(Topic ID: 107701)

White Water - Reorchestration for Pinsound and Warren Davis

By Endprodukt

9 years ago


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22
#1 9 years ago

Hi!

Some may know I did a reorchestration for T2 to use with the Pinsound Board. It will be available soon via the Pinsound Community Forum.

The next project in line is Indiana Jones. After that it will be White Water. IJ is 30% done at the moment. It will be a almost perfect match to the original soundtrack Chris Granner did back in the 90's. Not just the OST cut but also all the FX and Fanfares redone in HD.

For White Water I contacted Chris to find out who was the voice of Wet Willy. It's actually Warren Davis who is best known for Q*Bert and other Videogames.

He is willing to rerecord all the speech for White Water. He asked for $100 expense allowance, which is an awesome offer. Since my reorchestration is completely for free (it will be around 200 hours of work because of programming instruments and using the real once like guitars, bass, drums), I wonder if some of you like to help me out with a small donation to pay Mr. Davis to cover the expenses.

I don't use a penny for myself on these projects. I do it for the community and for the fun.

If anyone likes to help me out, please contact me via PM.

I will keep you guys informed about the progress of the project.

Olli

Here is the List of backers (I'm thinking about a small reward for those who helped out):

Jam_Burglar ($20)
Dmod ($25)
Oyvind Moll ($55)

$100 Dollars collected! Awesome, THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH. This will all go to Warren Davis. If you still want to donate, it will be saved for future projects.

#3 9 years ago

http://www.pinsound.org/

The Pinsoundboard is a replacement for your soundboard in many many pins (please checkout the Pinsound page to see which machines are supported).

You will be able to replace all the soundsamples (Music, FX, Singles, Speech and Jingles) with anything you like. For example: You can have the original soundtrack from the movies in your Terminator 2 pinball machine.

My goal is to reorchestrate the existing, original soundtrack/fx/speech/etc of the pinball machine in CD-Quality stereo sound. I'm a professional audio engineer and have access to very good equiptment.

All you have to do is get the board, load my soundfolders onto the flash drive, plug it in and go.
For stereo sound you will have to rewire the soundsystem and I also recommend a speaker upgrade (broadband speakers for the backbox). Pinsound hopes to offer you a complete plug and play set in the future for you to just plug in.

You can checkout my Terminator soundtrack here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/T2%20Reorchestrated.mp3

#4 9 years ago

ps.

rom support for the original sound rom files will be a feature. You can switch between multiple mixes via the volume control. If you have any question, please visit the pinsound webpage or hit me up.

#6 9 years ago

For copyright reasons you can't listen to the samples on Pinsounds webpage anymore. These were just up for naming purposes. You still can get some of the legacy mixes on pinsound-community.org!

I was in France to meetup with the Pinsound team. This is a very very ambitious project and $400 is not very much regarding it's developtment time and what it's capable of. The board is made by 2 brothers, not a huge team. It was in developtment for years and still is. They try their best to keep the price as low as possible. It's a very advanced piece of hardware and gives you a EQ, Line Out, easy to use software and much more. That's worth the price alone! Actually my Subwoofer now reacts almost like a shaker.

People are willing to spend the same for a Color DMD (please don't get me wrong, I have two and I love them). After you buy it you have no way of changing anything you don't like about it... like colors that were chosen by the creator of the rom or even making your own color pallette for a pin that's not yet done. With the Pinsoundboard you can do whatever you want. You can use my reorchestrations (and those of other people) and simply replace what you don't like about it. You can play instantly with headphones if you want (it's awesome!).

I never thought how much impact the sound has on the game just until I had the board in my hands. When I was playing T2 with the OST I was blown away. Same goes for my reorchestration when you first hear everything in HD quality and Arnie is easily understandable (Thanks Joe Gaudet )

Just a reminder: This is my personal opinion and I'm not part of the Pinsound Team! So nothing of what I say is representative for Pinsound.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from ToucanF16:

I went to the pinsound.com site hoping to sample their sound files. I like the idea, but need to hear the files before putting down money for their board.

You can hear my Terminator 2 Sounds I made for them:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/T2%20Reorchestrated.mp3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/T2%20Reorchestrated%20OST.mp3

Everything is new, including the Voiceacting made by Joe Gaudet.

Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

This is very intriguing to me.
With a game like Terminator, I can see how you'd be able to use the original callouts over samples from the OST. But for something like White Water, how do you go about re-creating the original music? Do you need players (musicians) or is this done in non-realtime using a computer program and virtual instruments?
Can I do stuff like pull samples from the original roms, add drums and whatnot and then have the new files play during the gameplay?

I'm a musician for 15 years and a professional Audio Engineer for 5-6 years. I'm working with metal, punk and rock bands most of the time. So I will play all the instruments or programm them for the music. That's what I allready did for T2.

You can't pull single instruments from the rom files. What I did was: I had Wav files of the original Music/Speech/FX. I imported them into my DAW (Cubase 7.5). For the music I made clicktracks that matched. After that I started programming the drums like the original, playing bass and guitars etc..
Of course you could do everything with virtual instruments and I did use them here and there (not for guitars though). It's simply a matter of taste.

ITS A LOT OF WORK. It took me 200 hours for T2. You can hear both versions I did above. (OST and Reorchestration )

Quoted from Crash:

Wait a sec, so you found the voice actor for Wet Willy? And you're Willyng (pun intended) to implement new recordings of those sound calls in full 44KHz fidelity??

Exactly. Since I'm doing all the work for free I hope for backers to pay Mr. Davis. It's just $100, so not very much. It's not just about the speech. I will also redo all the Music and Fx. Don't forget you will need a Pinsoundboard to use them. I also recommend a speaker upgrade for Stereo 2.1!

Quoted from ToucanF16:

I went to the pinsound.com site hoping to sample their sound files. I like the idea, but need to hear the files before putting down money for their board.

They have videos for Taf and Tz around. You can listen to my T2 versions that I just posted

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from ToucanF16:

For some reason I can't play individual sounds from the pinsound.com web sight.

Post #6. Copyright issues. The only reason Pinsound had them online was for naming the events! Please go to Pinsound-Community.org to download the packs.

Quoted from Blackjacker:

So do you currently have a board installed? If so, write up a review! Obviously you're enthusiastic about it, but would love to hear about some of the technical details - any lag, any provision to replace short repeated clips with a longer clip, etc.
I've been eyeing these for months and am shoving one nto GNR if it works as advertised, but looking for some hand-on reviews first.

I do have the board installed.

I don't have the time for an extended review YET but might do it in the future.

There is no lag that I could hear and I'm pretty sensitive about lags.

The board is easy to install, it took me 3-5 minutes maybe.

You can of course replace the repeated clips with full songs. You can use multiple files PER music/speech/fx that will randomly selected if you whish (I used many many speechsamples for T2, like 3-5 for each callout!). You can replace everything with everything It has to be 44.1 16 bit wav for the moment but Pinsound is working on supporting other formats.

You can have everything in 2.1 (you need to rewire the machine obviously and the soundtrack has to be in stereo of course)

You have a dedicated 2 band EQ for each channel (Cabinet, Backbox) and volume control, loudness switch... everything is VERY EASY to use.

You have a lineout for headphones that can be muted when you plugin anything (if you want!).

The board itself is very clean and everything fits. The packaging is very good and comes with a quickstart manual. It comes with an adapter for WPC DCS and Dataeast including all screws, a keyring, manual, flashdrive, pinsound stickers and a nice little handwritten card by Timothee and Nicolas from Pinsound

At bootup you will hear some beeping. Right now the board takes around 15 seconds to boot (the Prototype took twice as long) and the booting time will be shorter in the future.

Romsupport is planned so you can use the original romfiles to play the original soundfiles.

The software does have some small bugs that Pinsound is aware of and they work heavily on it (nothing that disturbs the actuall playing).

AGAIN: I'm just a user, I know the Pinsound Team but I'm not the manufacturers' representative.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

This is insane man! Good work!!!!

Thanks! I want White Water to be just as good or better. That's why I need to work with Warren Davis!

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

Neat.
I thought my WH20 was an amazing playing game but sold it due to some of the sounds driving me nuts.... may sound fickle but they really got to me.
I remember there was one sound effect in particular - the best I could describe was a "whistle" when you hit the lock if I remember.... that was the most grating.
After playing a really nice Pinball Mafia machine @ Expo I remembered just how fun WH20 was - maybe this is my solution to bringing another one home??
Can you give a little more in-depth descrip on the sound changes??
-Rod

Music: Will all be redone with real and programmed instruments. Songstructures, tempo, pitch etc. will match. This will be the music as you know it... just with real instruments in CD quality.

Speech: Will be redone by Warren Davis. Nothing else to say. This will be like the original in CD quality.

FX: I want to match it as close as perfect to the original. I'm not thinking about changing but enhancing the sound.

As a good example of what I do listen to the T2 reorchestration!

Quoted from Crash:

Dude!! Do you think it will be possible to inject high fidelity sounds and music into games that have been re-run by Planetary Pinball (Medieval Madness)?

No, I don't think that's possible as they don't use a soundboard anymore. It's all on one board and I think they're emulating the sound engine. Not sure though.

#24 9 years ago

I don't get it to be honest.

So I thought you were asking to use the Pinsound Board with MMR by PPS for example.Right?

#27 9 years ago

What's different about the sounds of the MMR? I thought they're the same as the original?

edit: I see they're uncompressed... that's nice. Still mono though.

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Contribution sent! Great work!

Very much appreciated!

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from MarcelG:

Finally the T2 Attract Mode sound effect can be removed or changed!
I hope Pinsound figures out a way to plug into System 11A & B games.

YES You can of course just put a blank file in there (not sure what happens if there's no file at all). BUT I'm not sure right now if the Sound (explosion 5 in the folders) is used somewhere in the game. That would of course mean it's missing there too!

I don't know the reason why these Systems arent supported but I guess the structure of these were WAY different than the supported boards. But that's just a guess.

Quoted from Soltic:

Wow, that is dedication to the hobby! Awesome.
OK, since my wife says I'm a half-wit (and probably am), would there be a way to customize after?
You know where I'm going w/ this - I have all the respect in the world for Nordman, Granner etc. but after playing the game on my ipad again - it definitely was that fx sound @ lock before the kick to the upper that just killed me over time.... again, may seem fickle.
-Rod

You will be able to customize the sounds as you want. No limitations. If you look at pinsounds webpage, you can see the filestructure and you simply replace any file you don't like with anything you want. It's really THAT easy. If YOU don't like it, I'm happy you will have a way to make it the way you like it. That's what the pinsound board is made for. Now we just need a CPU Board that's just as easily modifiable

#33 9 years ago

thumbs-up.jpgthumbs-up.jpg

#34 9 years ago

$100 got collected. Big thanks to the backers. I will now prepare the tracks for Warren Davis so he can record all the vocals. Of course I'll show you examples as soon as I get them.

In the meanwhile, I'm working on Indiana Jones. Please check this link if you're interested:

http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9

#38 9 years ago

Guys, I'm really flattered by your support. Thank you so much!

#40 9 years ago

Stern is not supported by the board I'm afraid. I don't own a Stern Pin but isn't there a software to inject music into the existing soundboard (maybe not compatible with this generation)?

#42 9 years ago

I'm just making music. I'm not changing the music, I'm not making money on it. If I have to take it down... may it be. I don't see any kind of copyright infringement.

#45 9 years ago

Yeah, I don't think this is any case of copyright infringement. I'm not hurting their business in any way or steal anything. And even if they want me to take it down: I can die happily because my projects are Chris Granner-Approved.

About Creature From The Black Lagoon: I think you are right. This pin definately suffers from very midi'ish sounds which is a shame. It's a great pin but I don't own it. So it's not on my priority list for now. That's of course not a NO NO NO. I might do it, but there are so many pins out there and I just got hit up on P-Roc projects that might be interesting as well.

The reason I do this has a very egoistic side of course... because I want to use my sounds and I'm happy others like them too

Thanks again for all the interest, you can always hit me up with question or contact Nicolas/Timothee at Pinsound, they're really nice guys.

#46 9 years ago

I just wanted to let you guys know that the money and the files have been sent to Warren Davis and he will start working on it. As soon as I get something back I'll let you know and of course show some samples

#49 9 years ago

Same goes for the Bigfoot Warren wasn't sure he did the voice for the Bigfoot. As the Bigfoot has the face of Mr. Nordman it's very possible he did the voice - but I'm pretty sure it got pitched afterwards.

Maybe someone in the forum wants to help out on the female voice and bigfoot.

I ask you guys and girls to be patient with this one. It will be a lot of work, I'm still finishing Indiana Jones atm. So this is not a matter of days but rather months (T2 took like 2 month from start to finish). I'm doing this in my spare time, I have a family.

I will update this thread with progress so you see I'm onto it

10
#53 9 years ago

I'm befriended with him and talked to him on Facebook. I think he's rather busy with Alien right now

As promised:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/Welcome%20To%20Wet%20Willys.wav

That's how it's supposed to sound. Thank you so much Warren Davis

#58 9 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Since I have a whitewater and the sound is pretty good already, blows away my Lotr, I'd like to drop a contribution as well.
As for any kind of copyright infringement. There are ZERO damages to be awarded to anybody. Rock on

Will do!

Quoted from Rarehero:

That's really cool! Whitewater is one of my fav pin soundtracks. Really looking forward to hearing how your remastered version sounds.

Me too!

Quoted from futurepinhead:

I have always wanted somebody to redo the audio on TAF. This has will have legal problems but take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/N0Qz1yuAw3g?autoplay=1&rel=0

TAF has been redone for the Pinsound Board! I don't see a reason for any lega problems as long as you're not making money on it or you're giving away whole tracks or something.

#60 9 years ago

All my sounds will be available for free, yes. I couldn't charge for them without getting serious trouble. I guess PPS has the rights on them. Donations are welcome though, we're talking about 200+ hours of work.

#65 9 years ago
Quoted from boostedskex:

Sounds fantastic!! I may have to add this to my game. Thank you for you dedication and hard work.
Thanks,
Alex

Thanks man, it's very appreciated!

Quoted from adii:

This is killer! Looking forward to hearing the finished product.

Thank you, too! Can't wait to start really working on it

#66 9 years ago

I got 1/3 of the Wet Willy samples and they're spot on. Warren is very very cool to work with!

2 weeks later
#67 9 years ago

I got ALL the Wet Willy samples. All the backers might have the Speech Files if desired (I still need to cut them though). You could get your Pinsound Board allready and enjoy your White Water with 8-bit music and high quality speech, at least for Wet Willy. Still need to find someone to do the girl voices (anyone interested who has a good mic and a girlfriend that might do it?)

Music will take a little longer and I couldn't start yet as IJ isn't done yet and I'm waiting for a software update for the Pinsound Studio. It will be done, but I promised myself I wont hurry.

1 week later
#72 9 years ago

I might include 3 different versions - My own, one made by webdiddy and one by Warren Davis.

Indiana Jones needs to be finished first, though.

#75 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I thought a Warren Davis wasn't doing the Bigfoot sounds?

They (Chris Granner, Warren Davis and Dennis Nordman) don't remember. Yes. It could have been any of them or maybe Steve Ritchie or ANYONE else at Williams. But having these made by Warren Davis (and he pretty much nailed it) is a nice feature.

BTW: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qeeemeq5m4b98sm/White%20Water%20%281%29.wav?dl=0

1 week later
#78 9 years ago
Quoted from Blackjacker:

Ack, that boot time is disappointing.
GNR has an audio sample that plays within the first second of the machine being powered up, and you can start a game 5-6 seconds after power-up.

As I said they're working on booting time.

Quoted from gac:

Great work Endprodukt - Is there a way to hear the TAF version for the pinsound board? Also, if I have updated speakers in my machine (i.e pinball pro or flipper fidelity) what has to be done to make them compatible with the pinsound board? Thanks

I didn't make the TAF version but I know there are samples on the Pinsound site. Have a look on the blog.

You can start with your setup right away but it will be mono the way it's wired. For the full potential you'll have to rewire your speakers but it's not hard to do.

1 month later
#79 9 years ago

Wanted to let you know that I started working on the music.

#82 9 years ago
Quoted from Pablito:

Nice! Very interested to see how this turns out. It sounds like a very time intensive project. What's your ETA on the music being done? Will you be sharing samples along the way? Thx and keep up the good work.

it is very time consuming and all I can say is that it's done when it's done. 3 month maybe. Big plus is that speech is done by Warren Davis. There are some very difficult music tracks with many many different instruments. I will post updates as I did for IJ and T2.

#85 9 years ago

I still need a female voice. I'd prefer a native speaker. Can anyone help? You need access to a decent mic (no headphone mic) and an interface with preamp.

#86 9 years ago

Making some progress with the help of Chris Granner who pointed out some harmonies for me. Will post little clips pretty soon.

I've also cut and mixed all of the Wet Willy speech files.

#88 9 years ago

I need several female voice samples from the game. The person doing this should be able to voice act a little. She doesn't need to sound exactly like the girl from the game but should at least try to.

You need access to a decent mic, pop filter and interface.

1 week later
#91 9 years ago

Ok, this is very very very early but I wanted to let you know that things are happening and give you a very short preview of what you can expect... most SFX is not done (besides those that are obviously Stereo etc.)

Let me know what you think!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhvjvb6e0ifgruk/White%20Water%20Preview%20WIP.mp3?dl=0

#93 9 years ago

Thanks man! Yes, actually you pointed something out that's on my list. I think the guitars need more overdrive - not much, we're not talking about high gain guitars - but yes, they could be a little more agressive!

Btw... Drums and Bass are programmed on this one.

#97 9 years ago

Well... the original sound wasn't terrible, it just had to be downsampled pretty hard, that's why everything sounds distorted. But... thanks for the compliment

#99 9 years ago

@seshpilot

These are compressed, heavily with an 1176 and an LA-3A. More compression would actually start introducing background noise as Warrens records were made at home.

The reason they don't cut through is that ducking isn't set in this mix (it's a feature that's now integrated into pinsound studio).

Thanks for the info!

#102 9 years ago

You can donate at any time via PayPal to o.carell (at) kabelmail(dot)de

All donations will cover future projects and grant early access if the donator wants

#105 9 years ago

Take your time... this will take some time to be finished. People are constantly asking how long it will take... and I can't tell. A few month I guess.

Thanks to PinPeet for his donation!

Everyone who donates and allready has his Pinsound Board will get the voice files made by Warren Davis!

I will also collect a list with special calls sometime in the future.

#107 9 years ago

The music will be the same as the original in speed, tone, pitch and everything. As far as possible this will be a perfect match in high quality!

#108 9 years ago

So....

getting great Water effects for free is REALLY hard and a lot of work - and in the end, they never sound as great. So, there is a library called "Sound Effects Bible Water".

http://www.loopmasters.com/genres/46-FX/products/1436-Water?currency=eur

Is anyone around who could use this besides this one single project? If so, you could help me.
You buy this library, it's completely yours. I'll just borrow it so I can make sounds from it - for you.

I need your support to make this quality work!!!

Olli

#113 9 years ago

Every donation counts of course!

If you want to donate : o.carell(at) kabelmail(dot) de

Every penny goes into these projects and not into my own pockets.

#114 9 years ago

I'm at 30 euros now. Thanks to all the backers so far!

#116 9 years ago

Glenn, that was very kind of you!!! Thank you so much.

All the donators can have access to the files at ANY time in the progess if they whish! Just contact me via PM.

Thanks again, I will buy the water package right away!

#117 9 years ago

Here we go

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/waterrechnung.png

Thanks again!!! This will be awesome!

#119 9 years ago

It has and delivers greatly.

Here we go:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/000212-whitewater_multi_ball.rar

This is a great example. The File White Water was the first one I did. I used samples I could find on the internet for free or ripped them from Youtube. Compare it to White Water 2 which I did with the samples from the pack. Loving it. Hope you guys hear the difference!

#122 9 years ago

I just had many samples to make this. I'm really happy with the result!

#125 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I finally got my Kubuntu machine to play .mp3s. It took my curiosity for the WH2O sample to motivate me.
And...it sounds great. The "Multi-Millions" voice is still a bit choppy.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I'm glad I could motivate you. About the Multi Millions... it's the original voice and not yet reorchestrated. This is still heavily WIP!

#130 9 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Roadshow next? I'll donate to that!

Got to donate the machine to me to make it happen. Sorry

Quoted from ChrisHibler:Aha! Makes sense now.
I spent a LOT of time listening to WH2O a while back as a fellow sent me a sound board that would begin to clip the audio after a while. I isolated each of the 4 sound paths on the pre-DCS board, but never did figure that one out.
I think you've got a winner with this card. But I'm sure you are putting a lot of time into it. Most great pinball addons/reproductions are truly labors of love. A good example is right here...PinSide!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/ndex.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I have nothing to do with the board itself, just making the sounds. Thanks for the support!

Quoted from bstyles:

This should be a kickstarter campaign.
Depending on donation level, you get the product at different discounts.

Product at different discounts? You get this for free when it's done. You have to get pinsound board to use this though. Since I don't sell it there are no discounts from my side

#132 9 years ago

Scott, thank you so much. T2 is done in my books. I replaced everything there is and you have options to choose. Nothing left to do there.

I worked all night on wh2o and I tell you guys that Chris Granner is a musical genius. There is a lot of work to be done.

#134 9 years ago

Haha, language barrier! Sorry!

#135 9 years ago

Found someone for the female vocals and will announce her soon

#139 9 years ago

CD's run at 44.1khz 16 bit. Pinsound supports wav so yes...CD quality in my mixes is guaranteed.

Quoted from Axl:

Regarding SFX, Williams and Bally used the sound devices 4000 series sound effects to death.
(In a good way).
The arrow on MM straight from the CDs.
The same is the fireball effect on shadow and TOTAN.
I would start looking there.
I think we still have the CDs at work, so if you
Can't find the sounds, send me a pm and I can see what I can do.
Axl

Nice information. I do think they used them mostly with dcs? Most sfx on wh2o is synth.

2 weeks later
#141 9 years ago

Soooo....

I allready finished 6 rafts and some country songs. I also did some SFX but not that much. The last week I was focusing on IJ to finally finish it and have it out of the way.

I also got very nice samples for the female speech although I feel it's not 100% there. Very close though and I hope she will give it another try when she finds the time in the future.

1 week later
#143 9 years ago

It will take some time to finish. There are so many tracks in many different genres. Not an easy task. Rock, country, bluegrass, hard rock. Besides that my only source are 8 bit mono tracks. Don't expect anything finished too soon. What I can promise is that it will be released and it will be finished. I will show something as soon as all the rafts are done which will be soon. I'm constantly working on it but there is no sense in showing every little step.

#147 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I'm not sure if it's possible to separate the audio tracks in an emulator for better listening, but have you tried lifting some circuits on the sound board to disable certain channels? Like eliminate the SFX and voices? You may even be able to separate the music into its separate channels that way.

No chance. You'd need access to the source code to set volume levels to the different channels. All midi sounds are generated by one chip. I have access to the single music tracks. No sfx or speech involved. Listening to the music at half speed most of the time.

#148 9 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

I was playing yesterday, listening to the song on the L-6 rom that plays when your game is over and thought, GOOD GOD, Endprodukt has his work cut out for him! For every Raft level it just gets deeper and deeper.

The first three rafts actually build upon each other. After that everything changes except the key it's played in. Still... This will be much harder to do than Indiana Jones or terminator 2 . I want to get it right so I hope people can wait for me. Since I want this for my machine this will happen. Be sure on that. Just a matter of time.

#150 9 years ago

White Water isn't in the list (M1). Tried it with Fish Tales because it's the same era. You can't change the volume of single tracks.

#151 9 years ago

Tammy Tuckey, daughter of Todd Tuckey, will be the female voice in my reorchestration for White Water!

She did a great job and I'm very thankful she helped out.

#152 9 years ago

Making good progress. Hope to show something in the next few days.

#154 9 years ago

Rockin' the Whirlpool... this one was fun: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/Whirlpool.mp3

#157 9 years ago

No chance to use melodyne on this one to figure out single tracks. Original music is in mono, I don't have access to single instruments/channels. No chance melodyne could help me out on this one. Love it to tune bass/vocals though

#158 9 years ago

Thanks to GaryMcT for the donation. It's much appreciated!

#162 9 years ago

Musicians.... need your help deciding which instrument to choose for the Multiball Tune:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/multibal__LEGACY__.wav

Please compare it to the Goldmine tune:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/country___LEGACY__.wav

The instruments sound quite different, although they're in a similar style (Bluegrass/Country).

So for the Goldmine it was more obvious. Using Banjo, Violin for the lead, bathtube bass and a simple drumsetup. Now for the Multiball it doesn't seem as obvious.

It could be a Banjo (starting right from the beginning)... but the Lead that kicks in after a second or two... .it doesn't sound like a fiddel. Also the "Banjo" could be something else like a Guitar/Steelguitar. HELP!!!

#167 9 years ago

God damn it. You're right. That's a problem as she isn't available for rerecordings any time soon. Damn.

#168 9 years ago

Well... she could have had more than one flashlight

#170 9 years ago

I'll give it a try.

#171 9 years ago

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/I%27ve%20Got%20A%20Flashlight.wav

Spending 3 Minutes on it. Still hope she'll rerecord this one.

#174 9 years ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

I would definitely make the lead a fiddle sound. That's authentic to the style and IMO, what the original composer was shooting for.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking but the actual fiddlesound (midi) in the Goldrush track sounds like a fiddle. The leadsound in the multiball music doesn't sound like a fiddle to me.

#176 9 years ago
Quoted from urbanledge:

No way.
You've come this far so might as well don't right.
That just sounds odd

Yup, sounds fake. Won't go that route. BUT that's actually my smallest problem. Many tracks ahead that are so complicated it's not funny.

#178 9 years ago

Cool. Give it a try. What do you use for it?

#180 9 years ago

Give it a go. Looking forward to your results.

#182 9 years ago

nice job, would you mind sending me screenshot of the project to see what you actually did?

#184 9 years ago

It seems to help to be a native speaker. Great job, thank you again!

#187 9 years ago

Good news. Not. PPS contacted me. You know what that means. I'll let you know if I can ever continue to work on this. Can't believe this.

#189 9 years ago

All the information I could gather in 30 minutes are good for us. I don't think they (PPS) have a basis to actually pull me down. I'm not selling anything.

#194 9 years ago

Thanks guys. I really want to continue on this

#198 9 years ago

Hey guys,

you know what's funny? I've got thumbs up from Chris Granner (who actually wrote the music), Steve Ritchie (who used it), Dennis Nordmann (who also used it) and Warren Davis (who is the original voice of Wet Willy). I get PM's from all over the world. I couldn't feel better about my work.

I'll stop for NOW. We'll see where this is going.

Thanks for all the support.

#200 9 years ago

Believe me... so much time spent on WH2O... haha... this is really really really sad and disturbing.

#202 9 years ago

Of course. Money is involved. Until now no one was doing the work I did. Let's see if there will ever be an on the spot reorchestration with the narrators from yesteryear.

I'll ask you guys to stop conversating with PPS in my thread and make your own.

#205 9 years ago

I don't want to get pinsound into this - yes. this was made to run on the pinsound board. but you still need the board. I'm not selling the boards, I'm not earning anything with the fact boards get sold because I do music for it. I just hate the fact that good people doing good stuff (and I don't mean myself right now) get stopped by doing something for the community.

I'm not sure I can even SHOW people what I'm working on. I just don't get how people can be like that. Sorry.

#208 9 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Who cares - they don't own the rights to the WMS IP ...

Everyone but you.

Quoted from PPS:

pinsound is making the money it appears ...

This thread is about my work as a musician/audio engineer. Pinsound are making money from their boards, not from my reorchestration. If my reorchestration WAS the reason for someone to buy the board: Cool.

Now get out of my thread.

To everyone else: This shit is over. Thanks to PPS I won't release anything or contribute any of my work I did in the past. As soon as possible all sources will take my work down - this is not in my hands. Thanks for all the support I got in the last few hours. Please close this thread.

#210 9 years ago

Nope. Won't happen. I love the original tracks and especially Chris Granners music. He's a genius. Thanks though for the nice words!

30
#213 9 years ago

Not Okay? You didn't even manage to say "Hello" or actually tell me your name in your first PM. I didn't insult you. I told you you gave me NOTHING that says that you actually own the rights on the music. You still didn't. All you did was threaten me. BUT: Neither you or I should take this into the forum. This is private and it stays that way.

I didn't think that someone actually would CARE that some idiot from Germany spents 600 hours to rerecord 8 bit music from 1992. Give me a break.

#217 9 years ago
Quoted from Pablito:

Both sides are getting heated and the losers in the situation are all the ppl that love pinball and the games that endprodukt is enhancing. Would be great to see a reset on the whole situation where cool heads prevail and we see this project get back on track. I suggest a phone call between the 2 of you with a way to resolve the situation so all parties involved can get what they want. If it's a money thing, figure out a price and a distribution method and let the customers contribute. A breather and a phone call would probably fix things and prevent a waste of all the effort by endprodukt. Looking forward to a resolution. Go for it guys.

Dude,

I don't do this as a job. I'm not a native speaker so choosing my words is important to me and not possible on the phone. I don't want to sell my work. I wanted everyone to enjoy my sounds. People not even owning one of the machines I did had fun just listening to my reorchestrations.

This was my way of contributing to the pinball scene as I got so much help in the past - here and on flippermarkt.de when I was in trouble with my machines and needed support when I had no idea what to do.

I learned a lot while reorchestrating these machines so my effort isn't wasted. I'm just very very sorry for all the guys and girls who supported me so much on this. Please feel free to contact me whenever you want for a chat.

#229 9 years ago

I don't think that anything on this will happen so please keep your hopes on this one low. I appreciate the support though. There is a small chance but I don't want to talk about it in public.

#232 9 years ago
Quoted from boostedskex:

This is so upsetting to me! Endprodukt, you have been working on something for WH20 that I have been so excited to add to my personal machine. I hope some day I will be able to listen to the work you have done while playing.

I hope so, too. Otherwise I'll have the only WH2O LE :DDD

#234 9 years ago

You guys are welcome. Until the actual legal position isn't clear - I will not do that - releasing it I mean. Of course I will finish the tunes and use them for my machine.

#236 9 years ago

Rick told me I could contact Roger Sharpe about the copyright problem. So I did and got a response. I'm not sure why I should have contacted Roger as he is not with WMS anymore, but I got a contact at Williams and good luck whishes for us all. What a nice person.

That doesn't mean I'm free to go or that our chances are ANY better.

#239 9 years ago

I already talked to him. He can't help. He has no hands in the wms copyright atm. He told me to contact Williams directly and gave me the email and a name.

10
#243 9 years ago

I continue my work. I won't share it though.

WHY would I give PPS my hard work for free so they can make money from it!?

Not even MMR compares in quality to my recordings. These are still the old files - just uncompressed. Of course they sound better - but they didn't actually enhanced them to stereo or anything (as far as I know!!!). I actually think that Rick could have benefited from actually talking with me instead of threatening me straight away (and I have proof for that).

I want to see if any mixes of the size I did them will be released by PPS or anyone in the future and here is the reason why:

If you have to pay an audio engineer to do 200 hours of work (and it's probably more!)... it would be somewhere between 7k - 15k depending on the studio and the name. The problem is: This has to be work of passion or it wont come out great or close to the original. I investigated for every mix. What was the original idea, who were the narrators, what instruments have been used bla bla bla. What would Chris do to them nowadays and so on. I did this because I LOVE pinball. I knew from the beginning I couldn't ask for money when I do this and that's fine because I'll do it anyway. I do it because I want it on my machines.

So... why would I give Rick 7000€ so he can make even more out of it? Would anyone of you do that?
And even though I don't have the license to distribute my mixes - they're still my work and my property.

I'm just hoping for WMS to say it's ok (if they CAN). If not, that's it...

#248 9 years ago
Quoted from master_of_chaos:

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding in this situation.
The only company that could make money here is Pinsound.
And NOT with the Sounds Endprodukt has produced but with their own universal usable piece of hardware.
They sell it without any licenced sounds and music (as i know, you can download user made sounds, but these are not part of the sold product)
, so there is no need for them to pay anyone anything.
On the other hand, the work of Endproduct has no copyprotection, so what would the correct price for him to pay to PPS
to be allowed to give the sounds into the public?
If Pinsound pays a fee to PPS for every Sound board (and so to Stern also) just for the possibility that someone could resample licenced stuff, what about those who made something complete licence free?
Next step, what about the licence holders of the sounds and music from themes like Addams, Dirty Harry, Star Wars, Terminator, Indy, Startrek and so on?
Who pays them? PPS in this case, for they basically allowed (by taking money) that someone rethemed one of the above pins?
The ONLY way for PPS to make money out of this is to BUY tge pinsound company and sell this product for their own.
And let the community make with this what they want.

Good points.

#252 9 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

Agreed. The pinsound project is pretty much done now. That is unless people start releasing files anonymously. Some of the files are already out there on the internet.

Guys. Don't overreact. As long as no one claims copyright issues with other mixes the board is everything but doomed. I'm in the focus because pps is a pinball company holding licenses. I don't think that Disney or universal or anyone is going into pinball forums to sue people because of copyright infringements.

#264 9 years ago

I want to say thank you to all the community members. I'm overwhelmed by all the condolence.

PLEASE understand that I can't provide the files via PM or on any other way. I'm very sorry but I still hope this could have a happy end for us all.

#272 9 years ago
Quoted from urbanledge:

Total BS,
Keep up the good work.
He cant stop you releasing your own work.

Well... I wouldn't be so sure about that but we'll find out. Copyright is a very very complex topic.

#295 9 years ago

The story is not over but this is a very very very complex topic. All the arguments make sense but I doubt they have any impact on the actual copyright situation.

In the meantime : I'm trying to find a VSTi that sounds like a fiddle. Very hard to do so that it comes close as it needs slides up and down and other effects. Not much is happening right now. Just very small steps so understand that this situation has been a huge demotivation for me and I need to find the spirit of the river to give it back to me (the motivation I mean )

#299 9 years ago
Quoted from Axl:

Have you looked at this? Maybe that could work out.
http://8dio.com/instrument/misfit-fiddle-vst-au-aax-2/
I also think there is a folk violin in the standard NI Komplete if you have that.
Axl

Haha, that misfit fiddle is funny. "Rule #1: We made sure that the person playing the sampled instrument never played it before. Like... never...ever."

I don't think it will work

1 week later
#301 9 years ago

I just wanted to let you guys know that I didn't do much since PPS contacted me. I don't see a reason in hurrying right now. This will be finished some time but I'm really not motivated right now and I have a lot of studiowork anyway so... still looking for a fiddle though.

#303 9 years ago

Cool, that guy is a genius.

2 weeks later
#309 8 years ago
Quoted from gcp:

Oh man, what a tease!

A teaser is for something that get's actually released

Quoted from karl:

outstanding! Can we be friends
Seriously, love what your doing with this. White Water is one of the best games ever(check my Avatar ) This upgrade you are doing will take it over the mooon

Thanks dude, still hope that I will be able to release it to the public. If not... Germany isn't that far away and there is actually a ferry between Kiel and Oslo

#313 8 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

It's not getting released.

We'll see...

4 weeks later
#320 8 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

Doesn't Roger Sharpe control all of the Williams IP? Is there a way to contact him or whoever controls the rights? Certainly a deal can be made here. The end product (tee hee) is so impressive that it would be crazy for this not to be released for all to enjoy.

Talked to him. He couldn't help. Nice guy though.

#322 8 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm picking up a White Water tomorrow, so now I'm sad this got put into limbo.

It's not. Patience is the key.

#324 8 years ago

I could finally motivate myself to do some work. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/Multiball%20WH2O.mp3

I know the fiddle isn't perfect... it was a pain in the ass and the playstyle of a fiddle isn't easy to emulate... if even possible at all. I'm working on it though.

If ANYONE knows a professional fiddle player that might look into actually playing this... let me know.

#327 8 years ago

Well the original sounded like bluegrass to me. It's hard sometimes to tell what these midi instruments try to be

1 month later
12
#331 8 years ago

Pps is not exactly known for being very transparent with what they actually own. As far as I understood pps wasn't sure about the copyright of the music.

Anyhow... To all the backers and people who wait: it will be finished. I didn't work on it for weeks though and don't know when I will be start working on it again. But there has been done so much already it would be a waste of time to not finish it.

It will not be available to the Pinsound community webpage though. Someone unknown uploaded my mixes for t2 and IJ. Most probably to do a good thing but it's actually not. First of there is no credit, second it puts me in a shitty situation, third it's old versions. I asked the administrator to remove my work but after explaining my standpoint he refused to do so.

#337 8 years ago

Basicaly it's not a remaster. I redo everything from the ground up. It's my work. It's just that someone else could make money out of it because it's close enough to the original although I don't see that Rick could do much about it - but I'm not the one paying money for a lawyer to find out.

1 month later
#346 8 years ago

Thanks for the support.

I don't give any estimates on this one anymore. I start working on it when I feel like doing it. I think I worked too hard on IJ and t2 and need some other things in life to get back motivation.

But... It will be finished one day. Promised.

#366 8 years ago

Holy shit you guys want my reorchestrations badly, hu? I do feel honored but please guys, let's try and keep it nice over here, shouldn't we? I do think it's cool that some people step in for me (and the rest of the community of course) and they seem to know much more about the copyright situation than I do. But we might keep this impersonal, as much as possible. It doesn't help and Rick doesn't care.

So, I'm not a native speaker which is obvious and I can reread the stuff I'm writing but it's rather hard to explain myself on the phone. Roger Sharpe...or maybe Rick told me that Eric Schmalz is the guy for copyright issues at WMS. Tried to contact him, never got a reply.

#367 8 years ago

Checked my PM's and it was Roger Sharpe who gave me the contact. He is responsible for the legal department.

"...I have to believe he will defer because of the existing situation with all the 'mods' that are being introduced--physical components and the like--your endeavor is no different except for the fact that it is audio enhancement.
Good luck,
Roger"

#374 8 years ago
Quoted from cleland:

Can't believe I missed this whole thread....damn crazy. Go OP and give the people what they want! Hell, I might add WH20 back to my lineup with your improved sound. I hope the little guy wins
Technically, folks were donating for my Fishtank Topper

I'm winner of hearts, that's all I need... Haha...

29
#377 8 years ago

Dudes and Dudettes. You'll be happy to hear that I actually started working on this again after month. Not much but hey. There is SO MUCH work left, it's insane.

10
#379 8 years ago

I imported every track and set all the tempos. I almost finished all the drums and will continue with the bass. Problem is... that's the easy part. Now there are some tracks where I'm just not sure what kind of instruments Chris had in mind and I don't want to bother him with all my questions.

Chris once said to me: These tracks where never ment to be played by a human beeing... and he's so right. It's music for a game and it works totally different. The problem is that I have the mindset of a musician in a band so I try to reproduce that. It will not let me do a 100% cover of the existing music.

Any musicians around here who want to help out? Midi, tapping, notation, whatever. I tell you upfront that this is not an easy task so it might not be appropriate for beginners.

Right now I need people who can play:

Steelguitar. Yes. With all that awesome sliding.

Rock 'n Roll Piano. There is one part in one of the wet willy stages with a 50's/60's kind of piano in it. I can reproduce it but it will take me much longer than someone who actually plays piano. Having a midi-compatible keyboard to record it would be helpful.

Please PM me if you're interested.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS SOUNDTRACK WILL ACTUALLY BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC!!! This is only up to Rick. Or Eric. Or whoever. No one knows.

10
#382 8 years ago
Quoted from bstyles:

Sound recordings may be treated differently: https://library.osu.edu/blogs/copyright/2013/05/15/198/
What we need is proof of Williams copyright filing, so see how it was filed. Compilation of sounds perhaps? Perhaps never at all...
Regardless, there's no doubt that a royalty to PPS is appropriate if PPS truly has the license for the copyright on the work. Then again, if this re-orchestration is given away for no consideration, then a royalty of zero is zero.
There are a few variables here. First to horse - Endprodukt needs to finish the project. Then the cart - does he want to charge for his masterpiece? If so, the easiest thing would be to pay off Rick with his 10% of sale price license model.
Either way, I think what is clear is that all of us with a WH20 would gladly pay a fair price to make one of our favorite games event better!

The problem with me charging money for my hobby is that it's not a hobby anymore by German law . I have to pay taxes on this. I have to document everything carefully and... Rick and I are from different countries which makes everything even more complicated. I have to decide what's a fair price for this. Nah nah nah. This is not my job. This is my hobby and passion. I allready have enough work to do to actually get this done. Having all the paper work on top... no thanks (for now). I hope you guys understand. I want you guys to have this just as much as you. But I do have principles. And so does Rick. Problem with that is: It hurts him and his reputation and it hurts the pinball community way more than it hurts me.

I never did this with the intention of making money out of it. One reason is that at least I set my expectations to a price. If I don't pay anything, I can't expect anything. I can lay down my work for months without feeling bad and that's actually good for my mind and soul. I did feel bad about it, but not for long. No one lost anything.

Ok... now I'm starting the third time to write my last sentence and the conclusion is simple: If you guys out there want this to be released officially and without me having any trouble... I think you will have to convince Rick or make him an offer. I'm not going to negotiate with people who say I'm willingly violating copyright laws. That's absurd in the context of what I'm doing. Last but not least: I removed everything I ever uploaded. That's not exactly like willingly hurting someones IP. I didn't came here to fight about copyright, law, right or wrong. I came here to share my work because I know that not many people are willing to spend so much time with this "shit" or simply don't have the possibility. Money can't pay when someone is honestly happy about something you created and enjoys it as much as the people who had the chance to use my work.

#391 8 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

"Letting it slide" implies Endprodukt is actually doing something illegal.

My understanding is that by Rick's words, Eric Schmalz is not the person to talk to, but Rick himself. That means Rick is the one who could say: ah fuck it, no money involved. Problem is I heard the same the other way around, meaning that Eric Schmalz is indeed the person to talk to and who could let it slip by simply tolerating it because of hobbyism... If that's a word.

#401 8 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

The money that would flow from further upgrades is MULTIPLES of what the sound is worth in isolation.
Edit--unless, of course, PPS are doing their own sound board upgrade? Ooooh. That could work too.

Just by what I usually earn in the studio this is more than a 10k job. Of course, that's far away from what I could charge anyone... As long as it's not a private job for someone with too much money.

And even if he would build a board with pps... Which would be lame...
He needs people who are professional audio engineers to make it sound good. Audio engineers who don't care about pinball will take their usual price... And that's usually pretty high. You also need musicians. Mastering engineer. Etc etc.

#402 8 years ago

Little WIP... those Lead Guitars are killing me. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/Raft%206%20WIP.mp3

14
#412 8 years ago

Thanks to Warren for the voice work. Very nice guy to work with. He had absolutely no reasons to do this for us. He still did it, basically for next to nothing. Same goes for Chris who helped so much in the past. These guys are the once who created entertainment amongst others 20 years ago... Until today. I'd love to see that kind of support from another company. And the more I think about it, the less I understand what's the big deal in all of this.

2 months later
#417 8 years ago

No doubt I'll finish it. I will enjoy the heck out of it. Not working on it ATM and no reason to hurry. No one should expect a release though. But that's not to up to me.

3 months later
#418 8 years ago

I'm getting requests for this all the time. People will know when it's done but as I said I'm not really working on it. A lot of work is left, the music is Really Really hard to do. I mean really hard.

#420 8 years ago

Find top notch musicians who are serious about this stuff, have the time, the knowledge, the passion and the equiptment to record stuff. Especially the Guitar is a beast. My source is a 1992 mono midi file that I have to play at slower speads to hear the notes of 6-8 different instruments at the same time.

I would love to have it on my own machine so that's the biggest motivation. My WH2O is in pieces and get's restored piece by piece. There is also happening other stuff in the background that I don't want to talk about because it's nothing to get seriously happy about right now.

IJ and T2 are basically a joke against WH2O.

#423 8 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

Also, I imagine the original wasn't really "played", at least in the same way. The original sounds like mostly synths.

The original is composed on a keyboard although it resembles real instruments. Still hard to do and very time consuming. I didn't have a daughter when I did T2 and IJ. Made it a little easier.

22
#424 8 years ago

I actually worked on it today. Whooohoo. There is something happening in the background and I hope it means good things so please stay tuned. This isn't dead yet.

#439 8 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

I agree. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to reach out to him. I've been following him on YouTube for quite some time now, and I know that he makes a living doing this by scoring music for indie video game titles and some movies.

I'd consider myself a pretty talented musician, however I would never say that I'm "top notch." I would LOVE to work on a project similar to this, for sure, if I had the recording equipment. I do have a friend that I consider VERY top notch (especially on the drums and guitar). Maybe I'll talk to him and see what we can do. You might have some competition, Endprodukt

I'm not afraid of competition. People are usually out after they're realising how much work this is.

#440 8 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

This thread is both the best thing I've seen (heard). It reminds me of what this gentleman is doing on youtube. He calls himself the synthetic orchestra, and takes music from video games and re-orchestrates it using computer software. Here's an example of a "before" and "after:"
"Before" Metroid Brinstar Theme from the NES: » YouTube video
"After:" Re-Orchestration: » YouTube video
Just to toss in my 2-cents, this youtuber has been making these re-orchestrations and has monetized his account. As far as I know, since it is 100% his own work, he can collect the money from whatever ad revenue is posted on his account. He even outright sells his work on his website with no copyright qualms, again that I know of.
Anyway, Endprodukt, I am absolutely inspired by what you're doing here with this game. Whether or not the project comes to fruition, it still warms my heart to know that the industry veterans who composed this pinball music are still out to support us.

He's absolutely fantastic at what he does and could have done my work for IJ much better just by the sample libraries he owns (worth thousands of dollar) but especially because orchestrations are his profession. I'm a metal producer

He'd be the perfect person for pins like lotr.

2 weeks later
#444 8 years ago

Since I'm not trying to reorchestrate the original JP soundtrack, but use the OST only it's muuuuuuuuuch less work. I just wanted to do s reorchestration that isn't as frustrating.

#446 8 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I myself prefer to hear the original soundtrack, it's just fantastic.

You mean the data east soundtrack?

#448 8 years ago

Well I did T2 OST which doesn't fit the game all too well but people love it.

IJ has 60% Ost and 40% Granner reorchestration.

Wh2o has no Ost haha.

3 months later
35
#452 7 years ago

If anybody still cares...I'm working on it again.

15
#467 7 years ago

Thanks guys. We still have to figure out if there will be a way to somehow get this to the people.

In the meantime I scratch my head about Granners craziness as a composer. T2 and IJ both have been a JOKE against what Granner did with WH2O and I think the work needed to get this right is far beyond the others so don't expect anything too soon yet.

So where is this now?

- Wet Willy is done (by the original voice, Warren Davis)
- Blondie Girl is done (by Tammy Tuckey)
- all Drums are done
- 30%-40% guitars are done
- 80% bass is done
- maybe 15% SFX

There are some instruments that are practicaly impossible to get right in the virtual domain (Steel Guitar) but I will try my best. The problem is that none of these tracks are meant to be played by real musicians and while there is playable content I think most of it would be impossible to play on a real instrument.

I'll keep you updated.

I'm finishing the Bass now.

#471 7 years ago
Quoted from mrclean:

Tammy Tuckey, is that Todd's daughter... the "I've got a flash light" voice ?

Yup! Since she likes acting, she likes Disney (over the top characters), has a radio show and is a native speaker - she was just perfect for this job.

19
#473 7 years ago

Don't worry... I've got all the callouts.

Made HUGE HUGE HUGE HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE progress today. I hope that the motivation I have right now will stay a little.

Finished all the bass, organs and trumpets.

#476 7 years ago

Looking for a pianist to help me on one of the tunes. Rock 'n Roll Piano - it's just not my business. It's just like 15 seconds long and loops after that. What I need is an accurate midi.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2932654/raft_20___LEGACY__.wav

#478 7 years ago
Quoted from Allibaster:

I have no idea what the fascination is behind turning this game into a winter- or snow-based theme. It's white water rafting for god's sake.
The only thing I can think of is that it's modding taken way too far.

I have to agree. Sorry to everyone who has xmas white water.

#488 7 years ago
Quoted from webdiddy:

Aaaaaaw... You forgot me as the voice (atleast one of them) as big foot. :'(
Anyway, glad to hear you're on it again.

I'm very sorry but I didn't use your samples. Davis did them in the end. Sorry again and thanks for your effort.

Quoted from seshpilot:

I'll do it for ya. PM me. I can tackle it (am a full-time music producer/musician)

I'm already halfway through. You don't happen to be a top notch guitarist?

#489 7 years ago
Quoted from webdiddy:

Aaaaaaw... You forgot me as the voice (atleast one of them) as big foot. :'(
Anyway, glad to hear you're on it again.

And just to let you know: the quality of your samples are not the reason I've let them out. You did a great job. I just love having the original voice.

I'd love to have the original blonde girl, too. But as far as I know she isn't in that business anymore. Tammy did a great job.

I really hope we will all be able to enjoy this together.

#493 7 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Who rerecorded the original voice?

Well, that was Warren Davis who is the original voice of the game.

warren-davis-1_7_(resized).jpgwarren-davis-1_7_(resized).jpg

#495 7 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Oh! Derp, forgot about him (it's in the thread title )

Haha, I'm a friendly guy so thought I just answer instead of making fun of you

2 weeks later
#507 7 years ago

I really need to finish that jp reorchestration....
Thanks for the kind words. Kinda lost in real life atm.

#510 7 years ago

Dudes... until now there is no solution for a release. Jjust to make that clear so for now don't get a board for this and please please don't ask me for the mix in pm's. I'm not going to release this without permission from Williams and/or PPS.

1 month later
#519 7 years ago
Quoted from urbanledge:

Can you add in sounds where there was none before?
eg the inlane roll over switches have no sfx in WH20 (i think)

No, I'm afraid not. You need a cpu call to do that.

3 weeks later
#537 7 years ago

Told you guys. BUT... just to let you know: I heard of this today. Don't expect anything from my side soon and I have no idea under which circumstances or price this will be going out to you. I have also no idea how this affects my old mixes and/or mixes with scores from movies.

I'm waiting on my playfield and hope to reassemble my machine soon. The way I see it...as soon as I start playing it again, I want it to sound better so... let's see

#547 7 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

Just wanted to say "thanks" again for keeping with this. I only have enough chops in the production area to know that White Water is a MASSIVE undertaking and your work on it thus far has been unrivaled! Cheers to you good sir!

It's indeed massive. Even ij was pretty much a joke against the masses of tracks that wh2o has. This needs a lot of time and patience... please keep in mind that I'm doing this in my spare time. I'm glad that pps and pinsound found a solution.

#553 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

EndProdukt you seem kinda of quiet. Is there anything hindering you from completing this project?

Scroll back one page and you'll get the answer. This is very very very time consuming. I did ij and t2 when I had no family. Now I have a little girl that has higher priority. But you can be sure now that it will be released. Besides that: my own wh2o is still in pieces. I will have to put it back together ones all the parts and the playfield is back. I need it working for testing purpose.

#559 7 years ago

Haha, you guys are crazy for me (my work), aren't you?

Guys, my internal motivation will raise quickly ones my machine is back together. I know myself. I couldn't live with the feeling having it half done. It's a lot of work left..

3 months later
#564 7 years ago

I'm out of pinball for a while. Sorry boys. My playfield restauration has been delayed so often now... but it's a complex story because I basicaly get it for free... it just takes forever. Hope to get it soon.

3 months later
#570 7 years ago

It's done when it's done. I'm Very sorry for letting you guys wait. Real life duties keep coming up.

#572 7 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Did you ever get your playfield?

Yes. But I'm really not into pinball lately and I don't force myself to put it back together.

3 months later
15
#578 6 years ago

Friends it's not about the money. Personal life took over and I simply don't have the time atm. But I already did so much it will be released. That's all I can say.

7 months later
35
#586 6 years ago

Dear friends of pinball.

You might be happy to hear that I finally found the time and motivation to put together my white water. It's close to be done and you know what? I think this might lead to me working on the mix again. I'm VERY VERY sorry you all had to wait but I guess you all know what beeing burned out on something means. It's going to be one of the most beautiful White Water pinball machines out there. Now, the sound has to be right and I realized I finished more than I thought. Not going to give you any release dates but....this is going to happen in the next few weeks/month.

Love you all,

Olli

#591 6 years ago

I can't say anything on how this is distributed. I need to finish this mofo.

14
#603 6 years ago

I can't go into any detail about how this will be available to the public BUT it will be available to the public.

Man, my machine is almost done. Just a few tweaks here and there and I should be ready to go. I checked my cubase project yesterday and I realized that I finished much more than I thought. Yay. BUT my home is a mess now, I need to get the machine up and running, I need to get back into the work with this but I'm motivated.

WhatsApp Image 2018-03-22 at 23.26.40 (resized).jpegWhatsApp Image 2018-03-22 at 23.26.40 (resized).jpeg

#607 6 years ago
Quoted from KJS:

Maybe. Its a hard machine to pick music for and I'm finding it difficult which is why its taking a while - it lends itself to hillbilly but too much banjo is a bit sickening for me.
Currnetly trying instrumental versions of ride like the wind, boys of summer, dumb things, dueling banjos, Thunderstruck blue grass version.
Any music suggestions welcome!

I like it but wh2o is the pin with some of the best original music out there imho. Having Warren Davis as Wet Willies original voice is very important to me, too.

Great work and it's always cool to have options!

1 week later
12
#615 6 years ago

My machine is back together and works pretty fine. I started working on a lot of SFX, finally fnished a folder structure that is 100% like the original machine and did some sorting etc. to see how much work is left.

Working on the SFX I usually replaced everything on IJ and T2 but will not do that on every single sample on WH2O. I will rather enhance them. Reason is that most of them are basicaly blips, doings, dings coupled with a water sound. Why replace blips, doings and dings with other blips, doings and dings? I will EQ them, I will stereo enhance them, and then I will focus on the water sounds and mix them with HQ water samples. Good times.

#616 6 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

Yep, the building music is great. By the time you're in the upper raft levels and the tempo is picked up it's hard not to get sucked in. I also love how stripped down the music is when you first start a game.
Here's the MIDI groove extraction thing I was talking about (he starts talking about it at 5:29 in the video)
» YouTube video
This is the video where he really starts MIDI note extraction to make up for the fact that he couldn't find a keyboard player.
» YouTube video
So basically, you could use note extraction on the original soundtrack to extract the notes, and then replace the sounds with your own MIDI instrument so that the notes are the same but the instruments sounds are updated with better quality sounds.

This will not work on the 8 bit mono material I'm using, besides it's the feature of a whole DAW that I don't own. It sounds really experimental in that video. It could help but it looks like it's more work actually.

I feel like I need to get some help on those screaming parts. Anyone in getting a crowd and doing a few cheering/panicking screams? You would need about 6 persons for this and at least 2 females.

1 week later
#618 6 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Just a bump of encouragement! Can't wait to hear the final version even if it takes a long time.

Working on it. Took a break from the music and looking on the sfx which is a lot of fun.

8 months later
23
#639 5 years ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Should be released before the end of the year.

seriously? who did it?

I know I know. You guys want this. Me too. But honestly, it's not a priority for a very long time now. It's not abandoned and I feel bad about it whenever it hits my mind because I want you guys to enjoy this as much as I would. There is just so many things in life that are so much more important than pinball.

This isn't dead. I'm not dead. I'm just taking priorities in life, looking at my 4 years old girl growing up because honestly I don't want to be the dad who can say that he made a WH2O reorchestration but missed his girl grow up. The way I do it, it's much much more work than many think.

When I did T2 and IJ I wasn't a father. Don't feel let down. This is in my mind and I still want to deliver one day, not making promises though.

I hope you all have a merry christmas!

11 months later
15
#674 4 years ago

Hey guys. I'm glad there is still interest.

I haven't worked on this in god knows how long.

My business as audio engineer became much bigger, I'm a single father of a 5 years old, I have another daily job, I got out of pinball and more into arcade and all that stuff.

This isn't forgotten. But please don't hope for it any time soon. I'm like this: one day I will open the project and say 'this needs to be done' and this is where I will go crazy again. Promised. No promises about when this is happening though.

Thanks for all your support. It's very very much appreciated and I'm still very happy whenever I see videos with my work.

Olli

#686 4 years ago

Make me get a dead pool and we talking... Haha. Now seriously... We are also talking IP that is not mine. Remember the shit with this PPS idiot? Stuff like this needs to be figured out.

1 month later
29
#694 4 years ago

Dear White Water fans.

I have news. I would call them good news.

All SFX and speech samples have been succesfully replaced to my satisfaction. I'm actually fine tuning them now. (Stereo panning and volume)

The music as you heard it in my examples is still not done and will probably not be done for quite some time...BUT:

I will release the package with a completely restored music set and my personal shaker profile.

I used state of the art compressors, limiters, equalizers and restoring tools to make the original soundtrack sound deeper, more punchy and clearer. It's stereo enhanced (not true stereo but wider), harsh frequencies have been dynamicaly removed while missing topend has been reintroduced with complex audio restoration. All in all I would call it a more HiFi version of the original that fades in with all the new sounds very naturally.

To me as an audiophile idiot the restoration is a night and day difference. It really needs a stereo update with good speakers to open it's full potential, though. Also the sfx makes heavy use of stereo panning.

When and how this package is going to be released has yet to be announced.

This is not 100% what you all have been waiting for, but believe me that it sounds fantastic. Having Warren Davis as the original Wet Willie alone is worth a ton.

I'm very sorry you all had to wait for so long.

A little something:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tlbm2nhunpjslj/howdy%20wet.wav?dl=0

#701 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I was very glad to hear that this is moving forward, at least until I heard that sample you linked.
What is that supposed to be? It doesn't seem similar to any sound clip on MY Whitewater, furthermore the quality sounded pretty poor.
The only thing I dislike about the original sounds, is the high-frequency "waterfall" sound effects sound more like static than water. Hopefully your new sound package has done something with that.

Thanks. Howdy Wet is one of over 200 samples. And yes, the water has been replaced with real water samples. Sorry my quality is not up to your standards.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6j1wox1vmrq4oy/White%20Water%202.wav?dl=0

#702 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:I was very glad to hear that this is moving forward, at least until I heard that sample you linked.
What is that supposed to be? It doesn't seem similar to any sound clip on MY Whitewater, furthermore the quality sounded pretty poor.
The only thing I dislike about the original sounds, is the high-frequency "waterfall" sound effects sound more like static than water. Hopefully your new sound package has done something with that.

Thanks. Howdy Wet is one of over 200 samples. And yes, the water has been replaced with real water samples. Sorry my quality is not up to your standards.

The crowd screaming samples have been recorded professionally with 5 people in an acousticaly treated room using Neumann microphones. I don't know how to do it much better then.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6j1wox1vmrq4oy/White%20Water%202.wav?dl=0
IMG-20200118-WA0001 (resized).jpgIMG-20200118-WA0001 (resized).jpg

#707 4 years ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

Dude...Really?

I don't get it either.

#710 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Lol poor quality.. shoot, I just bought another pinsound.

Thanks for trusting in me.

#713 4 years ago
Quoted from toibs:

This is nothing short of excellent news!! Many thanks Endprodukt!!!
Hopefully this can be made compatible with Tilt Audio (https://tiltaudio.com/) too...

It will be an exclusive pinsound product.

#715 4 years ago
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

This is one of those projects where it may be hard for somebody who doesn't understand audio engineering to really appreciate the amount of work done and the enormity of the accomplishment. White Water's original sound quality may not be the best but the intricacy of the soundtrack is daunting.
The clips I've heard sound great as far as the quality of the samples (especially compared to the original quality). I mean, who even has access to a studio facility like that for pinball sounds? What you're NOT going to get is an exact 1-to-1 replica of the music and call-outs. I think that if anybody is expecting this project to sound exactly like the original but with hi-fi sound quality, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Even with Warren Davis doing the call-outs, there's simply no way that he would say the lines the same way, with the same inflections, after 30 years. I hope that most people understand just how special it is that Endprodukt got Warren Davis at all.
The music is what I'm most excited about though. Maybe the clips are gone but the work in progress posted was pretty amazing. You got Endproduckt playing stuff live that wasn't even recorded live in the first place! And the quality of the sounds far surpasses the type of sounds they used with the original. Objectively speaking, it sounds leagues better.
On a side note, my suspicion is that "Howdy Wet" is a sample on the chip but it's just not utilized in the game program.

It's crazy to think that I started 5 years ago.

I think you are right with everything you say. This is a homage. A pretty accurate, but not a 1 to 1 copy. However, accuracy is always a huge factor for me because I love the original sounds.

Saying that, I'm a huge fan of Chris Granner and I'm very very lucky he is such a supportive person. Actually he was always the one encouraging me to not only copy him, but to put some of my own twist into the work I do.

Btw I can just confirm that Warren Davis is going to do another run of Wet Willy quotes as no one has ever heard them before. This is always a big part of my mixes and I hope you will not be disappointed.

I'm open for inspiration when in comes to quotes but they really need to fit the character.

Keep in paddling, partner!

#719 4 years ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

But... all of the positive feedback that you're receiving here is driving you to get it all done at a much higher rate of speed

The fact I spent 40 hours now on SFX and remastering is a good sign, my friend. But you know, never make promises you cannot keept. It's something that happens way to often in the pinball scene.

#724 4 years ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Just wondering if you intend to post some of the quotes you are accepting to put into the mox or if it will all be a surprise?

I think surprises are neat!

#728 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Hey is there a beer fund or someplace we can send tokens of appreciation?

Sure mate, if you feel like donating you can use this link! Every support, financial or mental, is much appreciated!

https://www.paypal.me/olivercarell

2 weeks later
#732 4 years ago
Quoted from Sgrsgr:

Hi. As there is no music out yet for download I decided to give it a try for myself.
I have two track left to reorchetrate and a couple of tracks a friend of me is going to make some guitars for.
Please send me the sfx folder, then we can merge my music with your sfx and callouts. At least until your music is finished.
Here is a sample from my soundtrack.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml8d2cdic6vdjvm/raft16.mp3?dl=0

Nice work.

As of now I cannot give you any files. It's not yet decided how they will be released to also not have copyright discussions.

What did you use to make them?

Making the music for this is a shit ton of work with real instruments. One day...

10
#738 4 years ago

Same way I do it except I'm using real instruments and vsti. Not doing metal either haha

Whirlpool demands some more aggressive guitars.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/04een9pjv676hnj/wh2o%20dingens.mp3?dl=0
This is my attempts to bluegrass...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y19ld305su7pe7a/wh2o%20bluegrass.mp3?dl=0

And finally having the one and only Warren Davis

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bxzxhztztc4vld/Welcome%20To%20Wet%20Willys.wav?dl=0

80 percent of the songs are done but I'm standing in my own way with a standard so high it's hard to achieve without transcription.

Btw... The original boards played the songs on the internal soundchip in real time with code. No midi. No storage.

#741 4 years ago
Quoted from urbanledge:

Do you think Wet Willy was supposed to be a adult joke ?

What do you mean?

#745 4 years ago

Boys will be boys.

#747 4 years ago

Here we go:

I look for two people who KNOW THE MACHINE INSIDE OUT to test my current mix.

You need to know the sounds, you need to have a fine ear.

TWO PEOPLE ONLY. You cannot share the mix, but you can keep it. Don't PM me! Just write here. Have some time. let me know. Awesome!

#755 4 years ago
Quoted from Sgrsgr:

Of course I am willing to test your mix. Maybe i should finish my own instead but im interested.
First time testing in the real machine today. Some volumes is a bit off. I have made about 1/3 of all sfx from free sounds from the web/youtube. Also it seams the pinsound board has problems with sound sync. Sometimes when tjere is a lot going on sfx starts to slow, music dont stop when it shound and so on. I’ll try a faste USB drive next time and se if it has something to do with it. I’m using a 1st gen pinsound board
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofb33qdhxc75htd/RSDA6421.MOV?dl=0
The high score song was quite a challenge for me. But very funny doing. Love the parts just before it loops to near beginning.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr417jrobj5v4hd/high%20score.mp3?dl=0

The reason that things don't stop is that the folder structure is wrong. The way it's offered in the legacy package it will absolutely not work correct.

Highscore sounds amazing. Good job!

#760 4 years ago
Quoted from zene10:

I will send you a free Bigfoot Hotfoot mod (https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1171-pinball-z/02183-white-water-bigfoot-spotlight-amp-hot-foot-lighting-) to you when your re-orchestration is complete.
I'm incredibly impressed by your Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure effort (sounds + voice actors) on mike_m machine.
Hobby + raising family + working = Herculean effort
Thanks for making this hobby great.

Thank you so much! I made a spotlight mod back in the day all mechanical and was very impressed with your solution to the mod. Very very nice kit and the hotfoot feature is super fun.

I just sent the list for custom quotes towards Warren Davis. Expect some funny things!

I need to say this again: the first release will still be with the original but completely restored music. Not my rerecorded music. Just saying it again so no one is disappointed haha.

#761 4 years ago

Okay so some info from my side:

The restorated (not reorchestrated version) will be available completely for free. You waited so long for something, that's just fair.

If I ever finish the tracks (maybe even with Sgrsgr help?) then we'll see what's up

Can't wait to be sued.

#764 4 years ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

I like the collaborative nature here. All the work that you guys are throwing in will sound amazing in the end.
So what's your plan for the reorchestrated version. Is it completely new callouts and music?

The restored version is this:

Completely remastered all ORIGINAL music. Warmer, fatter, more direct, just in general more pleasing to the ear.
Replaced ALL SFX, close to the original but modern sounding.
Replaced ALL Speech. Added some Custom Speech.

The Remastered Version is:

All of the above, but all Music/Jingles will be replaced by instruments, just like T2 or IJ.

Quoted from Soulrider911:

Tell me where to donate this is a lot of work and so thankful for folks like this making these games better for us all

Feel free to donate here:

paypal.me/olivercarell

Thank you very very much!

#769 4 years ago
Quoted from Sgrsgr:

Yes. I know. But admit it would be fun to have the opportunity to discuss this topic with chris himself.

I did that and Chris doesn't hold the rights to this, PPS does. Chris himself likes what I do, but always told me to do something on my own instead of "copying" his work. He was very helpful in the past though.

Sgrsgr the folder structure is total bullshit. And it's not Pinsounds fault. Please hit me up and let's figure out stuff together. Are you by any chance on Facebook?

#771 4 years ago
Quoted from Sgrsgr:

Found this on pinsound.org.
Each sound’s sub-folder must be prefixed by the instruction number
from 000000 to 900000, in decimal, followed by a dash “–“
Each instruction number must be unique (even between folders)
The name after this prefix is not important and is only relevant for identification and later modification (so, for example, you could use “000012-engine_starting_loud” or “000012-whatever“
Any compatible sound file placed in the instruction sub-folder will be played
Then there is some info about the folders, sfx, jingle, single etc.
is it possible to move a subfolder from for example voice to jingle to make a sound stop the music, as long as the number in the folders name is intact?

the thing is that there shouldn't be any SINGLE in this game, and many of the SFX are actually jingles, for that you need to understand how they work and interrupt what's happening. I'll send you pictures of my folder sctructure, you can then sort them and it will work as expected.

2 weeks later
#776 4 years ago

I'm waiting for the samples from Warren.

Quoted from Sgrsgr:

I’ve been reworking the drums, then there is some mixing work to do to get rid of some heavy bass/muddy sound.
Locking forward to release soon.

Awesome you considered my advice!

1 week later
14
#778 4 years ago

Custom samples from Warren Davis arrived and they are fantastic.

I'm trying to integrate them in the next couple of days and it's time for a first release then.

Remember... Original music from the game restaurated. Not my reorchestration.

#786 4 years ago
Quoted from Sgrsgr:

Just to clearify. I made a promise I want to keep. He has make great job producing these files.
Sure I can just release the music but it is a lot of tweeking af sound levels with sfx, jingles and so on. Releaseing the music with different sfx and jingles will just make all volumes rhe wrong values.

Go for it.

#789 4 years ago
Quoted from toibs:

Cant wait for the release of this!! endprodukt (oli) has been working on this for years, so massive Kudos to him, and with another around the work of sgrsgr, it should be awesome!!

I have been ignoring it for years my friend.

This is also not the version with my music. But since the situation in Europe is crazy right now... Probably we will all be locked inside and maybe I'll find some time then...

12
#795 4 years ago

I'm also pretty close but testing some things. Got all the exclusive quotes in. Not as many (around 20) but it makes it feel special.

Maybe the lockdown in Germany will make me feel like finishing the music also at some point but definately gonna release the remaster first.

#799 4 years ago

Sgrsgr can feel free to mix his music with whatever he likes from my package which comes with 99% replaced SFX and Voice. Warren DAVIS!!!

11
#815 4 years ago

Okay this is gonna be underwhelming for everyone as it's not what you are waiting for.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g6z4kqfeok6xykf/AACgIY5abGLN_zK3mZp6aTdta?dl=0

Here you go. That my current version with all the SFX and Voice redone...
The music however in this version is NOT rerecorded, it's the original but remastered with top notch analog and digital gear.

It's not perfect, will never be. Have fun though. It comes with a few new quotes you never heard before. Hope you enjoy them.
Female voice is Tammy Tuckey.

I anyone feels like donating:

paypal.me/olivercarell

Thanks guys and sorry for being such a disappointment. Maybe one day you get what you deserve.

#825 4 years ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

YES, thank you. Donation sent!

Didn't arrive unfortunately. I appreciate the support
Thanks!

10
#833 4 years ago

Thanks to everyone. So I actually loaded up the music yesterday to find out that none of the plugins I used back in the day still work. Now it sounds even better to my ears....god I need to finish this. No pressure at all.

#837 4 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

It's now or never Olli!

Unfortunately I'm still working as I'm in an essential field.

#840 4 years ago

We are very lucky in the north of Germany. There is barely any cases or casualties. People adapted fast to the situation here and took it serious. That might be part of it.

Be safe everyone.

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