(Topic ID: 296121)

White Water Playfield Dead.

By Eddie

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Eddie
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

Machine was playing fine then this happend.

No playfield lighting (flashers or GI), no solenoids on playfield working. Playfield appears "dead", no backbox lighting. Game starts with start button have sound, Display (Color DMD), Test functions including switches all work, but no ball kicked out, flippers work.

I tested all the Voltages ,Fuses and Connectors,

Installed all new Ribbon Cables

Tested the Bridges

Reseated the Asic, All CPU socketed chips. Tested the 2803, replaced and socketed the Lm339 U6

Replaced the Driver board with a new one

Reflowed all of the pins on both PDBs and CPU

I think Im stuck.

Any Ideas? Thanks

#2 3 years ago

Sounds shitty man, sorry you're dealing with this. Did it literally all just go dead while playing or did you just turn it on and it was like this?

Sounds like the next step in the process of elimination is to try a different logic board. But of course the real problem is going to end up being some random piece of metal shorting some other random connection that you've yet to locate right???

Best of luck working through this, I'm about to work on a WH20 myself and this kind of challenge terrifies me!

#3 3 years ago

Has to be a bad connection or incorrectly seated CPU to Driver Board Ribbon Cable.
Remove and refit

#4 3 years ago

Reseat of Flip the ribbon cable from cpu to driver board. Sounds like a ribbon cable issue to me.

#5 3 years ago

Ground connection broken?

#6 3 years ago

All ribbon cables and connections were fine as the machine was playing perfectly when suddenly the issue arose.

All ribbon cables were reseated and then finally I replaced them with new cables the issue remains.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

No playfield lighting (flashers or GI), no solenoids on playfield working. Playfield appears "dead", no backbox lighting. Game starts with start button have sound, Display (Color DMD), Test functions including switches all work, but no ball kicked out, flippers work.

There is one signal that can cause all of these issues and that's the BLANKING signal from the CPU to the your Power Driver Board. This signal holds everything on the power board in a reset state until the CPU has successfully booted and will affect everything on the PDB that is controlled by the CPU if its missing ... including the GI. This signal leaves the CPU on J211-31 and comes into the PDB on J113-31 where it goes to pin 1 of every LS374 on the PDB to lock the outputs in an reset state until released by the CPU.

Check this page for more troubleshooting information: https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC_and_WPC-S_Games_With_No_Solenoid.2C_Flasher_or_Feature_Lamps.2C_A_Blanking_Signal_Issue

#8 3 years ago

Issue solved.

ZAZA suggested to put a logic probe to U12

Probe stopped working go figure.

Pulled U12 to test The chip in my chip tester and it passed.

I noticed an odd hard, red colored, substance on 5 legs.

I removed the substance cleaned all of the legs and socketed the chip. The game now works just fine.

No idea what the substance was yet it was not on the Board pads and not in the Vias it was only on the chips legs and on random spacing of the legs not all together like Pins 1-5.

No corrosion on the board or adjacent chips.

#9 3 years ago

Bad news powered up the machine just now to make sure all was well before packing it up and the issue is back????

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Bad news powered up the machine just now to make sure all was well before packing it up and the issue is back????

There is some good news at least as It seems like you have isolated the issue to the CPU board; without a working logic probe or oscilloscope you are going to be limited to checking continuity between points on the CPU board.

Blanking:
U5-8 to J211-31

DREN:
U9-47 to U12-1 AND U12-19

Without having ever worked on a missing DREN issue, I can only speculate that it would cause random activity on the Power Board as there is nothing to set the output state of U12 at power on and as soon as the power board came out of blanking the data lines from U12 would be clocked into the individual Solonoid and Lamp control circuits on the PDB resulting in odd behavior. Again, this is only a working theory, and I would love to know for sure.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

There is some good news at least as It seems like you have isolated the issue to the CPU board; without a working logic probe or oscilloscope you are going to be limited to checking continuity between points on the CPU board.
Blanking:
U5-8 to J211-31
DREN:
U9-47 to U12-1 AND U12-19
Without having ever worked on a missing DREN issue, I can only speculate that it would cause random activity on the Power Board as there is nothing to set the output state of U12 at power on and as soon as the power board came out of blanking the data lines from U12 would be clocked into the individual Solonoid and Lamp control circuits on the PDB resulting in odd behavior. Again, this is only a working theory, and I would love to know for sure.
[quoted image]

Things just got better the MPU is now blowing F113 and causing the 5v on the PDB to instantly cease.

In other words, when the MPU is connected to Power and nothing else and the machine is powered up. The MPUs LEDS remain Dead and the 5 v is gone from the PDB.
If the connector is left in place within a half minute the fuse F113 blows.
So now the MPU is causing some weird short that kills the 5v on the PDB
I took the PDB out of of the machine and went over the Bridges and everything else and all are fine.
The PDB unconnect from the MPU is fine all voltages are correct and F113 does not blow.
So the MPU is dead and causes the 5v circuit on the PDB to short.

#12 3 years ago

Most likely cause:

The 5 Volt rail runes on is on the top side of the CPU and in some places is very close to the boards mounting screws; these screws may or may not have nylon washers. The odds are that at least one of these screws has a captive lock washer that is digging into the 5V rail and shorting to ground.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
I've seen this type issue with some aftermarket boards.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twobits-wpc-mpu-complete-assembly#post-4624576

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

There is some good news at least as It seems like you have isolated the issue to the CPU board; without a working logic probe or oscilloscope you are going to be limited to checking continuity between points on the CPU board.
Blanking:
U5-8 to J211-31
DREN:
U9-47 to U12-1 AND U12-19
Without having ever worked on a missing DREN issue, I can only speculate that it would cause random activity on the Power Board as there is nothing to set the output state of U12 at power on and as soon as the power board came out of blanking the data lines from U12 would be clocked into the individual Solonoid and Lamp control circuits on the PDB resulting in odd behavior. Again, this is only a working theory, and I would love to know for sure.
[quoted image]

Not getting continuity from U-47 to U12- 19

I am getting Continuity from U12-19 to Connector pins 29 /30 at J211

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Not getting continuity from U-47 to U12- 19

Recheck this, if this is indeed the case you will need to install a jumper between U12-1 and U12-19 as these are supposed to be hardwired together on the processor board (see image below)

Quoted from Eddie:

am getting Continuity from U12-19 to Connector pins 29 /30 at J211

Other than a failed U12 I can see how this is possible, you may want to take resistance measurements instead of continuity measurements here.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Recheck this, if this is indeed the case you will need to install a jumper between U12-1 and U12-19 as these are supposed to be hardwired together on the processor board (see image below)

Other than a failed U12 I can see how this is possible, you may want to take resistance measurements instead of continuity measurements here. [quoted image]

I am getting continuity to U47 from U12-19

#16 3 years ago

Any other possibilities as to the cause?

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