White Water Bigfoot Problems

Picked up a White Water and Bigfoot is giving me fits. I'm sure that something got rattled loose in transit, but I'm stuck. I've reseated J118 and J122 several times, replaced F103, and reseated the 12v connections. Almost every time I turn it on, Bigfoot doesn't move, and I get a bigfoot error. There have been times that he moves a little, and there was that one time that he turned both directions and no switch error. I immediately went to test mode, and ran bigfoot opto test. He turned and both optos tested fine. When I tried to run the last test (position), it gave an error and seemed to lock up. When turning on, I have been looking in the cabinet to see if the bi-directional LED is lit. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Currently it is on during boot, but turns off when done. I get the bigfoot error, and he won't move in test mode.

I'm thinking that I will put new molex connectors on J118 and J122 as well as the secondary power connectors (J101 and J102) J101 is burned at pin 1, and that fixed an annoying reboot issue on STTNG for me. I know that I'm eliminating variables instead of true troubleshooting, but I'm better at that than I am using the DMM to trace the problem I can use DMM, but not smart enough yet to know what to test.

Anything else I should be trying or testing? Has to be something stupid, I just haven't gotten it...

#2 9 years ago

JGB

bballfan

Pinside+ Frequent

Wichita Falls, TX

14y 122K 1,499 10

The bi directional board may be the problem.
It is located underneath at the back or bottom left.
Capacitor C2 is known for leaking and ruining traces on the board.
Check for continuity from R9 to the middle leg of Q1 and from negative side of C2 to C3.
These traces run right under the Cap.

#3 9 years ago

TOM

mot

Inactive member

The post above is 100% perfect info. Look for corrosion or any signs of leakage around the capacitor on that board.

#4 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

I have looked at the board and don't see any corrosion at all. I haven't pulled to test yet, but will do that next.

Wanted to update that last time I turned on last night, no movement. Turned it on this AM, got no error, and he was spinning as he should. During the game he stopped working, then error next time I turned on. Is there anything that would stop working due to heat? When I've had bad transistors in the past, things just don't work. Guessing if I had a 12v problem, other things wouldn't work?

Thanks!
Aaron

#5 9 years ago

JGB

bballfan

Pinside+ Frequent

Wichita Falls, TX

14y 122K 1,499 10

You need to remove the Cap to see the damage.
Check continuity of the above listed.

#6 9 years ago

TOM

mot

Inactive member

I still suspect the motor driver board. Especially if the 12 V LED on that board is intermittent.

Try wiggling some of the bigger components on that board to see if there is anything that is broken off and just barely making contact.

#7 9 years ago

PAT

BR80

Pinside member

Thousand Oaks, CA

10y 85,050 633 14

Was having the same problems, rebuilt almost the entire motor board...still no luck.
Then found this on pinwiki:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Bi-Directional_Motor_Board_.28A-15680.29
The traces under C2 looked fine also, but checking the continuity told another story. Fixing that solved it and Bigfoot has been rock solid ever since.

#8 9 years ago

BRG

IdahoRealtor

Pinside member

Eagle, ID

13y 137K 6,778 11 10

Be careful messin' with Sasquatch.

#9 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

OK, tested and I have continuity to all points mentioned. Tested all transistors, and all good except that Q4 leg 1 read .331. That enough below .4 to cause concern? I also saw a few burned connections. I tested continuity from the burned connection at Q1 (pins 2 and 3 I think) to their destinations, and all tested good. Any other ideas?

IMG_1307.JPG

#10 9 years ago

TOM

mot

Inactive member

Great picture. U1 looks ugly and corroded. I think your capacitor has leaked and is shot. The traces going to C2 look very suspect.

Replace the capacitor. Use the legs of the new capacitor to jumper across those suspect traces.

#11 9 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Sacramento, CA

11y 82,550 5,597 6

Could be wrong, but I see corrosion on some traces. around the cap. As has been said, you need to pull (and replace) that C2 cap.

#12 9 years ago

Blackbeard

Pinside member

12y 106K 12,106 6 20

I agree with MOT.

Also, this new ability to zoom pics is awesome. Props to Robin.

#13 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

Will replace the cap, thanks. Just so that I am clear where am I jumpering to from the new cap? Have never done this kind of board repair, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing. It's not working as is, so not worried about making it worse.

Thanks!

#14 9 years ago

Eddie

Pintech

Monroe, NY

15y 111K 1,698 16 9

Trace from pin 2 on LM339 chip to the cap looks cooked as well as the chips pins. Replace the chip but socket it first. You may need to jumper to the cap and will have to replace it or should.

#15 9 years ago

SMK

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 162K 48,066 19 30 1

OP
Quoted from cincyITguy:
Just so that I am clear where am I jumpering to from the new cap? Have never done this kind of board repair, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing.

Not that hard. Following the trace on the board to it's destination, then jumper the leg straight to
there. It's help if you just think of the board as a set of wires. This thing connects to that thing with a trace, which is just a wire. So adding a wire isn't going to hurt anything.

Remember to check the contunuity.

#16 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

Off to the Shack.

Thanks

#17 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

Going to thank all of you, and provide some entertainment that will hopefully make you all feel better about your skills. Trying to do fine soldering with a big gun is not very easy, and I'm not that great at soldering anyway. All that said, it is working! Replaced the cap, and bypassed 3 surface traces that were burned.

Can't thank you all enough for helping me troubleshoot this thing. I learned how to trace boards because of this, and will know for next time.

Thanks again!
Aaron

IMG_1308.JPG

#18 9 years ago

SMK

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 162K 48,066 19 30 1

Usually do those jumpers on the back of the board
But seeing how big those globs of solder & wire gauge are, maybe it's for the best

#19 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

I know it's terrible and funny. But in my defense, my big arse gun wouldn't fit into the spaces, so I had to drop globs to hit where I needed it to go

Ahh, the back side. That would have been easier Live and learn.

#20 9 years ago

TOM

mot

Inactive member

OMG it's hideous! Someone in 10 years will be trying to fix their board, see that, and think "Oh my God this person had no idea what they were doing!"

But if it works, for now... whatever!

Here's to bballfan for correctly identifying the problem in the first post on the thread an hour after it was posted!

#21 9 years ago

SMK

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 162K 48,066 19 30 1

Quoted from mot:
Here's to bballfan for correctly identifying the problem in the first post on the thread an hour after it was posted!

*Swish*

#22 9 years ago

???

cincyITguy

Pinside member

I think that when I get my soldering station, the first project will be removing this fix and doing it better. Pins tend to stay in my house about 3 months, and I'd hate for a prospective trade to be lost based on this work

This site is the best, thanks again!

#23 9 years ago

JAM

Jam_Burglar

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 55,050 1,654 1

OP
Quoted from cincyITguy:
I know it's terrible and funny. But in my defense, my big arse gun wouldn't fit into the spaces, so I had to drop globs to hit where I needed it to go
Ahh, the back side. That would have been easier Live and learn.

LOL, love the response here. That is some heavy duty jumpering going on there and good lord those solder blobs are chunky. Haha. Works though!!!!!

4 months later

#24 8 years ago

???

Hunico

Pinside member

Blanes

10y 22,300 81 6 11

Hello, I have the same problem with my bigfoot, run slowly or not run
I see corrosion in U1 but the capacitor its ok??

What kind of reparation need? only trace of U1??

Thanks all

IMG_6505.jpg

IMG_6506.jpg

#25 8 years ago

TOM

mot

Inactive member

The capacitor is probably not OK. It leaked and now it's not doing it's job. Replace it.

But the bigger problem is the corrosion. The right way to fix that would probably be to remove any components that show corrosion, clean the board, neutralize the corrosion, replace components, and repair traces where necessary.

The bare minimum you could possibly (temporarily) get away with would be using a multimeter to buzz for continuity along the traces and find where the connections are broken. Add trace wires where necessary. You could possibly get away without replacing the capacitor, but you really should.

1 year later

#26 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

Quoted from bballfan:
The bi directional board may be the problem.
It is located underneath at the back or bottom left.
Capacitor C2 is known for leaking and ruining traces on the board.
Check for continuity from R9 to the middle leg of Q1 and from negative side of C2 to C3.
These traces run right under the Cap.

My Bigfoot won't turn it's head. I found this thread and checked for continuity. Everything's checks good. From the photo, I'm assuming the capacitor C2 has leaked so I plan on getting one to replace it. Should I check anything else before doing that? Do you think from the photo it's the capacitor?

Thanks!

Also, if I need to replace the capacitor, should I replace with the same type or is there a better one to use to avoid this problem?

IMG_0611 (resized).JPG

#27 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

I'll go ahead and replace the capacitor and see if that solves it.

2 weeks later

#28 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

I replaced the capacitor but Bigfoot still doesn't work. I checked continuity on the points mentioned above and all checks out. How do I test if it's the motor?

#29 6 years ago

TPD

teekee

Pinside member

Canton, OH

14y 104K 6,065 11 13 2

Quoted from spandol:
I replaced the capacitor but Bigfoot still doesn't work. I checked continuity on the points mentioned above and all checks out. How do I test if it's the motor?

I would just buy a new A-15680 MOTOR DRIVER BOARD... 99% of the time that will take care of your issue. You can PM Benny aka Pinballdoctor1 here and I think for less than $50 get one shipped to you.

#30 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

Awesome, thanks Tony. I'll send him a PM. That's a much better price than I found online.

1 week later

#31 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

Sp, I replaced the board. Now Bigfoot works in Test, All 3 tests correctly, but it will not work in game. When you turn the game on, Bigfoot will not reset. I tried moving the head by hand while the game was off but it won't reset when I turn the game on.

#32 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict

Anyone have any suggestions?

#33 6 years ago

???

Riles

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 15,150 74

This thread helped me get my bigfoot working again.
We shall see how long my dodgy boardwork holds out.
-Riles

#34 6 years ago

SPP

spandol

Pinside+ Addict