For the record, the image that was posted by jar155 is not the image posted by the show and has been poorly photo shopped to further someone's agenda. So does anyone still think that "just trying to help" includes editing images and attributing them to the show?

Yes, this is a terrible shirt too.

The only version of the image I could find had the photoshopped joke. But seriously, that art is far more along the lines of BDSM than pinball. That's the issue. It's not the type of art we should really be pushing. It's distasteful and it's not welcoming to all people.

I think most people got that the "BDSM Dungeon" bit was a joke.

"most People" That leaves some that would consider it the real deal.

Rich,

As a friend I need to suggest you just walk away from the T-shirt BS and just keep working on all the other stuff it takes to put on a great show. For some reason a few people have decided to make art on a T-shirt a much bigger issue than it has to be. As you said last night a T-shirt design is just a MINOR DETAIL when it comes to everything involved in organizing a great show. (From your post last night) - "I've spent far too much time already on what should be a minor detail for the show. Please drop the subject and move on. It isn't important."

I have no issue with people having an issue with this T-shirt design but I do have an issue with people who "suppositively" love the hobby trying to drag down a show just because of something silly like this. I have known Rich personally for a good many years and I am very sure this shirt design had nothing to do with women and everything to do with great classic art. Would I have picked that design in 2018 - probably not - but the message was sent and Rich has replied so time to move on.

While on the subject of shows don't forget to support "Force Flows" Saratoga, NY pinball show next weekend (August 10th & 11th) if you are anywhere near his area and can attend. He is trying had to grow this "little" show and could use any help he can get.

Still trying to figure out why someone from Utah cares what the t-shirt is in a Pennsylvania show...

I'll try to get the show back on track by saying that @jigglymartian and I have been picking up games to have in our booth at the show. We just picked up a documented home use only Lord of the Rings LE and HUO TSPP. I know he has a bunch of stuff they can bring. I'm sure he'll post a list as it gets closer. Right now I plan on bringing Avatar Pro, Monopoly if I can get it ready, Al's garage Band, at least one Twilight Zone maybe two. Also may be listing my Spider-Man black shortly.

If you're that shortsighted, I can't help you. You can either choose to educate yourself on why these things matter or continue to not see the problem. That's really your choice. But these sorts of things are problems. It's for the better of the show if that type of art isn't representing the show.

If you are a parent and happen to see that shirt being promoted on Facebook, are you likely to be more or less encouraged to take your kids to the show? If you're a woman just barely getting into pinball, and you think this might be a good first show for you, would that shirt encourage or discourage you from going? Think about it a bit.

We're trying to grow the hobby and make it more comfortable for everyone. Everybody knows that pinball used to be filled with art and themes that were aimed at appeasing straight, white male interests, but pinball is bigger than that. We're trying to move forward. The more welcoming we can make the hobby, the more healthy it will be for all involved.

Short-sighted is someone thinking that the world is going to cater to their views.

Before this was a hobby, it was a business. If you have something that appeals to people they will buy it. If not they won't. Sex/sexy sells. I'm sure they could sell the T-shirt with the girl on it and just a plain t-shirt that says white rose game show or any other game show and see which one brings in the most money. That would determine future sales offerings because it sold or didn't.

I have a daughter and I bring her to pinball shows and I have worn that t-shirt that I posted above. I'm a big fan if you don't like it don't buy it. Also a fan of free speech. It's not nudity it's cartoon art that reflects a lot of the games that are there.

Maybe you should start another thread on this subject and not clog up the show's thread. It is not the only show that has had t-shirts like this. I'm done talking about it on this thread.

Looking forward to the show!

Sorry to hear that Rich. I think that T-shirt is AWESOME. Put me down for five Size Large.

Last time I checked, the majority of pinballers are men...and not just because women don’t like the T-shirt art displayed at shows.

Creech looks like he’s into scantily clad women...

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I think you missed the part about PA vs Utah...

Colson,

Thanks for chiming in here. As you know - I am the "old guy" and I basically see nothing wrong with the art on that shirt and neither does my wife. However, we are also aware that people at very touchy these days about anything that makes a female look like a "sex object". Somehow it is OK for women to go on TV with nearly nothing on (leaving very little to the imagination) but if you happen to say something to a women like "that outfit looks nice on you" some people will spin it into "sexual harassment". If women don't want guys to look at them then maybe they should just start dressing like the Amish again!

As far as Rich's tee shirt design anyone who knows Rich knows his intent had nothing to do with degrading women. He was trying to come up with "unique art" that looked like something you would see on a vintage pinball machine. Maybe he made a mistake - maybe not - but at least as soon as he start getting negative feedback about it he quickly decided to back away from it. To me it is a shame he had to do that. If people didn't like it - just don't buy it - is the way I see things. But in this crazy world we live in today the voice of a few seems to control what the masses do?

Anyway - as Butch tried to do a few post back - how about we get back to talking about the show and get away from talking about a tee shirt! On that note - we expect to have two vendor spaces with lots of used boards (for parts or repair), a few Classic Bally & Stern machines, Wayne's Pinitech LED displays for the Classic Bally machines as well as a bunch of his NVRAM and some other cool stuff. By then Wayne might also be ready to announce what is coming next (as far as Pinitech goes) but that is his business so timing on that is totally up to him.

It's the same hobby. Oh, and hey, people from other states travel to these things. Listening to Nick Baldridge talk about his multi-bingo and the bingo and woodrail rows on a podcast this morning makes me want to go to the White Rose show. It's been on my radar for years, it's just bad timing for me this year, so I'm hoping to make it happen next year. I have NOTHING against the show nor its organizers. I just don't like the shirt that was presented and I know a lot of others that didn't either. It wasn't "just a few" as others keep saying.

Right vs. wrong is not confined by state lines. The shirt was in poor taste, and living in a different state has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Do you guys even listen to people who are affected by these sorts of things? If a woman says, "hey, thing X makes me uncomfortable," do you think it's a good idea to tell her to just accept it because "that's the way it is!" or is it a better idea to find out what's offensive and work to fix it? There's nothing inherently male about pinball, so the skewed demographics should cause people to question why they're skewed, not used as an excuse to just keep painting up events and promo materials to look like a trucker's lounge from the '70s.

If people are made uncomfortable, let's ask why. Let's not tell them they're wrong. Let's make the hobby better. Let's certainly not make some ridiculous idea up about opinions being confined to state lines when we constantly travel across them to attend shows and events. I've been out state for several this year already. Heck, our last local tournament top ten had people from Utah, Nevada, Massachusetts, Texas, and Michigan.

Ok, when you finally do make it to York... you can take note of the social, economic, and general clientel of South Central PA. You won't find it very liberal leaning, progressive, or flashy. That isn't to say they are behind... its to highlight that this area is from a simpler, blue collar time and attitude. They aren't as easily offended as some people want to make the new world order.

So when someone on the opposite side of the country tells you.. how you should feel... from an environment that has absolutely nothing to do with yours... yeah.. recognize your world isn't necessarily THEIR world.

I find your avatar and handle offensive and it makes me uncomfortable. Change it.

Trying to grow the hobby? The more welcoming we can make the hobby? For all involved?

LMFAO. That’s funny coming from a guy who posts endless negative comments and pictures in a clown puke thread, telling a ton of people...including new hobbyists, that their games look like total shit and they should be embarrassed.

Real welcoming and screams inclusion and growth.

But I agree we should drop this BS and get back to the show talk.

Forget it. Enjoy your bubble. The rest of the world will move forward and not run good people off. Want to know why places like Seattle, Portland, Denver, or San Francisco have such strong pinball scenes? It's because they include everyone and their communities continue to grow. They're inclusive, and we should all be trying to emulate that. If we want pinball on every corner in our cities, we need people on every corner to feel comfortable with pinball in their cities. It's simple, really.

None of this should be tied to liberal nor conservative thought. It's not political at all. It's not anything other than just being welcoming to all people.

Let it go! Everyone is entitled to think what they want and in the "free world" can pretty much say what they want also but enough is enough. Here in Central, PA not everything has to be a drama - we are good hard working people who look out for our friends & neighbors. Rich and other have asked for this tee shirt talk to just stop - this thread isn't about a tee shirt it is about a great pinball show.

And for anyone that doesn't know me the last thing in the world you want to do is to try to bully my friends. Talk all the BS you want about me - that is fine - but when you start talking about my friends accusing them of being someone they are not that doesn't sit well with me. I suggest you just let this go or I am sure a group of people from our local pinball community will put an end to it. Rich has a ton of friends in the area and at some point one of them is going to have enough of your BS and just put an end to it. Colson has already started to shed some light on you and I am sure many other will start chiming in if you just don't let this go.

Rich is a family man - maybe that shirt design was a mistake - he realized that - pulled the picture down and yet a couple dozen post later a few people just will not give up. Lets get some positive energy going here and just put the tee shirt thing to bed once and for all!

You're missing the point... the perspective of how many people are offended is going to be greatly driven by your environment and YOUR surroundings. I think you'd be hard pressed to find people in York County offended by something like this.

As someone who has been going to this show since the days of being in the Firehouse... and as someone who actually got married right there in downtown York.. I think I have a bit more perspective on the audience then you.

I think everyone is missing the point. The point is at some point this became a personal attach on Rich & the show. As Rich said last night - he doesn't have an issue with people not liking the shirt - but he does take issue when it gets personal or has a negative impact on the show. How about we just stop talking about it - agree to disagree - and get back to something positive & productive!

Ok, so I didn't realize I was dealing with tough guys! What have I waded into here?! That's a great way to deal with things, by the way. It's obvious that you guys don't actually care why people got upset by the shirt. If you don't care, then there's no point discussing it.

IT. IS. NOT. ABOUT. YOU.

---

The shirt thing is over. They pulled the post, which was the right thing to do. People wanted to know why there was a negative reaction to the shirt, so some of us tried to explain. You can't ask for an explanation and then tell people that you don't want to hear it. I won't say anything more on it, but I would suggest opening your eyes to the world a bit more. It's changing, and while you don't have to, you need to realize that most others are.

Not "tough guys" just a group of guys that will look out for one another. Again - yesterday Rich (the promoter of the show) asked for this to end and yet almost 24 hours later a few people need to keep bickering back and forth about it. This is Central, PA - not LA, or San Fransisco - and us local guys do have each others backs.

Rich has put in thousands of hours over the past several years trying to make the show better any way he can. He has lots of friends & family helping him but he basically is running the show alone. One little mistake is made (if it was a mistake at all) and a few people feel the need to attack him or the show? As a buddy of mine always said - "I don't want to be perfect - they crucified the last guy that was perfect". Mistakes are sometimes made - when they are quickly corrected there is no need to keep talking about them!

Im planning on bringing at least two games to the show.

I have a few sets of nice shiny refurbished legs if anybody needs some as well. All different sizes.

Colson,

Be careful talking about "legs" some people might get offended.

Nick is bringing his multi-bingo? You gotta come see that thing if so. Incredible fusion of old and new tech at a high level of mastery.

Colson,

Your wife know you posted that picture? What does that have to do with legs anyway - I don't see any chrome or feet? And I doubt they would do much good holding up a pinball machine anyway. But with those around I guess you wouldn't be worried about pinball anyway!

You playing that Dracula yet?

The Weed?

Joe,

I was just trying to remember your Pinside user. There is a guy looking for a little info on Excalibur and I didn't know if you still had that one I sold you? His user is "Erasmuz" if you want to try and help him out.

Later,
Skip

PS - Pretty cool how you talked Colson into delivering that machine to you on the way to my place. "On the way to my place" was a bit of a stretch since he had to head two different directions!

Yup, bolted to the floor! I’ll reach out to him.

Haha. Yeah Colson had fun playing Excalibur. I had something here he was looking for also, so it wasn’t so bad for him.

THANKS! I kind of figured you would likely still have it. See ya at York!

I'm in for 4 if the design remains available. 2 for my wife and I to wear at the show and two to take home and give to friends who appreciate this style of art. Can't wait to attend and support the show by spending money on all kinds of things, and of course there's the pinball....

Oh my word! Shocking!!!

This is all we want (along with you having a good time at the show). The vendors are what make the show possible and they all spend significant amount of money and time to attend the show. Please support them and buy from them.

I just responded. I will take care of him.

I'm in for an original one also. Bringing one or two games for free play again this year.

For the shirts, I want one XL for sure for me, and possibly one for the lady I lay with, which would depend on the color ways.

Mark me down for 2 of the original design shirts as well. I absolutely love it, one of the best yet. Can't wait for the show!

Show is getting closer. If anyone is willing to donate a game to our booth, we will mod it free. Prefer newer stern games, but others might work. Pm me if interested. Last year we did a Star Trek. Game would be set on free play and we ask that you keep it in our booth the entirety of the show. We need a firm commitment that you will be able to bring the game as we rely on it to promote our mods. We take very good care of the game while it’s in our possession, you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks in advance.

Definitely on both. And yeah man...working on the conversion as we speak. Obviously had to play about 10 or 20 games since Sunday before I started. Might bring it for free play.

Pinitech displays are killer. Lovin those. Tell Wayne I said thanks.

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PM sent on shirt order.

Any one got a Bally Supersonic they are bringing to the show? I'm looking for a fixer upper. Send me a PM.

Looking forward to the show. I have been going on and off for 10+ years. Just recently became more interested in it as a hobby.

Prepaid for a shirt with my vendor space last week . Will be proud to wear the original design. Vendor space will be packed. Will have a list of titles in early September.

Several of us booked rooms at La Quinta. Mention the show and the rate is discounted to $89.00.

T shirt design is adult oriented, I’m not offended I’m excited. In fact if it had bare t1ts I might buy several

Iplan on attending the show again this year and I’m gonna be really pissed if I don’t come home with one of the “offensive” T shirts and a Pinstar cloth bag with handles that I can hang from a pin gulp cup holder.

Makes me wonder if no one here has seen cartoons like Thunder Kats or has ever played Mortal Kombat before.

Nope sorry, don’t care for video games or SS pins. In fact in the early 80’s when EM’s were being replaced by Ms. PAC Man and Silver Ball mania, I stopped going to Arcades .

Keep the shirt! I’ll buy several as I need new shirts for the team this fall!

I'd buy two shirts too. Hoping this year will find a nice EATPM as I've had 3 get away

This year's Bingo Row is shaping up to be quite the event!

1) Another assortment of games to play
2) The Multi-Bingo (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/multi-bingo-machine) has had another year of polish, including 100% accurate coin flash and mechanical backbox animations programmed. I am looking forward to teaching new folks how to play and seeing the reaction to my hard work.
3) I just got a proof of this year's giveaway for completing 4 or 5 in a line, and you will want one of these - limited prints (100 total) of the beautiful Bingo Row artwork by comics artist Ryan Claytor. These are going to be gorgeous, and if you have any of his other posters/prints, you know what you are in for.
4) Dennis Dodel has found a Silver Sails, still in its original shipping box (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-s-in-the-box)! He is planning to bring it to the show and publicly unpack, set up, and (optimistically) have it playable by the public! This is exceptional. There are very few games from 1962 still in their original box, strapped to a pallet, unopened. Much less one that is extremely desirable.
5) Another collector is planning to bring a game that was never listed on any production list and only 1 has been found. It was just discovered last year, and is another exceptional rarity.
6) The largest number of bingo pinball collectors will be present this year, and some traveling quite a distance! Nice fellows, all. I look forward to catching up with them all.

What a show this will be! I cannot wait. Even if you don't like bingos, please stop by and see what's going on in Bingo Row. It is a once-in-a-lifetime event for several reasons!