(Topic ID: 57710)

WHITEWATER CLUB= Lifejackets not required

By Skypilot

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 6,125 posts
  • 532 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 days ago by tonyf1965
  • Topic is favorited by 249 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Williams---White-Water-Close (resized).jpg
8F997099-1EE1-4216-8A43-DD70E4F828E3 (resized).jpeg
1273C2E6-3185-43F1-981F-AE4B81A78268 (resized).jpeg
3F085257-9053-4976-9216-A4637C0BA5CC (resized).jpeg
C1AB4A7A-C0FA-412E-816F-7670F6B61ECC (resized).jpeg
28423D7D-241A-4A82-8D43-6F2E27807F80 (resized).jpeg
1E43FB30-1219-48B0-8B0F-65AAC3D9B45E (resized).jpeg
DSC_2596-1 (resized).JPG
DSC_2599-1 (resized).JPG
20210926_112310 (resized).jpg
6EFD2206-5EFC-4597-8047-DE822A5E1E0A (resized).jpeg
21ADA071-0B4E-4119-A24D-34579C432E1A (resized).jpeg
0428BEE1-7EB9-474A-B16F-B754B75FAAC6 (resized).jpeg
6D6CD80E-A914-499D-850A-5C76492C56BE (resized).jpeg
F220EB8B-ED94-4695-B55E-9F8730151353 (resized).jpeg
FB1969B6-A0B4-493E-96A1-4537B11CCC6B (resized).jpeg

There are 6125 posts in this topic. You are on page 120 of 123.
#5951 79 days ago
Quoted from PDX-Mike:

Good evening everyone, we just joined the club! Had a Whitewater shipped from the east coast almost mint condition. The previous owner never had this issue, it will randomly kick a second ball into the trough. I familiar with new games having trough optos, what would be causing this?

I would put the game in switch edge test, and check the switch that sticks up through the shooter Lane by the plunger and make sure it is working consistently. If it isn't the game won't know a ball has been launched and will launch another.

#5952 79 days ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

I would put the game in switch edge test, and check the switch that sticks up through the shooter Lane by the plunger and make sure it is working consistently. If it isn't the game won't know a ball has been launched and will launch another.

Switch seems to be registering in the trough in test mode. Is only happening during ball locks at this point.

#5953 79 days ago
Quoted from PDX-Mike:

Switch seems to be registering in the trough in test mode. Is only happening during ball locks at this point.

Problem solved!! Thank you for the advice!

#5954 78 days ago
Quoted from PDX-Mike:

Problem solved!! Thank you for the advice!

What was the issue?

#5955 74 days ago

How is everyone lighting there playfield more? I would consider pinstadiums, but they might not fit/or might block the view some.

#5956 74 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

How is everyone lighting there playfield more? I would consider pinstadiums, but they might not fit/or might block the view some.

I put some ice blue led strips under the upper playfield and my missing mountain for the top section.

IMG_20210607_211042125 (resized).jpg
#5957 74 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

How is everyone lighting there playfield more? I would consider pinstadiums, but they might not fit/or might block the view some.

Starpost lights:

009a0080f98d0f52cdc2b87bd5494ff6de81e159 (resized).jpg04ccac4935f0071baae062d33b59150f7e61be67 (resized).jpg83e8932a4f7c15744c3e9ae69513929dec9e4c73 (resized).jpgbeac674edee794a8a416acb0a83a72f2b0a9b988 (resized).jpg
#5958 74 days ago

Damn that looks nice.

BTW... Does LH6 including the ghosting patch, or not necessarily?

Also, side question... The playfield when lifting is having trouble locking into the posts. I have a star trek TNG as well for comparison, but everything looks ok. It seems like the arrow parts are going too low. I manually lifted them a few times and it locked in just fine, but when I drop it and try to relift, it seems to go off track again??

Thanks so much for the answers and guidance!!!

Quoted from Davi:

Starpost lights: [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

#5959 74 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

How is everyone lighting there playfield more? I would consider pinstadiums, but they might not fit/or might block the view some.

Mirror blades, spotlights x4, starpost lights, trough lights.
Also, for every single gi light I use opmax sunlight LEDs from comet pinball https://www.cometpinball.com/products/opmax-bulbs?_pos=1&_sid=0b3462b15&_ss=r

Highly recommend the gi and led ocd boards as well.

I should state that I am a huge fan of PinStadiums, but I tried them on here and the light was blocked by many of the playfield elements.

16280322746145762552172358666100 (resized).jpg
#5960 74 days ago

Wow!! Nice!

Quoted from daveyvandy:

Mirror blades, spotlights x4, starpost lights, trough lights.
Also, for every single gi light I use opmax sunlight LEDs from comet pinball https://www.cometpinball.com/products/opmax-bulbs?_pos=1&_sid=0b3462b15&_ss=r
Highly recommend the gi and led ocd boards as well.
I should state that I am a huge fan of PinStadiums, but I tried them on here and the light was blocked by many of the playfield elements.[quoted image]

#5961 74 days ago
Quoted from PDX-Mike:

Problem solved!! Thank you for the advice!

Quoted from yzfguy:

What was the issue?

I've got the same issue on my WH2O that I keep at my weekender and it started doing it same day I got it. I ended replacing the missing wireform gate in the trough recently. I Also went through and ended up putting a new CPU in it along the way as the old one seemed a bit flaky. But after seeing my TZ(that's in my main collection) starting doing it randomly, I learned from it that the ball through eject arm can interfere with the trough microswitch quite easily and cause this issue. Bending that away from the microswitch sorted it quite quickly. I'm fairly sure this is how I'll fix the my WH2O and probably didn't observe that issue properly as the room it's in isn't always very well lit. I just have to get up to the location to hopefully fix it now.

#5962 72 days ago

Does anyone know why the lights in my back box and the GI lights are blinking like this? The video doesn’t give how annoying it is any justice. THANKS! Running LHC6

https://imgur.com/a/RkwvF78

#5963 72 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Does anyone know why the lights in my back box and the GI lights are blinking like this? The video doesn’t give how annoying it is any justice. THANKS! Running LHC6
https://imgur.com/a/RkwvF78

Turn off the gi power saving feature. Sometimes this helps. Or try and get a rom with the ghost patch installed.

#5964 72 days ago
Quoted from Jon9508:

Turn off the gi power saving feature. Sometimes this helps. Or try and get a rom with the ghost patch installed.

Do ghost patched ROMs fix issues with GI dimming? I thought they only fixed the issue with controlled lamps because they are matrixed.

#5965 72 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Does anyone know why the lights in my back box and the GI lights are blinking like this? The video doesn’t give how annoying it is any justice. THANKS! Running LHC6
https://imgur.com/a/RkwvF78

OCD boards will smooth out that flickering real nice for you. http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7

#5966 72 days ago

Anyone here patch and burn roms? I’d love the LH6”c” rom patched for ghosting. All my machines take coins. I like it that way. More fun. I can provide the lh6c regular rom if needed

Also does the OCD board handle all LEDs? Play field and back box?

#5967 72 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Anyone here patch and burn roms? I’d love the LH6”c” rom patched for ghosting. All my machines take coins. I like it that way. More fun. I can provide the lh6c regular rom if needed
Also does the OCD board handle all LEDs? Play field and back box?

WPC games have two different boards LEDOCD and GIOCD, you need both if you want all the LEDs controlled by the OCD boards. Obviously the GIOCD is G.I. only and LEDOCD handles all the controlled lamps.

#5968 72 days ago
Quoted from Jherre6:

Anyone here patch and burn roms? I’d love the LH6”c” rom patched for ghosting. All my machines take coins. I like it that way. More fun. I can provide the lh6c regular rom if needed
Also does the OCD board handle all LEDs? Play field and back box?

Did you try turning off GI dimming to see if that resolved your issue, it could be something else?

#5969 72 days ago

That’s what I thought about both boards. Thanks.

Yes I’ve tried the power saving feature. And it does help and waaaaay better than before, but I’d like the lh6 with coin patch and might as well include the ghosting patch if anyone can burn me one?

You guys are great for the super quick replies though!!

WhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiteWATER!!!!!!!

#5970 70 days ago

Anyone leaving the club near MD. I have a Totan, IM pro or JP pro to trade.....

#5971 69 days ago

Hey All, new member of the club. I picked up a decent Whitewater, but I've run into some issues as I've gone over it. I have a thread over in the tech section if anyone has a moment to go take a look, I would appreciate it. Thanks! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/white-water-weird-switch-issue

On another note, while working on things, I removed the back mountain range and I noticed way down in the back, on the lower playfield, below all the ramps, there is a bracket of some kind with a semi-loose lock nut on it, and what appears to be part of a switch. There's no actuator on the switch, and the whole item appears to be doing nothing. I don't see any reference to this switch in the playfield chart from the manual, but maybe I'm missing something. Can someone tell me what this is? I can provide better pics if needed.
WH2O_switchinback (resized).jpg

WH2O_switchinback1 (resized).jpg
#5972 68 days ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Hey All, new member of the club. I picked up a decent Whitewater, but I've run into some issues as I've gone over it. I have a thread over in the tech section if anyone has a moment to go take a look, I would appreciate it. Thanks! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/white-water-weird-switch-issue
On another note, while working on things, I removed the back mountain range and I noticed way down in the back, on the lower playfield, below all the ramps, there is a bracket of some kind with a semi-loose lock nut on it, and what appears to be part of a switch. There's no actuator on the switch, and the whole item appears to be doing nothing. I don't see any reference to this switch in the playfield chart from the manual, but maybe I'm missing something. Can someone tell me what this is? I can provide better pics if needed.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I have a hard time understanding exactly where that switch is located (this game got loads of ramps in several layers) but a switch without an actuator is useless. Also I can't see any cables leading to the switch. You should remove more stuff and show us better pictures. You need to do this anyway if you intend to remove/repair that switch.

#5973 68 days ago

.

#5974 68 days ago

Pin prices are al over the place. What’s a fair price for a nice original wh20. No leds but ramps and everything else look great. Has topper and nice cabinet. Thx

#5975 68 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Pin prices are al over the place. What’s a fair price for a nice original wh20. No leds but ramps and everything else look great. Has topper and nice cabinet. Thx

Really hard to judge without pics. $5-$6k ish?

#5976 68 days ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

I have a hard time understanding exactly where that switch is located (this game got loads of ramps in several layers) but a switch without an actuator is useless. Also I can't see any cables leading to the switch. You should remove more stuff and show us better pictures. You need to do this anyway if you intend to remove/repair that switch.

Okay, I'll dig some more and try and get better pics. Location-wise, it's on the lower playfield loop, almost directly behind the VUK that leads up to the ramp behind bigfoot.

WH2O_weirdswitch (resized).jpg
#5977 68 days ago
Quoted from daveyvandy:

Really hard to judge without pics. $5-$6k ish?

That would be my guess. Depending on playfield wear. It is a project machine. Needs; ramps, mountains, color dmd, LEDs, misc., it least 2k in parts or more. Plus these game are harder to work on than most. the ramps interlace together. Plus a ton of work. 5k to 6k. Maybe try $5500, hey you never know.

#5978 68 days ago

Anyone with bigfoot head expertise?
My guy stopped looking back when he diverts the ball, and I get a bigfoot error. In test mode, he spins each way, and the opto test works. But in the position test, it doesn't show which way he is facing. I'm thinking obviously the disc that interrupts the opto works, so why doesn't the game know his position? I get head position unknown error.
*Edit... Looks like in test mode, his head is having trouble moving counter clockwise and even sluggish clockwise. I looked in past posts and it leads me to the multidirectional board. I was reflowing solder as I don't see any leakage from the cap and thought it improved but it was short lived and went back to error after working properly for a few minutes. Seems like I could replace this cap or other components, but I took the lazy way out and ordered the homepin board from pinball life.

#5979 68 days ago

I think I read this somewhere on pinside. Wanted to reshare this with everyone. Who has this issue. White Water is terrible for ghousting GI LEDS.
I just did this on mine yesterday. Problem solved. Turn off GI dimming. Setting, adjustments. A1....25.. change to no. Gi flicker/ghosting in between balls and
end of game gone.

#5980 68 days ago
Quoted from tonyf1965:

I think I read this somewhere on pinside. Wanted to reshare this with everyone. Who has this issue. White Water is terrible for ghousting GI LEDS.
I just did this on mine yesterday. Problem solved. Turn off GI dimming. Setting, adjustments. A1....25.. change to no. Gi flicker/ghosting in between balls and
end of game gone.

This game have lots of GI dimming for different modes and disabling that will give you a lesser pinball experience imo.

Of my eight games this is the only one I've kept normal bulbs in the GI just because of this. The inserts are all LEDs though and looking bright and nice.

#5981 68 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Pin prices are al over the place. What’s a fair price for a nice original wh20. No leds but ramps and everything else look great. Has topper and nice cabinet. Thx

Honestly, you are probably going to pay $6500 for that in todays age with a topper. Hopefully you can get it for less, but may be tough!

#5982 68 days ago

I paid $8500 CAD for mine a few months ago. Worth every penny.

#5983 68 days ago
Quoted from tonyf1965:

I think I read this somewhere on pinside. Wanted to reshare this with everyone. Who has this issue. White Water is terrible for ghousting GI LEDS.
I just did this on mine yesterday. Problem solved. Turn off GI dimming. Setting, adjustments. A1....25.. change to no. Gi flicker/ghosting in between balls and
end of game gone.

GI OCD is an absolute must for this game if you're going to keep LEDs in it. As Lhyrgoif said, if you disable GI dimming your missing a lot of great lighting effects.

#5984 68 days ago

thx for all the price feedback...

#5985 68 days ago

Is there an L6 ROM out there that takes coins? Asking for a friend...

#5986 68 days ago

Im looking for someone to burn it, but here you go.

https://www.skling.fr/category/flippers/white-water/

Quoted from MeNaCeFiRe:

Is there an L6 ROM out there that takes coins? Asking for a friend...

#5987 68 days ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Okay, I'll dig some more and try and get better pics. Location-wise, it's on the lower playfield loop, almost directly behind the VUK that leads up to the ramp behind bigfoot.

That switch/bracket is supposed to span across the bigfoot ramp where I added to your pic, its laying where it is because it has broken both mounts off the ramp and fallen down there. You need to replace that ramp and replace the switch, and remount it. Its a crucial switch for proper game functionality and scoring.

d05c4.jpg
#5988 68 days ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

This game have lots of GI dimming for different modes and disabling that will give you a lesser pinball experience imo.
Of my eight games this is the only one I've kept normal bulbs in the GI just because of this. The inserts are all LEDs though and looking bright and nice.

I agree and also kept incandescents in my CFTBL just cause they looked so good, just like they do in WH2O.

#5989 68 days ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

This game have lots of GI dimming for different modes and disabling that will give you a lesser pinball experience imo.

After reading these posts I thought I should have a few games to watch for dimming. I checked the settings as well and dimming is enabled. The GI lights blink, but I didn‘t really notice any dimming. I have all LEDs in the GI, I‘ve never noticed ghosting. I probably shouldn‘t be asking this question because if somebody points it out it‘ll bug me afterwards when I see it in the game - but when is this dimming occuring?

#5990 67 days ago
Quoted from TheOnlyest:

That switch/bracket is supposed to span across the bigfoot ramp where I added to your pic, its laying where it is because it has broken both mounts off the ramp and fallen down there. You need to replace that ramp and replace the switch, and remount it. Its a crucial switch for proper game functionality and scoring.

Damn, that stinks. Good to know though, I appreciate it. Is there any chance someone has a good picture of that area with the switch/bracket intact? I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

#5991 67 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

After reading these posts I thought I should have a few games to watch for dimming. I checked the settings as well and dimming is enabled. The GI lights blink, but I didn‘t really notice any dimming. I have all LEDs in the GI, I‘ve never noticed ghosting. I probably shouldn‘t be asking this question because if somebody points it out it‘ll bug me afterwards when I see it in the game - but when is this dimming occuring?

Leds cannot dim by default. You have to turn off dimming and attract mode power saving mode otherwise leds will just flicker. There is no fix for this flicker other than getting ocd boards. Not sure how these boards work but they do. Ghosting can be fixed with non ghosting led bulbs or patched roms. Ocd boards fixes all the led issues and supports dimming. I love these boards and have them in all my games. WH2O is such a beautiful game with great fade effects. You have to get these boards if running leds imo.

#5992 67 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Leds cannot dim by default. You have to turn off dimming and attract mode power saving mode otherwise leds will just flicker. There is no fix for this flicker other than getting ocd boards. Not sure how these boards work but they do. Ghosting can be fixed with non ghosting led bulbs or patched roms. Ocd boards fixes all the led issues and supports dimming. I love these boards and have them in all my games. WH2O is such a beautiful game with great fade effects. You have to get these boards if running leds imo.

Not to derail this into an OCD board discussion but they basically take what are (relatively) slow pulses from the game during dimming and turn them into much, much faster PWM pulses. This is necessary because LEDs turn on and off nearly instantly where an incandescent reacts very slowly so the slow pulses are effectively smoothed by the element in the bulbs natural warming and cooling curve.

#5993 67 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

After reading these posts I thought I should have a few games to watch for dimming. I checked the settings as well and dimming is enabled. The GI lights blink, but I didn‘t really notice any dimming. I have all LEDs in the GI, I‘ve never noticed ghosting. I probably shouldn‘t be asking this question because if somebody points it out it‘ll bug me afterwards when I see it in the game - but when is this dimming occuring?

To sum it up for GI, either:

*go with LEDs and disable dimming in settings - no cool dimming effects at all

* go with LEDs, enable dimming and use an GIOCD add on board (costly but looking great)

* go with original bulbs and enable dimming - looks good for a good price

LEDs doesn't work properly for dimming so you won't get any nice light effects with them installed.

#5994 67 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Leds cannot dim by default. You have to turn off dimming and attract mode power saving mode otherwise leds will just flicker.

Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

To sum it up for GI, either:

thanks for these infos. I will need to investigate this on my game. I have amassed a large collection of incandescent bulbs so I can pick out the brightest ones.

I‘m not sure it‘s entirely true that LEDs don‘t dim, but I realize that due to their faster response time they may appear to blink or flicker while an incandescent bulb may indeed appear to dim. I will need to try the dimming function (setting 1-8) in the menu to see what effect this has on LEDs.

Why disable the dim function ? At worst the LEDs will blink (I noticed in particular the LEDs behind the river standups blink, but it‘s not irritating (even if it‘s not necessarily Mr. Nordman‘s intention…). If there is ghosting I have not noticed it.

I do not know if these OCD boards are readily available in EU, I have never seen them for sale, although I have never researched it in depth.

#5995 67 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

...
Why disable the dim function ? At worst the LEDs will blink (I noticed in particular the LEDs behind the river standups blink, but it‘s not irritating (even if it‘s not necessarily Mr. Nordman‘s intention…)....

When I tested full GI LED in my game the "dimming" effect was more of a stroboscope effect and was HIGHLY annoying, I almost thought I was at a rave party but without the drugs. I very quickly removed the LEDs and went with normal bulbs as intended.

#5996 67 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

thanks for these infos. I will need to investigate this on my game. I have amassed a large collection of incandescent bulbs so I can pick out the brightest ones.
I‘m not sure it‘s entirely true that LEDs don‘t dim, but I realize that due to their faster response time they may appear to blink or flicker while an incandescent bulb may indeed appear to dim. I will need to try the dimming function (setting 1-8) in the menu to see what effect this has on LEDs.
Why disable the dim function ? At worst the LEDs will blink (I noticed in particular the LEDs behind the river standups blink, but it‘s not irritating (even if it‘s not necessarily Mr. Nordman‘s intention…). If there is ghosting I have not noticed it.
I do not know if these OCD boards are readily available in EU, I have never seen them for sale, although I have never researched it in depth.

Well LEDs CAN dim for certain but strictly for the purposes of the discussion specfic to WPC pinball machines - they don't without flickering unless you use a 3rd party board. If the OCD boards are not readily available I did read a comment in some other thread recently that there are similar products available that are made in the EU somewhere but I don't remember the name of it.

Ghosting is completely different and happens to controlled lamps, not GI. I don't remember the technical reasons too clearly but sufficit to say that it is caused by the matrixed / pulsed circuit design. These can usually be eliminated by using non-ghosting LEDs if you don't want the expense of an OCD or OCD like board and can live with the rapid on/off timing of an LED versus the smoothed ramp up/down you can get from the OCD type board. Some people's eyes are bothered by the flickering and others seem to be immune to it.

#5997 67 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Well LEDs CAN dim for certain but strickly for the purposes of the discussion specfic to WPC pinball machines - they don't without flickering unless you use a 3rd party board. If the OCD boards are not readily available I did read a comment in some other thread recently that there are similar products available that are made in the EU somewhere but I don't remember the name of it.
Ghosting is completely different and happens to controlled lamps, not GI. I don't remember the technical reasons too clearly but sufficit to say that it is caused by the matrixed / pulsed circuit design. These can usually be eliminated by using non-ghosting LEDs if you don't want the expense of an OCD or OCD like board and can live with the rapid on/off timing of an LED versus the smoothed ramp up/down you can get from the OCD type board. Some people's eyes are bothered by the flickering and others seem to be immune to it.

You lost me at "strickly"

#5998 66 days ago

Ill find out more later but game I may get gives a sound rom error message. Who sells sound roms for Wh20? thx....thinking it just one chip?

#5999 66 days ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

When I tested full GI LED in my game the "dimming" effect was more of a stroboscope effect and was HIGHLY annoying, I almost thought I was at a rave party but without the drugs. I very quickly removed the LEDs and went with normal bulbs as intended.

This. I don't see how you could get used to it since it's very obvious. Looks like something is wrong with the game. With dimming turned off, leds will look fine for the most part. Things is, you don't know what you are missing until you see the ocd boards in action. You get the brightness and vibrant color of leds with non of the side effects. You can even tune the lighting with the software. Dimming is not just used for parts of the game like when you drain. There are dimming effects from just lighting inserts which are especially obvious during attract mode. The only real downside of ocd boards is the cost. When you add up the costs of all the led bulbs and boards, it's around $450-500. Totally worth it to me since lighting is such a huge part of the gameplay experience.

#6000 66 days ago

Try hobbyroms. I am going to try the non ghosting rom. It helps but doesn’t fix it. It’s not for GI problem. Just for inserts. I believe.

There are 6125 posts in this topic. You are on page 120 of 123.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside