Working on a White Water, and I ran into a strange issue. I noticed that neither of the slings was firing during gameplay. I went into the solenoid tests and they fired just fine in test mode. I went into Switch test and none of the switches for either Right or Left sling registers when triggered from the top of the playfield.

So I did a little further digging. If I jumpered the bottom of the switches, I noticed that they registered... but as the wrong switch. The Sling switches appear to be triggering the opto switches for the Whirlpool (Whirlpool Exit and Whirlpool Popper). I checked, and during gameplay sure enough hitting the sling made the game think something with the Whirlpool was happening. And yet... the Whirlpool Opto's both register just fine during switch tests and gameplay.

Looking at the matrix, the Slings are adjacent to the Whirlpool Exit and Popper optos in the matrix.

Anyone ever run into anything like this? Definitely strange. I was thinking maybe something shorted somewhere, but I'm not really sure where to start on this one just yet. Open to suggestions/advice, haven't seen this kind of a problem before exactly.

Thank you for the replay LTG . I actually just picked up the game recently. It was supposedly "turn key," but it was from a seller that has no experience with pinball repair. And we all know a game is rarely turn key They had someone go over the machine in the past and do work on it, so I'm guessing it was related to those efforts. From what I can tell, the playfield was torn down and cleaned, so it's possible in the process they knocked something out of alignment. I will go back and do another visual inspection.

Note: After reseating some connectors and tinkering a bit just to check everything inspection-wise, suddenly the Whirlpool Exit opto is non-responsive. Damn.

I looked over the switch matrix, and I'm curious about the wiring to the optos. When I look at the wiring to all the other switches in the same rows, the wiring matches the matrix. Example: Coin Door Closed, River "E", Light Lock Right, Right Sling all have a White-Red wire going to them. Whirlpool Exit, as shown, is in the same row. But it doesn't have a white-red wire going to it. Or a Green Blue wire (as shown in the column tag). Yet it all looks original from what I can tell. Does anyone know if that's normal for optos like this?

When I check continuity across all the other same row switches, it all comes up as expected. But nothing at the opto. Are they not actually on the same wiring line?

Update: Some bad news - now none of the optos are working, and when the game is powered up two of the solenoids controlled by optos fire off and on continuously. Checking the switch in test, I'm getting no switch closure when any of the optos are blocked now. Also, one of them (Bigfoot related), shows always closed.

The opto board appears to have been worked on. Given how it appears, I'm thinking that may be at least part of the issues. See attached pics. Just ordered a replacement from barakandl , hoping that will help. I don't see how that would cause the sling-to-opto conflict though, so I'm not sure I should just pop the board right in.

I don't want to give up on the existing board just yet though, so while I wait...

I don't know a ton about these opto boards, or how to test them. I did flip my meter to diode setting and go down the row of diodes. As shown in the pic, I marked one that might be an issue. All diodes in this row read approx 0.595 to 0.600 except D3. It has no reading regardless of probe orientation. It's not coming up shorted, but it has no reading whatsoever, which seemed odd.

* D3 is associated to Opto 2 per the schematic. It's also associated with J3-6, which is Switch Row # 2 (White-Red), as well as J2-6, which is Whirlpool Exit Opto (sw 62 trans board)

Wondering if I should try replacing that diode? I have some 1N4007's laying around, and it looks like 1N4004 were on board per the schematic.

WH2O_Opto_Board_1 (resized).jpgWH2O_Opto_Board_2 (resized).jpgWH2O_Opto_Board_schem (resized).jpgWH2O_sw_matrix (resized).jpg

Replacing diode D3 on the opto board did not seem to change any of the issues, but at least it's reading the same as the others now.

Current Status: When the game boots up, the two VUKs associated with the "Whirlpool Popper" and the "Lockup Right" will fire off and on continuously. Associated opto switches are 61 and 63. To my knowledge, none of the optos are registering anymore, but I will check again in a bit to make sure.

Looks like it, yes. 14.01vdc coming in on J3, 13.45vdc going out on J2 to 'photo trans boards'

Edit: the coin door interconnect board looks a little hacked up. Could that come into play here?

Just dirty I believe. Quick wipe with a cloth took most of what you see there off.

I can try this, sure. Can you explain it in a little more detail? I just don't want to do it wrong and make things worse ha.

Yep, already ordered a board! barakandl sells them for $35 shipped, and I've had great success with Andrew's other products, so I figured I would give his board a try.

It would be good to try and figure out the original switch issue in the mean time

Well, it was a combination of issues, and given the low cost of the opto board (and iffy condition of the one I have as shown), I figured it couldn't hurt. As noted, I want to troubleshoot the switch issues some more before I just throw the new opto board in.

Update: I looked at the CPU board and noticed that U20 was socketed. I don't think that was the case originally, so that's indicative of a previous issue. I don't see corrosion on the board that's noticeable, but the batteries were remoted by a previous owner. I also looked at J207, and from the top view of the connector I can see that connector pin J207-6 is a little different looking that the others. I checked continuity from the back of the connector to U20-13, C16, R72 and it seems okay, but given the fact that I was having issues with some switches in Column 6 (which is associated to J207-6), I'm a little suspicious. Some pics attached.

WH2O_J207-6 (resized).jpg

WH2O_U20 (resized).jpg

Switch Test Question: When I go into the Tests and go to Switch (Single) Test mode, I noticed that when I advance to any of the Opto switches, the game shows a letter "A" in parenthesis like (A) for each one. The switches aren't registering, and stay open. I can post a video if it helps. I'm just wondering if the test means something when that appears?

I was thinking about swapping out U20, since someone in the past socketed it (it wasn't socketed originally). I don't have any on hand, unfortunately.

I believe I did that first, but I will go double-check them.

So I just tried something else, per a friend's advice. I have his TZ here at my place and he suggested I swap the WH2O MPU board into his TZ to see what came up. I was reluctant, since who knows what's wrong, but he insisted it was fine and to do it (obviously swapping the ROM).

I just did that, and then fired up TZ. It won't go into gameplay mode (there's a pop-up message on the DMD about needing to remove jumpers to make the game USA based), but I can go into Test mode. I checked the Switch Edge test, and a bunch of switches showed up as closed. Most of Columns 7 and 8 in fact. Unfortunately, I didn't think to run the same test with the original TZ board in it first, so I need to swap it back and see how the test runs on the known good TZ MPU for comparison.

Of note, Columns 7 & 8 do not correspond to the same items on the WH20 that I am having issues with, but they are adjacent. And they are ALL the Optos on TZ.

Going to go swap the boards back after a couple other tests and verify what shows up on the known good MPU.

I'm happy to do that, I just wasn't clear on the process. Could you explain it so I'm certain to do it correctly? I have seen people jumper to ground(?) and such during test videos, but I don't recall a diode being mentioned. I have done similar testing in the past, but it's been a while, and on older Williams games.

By the way, thank you, and everyone, for offering suggestions and thoughts. This is the biggest gap in my knowledge base, so it drives me nuts to not just be able to figure it out.

Awesome write up, thank you

The Whitewater MPU is still in TZ, but I figured I could do the suggested testing either way. I unplugged the connectors as described, and followed the directions for testing. Looks like all of Column 5 isn't working. Nothing at all for switches 41 - 48 .

I tested the other columns, just to make sure I was doing the test correctly, and all of them registered fine.

So it looks like I have a definite board / matrix issue for that column. Is the assumption that it's U20? Not sure what's next test-wise.

Okay, I can go do that now. For the DC volts check, you just mean to one of the voltage lines with the game off? Just want to be clear on that part. Thanks

Checked green-black to ground (connector unplugged from board), no continuity to ground.

Not sure what you want me to check DC-wise, I'll sit tight until I know what you mean there.

One small sidenote, I checked green-black continuity at the board connector to the switch blades at the slings since the playfield is down, and found continuity to one side of the switches as expected. I did notice that the right sling, top switch, looked like it might have been touching the other side of the switch continuously along the blades (hard to see, it was down inside the hole, but I noticed it from above). Fixed that.

Ahh, gotcha. So same test, but with the game on, connector unplugged, and meter on DC voltage. Sorry if I'm slow, been a long day ha. Thank you, I'll do this and report back soon.

I am reading between 6 and 8 vdc on pins 3 thru 6, If I'm testing properly. Pins 1 and 2 had less than 0.1 volts.

Oh I thought I was supposed to read 0 volts? The fact that I was saying 6+ vdc was bad I thought?

No that was with the connector disconnected, sorry if that was unclear. It was just dangling there and I was testing from the unplugged connector with my red lead and my black lead on ground.

I will do it again in a bit, maybe I'll make a video to ensure I'm doing it correctly, but those were the results.

I took several pics, but I just went back and tested. Every pin on that connector is showing similar voltage readings. It fluctuates a little, but I'm mostly getting 8+ VDC on them with my black lead clipped to the nearby cabinet ground. That yellow clip you see is over to the ground bolt in the head. It might look like it's near the connector in the pic, it's not.

WH2O_greenblackvolt_1 (resized).jpg

Okay... I did the same test on my friends TZ and all the pins on the connector were 0 vdc like you said above. So I'm a little worried that mine are all showing 8+ vdc, but if you think it's fine I'll go ahead and just order U20. They're cheap, so I'll get a few just in case.

bobukcat So as you probably noticed over in the Whitewater club thread, I discovered a broken off switch that was laying down inside the back of the playfield. Turns out it's the switch that is supposed to be on the bigfoot ramp up top. I just pulled it up out of there to take a look, and the diode is snapped partially off. It's part of the dead column I believe (sw 57, Cayon Main). Think this might be part of the issue?

WH2O_sw57 (resized).jpg

Darn, wishful thinking it would solve the issue ha.

Yeah, that ramp is available at $129 currently. I am thinking I can probably repair it, but it might be tricky. I also, as you noted, am missing the actuator and such. I would need some pics or info on how exactly it was mounted and such to even attempt a repair.

Any chance you can pop off the back mountain range on yours and take some pics for me by any chance?

Awesome, thanks. They seem busy, worried about GI lighting currently ha.

Going to go do some more tinkering. Opto board arrives Friday or so. I will hopefully get the IC order in shortly so they get here in a similar time frame.

Oh and to answer the question a few posts back about the voltage on the connector: "Did you have the Rows connector off both?" , I had connector J207 and J209 both off while doing the testing. Everything else was connected.

That's a pretty good solution. Can you show me the actuator piece? Mine is missing. I looked up the switch using the part number and it looks like the kind of switch that normally goes under a ramp for a ball to roll over. Is it the same kind, just flipped upside down and mounted at the top instead of under?