out my recent post related to this: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/120#post-6423286

Note that this was just focusing on GI. For inserts, go with kit recommendations.

#6016 2 years ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

Anyone have any experience with the LED conversion kits?
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/whitewater-led-kit
https://cointaker.com/products/whitewater-premium-led-kit
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/05-1845
https://www.pinballbulbs.com/products/white-water-pinball-ultimate-led-kit-stock-mountains
I have pinstadiums on it right now. While I like the amount of light it provides, it buts up against the top of insanity falls and some of the mountains.
Thanks in advance.

Not an ideal game for Pinstadiums for those reasons, I don't really like kits to convert games and keep in mind you'll need to turn off GI dimming if you convert it to LEDs without the GIOCD board.

#6017 2 years ago

Thanks to all above for feedback.

Apologies for the additional question. Would I need both the GI OCD and LED OCD to keep it looking like factory settings?

http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7
http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=22

Thanks again

Quoted from bobukcat:

Not an ideal game for Pinstadiums for those reasons, I don't really like kits to convert games and keep in mind you'll need to turn off GI dimming if you convert it to LEDs without the GIOCD board.

#6018 2 years ago

You would need both.

#6019 2 years ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

Thanks to all above for feedback.
Apologies for the additional question. Would I need both the GI OCD and LED OCD to keep it looking like factory settings?
http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7
http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=22
Thanks again

Minimally get the gi ocd for gi dimming effects.
The led ocd is so the inserts don't appear so binary, but I don't think there are any dimming effects on the inserts.

I have both and they work and look great for me.

#6020 2 years ago
Quoted from daveyvandy:

Minimally get the gi ocd for gi dimming effects.
The led ocd is so the inserts don't appear so binary, but I don't think there are any dimming effects on the inserts.
I have both and they work and look great for me.

Actually, the majority of the dimming effects are in the inserts. GI is mostly on all the time but inserts are constantly turning on/off with smooth transition effects.

#6021 2 years ago

I just installed the LED ROM. Its supposed to help a lot. I havent got to try it that much yet. Looks like gi only flickers twice on ball change.

1 week later
#6022 2 years ago

You all have short Memory's....Way back when and before we had the notion of Shrinkflation, a standard game was 5 Balls.
This way way before WH20 came on the scene.
They went from 5 Balls down to 3 instead of increasing the price...Something of an expensive Coin slot update at the time.
Then came the increases to where we are now $2 for 3 Balls.
I have always had my games on 5 balls and if you think 3 Balls is the norm then you also have no idea of how you have all bean Conned just like what the FED is doing now printing Money back by ZERO.
Time to make a stand against this shit

#6023 2 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

You all have short Memory's....Way back when and before we had the notion of Shrinkflation, a standard game was 5 Balls.
This way way before WH20 came on the scene.
They went from 5 Balls down to 3 instead of increasing the price...Something of an expensive Coin slot update at the time.
Then came the increases to where we are now $2 for 3 Balls.
I have always had my games on 5 balls and if you think 3 Balls is the norm then you also have no idea of how you have all bean Conned just like what the FED is doing now printing Money back by ZERO.
Time to make a stand against this shit

Uhhhhhhhh....ok?

#6024 2 years ago

Joining the club as soon as I find one local. Couple questions:

Which speaker light kit do I buy for Wh20.
Best color dmd?
Ill prob add the skull mountain and the bigfoot lighting.

MIke

#6025 2 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

You all have short Memory's....Way back when and before we had the notion of Shrinkflation, a standard game was 5 Balls.
This way way before WH20 came on the scene.
They went from 5 Balls down to 3 instead of increasing the price...Something of an expensive Coin slot update at the time.
Then came the increases to where we are now $2 for 3 Balls.
I have always had my games on 5 balls and if you think 3 Balls is the norm then you also have no idea of how you have all bean Conned just like what the FED is doing now printing Money back by ZERO.
Time to make a stand against this shit

Yeah,maybe that USED to be standard, but the rulesets on more recent games is centered around 3. Sometimes we need to let go of the past 3 balls for life!
#5ballsischeating

#6026 2 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

...
3 balls for life!
#5ballsischeating

You got 3 balls? I thought standard had been 2 since humans evolved from fishes. 3, that's some crazy Total Recall inspired stuff!

#6027 2 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

You got 3 balls?

How do you think I learned to juggle??

#6028 2 years ago

<bloc

Quoted from billsfanmd:Joining the club as soon as I find one local. Couple questions:
Which speaker light kit do I buy for Wh20.
Best color dmd?
Ill prob add the skull mountain and the bigfoot lighting.
MIke

My suggestion would be to contact:

https://lightedpinballmods.com/

and see if they have a speaker light kit for Wh20. Be sure to let them know if you are planning on using the original size speakers in your game (one small one and one larger one) or if you are using upgraded speakers that are both 5.25".

If you ARE planning on using two 5.25" speakers....you could instead get a bare speaker panel from here:

https://virtuapin.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=114&zenid=b2k405tti5r731os0qst3p5jr3

transfer your DMD, speakers and plastic cover over and add my Deluxe 5.25" speaker light kits.....

http://www.speakerlightkits.com/Type-13.html

Doing this would be considered a DIY project as far as I am concerned. The replacement panel is sized and drilled out just like an original WPC speaker panel (except it has two 5.25" speaker holes). My type 13 light rings line up and mount as they should on the panel. However, you would be responsible for finding the 120vac to power my type 13 light kit in your game. If you would contact me in advance I may be able to include a power cable for you to help you out a bit with that connection. I'm not really sure how that would look with the Wh20, but it ended up and looked quite nice in a STTNG.

​Any other speaker light attempts in Bally / Williams games have always looked pretty bad in my opinion. No matter what method people try (besides Lighted Pinball Mods method or the DIY panel replacement I explained above) you can always tell the speaker panel has one large speaker hole and one small speaker hole and that just looks stupid....far worse than it looks with no light kit at all in my opinion. The only exception I have seen to that is on T2, where the small, red light ring type speaker lights look like the Terminators eye glowing with the speaker panel plastic cover design.

Doug (SpeakerLightKits.com)

#6029 2 years ago

Anyone want to sell me a boulder shooter rod?

#6030 2 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

You all have short Memory's....Way back when and before we had the notion of Shrinkflation, a standard game was 5 Balls.
This way way before WH20 came on the scene.
They went from 5 Balls down to 3 instead of increasing the price...Something of an expensive Coin slot update at the time.
Then came the increases to where we are now $2 for 3 Balls.
I have always had my games on 5 balls and if you think 3 Balls is the norm then you also have no idea of how you have all bean Conned just like what the FED is doing now printing Money back by ZERO.
Time to make a stand against this shit

O h m y G O O D N E S S !!. All these years I have been putting coins (most of my games take German marks) in my games not realizing I have been robbing myself blind because I have them all on three balls (even my EM games !!&$!!). Thanks so much for pointing this out. You really need to go public about this because I’m not sure enough people know. I was completely in the dark.

#6031 2 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Damn, that stinks. Good to know though, I appreciate it. Is there any chance someone has a good picture of that area with the switch/bracket intact? I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!

This isn't a good picture, but it is something you need to do if you want to avoid it breaking again once you get a new one or rig up a way to mount the existing one (which you can do).

#6032 2 years ago

After a year of trying to pick up my friend's Whitewater, I finally picked it up. It's going to need a new PF, plastics, ramps, etc. I knew that going in. I've also been thinking about getting a Pinsound board and some Pin Stadium lights. Does anyone have these installed? What are your thoughts? I've seen mixed reviews on the Pinsound.

Also if anyone has any PF parts available I am in the market.

#6033 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

After a year of trying to pick up my friend's Whitewater, I finally picked it up. It's going to need a new PF, plastics, ramps, etc. I knew that going in. I've also been thinking about getting a Pinsound board and some Pin Stadium lights. Does anyone have these installed? What are your thoughts? I've seen mixed reviews on the Pinsound.
Also if anyone has any PF parts available I am in the market.

I have the pinound board installed. Adds a little to the game but not much imo. Sounds better of course. It's also a 400 dollar upgrade.

I think pinstaduims wouldn't looks good with all of the ramps right below them. You can briten the game up with leds. Cool whites around the water and warm whites under mountains is what I did.

I also have the pinduo for the left ramp. Adds a nice light show during attract mod and when you make the ramp.

Also did the hot foot mod. Helps add light to big foot.

#6034 2 years ago

going to buy some mods for my new wh20...lmk if anyone has a skull mountain, boulder shooter rod or the alt translite they bought and never installed

#6035 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

After a year of trying to pick up my friend's Whitewater, I finally picked it up. It's going to need a new PF, plastics, ramps, etc. I knew that going in. I've also been thinking about getting a Pinsound board and some Pin Stadium lights. Does anyone have these installed? What are your thoughts? I've seen mixed reviews on the Pinsound.
Also if anyone has any PF parts available I am in the market.

Here's my take on pin stadiums for wh20: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whitewater-club-lifejackets-not-required/page/120#post-6423286

#6036 2 years ago

Thanks for the input. I love what Pinsound does for Doctor Who and was hoping it would be equally impressive for WWH2O, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

#6037 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Thanks for the input. I love what Pinsound does for Doctor Who and was hoping it would be equally impressive for WWH2O, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I should have some parts to contribute. I’ve been gradually adding new parts and ramps to various areas to make it a full restoration, and I have some original parts that are in good shape. Are you missing anything specific? Do you have a decent dome for the topper? I’m replacing mine with a new one and my dome on Fish Tales, so I have a decent original one. Only prob is I’m guessing it’s $25 or so to box and ship. Message me and I’ll try to help.

#6038 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Thanks for the input. I love what Pinsound does for Doctor Who and was hoping it would be equally impressive for WWH2O, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I have the Pinsound in mine with the newly recorded (stereo) re-orchestrations of all the music. I love it.

#6039 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Also if anyone has any PF parts available I am in the market.

Are you looking for just new parts, or good used?

#6040 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

I should have some parts to contribute. I’ve been gradually adding new parts and ramps to various areas to make it a full restoration, and I have some original parts that are in good shape. Are you missing anything specific? Do you have a decent dome for the topper? I’m replacing mine with a new one and my dome on Fish Tales, so I have a decent original one. Only prob is I’m guessing it’s $25 or so to box and ship. Message me and I’ll try to help.

Quoted from TheOnlyest:

Are you looking for just new parts, or good used?

Good question, perhaps for now maybe just some good used. I keep flip flopping and my OCD tends to get the better of me. I eventually want to do a full restoration: new or restored PF, and the works, but I'd also like to play it for a bit beforehand.

This one is such a beater, chipped and sunken inserts, drywall screws in replacement of missing posts, a broken ramp and missing ramp protector at Disaster Drop....

0-2 (resized).jpeg0-2 (resized).jpeg
#6041 2 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Good question, perhaps for now maybe just some good used. I keep flip flopping and my OCD tends to get the better of me. I eventually want to do a full restoration: new or restored PF, and the works, but I'd also like to play it for a bit beforehand.
This one is such a beater, chipped and sunken inserts, drywall screws in replacement of missing posts, a broken ramp and missing ramp protector at Disaster Drop....[quoted image]

Geez, and I thought mine was a turd when I got it! I dont know how you'd even play that thing, it would be like bowling on a dirt road!
Anyway, I dont know if you've priced parts yet, but a set of ramps and boulders alone is a grand! This is a VERY expensive game to restore!!
I have some nice used ramps and other misc bits laying around, hit me up if you ever wanna discuss.

#6042 2 years ago
Quoted from TheOnlyest:

Geez, and I thought mine was a turd when I got it! I dont know how you'd even play that thing, it would be like bowling on a dirt road!
Anyway, I dont know if you've priced parts yet, but a set of ramps and boulders alone is a grand! This is a VERY expensive game to restore!!
I have some nice used ramps and other misc bits laying around, hit me up if you ever wanna discuss.

Oh I know, looking at over 2K just to do the PF stuff. My OCD is terrible though and the thought of not doing a 100% restoration makes me twitch. I posted in my local forum and have had a couple of nice PF's offered up, so maybe some high quality used for now as the cab also needs some love.

I knew I would be dropping some $$ when I grabbed it. I definitely overpaid given I have seen some others with toppers come up for not much more, but I also kind of wanted to bring this one back to life.

#6043 2 years ago

Ahhh yes a drywall screw, a classic.
Personally I wouldn't be putting Pukestadiums on their to see everything better

#6044 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Ahhh yes a drywall screw, a classic.
Personally I wouldn't be putting Pukestadiums on their to see everything better

Hahahahaha yeah, my question re Pinstadium is that I have terrible low light vision so I prefer a bright PF. I know they are not for everyone, but when you have night blindness and love pinball it can be a bit rough with some of the warm whites, etc out there. I HATE my MBr Classic because of the lighting and wil go with the Pin Stadiums for that eventually.

#6045 2 years ago
Quoted from EStroh:

I have the Pinsound in mine with the newly recorded (stereo) re-orchestrations of all the music. I love it.

Anywhere online where one can here the new music and callouts? I didn't realize that this had finally been finished. Great to hear (so to speak)

#6046 2 years ago

Used Vid's guide to cheap led targets and started lighting them on my Wh2o.

Finished the bounceback and hotfoot targets. I still need to complete the River targets. Built them to run off the associated lamp inserts, so they wont light up until hit.

#6047 2 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Anywhere online where one can here the new music and callouts? I didn't realize that this had finally been finished. Great to hear (so to speak)

I don't know if there is an easy way to hear the new orchestration other than going to the Pinsound website and downloading the original and new orchestrations. If you a select any random music track from each, play them and compare (just on your computer) I think you will find that the new reorchestration is a MASSIVE upgrade... and I'm not even an audio guy and I was pretty happy with the orginal.

If you need some specific instructions, just send me a PM. I'm happy to walk you through it.

#6048 2 years ago
Quoted from EStroh:

I don't know if there is an easy way to hear the new orchestration other than going to the Pinsound website and downloading the original and new orchestrations. If you a select any random music track from each, play them and compare (just on your computer) I think you will find that the new reorchestration is a MASSIVE upgrade... and I'm not even an audio guy and I was pretty happy with the orginal.
If you need some specific instructions, just send me a PM. I'm happy to walk you through it.

Pretty sure this is it.

#6049 2 years ago
Quoted from Jon9508:

Pretty sure this is it.

My God. If that is it, I can't believe anyone would prefer it. Those voices sound so "fake" to me having played the game for years. It just sounds like a cheesy voice over. Ugh.
I'm all about mods, but this one is an easy pass from me. Even my kid who was sitting next to me as I played that started laughing.

#6050 2 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

My God. If that is it, I can't believe anyone would prefer it.

Awful

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