(Topic ID: 242230)

White Rose Gameroom/York Show - 2019 Buy, Sell, Trade NO Hotel & Food

By tomdrum

5 months ago

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    #2 5 months ago

    I talked to Rich at Allentown and I'll have two spaces again this year. Already thinking about what I might be taking and we have not even unloaded from Allentown yet. In fact I have only been home about 15 minutes and have not even said hello to my wife yet!

    #12 5 months ago

    Something I have decided for York and going forward. I am not going to publish a list of machines coming or answer emails about what machines I am bringing. Every time I have tried to hold a machine for someone it turns into a mess somehow. Either they don't show and I have to bring the machine home. Condition wasn't what they expected. They ran out of room - etc.

    I was OK with all of that but this past weekend at Allentown I had something happen that really upset me. I was holding a machine for a guy and two hours after the show opened I had another guy come over and offer me a trade for a machine I really wanted. Since my "original guy" had not shown up I went ahead and made the trade. Just as I finalized that deal my "original guy" showed up and was very upset I already sold the machine. He was waiting in line to get into the show and I didn't know that.

    Anyway - that really upset me so to keep something like that from happening again I am just going to go with "first cash on the glass" buys anything going to a show. That way this stuff can't happen again.


    #16 5 months ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Are you referring to me the EBD we messaged about?

    No --- I had a guy interested in my Sorcerer and ended up selling it before he made it into the show.

    #18 5 months ago
    Quoted from PinDoctor82:

    I just made it to Pinfest for the first time as I live here near Allentown. I was actually born in York, though, and I'm thinking about attending this show too. In all honesty, in terms of size and amount of machines, can those of you who have attended both put into perspective the similarities or differences of them? I would love to make the trip with my dad if it's comparable in size and if they have similar distributors etc. who attend with newer machines. Thanks!

    York is a much smaller & more "laid back" show. As far as newer machines & vendors there are no where near as many at the York Show but it is still my favorite show. It just has a great feel to it and it is a lot quieter. My ears are still ringing from the Allentown Show and I am 1/2 deaf to begin with so all the noise shouldn't be a problem for me!

    Freeplay area typically has around 200 machines at York and over 250 at Allentown. York has a "Bingo Row" and more earlier machines (which is different than most shows) but still has a nice mix of newer stuff also. And lines to play machines are typically much shorter at York. I am sure more people will have more to say but I wouldn't miss either show if I lived local and was into pinball.

    1 month later
    #26 3 months ago

    Looks like it is time to start talking about & thinking about the York Show now that Pintastic is behind us. Sounds like Gabe & his crew had another great show. I came closer than ever to making the trip until I managed to get sick last week --- I guess there is always next year.

    Don't forget about the Saratoga Show in August if you are from that general area! But the next bigger show here in the north east is York the second weekend in October (just over 3 months away at this point in time).

    Lets continue to work together to make all of these great shows even better every year!

    1 month later
    #73 65 days ago
    Quoted from Murphdom:

    ISO: someone to revive this thread. The show is close and there isn’t much on here.

    Show is still almost two months away (53 days to be more exact). The York Show has always had a couple issues as far as talk about it before the show. First off this time of year is typically more about outdoor activities so not as many people are doing the pinball thing as heavy as they do in the Winter. And second it is right after the last "push" of vacation season, the labor day holiday & back to school time.

    The show is always a great show with plenty of machines to play & buy but there just isn't the same activity talking about it as you get with Allentown.

    As far as me personally I wish I could say what I was doing but it is hitting at a bad time for me again this year so I don't know yet if I'll be able to set up. Once we get closer to that time I'll post a list of what I am bringing or what I'll have for sale here at the house (about an hour west of the show). I am really hoping to be able to attend again this year as a vendor - last year the show was great for me - but timing is tough as always.

    #76 65 days ago
    Quoted from freddy:

    It’s a great place to buy good deal to be had.

    White Rose Gameroom Show (or the York Show) just has a "great feel" to it. It is really hard to describe in words other than "laid back feeling" but there is just something very-very special about this show. It isn't huge - it isn't small - it is "just right".

    Yes it would be nice to see a few more new parts vendors, a bigger flea market, etc. but too big and I think it would change the show. For anyone "on the fence" about attending, bringing a machine for freeplay or for sale, or getting a vendor space don't hesitate. Machines & parts typically sell well at the show, there are plenty of machines to play in the freeplay area - etc.

    Last year was my first year as a vendor at the show and I did great. I had been trying to set up at York for years and every year something kept that from happening. I finally did my first York Show in about 10 years last year and it was better than expected. Sadly I just don't know yet if I'll be able to make it this year - scheduling conflicts look like it will be tough for me (if not impossible) but I am doing all I can to be able to attend & set up again this year.

    I think Fall is a tough time of the year for a lot of people and that is likely what holds a lot of people back from bringing machines or setting up at the show. In any event I hope to be their again this year but I will not know for sure until about a week (or so) before the show. If I don't make it I would like to wish Rich & his crew another successful show and thank them for all the work they put into making York great every year.

    #79 65 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    I haven't talked to Rich M yet but I'm thinking I'll be a vendor again this year. Not sure if Rich (Jiggly_martian) is going to be able to come yet or not. I would prefer to have stuff pre-sold if possible. I brought home too many games last year. Right now I would have Amazing Spider-Man, Comet, BTTF and Star Trek Premium to bring.

    If I remember correctly I think both you and Rich brought mostly high end stuff last year & that is always risky with any show. I have found to be successful all of the time you really need a mix of cheaper, mid range & more expensive stuff regardless of the show. Also I didn't think you guys had a great space last year. I think if you are too close to the new machines and new part vendors you get overlooked. Personally I think you are better off further back in the hall if you are selling used machines. It just gets too crowded up by all the latest titles and new parts for my liking so I typically spend very little time in that area of a show.

    Just my 2 cents from what I observed last year at the show. We were in the back only a couple spaces from the back door and basically sold everything we brought with us except for a few parts. Two machines were delivered a week after the show but the deals were made at the show. I actually sold more at York last Fall than I did at Allentown last Spring.

    #84 65 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    I've tried to keep that in mind when grabbing games this summer, but I do like the nice stuff..
    I don't want to speak for Richie, I know he really wants to support the show and we have been talking about partnering up again. We actually liked our spots and took it as a compliment of being able to hang with the big boys (behind Cointaker & Pinball Star) both great neighbors and HUGE assets to the show..

    I fully understand it is fun being up front where all the action is but I don't think it is great for sales. I might be wrong but that area just seems a little to crowded to me. I agree all those "big time vendors" are what make shows great but sometimes it is easy to get lost when you are tucked in around them.

    I think most of us like "nice machines" but when selling it is important to consider the crowd. Over the years I have found selling 3 or 4 $1500 machines is a lot easier than finding a buyer for a $4500 to $6000 machine. Again not saying there isn't a market for machines in all price ranges but just from experience cheaper machines seem easier to sell at shows.

    In any event best of luck to you at the show! Hopefully I'll be able to make it again but it isn't looking good at this point. Only time will tell!

    #89 63 days ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    As far as me personally I wish I could say what I was doing but it is hitting at a bad time for me again this year so I don't know yet if I'll be able to set up. Once we get closer to that time I'll post a list of what I am bringing or what I'll have for sale here at the house (about an hour west of the show). I am really hoping to be able to attend again this year as a vendor - last year the show was great for me - but timing is tough as always.

    I can't get the show off my mind and the more I think about it the more I feel like I really have to do the show regardless of the negative impact it is going to have on the other stuff I need to get done before Winter. York is hands down my favorite show and yet I always seem to miss York yet can find time to do Allentown ever year? Don't get me wrong - Ivan & his crew do a great job with Allentown but I still prefer the "feel" of York over Allentown.

    Anyway I know people get sick of reading my post but I just keep thinking about things and I just feel like York is too important to me for me to miss it. Guess everything else just has to wait!

    #95 63 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    I know you're friends with Rich and you always do well with selling the machines that you bring. Plus it's in your backyard practically. I think you're a great asset to the show that probably needs it to maintain staying in the bigger Hall.

    Rich is a great guy and I try to support the show and way I can. Fall just always seems to be a very tough time of the year for me.

    You guys always bring a bunch of great stuff also I just think you missed the mark a little last year by having a little too much higher end stuff. What is crazy is you just never know what might sell at a show and this year maybe I'll be bringing the cheaper stuff home and other guys will be selling their better titles.

    Shows are always kind of hit & miss but I always figure it is easier to get "lunch money" out of someone than "dinner money" so I always try to cover the lower end stuff regardless of what type show I do. I learned this almost 50 years ago when I was doing car shows and toy train shows and it seems like it never fails. There are always people walking around with a few hundred in their pockets at shows but once you get to "a few thousand" that excludes a lot of people at most shows.

    From experience it always seems best to try to pre-sell higher end stuff before the shows and have cheaper stuff for sale at the show. But like I just said above now that I am talking about it watch this show be the total other direction!

    #122 62 days ago
    Quoted from Murphdom:

    I have never been to York. What is the turnout like for EM’s? Or is it mostly SS?

    York typically has a nice selection of EM's and early SS machines and has kind of become known for that. I don't know what percentage you will see but I know there are always a good many woodrails & EM's at the show as well as a decent selection of earlier SS stuff. If York is light on anything it is typically light on DMD machines according to what i have seen and people I have talked to.. I am sure others will chime in about this also but if you have never been it is worth the trip.

    #124 62 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    You can also look at past show threads with pictures to get an idea also.

    Great idea!

    #129 61 days ago
    Quoted from Gotemwill:

    It’s been several years since I’ve been able to make the York show. The antique auto show in Hershey is the same week. Glad to hear that there’s a nice showing for the older games. Do most have a price on them?

    I would say over 1/2 in the freeplay area are for sale at the show. Plus there is stuff for sale in vendors booths & in the flea market area. So there are likely around 200 (or more) working machines for sale at the show and also several dozen to 100 project machines depending on what vendors bring. This count doesn't include the latest releases for sale up in the front of the building I am just talking about the good old used machines likely for sale at an average show.

    #130 61 days ago

    Just putting this other there in case it will help someone in need. I have 6 or 8 fairly nice to very nice populated playfields I could bring to the show if they will help someone. My issue is I am currently talking with someone seriously interested in buying my parts business and these are "part of my inventory" for that sale. So if I make a deal with that buyer these might not be able to come to the show with me because at that point they would be theirs.

    Condition on these is from memory - I have not looked at any of them closely so I would have to verify conditions before finalizing anything.

    Anyway here is what I have if they will help anyone:

    A very nice FLIP FLOP fully populated with great art on the playfield (around $250 or $125 if you have a fully populated "junk" playfield to trade in)

    A very nice Buck Rogers fully populated with great art ($250 or $150 with "fully populated trade in)

    A pretty nice Charlies Angels fully populated and at least decent art $150 to $200 (still in the cabinet but cabinet not included)

    A nice Cue Ball Wizard around $500 to $550 but that might be a little off depending on value of parts on that

    A nice Judge Dredd fully populated but untested around $900 (again I need to take a closer look to finalize a price)

    And lastly I think was a decent fully populated Rock but I have to verify that.

    Also a Data East BATMAN fully populated but bad art. I had a buyer for this but never got it to them so this would be pending if they still want it $400

    Something tells me there is one more I am forgetting - if I discover that is the case I'll add that later. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I can only sell these if my potential buyer for the parts business is OK with me selling them if he decides to buy the business. I don't want to keep these sitting around if they will help someone but at the same time I don't feel right selling them if we make a deal on the business so I am in a tough spot with these.


    #147 59 days ago
    Quoted from Looprunner:

    On average, how many free play machine are there? And are they a mixture of new and old?

    Last year I think the count of freeplay machines was something like 165 to 170 on Friday. Nice mix of everything from a couple prewar machines right up to the latest titles. There is a bingo row for people interested in bingos, a nice selection of EM & also a fair amount of SS machines. That count of freeplay machines does not include new machines in vendor booths or other machines in vendors booths that might be on for people to play. For example I had 8 machines in my booth last year that were on for people to play them and they got as much action on them as a good many machines on the floor in freeplay

    1 week later
    #189 52 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Looking for a working Bally solid state transformer, the type that mounts in the head. Dead rectifier board OK. E122-125.

    There is a chance I still have one of those around but I didn't say that because I can't say 100% for sure. Typically they sell as fast as I can find them but I'll keep my eyes open for you.

    #196 51 days ago
    Quoted from wolftownjeff:

    Sure hope PinballStar makes it!

    It really makes me sad to see a vendors not being able to make the York Show especially someone like PinballStar. Rich does a great job with the show but for some reason Fall is a tough time of the year for a lot of people. I have only been able to make one show in the past 6 years due to scheduling conflicts so I fully understand vendors not being able to attend. But for shows to work they need a solid group of good vendors so it is upsetting to see someone else not able to attend.

    I am glad I decided to readjust my schedule so I could try to attend this year but I am just one of the "little guys" with some used stuff. It is the big guys not making it that really hurts. Hopefully enough people will step up and make deals with PinballStar to help them justify the cost of the show but if not they will surely be missed. Please help if you are on the fence about buying a new machine in the near future.

    #220 49 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Project games I'm looking to buy: Bally Flash Gordon, EBD (1981), Medusa and Fireball II.

    Can't help with any of those but if all goes as planned I should have 4 or 5 project machines along including: Flash, Genie, F-14, High Speed and maybe one additional I am forgetting. I'll also likely have a pretty nice Fish Tales & Strange Science along and several arcade machines that are pretty nice cosmetically and most of them are working but as found. Basically my trailer & van packed full as always.

    Please don't email about buying this stuff before the show, asking me to hold machines for you, asking prices, etc. I take machines to the shows to sell at the shows that is what keeps people coming to shows. If everything is sold or promised before the show that isn't fair to people paying to attend the show. For some reason people just don't seem to understand if everything is pre-sold or "only brought to the show if sold" there is no show - just a place to pick up and drop off machines. In the end that isn't good for the hobby or the show.

    #228 48 days ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Isn't this just a six of one/half dozen situation? I've actually been looking for an F14, specifically a project for a while now. I'm several hours from the show, but I'm not going to gamble and just hope it's still there when I arrive without a deal in place.
    This is an honest question so hopefully it doesn't read sarcastic - if you don't want emails, aren't willing to hold the games, or even say what prices you have in mind, why even bother posting them? It seems like you're just creating a Black Friday sale where they have 10 of "the amazing deal TVs" and want to draw as many people in and have them clamoring over each other for the great limited deal. Why not just keep quiet and show up with a load of games instead of talking about how you don't want to talk about them?

    For years I have tried to figure out how best to sell machines and it seems regardless of what you do someone doesn't like it. Last year for Allentown I set back 5 or 6 machines for specific people and most of those people either didn't show up for the game or tried to beat me down on price when I passed up on better offers because games were suppose to be sold.

    Then I had one guy get really pissed because I didn't hold a machine for him - he was suppose to meet me right at noon when the show opened and showed up at my space after 2 PM. About 5 minutes earlier I had a guy come offer me a trade for a machine is was in the market for so I made that trade. The guy was mad at me because he had to stand in line to get into the show? He had my cell number.

    Other times I have held machines I could have sold at the show just to have guys not show up for them and ended up bringing those machines home.

    When I try to sell machines here at the house people want dozens of pictures just to get back to me weeks later saying they couldn't come up with the money or make other excuses. Two weeks ago I took over 200 pictures of 6 different machines and sent them to "interested people" - all of those machines are still sitting in my garage - one excuse or another. I can't just walk up to machines and take pictures - every machine has to be moved from storage set up on legs - pictures taken etc. I wasted a full day to sell nothing!

    A couple of my friends in the hobby are so sick of the bull shit they just started wholesaling machines to Lloyd at Coinopwarehouse and I am getting close to doing the same thing. I have tried my best to work with people but regardless of what I do somehow I always seem to be the one that works their ass off to accomplish nothing. That is just starting to get old.

    If someone wants to come buy a machine from me before the show I will sell it. But I am not moving a half dozen machines, taking a bunch of pictures, and answering 20 emails just to have them say their wife will not let them buy another machine right now.

    I see your point about putting a list of stuff I'll likely be bringing to the show but on the flip side if everyone who plans on going to the show thinks everything is going to be sold before they get their what is the point of going to that show? I am just to old and worn out for all the BS it takes to sell machines these days. If people can't look at my feedbacks are realize I'll do my best to be fair with them then I really don't need the extra work. I have been trying to scale things back so I can travel more and instead I am working harder than ever to accomplish nothing? Lloyd sounds better ever time I reply to one of these post or emails!

    #232 48 days ago

    Typically I don't let any of this get to me but over the past few weeks life has been a real mess for me. I have been 1/2 sick for about 11 weeks and just can't seem to get back to 100%. While I was rather seriously I'll for about 3 to 4 weeks I got nothing done. That put me way behind with my "special request customers" wanting parts from me little parts business. Being sick has also put me behind financially and we are suppose to be heading on vacation for a few weeks right after the York Show.

    So all I really want is to be able to take care of my parts customers and also to sell a couple machines to help fund our trip. So far neither is happening - I waste time talking to people about machines, taking pictures of machines for people, posting here, etc with no results. That takes me away from getting parts dug out for my special request people and then I feel bad about that.

    I just wish one thing would work out for me and my life would get just a little easier. I just don't need the stress I am under right now. The good thing is York will likely be my last show since most of what we are trying to get sold off will be headed to York. Anything not sold at York will likely just be sold to Lloyd and then I should be done selling down our project stash as well as excess machines from our collection.

    In any event Rich (the promoter of the York Show) is a friend of mine and I want to support the show. Otherwise Lloyd would already have these machines. Sometimes the energy it takes to do shows and deal with people at the house just doesn't seem worth it. I am retired and want to start enjoying old age a little more while I still can. It isn't all that hard to understand but for some reason regardless of what I try to do it just isn't working right now.

    Sorry for another long post but I just need to vent a little and I am taking a break so here I am.

    #234 48 days ago

    I have not talked to Rich in a while but it seems like this years show is going to be a little light on vendors just from the people who have posted they can't make the show and people I have talked to that can't make it this year. Hopefully some other people will step up and fill in some of the empty vendor spaces or the show might end up moving back into the smaller hall. That would be sad to see with all the interest in pinball these days!

    People keep wanting more and more out of shows but too few people are actually stepping up and trying to make shows better. Without vendors there is no show! Freeplay is great but it takes more than a freeplay area for a show to be a success.

    Please do what you can to support the York Show as well as all the other area shows. The promoters need some help to make these shows a success. Fall is always a tough time of the year but if we want York to continue to grow we all need to do what we can to help the show.

    #238 48 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    It’s the same thing year after year. You can count on it like the cycles of the moon...

    The logic for posting machines is basically the same logic as posting machines that will be in freeplay. That information helps the show. Preselling doesn't help a show - that hurts the show. If people know there are going to be machines they are interested in for sale at the show they might just decided to attend. If people think it is just a place where all the deals are already gone then why go to the show if you are looking to buy a machine.

    That is also why I price machines the highest on set up day then trim my prices on Friday. If everything is sold on set up day there is no show for the paying customers. I do what is best for the show - not what is best for a couple people or best for me. For ever negative comment that is posted on Pinside about the way I do things I get 2 or 3 emails thanking me. So cry all you want - to me it is all about supporting these shows so they will be around in the future.

    One of the big issues at these shows is people selling cheap on Thursdays with those machines being moved to another vendors space at higher prices on Friday. Again something that doesn't help a show. What is the point of selling cheap on Thursday? Why not keep those deals for people who pay to attend the show on Friday. Do sellers really need to sell those machines that badly?

    Another thing - if I am so stupid how is it that I typically sell every machine I take to these shows? How many people setting up at shows typically come home with less than 10% of what they bring to the shows? I price machines fairly & do what I need to do to get as many machines as possible to new owners at every show. Last year at York I sold or traded every machine I took and about 75% of the parts I took. This Spring at Allentown I sold 3 trailer loads of machines and only brought home 3 parts machines I bought at the show. If my way is so screwed up why are my results so good show after show? And why do I get the feedbacks I get from my customers?

    Typically it is the same handful of negative people here on Pinside creating all the drama. If they spent their energy trying to help the hobby instead of being negative the hobby could be even better. Very few people put the good of everyone ahead of what is best for them. If everyone works together this hobby & these shows will continue to grow. But if we kill the golden goose that helps no one.

    #251 47 days ago
    Quoted from ibuypinballs:

    I will be there as a vendor to support the show and will have a fully loaded trailer of parts and project machines. I will have a list at the end of this week. I will agree the sales are not like Allentown for the higher price titles so I bring the more modest priced machines to York. Rich and his wife do a great job running the show and I thank them for that! Looking forward to the show. Pete AKA ibuypinballs


    I know you always support both York & Allentown and have done so for years (over 20 if my memory is correct). We need more guys like you in the hobby. Way too many people these days think they are owed something and don't give anything back to the hobby. Without guys like you and the other regular vendors at these shows things just wouldn't be the same. I have been in the hobby for a good many years but setting up at shows is something relatively new for me. So I don't consider myself one of the "backbone vendors" at these shows but I still like to do all I can for the shows & the hobby. Can't wait to see you again! Skip

    As far as Rich & the way he runs the show I don't think we could ask for a better promoter - he, his family & crew always do a great job. If I can find any fault with Rich it is that he is too nice but that isn't bad for anyone but Rich & his family. I just wish I could do more to help him make the show even better but it takes a group of people putting forth an effort not just the few regulars. Sadly York just doesn't have a big enough core of great vendors but ever year that seems to be getting a little better. Sadly it sounds like we are loosing several good vendors this year hopefully a few new ones will help fill in the void.

    #273 44 days ago
    Quoted from freddy:

    Ivan supports this show .he has games.

    Ivan typically has a couple vendor spaces at York and Rich typically has a couple at Allentown. I keep hoping to hear about a few new vendors coming to York but so far all I keep seeing here is people selling machines privately or people offering to bring machines if they are sold. Neither of those things will help Rich keep this show in the bigger & better building.

    Pete (I buy pinballs) seems to do a great job bringing plenty of stuff for sale at the show as well as delivering a few presold machines. But of all the guys I know that do these shows he is the only one that seems to have a great system down for doing this. He always has plenty for sale at the show even after selling a few ahead of time.

    Anyway - if any of you guys reading my post here know of anyone who might be able to fill a vendor space be sure to have them contact Rich and set up at the show. As I have said way too many times already without a great group of vendors shows just don't do nearly as well.

    #274 44 days ago
    Quoted from jjoravec:

    Pinsound will not be at the show this year. I just got an email from the saying they will not be attending.

    Yet another vendor gone! We need to get some added or that big hall is going to look pretty empty and Rich will not take in the revenue he needs to continue in that bigger hall. Come on guys - if we want to have a great York show again next year some more people need to step up and fill the hall this year. I have a bad felling about the show this year because of so many vendors not being able to make the show. Please prove me wrong!

    #276 44 days ago
    Quoted from Pachill:

    would you be coming to the?

    If you are asking if I'll be at the show the answer is yes. Even though I am way behind after being sick for 11 weeks and currently trying to get over walking pneumonia I plan on having two spaces again this year. My wife isn't happy with me because she knows at my age I really need to start slowing down some but regardless if I am alive I will be at the show. And if not no one can blame me for not coming because I'll be 6' under.

    #328 38 days ago

    After a couple rough days and realizing I just don't have time for everything right now because of not being able to kick this walking pneumonia I am starting to rethink my fall plans. I had a chance to sell off the balance of the arcade machines we had for sale to a previous customer and also sold off all my extra arcade stuff so I no longer have arcade machines to bring to the show.

    Anyway to keep things "short & simple" I am thinking about selling off the balance of our pinball machines before the show if I can. Then just bringing backglasses & other parts to the show. Today I realized just how sick I am after moving 8 arcade machines into my trailer, driving several hours to deliver them then unloading and driving home. I just don't see felling well enough before York to move 6 or 8 pinball machines into the show then be at the show long hours 3 days in a row. I have been sick for just over 3 months and just don't seem to be getting better.

    So if anyone is interested in any of these machines contact me ASAP. If I don't find buyers for them quickly I am going to contact Lloyd (coinopwarehouse) and offer the load to him. Prices are fairly firm unless you take several machines but if you look at me feedbacks you will see I price things fairly for overall condition and will work with people.

    F-14 (nice working project) - needs shopped and minor repairs $1400
    High Speed (nice working project) - needs shopped and minor repairs $1400
    Fish Tales (fairly nice overall typical cabinet fade) - working but not gone through completely $3200
    Strange Science (working & shopped not to long ago) - might need a few tweaks $1700
    Genie (fairly nice overall - no MPU - rest of boards & machine untested $900
    Evel Knievel (truly a project someone lacquered the playfield and it is very yellowed)
    Nice backglass, decent cabinet, boards untested but likely typical battery damage on MPU $900
    Flash (missing head harness * long story * major project) $450 (decent playfield, cabinet & backglass)

    Please don't ask for pictures - right now only a couple of these machines are set up and I just don't feel well enough to deal with moving stuff around right now. If you are fairly local and want to come see them send me a PM. Otherwise I'll add pictures to my Pinside listings as I feel up to it. After I post this I am going to list each of these in the marketplace.

    SORRY FOR MY CHANGE IN PLANS! As long as I am not in the hospital I will still be set up at the show. I just don't have it "in me" right now to bring all of these machines along. SORRY! Skip

    #330 38 days ago
    Quoted from twoplays25c:

    I hope you get to feelin' better Skip!

    Thanks! Third visit to the doctor this coming Monday the "horse" antibiotics they gave me don't seem to be doing anything so time from them to try again. Typically I don't worry about me but this is starting to "freak me out a little". Going on 13 weeks and still feel like shit.

    #363 35 days ago
    Quoted from PinballSTAR:

    I apologize for 2nd post but doing my best to try to make it to the show to bring some stuff for folks to play / buy and support the show... Right now we don't have any presales to help us justify the effort... so I'm making another little push...
    PinballSTAR is not sure yet of our ability to attend the show this year due to some other personal commitments we have. But we are going to try to have a presence and hire staff to cover the booth when we can't be there if we get some presold games to bring and have customers pick up. Most will be NIB opened at show. Games must remain til end of show Saturday. Show discounts too ! No shipping cost.
    These are the games available :
    * Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road : 11,500 - 500 = 11,000
    * Dialed In LE : 9,000 - 500 = 8,500
    * Willy Wonka LE : 9,500 - 500 = 9,000
    * Attack from Mars Remake : CE 6,000 - 300 = 5,700 / SE 7,300 - 400
    = 6,900
    * Monster Bash Remake : CE 6,000 - 300 = 5,700 / SE 7,300 - 400
    = 6,900 / LE 8,000 (won't open these up)
    * Houdini : 7,000 - 500 = 6,500
    * Oktoberfest: 7,400 - 500 = 6,900
    * Thunderbirds : 5,000 - 1,000 = 4,000 (Previously used at Allentown Pinfest in May then wrapped up)
    * Multimorphic P3 : Fred ROCS mini game with preorders - not for pickup at show.
    * VP Cabs Vertigo (60 video games, classic pinball tables, and Zen Studios FX3) with all upgrades - computer and LED buttons : 4,150 - 600 = 3,500 / Vortex (table top / wall mount version of Vertigo) $ 3,100 - $ 600 = $ 2,500
    If you can’t make the show and looking for something above let us know we’ll try to accommodate you, but show pricing is for pick up at show.
    Again, we will gauge our ability to attend and provide these deals based on what we pre-sell.
    Email Joe at Sales@PinballSTAR.com
    Joe Newhart
    PinballSTAR Amusements

    Joe - PLEASE keep trying even if you post this a couple more times I think it just shows you are making every attempt possible to be at the show. I have never even walked over and played one of you machines at a show (typically I have too much going on at my booth) but I know a ton of people really appreciate you bringing machines to the shows. People that have never set up at a show don't realize the work & expenses involved. Thanks for supporting our local shows and you will be missed if you are not able to secure enough sales to justify the cost. But I know Rich understands and you also need to do what is best for you.

    The main thing is keep trying as long as you can - people visiting this site will not mind if you bump this a few times if that is what it takes to get your machines to the show!

    Thanks Again!

    #370 35 days ago


    Sometimes something "just isn't in the cards". I have known Rich longer than he has been running the show and since he took the show over I have only made it to the show once. Every other year there has been something going on with family that kept me from attending (not little stuff but stuff like my mother-in-law and father-in law dying the week before the show or helping my son move the weekend of the show). It always really upset me not to make the show as a vendor but not only that I couldn't even make the show just to walk around.

    Last year was my first year at the show as a vendor and I did great so I couldn't wait to take a nice load of machines again this year. Now I am "major league" sick and am afraid to attempt that. I still plan on having a space or two but I need to bring smaller & lighter stuff since I'll be setting up by myself and have been sick for over 3 months. They ran more test Monday and I go back to the doctor tomorrow so I should know more by tomorrow night but at this point my plan is still two spaces.

    I don't know why but Fall is always a tough time of the year for me. Such is life!

    #402 31 days ago
    Quoted from Flipperfun:Any spaces left in the flea market inside?

    I am sure Rich still will have spaces available just drop him an email.

    You can contact Rich directly through Pinside at: rmarket --- or contact him through the York Show. Just google either White Rose Pinball Show or York Pinball Show and get his direct email

    Sadly I know of several dealers that can't make it this year so I think Rich still has plenty of open spaces. I have not talked to him directly but he is trying to fill that bigger hall again this year and I know he didn't sell out spaces last year so I doubt he is sold out yet.

    I did great at the show last year and can't wait to set up again. Sadly I have walking pneumonia so my set up will be smaller than I would like but I still expect to have two spaces.

    #406 31 days ago
    Quoted from rmarket:

    Yes, we still have indoor, outdoor and vendor spots available. If you want one, let me know.
    At this point we have more vendors signed up for the show than we had last year. While a few vendors can't make the show due for various reasons we still are going to have a great selection of vendors at the show.


    Glad to hear you are doing good filling vendor spaces. I'll be in touch shortly. I have been waiting for more test to be scheduled and after those I need to see if the doctor will "clear me" to do 3 days in a row like that. After almost 14 weeks of being sick I just want this over but old bodies don't heal as quickly as younger ones. "Life sucks and then you die".

    I'll be in touch ASAP.


    #431 28 days ago

    I am starting to try and get my load figured out for the show since I needed to make adjustments and not bring machines along because of some health issues. A few things I'll likely be bringing along for sure will be some used playfield glass at $5 a sheet, EM back doors at $20 to $25 each, some wall art backglasses $20 to $40 each depending on condition and a pile of used side rails $5 to $10 a pair as well as some coin boxes without lids for $5 each.

    I don't know what else will be coming along but for now I am fairly sure this stuff will make it. One other thing I have that might help someone is a base cabinet with playfield for a Bell SATURN II pinball machine. No head or backglass just the lower cabinet with the playfield in it for $200.

    I also have 3 or 4 SS heads without machines I'll likely bring also but I don't have a list of those yet.

    And lastly a few fully populated Playfields including: Last Action Hero (around $800), Cue Ball WIzard (around $500) , Judge Dredd (Around $900) , and Rock (around $250) I could bring along if pre sold.

    #443 27 days ago

    "Silly Stuff" I plan on bringing along will include:

    EM Side Rails (with nylon glass guides) --- price $5 to $10 a pair including glass guides (some early SS also)
    Wooden "necks" (the wood between the body & head) mostly EM's --- $5 each
    Wooden Legs from Woodrail Machines --- $25 to $35 a set ($5 each for singles)
    Some "stray" metal legs --- $3 each (matched sets $20)
    Wall art backglasses --- $20 to $50 each (some might be OK to use in machines)
    Metal Back doors from EM machines --- $20 to $25 each
    Used Playfield Glass (standard size) --- $5 a sheet
    Coin Boxes without lids --- $5 each

    Still working on more odds & ends just to keep things interesting! My main reason for posting this stuff is so people can have an idea what they might want to research before they get to the show. Some stuff I have labelled but a lot of it will need to be "matched up" so if you need something like a coin box for a woodrail or EM machine make sure you know size, legs etc the same way. And measure your heads needing back door so you can see if I happen to have the one you need.

    #448 26 days ago

    Something I am "on the fence" about bringing to the show is a "project" Model "201" DH 200 SEEBURG JUKEBOX. I purchased this earlier this year thinking I would get it restored and add it to the gameroom but we have since decided to greatly reduce the size of the gameroom and I really don't have room for it anymore.

    I never even plugged it in to try it because the cord is locked in the cabinet behind the amp and I don't have a key to access that area of the machine. It is my understanding keys for these were kind of universal (except for the coin box) so I didn't want to damage the original lock if I could get a key for it. But I never tried finding the correct key because this was going to be a Winter project.

    There appears to be a needle in a box in the bottom of the front of the cabinet & machine looks to be complete except for the door that covers the amp and the coin box door. I am looking to get somewhere near $1000 for it as it sits if anyone is interested but I'll consider a serious offer close to that.

    If you are local and want to come see it before the show I would be more than happy to show it to you. I don't have pictures yet and it is kind of buried right now but I'll be moving stuff round getting ready for the show starting early next week.

    With the "taillight fins" on the grill & shape of the cabinet this is one of my favorite Seeburg Jukeboxes. I really hate thinking about selling it but I just don't have time or space for everything I would love to keep.

    THANKS! Skip

    #453 26 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Looking for a Bally solid state lower cabinet. Solid without blown out bottom. Hinged head style is preferred but will consider all. I can pick up on Friday only.

    I know I don't have a hinged style around but I'll see if I have anything else that might work for you. I'll be "processing through" a bunch of machines next week getting stuff ready for the show and also getting ready to take a load of "junk cabinets" out to Western PA to be made into art.

    Thankfully I have a guy that saves stuff not worth saving for machines and makes award winning art out of them. Sadly I just give the cabinets away but at least he covers my fuel cost to deliver them. Still better then seeing them end up in a landfill somewhere but I really wish the guy lived 4 hours closer. It is tough wasting 10 hours everything I take a trailer load of "junk cabinets" to him.

    Check back with me next weekend and I'll let you know if I found anything that might work for you.

    #464 25 days ago

    Anyone who has "junk" they want to clear out stop by and see me. I am always in the market for parts machines and pinball parts. Even though I have the parts business for sale and think I have a buyer nothing is finalized yet. And even if I do sell the business the buyer will not complain about more machines added to the mix. So if you have stuff you are tired of tripping over or walking around drop me a PM and we can talk. Or just bring it along and see me at the show.

    #469 25 days ago
    Quoted from the96stang:

    I'm still on the fence about going. Would one call this a sellers show? What games sell well there?

    Typically York draws customers for "cheaper" machines but there is a full range of stuff both to play and for sale. York has always been my favorite show not because of the size of the show but because it feels like a good old pair of shoes. There is just something very comfortable about being at the show. It never seems to get as crazy as Allentown but still has a nice selection of machines in freeplay.

    If you are looking for a show with a ton of vendors Allentown is much bigger as far as that end of things go. If you are looking for a show where you can enjoy playing over 150 and 200 machines in freeplay ranging from woodrails to the latest machines and that includes stuff like a bingo row you will not be disappointed. York is typically a little light on newer SS stuff and a little heavier on EM's but I think that is what makes York so neat. It isn't just the "latest & greatest" it is a full range of everything pinball.

    I find prices of machines seem to be a little cheaper than Allentown but with most of the same people attending both shows I really don't know why it seems that way. It might be partly because the best deals don't all happen on Thursday at York. As with any show there is some wheeling & dealing on set up day but nothing as crazy as Allentown can get as far as that goes from me experience with both shows.

    I am sure others will say more about the show but as I said above York just has a great feel to it.

    #472 25 days ago
    Quoted from poppapin:

    I could use a set of decent 27" Gottlieb EM legs. Probably be there Friday, thanks

    Find me in the flea market area and I should have a couple sets along with me. I will not have them out on display for sale but I will have them set back for people how ask about them. Depending on condition price should be around $25 a set (give or take $5)

    I think all the "spare legs" I have are now spoken for. If you need a set and are not already on my list just stop by and ask if I found any extras. THANKS! Skip

    #477 24 days ago
    Quoted from Ockeyhead:

    The building that the show is in now has more space than the other two previous buildings where the show was held. The York Show has grown incrementally throughout the years, but it's not Allentown wall to wall commotion. The York Show is accommodating & comfortable w/ a diverse selection of virtually everything pinball related. The current space is able to house approximately 200 machines + the flea market vendors. York is absolutely my favorite show on the planet!

    I couldn't agree more! And the promoters at York have always done a great job also. I have known Rich since before he took over the show and Rich will do more than any other promoter I know for his vendors & customers. Not taking away from Ivan, Gabe, or anyone else that runs a show but if I had to say something bad about Rich it is he is too good to people and at times that isn't being fair to himself or his family. I knew of the previous promoter that had York originally but I didn't know him personally. But even before Rich took over the show a few years ago it had a great "feel" to it.

    As far as the "new building" it is a lot bigger and does have a bit of a "cold feeling" to it compared to the other building the show was in before it grew. But with growth it was necessary to move to the bigger hall. I know Rich is still "on the fence" about the move because he has yet to have the turnout of vendors he needs to cover the extra expense of that bigger hall. So time will tell if the show stays in the bigger hall or moves back to one of the other halls.

    With that said PLEASE do all you can to help Rich stay in the bigger hall. Growth of these shows is good for the hobby and I hate to see things scaled back if it isn't necessary.

    #491 23 days ago

    Two weeks from today we will be talking about this show in the Past Tense and in about 10 days vendors will be on the road to start getting things ready for the show. Let's all do what ever we can to help Rich keep the show in the bigger hall. If you have not registered games get that done. If you have extra stuff to sell rent a flea market space and help the show as well as helping yourself get that much needed space back.

    If you are coming to the show without parts or machines bring a friend along to help boost ticket sales. If you have a friend or neighbor you think would enjoy pinball machines talk them into coming to the show. ETC.- Etc.- etc.

    If we all do just a little to help the show maybe Rich will decide to keep the show in the bigger hall. If we don't the only ones to blame will be US! I have no affiliation with the show I just love the hobby and know York could be so much more than what it is. Ivan has done a great job with Allentown but Allentown is limited by the space of the buildings York does not have that issue.

    York's potential is only limited by the effort everyone is willing to put into making the show even bigger & better. As a past member of the TCA (Train Collectors Association) I know how many vendors & customers the York Fairground will hold. In the past when I was setting up at the two TCA shows each year they used every building at the fairground and still sold out the show every year. Things have changed a lot with that hobby and the fairground has added several building since I was setting up at that show but it was amazing to see thousands of fellow collectors at the biggest train show on the planet. The York Pinball Show could be the same way if everyone worked to help it grow.

    #494 23 days ago
    Quoted from Looprunner:

    I'm skipping the TCA show to attend the pinball show this year! They still use 90% of the buildings in the TCA show . I'm looking forward to thia show and bringing someone with me!

    Great to hear the TCA is still doing well at York. The wife & I visited the TCA museum for the first time in about 20 years a couple weeks ago and that place is still looking great. I am thinking about joining the TCA again and messing with my Lionel collection for the first time in 30 years once I get more of this pinball stuff sold off. Trains are not a neat as pinball machines but they were a big part of my childhood and I do miss them.

    #508 22 days ago
    Quoted from Slogan1111:

    Geez, will you have anything to sell at the show?

    Pete always has a nice load of stuff to sell at every show. He is one of the guys that supports the shows and still manages to get plenty of pre-sales. There aren't many guys out there that do it as good as Pete does! And he has been doing it forever - I don't know exactly how long but at a guess I would say close to 20 years if not longer.

    #514 21 days ago
    Quoted from yfz450:

    Abra is sold. Thanks to all that inquired.


    Are you bringing it to the show for delivery? If you are not going to make it I'll miss you guys! Skip

    #519 21 days ago
    Quoted from EMPins:

    Looking for a head for a Bally Rocket III if anyone has one.

    I almost had one of those to part out a year or so ago but I didn't get it. You might want to email Pete (Ibuypinballs) last post #507 here. He was clearing out a bunch of stuff from a friend's estate over the past year or more. There might be one in the stash from that. I don't have a clue if he is done with that yet but I know he worked with the stuff for almost a year and wasn't finished last time I talked to him about it.

    #523 21 days ago

    I talked to Rich tonight and thanks to the lack of support it looks like the show will be headed back to the smaller hall next year. I don't know if Rich will be upset with me making this post or not but I am really sad to here people did not "step up" and support the show like they should have.

    So many parking lot deals, so much stuff getting sold before the show, so few people registering games ahead of time for freeplay, all contributed to this. DO NOT blame Rich -- you guys dropped the ball! For two years now Rich has worked very hard to help the show grow but he can't do it alone. So next year when he runs out of space for freeplay machines & vendors in the smaller hall look in the mirror - it wasn't Rich's fault it was everyone's fault that didn't do all they could to help the show grow.

    It isn't too late to change this but unless more dealers step up and fill spaces and more people register games for freeplay you know where the show is headed next year! I really don't care because we are getting ready to "step away" from the hobby but I am sad for the people who have supported the show and for Rich & his family.

    Rich - I am sorry if you didn't want this posted but I feel as though there is still a chance to turn things around. If people don't know what is going on until it is too late there will be no turning back. So I feel as though it is important for people to know what is about to happen.

    #532 21 days ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    So why is Chip telling us, after after talking to you last night, that people aren't supporting the show and the show will be moving back to the smaller hall? Which is it? I don't have a problem with you at all, I just prefer not to attend shows that prefer to market to the co-magnon element of the hobby that is perfectly happy keeping pinball in the dark ages.

    What it is is pretty simple. York Fairground has several buildings and when you outgrow one building and move to the next size building they can not tailor a building to your needs - the size of a building is what it is. When Rich jumped from a smaller hall to the bigger one it was a HUGE jump in square footage & rent. I don't want to speak for him but I think the first year that move actually cost him money out of his pocket beyond what the show took in. The second year in the "bigger building" was a little better but still not a huge success as far as getting spaces filled so again for all the work that goes into a show Rich just didn't make much money.

    Now we are at the third year of the show - Rich is watching people post here and making parking lot deals without helping the show and he is getting discouraged. I can't say that I blame him.

    Allentown keeps growing because Ivan has a lot of support from the pinball community and that is something Rich doesn't seem to get. I can't say why but I know part of it is Fall is a tough time of the year for a show. On top of that Allentown didn't grow all that much when you think about how huge the outside flea market are was years ago. Ivan basically just moved a big show inside instead of having 1/2 the show in the parking lot.

    #533 21 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    I thought Rich posted there were only 3 vendor spots left? I don't consider that bad at all considering pinball star was unable to make it this year.

    He only had 3 vendor spaces but he has a ton of flea market space open yet and isn't getting the support he needs to continue in that bigger hall. I don't remember exactly the amount of extra space he is renting but I think the bigger hall is about 30% bigger. That is a lot more space & rent.

    Rich didn't want to bring this up and was just going to quietly move the show back into the smaller hall. I felt a need to give people a chance to help Rich keep the show in the bigger hall. I am not involved with the show in any way my only interest in any of this is the fact that Rich is a friend on mine and I hate to see him struggle when he is trying to do something good for the pinball community.

    What people don't realize is promoters are not what makes a show - it is the pinball community that is in control of that. All promoters do is take the risk of renting the space then try to fill that space. No need to get into a lot of debates here - the simple fact is if Rich doesn't get the support he heeds the show will be in the smaller hall next year. It isn't rocket science!

    #534 21 days ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Perhaps he should come up with an even trashier t-shirt design this year to pull more neckbeards out of the woodwork? Time to start looking at the method...because Allentown seems to be growing every year, not shrinking.

    Rich had nothing to do with that shirt design - it was actually a couple female members of his family that did that design. Rich is a busy guy and passed that task off to someone else to handle and that someone else was a female. So if you have an issue with the design that issue shouldn't be with Rich. Again I am likely saying more than I should because Rich tells me stuff in confidence but it really gets under my skin to see someone taking the heat for stuff he didn't even have any involvement with.

    Bottom line is what Rich said earlier - it is pretty simple if you don't like Rich or like the show stay the hell home. But if that is the case DON'T use this thread to advertise machines you have for sale. All this type BS is why I am leaving the hobby after this show. We will still have our pinball collection but I will no longer be doing shows, selling parts online, and visiting Pinside after the first of the new year. It just isn't fun anymore!

    #539 21 days ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    I think a lot has to do with location also. Allentown is a closer drive for people coming from the north or east of PA. So brings in a bigger spectator crowd. A bigger crowd will bring in more vendors. I've been going to York for over a decade and really don't care if it's the biggest show or smallest show. Always thought it was about hobbyist getting together, having fun, selling and buying a few things.

    Ivan, Rich & I have talked a lot about that a fair amount and I think there are actually a half dozen reasons Allentown has a lot more vendors & support. Location being close to so many big cities helps for sure, farmers market food is right on site, time of the year also helps, and one last thing is people in central PA are known for being cheap. So factor all of that into things and it makes sense York will not grow as quickly as Allentown did.

    Sadly Allentown is out of space and can't grow. York is the other extreme - unlimited room for growth as far as the venue. If only Allentown had the space York does we could have something truly great in Allentown each Spring. But for now the biggest issue at hand is the future of York in the bigger hall.

    #551 20 days ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Rich unveiled the preliminary shirt design early last year, and it set off a firestorm on social media. He chose to change nothing, double down and continue to go through with having the shirts made and sold out of them at the show. Sure, it was a "success" in the moment, but how many people were turned off from coming to the show at all after the initial announcement and social media storm? I want to see this hobby grow, and times are changing. This isn't 1986 any more. One of the great growing and untapped markets of this hobby are among women and kids. There are likely many women out there who stay away from pinball due to the greasy, sexist stereotypes that are reinforced by the t-shirt design from this show. Yes, it is a free world...but when a promoter of a show decides to market the hobby in this manner, I am personally not going to support it. For someone that wants to see the show get bigger, why would you purposely try to alienate a portion of your market? You should be looking to attract as many different demographics as you can, not placate to a vocal minority. If you have a problem with me standing up for what I believe in, Chip/Rich...i'm sorry you feel that way. Good luck with your endeavors...my involvement either way is pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things.

    My name is SKIP not CHIP but you seem to be the one that has a "CHIP" on your shoulder. Rich lost a lot of money on the shirts last year trying to make people happy with an alternative shirt made that didn't sell thanks to a few people bashing the original shirt design. As Rich said the original "offensive to a few" shirt was designed by a woman with school age children. Maybe it wasn't for everyone but most people seemed to love it. My wife even wanted one but they were sold out before I could get one for her.

    Art is art - it has nothing to do with sexism it was just something similar to the art of the day when these great classic old machines were being made. Maybe it is time to go back to all the old churches painted by the masters of their day and put tops on all the topless women in their paintings? People are just way too uptight these days!

    #560 20 days ago
    Quoted from cait001:

    As prices rise and rise, definitely seeing less people willing to bring games for freeplay at shows.

    It isn't really less people bringing machines to the York Show - each year there are more machines at the show then the previous year and this year will likely end up the same way in the end. The issue at York is the hall is like 30% bigger so you need almost double the freeplay machines to fill up the extra space.

    When renting a hall like at the York Show the electric is dropped from the ceiling. Each "drop" cost a lot of money so if Rich gets 4 extra lines dropped it could cost around $400 extra just for that. (Last I heard was about 5 years ago and each cord dropped was $100 back then so it might even be more now). Unless you have been a promoter or involved with something like these shows you don't realize all the cost involved in renting a hall.

    The "devil is in the details" and most people don't care about that. Bottom line is in less than 3 weeks Rich will have to reserve a hall for next year and depending on how things turn out this year it looks like we are headed back to the smaller hall in 2020.

    #564 20 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    You're not wrong.
    Look at where all the growth is in the hobby... in the NIB and modern games. The same crowds that fear their precious getting damaged. At the same time, many classics are getting restored... and again, people are fearful of having their precious damaged because looks are everything to them.
    With more people out there... people are less motivated to make the extra effort it takes to bring games together.
    The era of regional fix/flip vendors has shrunk dramatically due to limited inventory.
    Since the days of the firehouse... York has been about the EMs at the core.. and many vendors would bring their SS/DMD stuff they were trying to sell. I remember when all the sys11 beaters would be like weeds... or premier stinkers like Mario Andretti were always a given to be there in numbers. Because many were games brought by people to put in freeplay to sell. That market is basically gone now.. killed by low inventory, higher demand, and the ease of inspecting remotely in the era of photos and videos online.
    It all adds up...
    York has never been the same as allentown IMO. Allentown's location has always drawn the NY and north crowd better... and always drew more of the key vendors (IPB, PBR, etc). Now Allentown is 'the show' in the NE for game exchanges. You kinda hit a saturation point.. you're not going to get those long distance haulers multiple times a year. Canada, Georgia, Illinois, etc.. they'll pick one. That means the gap will continue to get larger and larger between the shows as critical mass kicks in.
    To travel to shows people want to see the latest and greatest games... they want the vendors selling the latest toys... they want it at a discount. That's a tough bill for a promoter to fill.. as they rely so much on the vendors like Cointaker, PinballStar, Marco, etc to be those cornerstones.
    With those cornerstones comes volume.. with volume (and the right timing) the buyers/seller will bubble up too. Right now that mass is centered around allentown.

    Sadly Allentown CAN'T GROW because of limited building space. Ivan and I had even talked about the possibility of a big tent outside but he had researched that and the cost put that beyond reach at this time. York could grow and is not limited by building size but location, lack of great food on site, and the York Area being a "cheaper crowd" makes the York Area not as good for holding a show.

    Ivan has no interest in a second show in Allentown from everything he has told me, Rich has no interest in moving York to Allentown in the Fall so we have what we have. So getting back to the "regular scheduled program" if you don't want to see York in the smaller hall next year do something to help grow the show. After next Saturday it will be too late!

    People need to stop comparing Allentown & York - they are very different shows and they each are special in their own way. York will never be Allentown and even if it could be Allentown that isn't what Rich wants. He wants the show to feel more like a group of friends getting together for a big ass pinball party. On the other hand Ivan likes more action, more noise, more vendors, more money coming in, etc. That has a special feel to it also but it just isn't the same as York.

    Regardless of how things play out both shows will always be fun. Ivan supports Rich by having space at York - Rich supports Ivan by having space at Allentown now we all need to support York anyway we can if we want the bigger hall again next year.

    #567 20 days ago
    Quoted from Brypten:

    Isn't this a buy/sell thread?? And I thought my 11 year old daughter was full of drama lol...

    If you want to buy/sell & trade at a show there has to be a show. There is no drama here - it is just a group of people talking about things. I just wanted everyone to know the show might be going back to the smaller hall next year if Rich doesn't get the support he needs from the pinball community. Next year will be the year for drama if that happens. Because with less space no everyone will get their freeplay machines into the show, dealers will not be able to get space, etc. Then watch the bitching that happens!

    #573 20 days ago
    Quoted from Chalkey:

    Allentown could "grow" if they better utilized the space on the left side of the venue. Some cool old stuff but mostly a lot of junk that could go back to an outdoor flea market type area.

    Bottom line is Allentown is a story for another day. Ivan does a good job of running that show and I am sure he will get it all figured out. For now lets all work on making York big enough to convince Rich to stay in the bigger hall.

    #578 20 days ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    Let’s not confuse Skip’s comments as facts. They are his opinions regarding Allentown. The show hasn’t turned anyone away due to space constants. As we all know, the flea market is shrinking for everyone. The flea market could find its way back outside and the space repurposed for the needs of the show. As for now, I see no need to adjust as we are NOT out of space and done growing.
    Allentown’s growth and success is the result of its supporting community. All else is mere speculation in my opinion. I look forward to see you all there.


    Well said!

    As I said in my post Allentown is limited by space and can only grow as far as space allows. Moving the flea market back outside in the future & expanding to that other side makes a lot of sense. But as you said it takes the support of the pinball community for these shows to work. When it is time for the Allentown Show I do all I can to help support the show. When it is time for York I do all I can to support York. Both you and Rich do a great job running your shows and most people can't even begin to imagine how much work that takes. My point here on this thread is simply York has space but doesn't have a lot of the other advantages Allentown has. In order for York to grow it takes the support of the pinball community.

    I never look at York & Allentown as a competition I look at them as two great shows each unique in their own ways. Hands down Allentown is the best show on the planet if your goal is to sell machines. And it will only get bigger & better every year with you and your crew always doing a great job. York will never be Allentown but it could be a nicer Fall show if it had just a little more support.

    Please understand I was not in any way trying to take anything away from Allentown I just hate the idea of York going back to that smaller hall and having to turn people away in the future. Rich is just trying to provide a nice place for people to get together and enjoy pinball and that is what shows should be about. Once back in the smaller hall there will be disappointed people because Rich will run out of space. Yet the "step up" to that bigger hall is a huge step that has not worked completely yet.

    Time will tell and it really shouldn't matter to me anyway because we are stepping away from the hobby shortly. I would just love to see Allentown, Pintastic, & York all turn out bigger and better for years to come. All of you guys do a hell of a lot of work to make these shows happen and I'll be forever thankful to all of you. Even once we just start enjoying our collection and step away from all the other aspects of this hobby I'll still be attending & supporting our local shows for as long as I can. The only change is I will not be moving thousand of pounds of machines into and out of shows in the future.

    #581 20 days ago
    Quoted from VectorGamer:

    Just some guy repeating himself all day...nothing to see here

    Don't worry I'll be gone soon! For now I am just trying to get a message out about something sad that is about to happen. If no one cares that is OK with me.

    #584 20 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Back to our regularly scheduled program...….
    Picked up a grail game today, Bally Flash Gordon and need a lower cabinet for it. Would consider any solid Bally SS cabinet.

    I know 100% for sure I don't have any of that later style cabinet around but I might be able to dig out an early style SS Bally cabinet for you before the show. If you don't find something else hit me up around Tuesday and I'll see what I can come up with for you. I know the neck between the body & head are different but beyond that I don't know what else they changed. If you know Jim from JT Amusements check in with him to see if he knows what else might be different between the two. He has had a fair amount of experience cobbling cabinets together in the past for games in his collection.

    #586 20 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Ironically I just messaged Jim to flip him some work on an older EM in my area I can't do.
    Any solid Bally SS cabinet is fine. I'll swap the head mounting frame. The playfield support rails are lower due to the increased height of the upper PF and of course I'd need to cut holes for the speakers. Let me know Skip.

    Be sure to remind me on Tuesday or send me a PM. At this point I have about 30 people I am bringing stuff for so I plan to just work from my PM's when loading the truck & trailers. If you find something closer to what you need great. If not I should have this covered for you.

    #588 20 days ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    I need a Bally/Williams translite glass, like for a Shadow or Demolition Man.

    I don't think I can help with that but send me the size and I'll measure what I have around.

    #591 20 days ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    For those not aware, I organize a smaller show in upstate NY (Saratoga Pinball & Arcade Show in August). It's been averaging close to 40 games in freeplay each year, but there is enough space and electric for 55 games with the current layout, plus another 20 games if I use drops from the ceiling. I haven't maxed it out yet.

    Like Allentown and York, I am utterly dependent on community support for freeplay games. Without that support, there basically wouldn't be any games, and without games, there wouldn't be a point to do the show. If one of the regulars suddenly can't make it, that might be 1-3 games that don't show up, and in a smaller show like this, that's a pretty big hit to take.
    There's also a flea market, but this year it was pretty sparse, unfortunately--interference with vacation plans was part of it, but also most people just don't seem to have a whole lot to sell. To help with that, I basically have a combination of only a few larger spaces and a lot of cheap smaller table-sized spaces for people who might only have a small pile of stuff to sell. I'm also fine with parking lot deals--if it helps get more people to the show, I'm all for it.
    One thing folks might not have realized was that this show is also a charity event, and all the proceeds are donated back to the local YMCA, which currently houses the show. So, I actually don't make anything from organizing the show unless I have my own games, projects, and/or parts to sell.
    So, good attendance numbers and good press should help keep the YMCA interested in housing the event, but community support is critical to actually keep it going. If I had to go somewhere else, a show this small wouldn't be financially viable due to the high cost of commercial rental spaces and low number of participants.
    The more people who participate, the more games there are, and the better the show it will be. I imagine it's basically the same idea for other shows.
    So, if you want shows to continue and thrive, do what you can to support them by participating in some way

    I didn't want to forget about you but I also didn't want to "derail" this thread any further than I have already. Hopefully by next year I'll have some of my other BS behind me and be able to run up with a couple machines to add to the show.

    Any show big or small is important to the hobby. So everyone do all you can to support your local shows & beyond if possible. Shows only work with support from the pinball community!

    #595 20 days ago
    Quoted from Liftserv:

    This might be a dumb idea
    But how about doing a 50/50 drawing to help with the building rental for now. I know I would drop 20-30 dollars for this, and when the show sells out it can go to charity.
    And yes I am bringing a game.

    You might what to run the by Rich via PM. I doubt he would have time to put something like that together for this year but if he did do something like that I would be happy to toss in a $20 also. Also if it became an annual thing it would be great for either a local charity or for one of the pinball charities.

    Keep the ideas coming! We need to keep the show in that bigger hall!

    Quoted from tomdrum:

    I attended Allentown and York the last 3 years. Was at these shows multiple times before taking a 5 year break from shows. Problem for me and others I know for bringing a game is distance and show hours. I'm 3+ hours from Allentown and 2.5 hours from York (3.5 hours in Friday PM Harrisburg traffic). So with a travel time of 6-7 hours a day bringing a game and having to leave it on the floor till show closing makes it a really long day. If I was an hour away it would be different.

    I fully understand where people are coming from as far as it being hard to bring games. But on the other hand when a guy 30 minutes from the show uses a thread for the show to advertise machines he has for sale but isn't bringing to the show that just isn't right!

    #598 20 days ago
    Quoted from tomdrum:

    Agreed. If I was that close I'd bring a game every show. I rather pay more $$ at the gate to support the show and keep the larger hall. Allentown is $20. I've seen local CL ads for York advertising "play pinball all day for $15" which is great to bring more people in. How about charging a higher admission to get in a hour early? Early bird pricing? Pre pay entrance? Vendors might hate that since they're setting up but I'd pay double to avoid the line at Allentown last spring. Might even have gotten that EBD.

    People have tried to talk Rich into raising the price to get into the show but he was afraid that would exclude a lot of locals. The people in the York area are know for being on the "cheap side" so increasing cost might have a negative impact. As far as early entry - I think that would be tough because shows need all the time they have just to have everything get set up on time to open. It is already 3 long days for vendors so I doubt anyone wants to add more hours.

    I need to stop replying to post here & get some work done. As far as the Craig's List post I did those with Rich's OK just trying to get a few more people to the show. As I have said several times above I do all I can to help our local shows and there are also a good many others that do the same. Sadly there are just as many that feel like they are owed something when they attend shows?

    #609 19 days ago

    Glad to see things getting back to posting about buying & selling here. The point of ALL my post yesterday was just to let people know if they want to keep the show in the bigger hall step up in any way they can. The difference between moving back to the smaller hall and staying in the big hall might be as small as 3 or 4 flea market spaces. It will not take a lot to keep things in the big hall so if everyone does just a little that all will help!

    As far as stuff headed to the show my load keeps changing by the day. Too long of a story to really explain here (even though I like to talk) but I'll be posting a finalize list as I load the trailer. I will have some decent backglasses along and some EM back doors as well as EM & early SS side rails & glass slides. Beyond that I am not 100% sure yet.

    For those of you keeping things positive --- THANK YOU --- and for the couple guys that need to be negative do the rest of us a favor and just stay home.

    #628 18 days ago
    Quoted from rmarket:

    Thanks to everyone that has registered games in the past few days! Just as a reminder, we do have a drawing at the end of the of the show on Saturday for everyone that brought a game for both days of the show and still has the game on the floor and running at 4 on Saturday. We draw five names and each person wins $100 cash. Each game counts as an entry but you can only win once.
    There are still a couple of Vendor and flea market spots left.


    Glad to hear you are doing a little better with getting that hall filled up. I hated all the "drama" I caused a couple days ago but I think sometimes people just need a little "kick in the ass" to get them moving. When I compare York to Allentown Allentown has every advantage in the world over York except for space (and the "homey" feeling York has) and I think most people would agree. So my goal is to use that "strength" York has to help York grow into all it could be.

    I know Ivan can make adjustments to make more room "short term" but there are only some many square feet under roof at Allentown and as the hobby continues to grow at some point Allentown could outgrow the space they have. (Maybe not in my lifetime but down the road after may of us have passed the torch to the next generation). That would never been an issue at York so if enough people support the York Show it could be something totally amazing down the road.

    My only fear with the growth of the York Show is I never want to see it loose the "feel" it has - there is just something very special about York that I have never experienced at any other show and most people who have been to York seem to agree about that. So the "next trick" is to grow the show without losing that special fell York has always had.

    As I have said many times in the past you, Ivan, Gabe, and Adam (with his small show in NY) have all done a great job over the years. And with the pinball communities support all these shows will only get better in the future. This isn't a contest between shows this is just a bunch of guys getting together and enjoying a hobby. I think sometimes that get forgotten with the competitive nature we all have.

    #651 17 days ago

    I "mess up big time" this morning while working through the stuff I am suppose to bring to the show for people. Somehow I deleted all my emails instead of just purging the one I had checked to purge. So my only record of what I was suppose to bring for like 20 to 25 people is now gone. If you happen to be one of those people and read this please contact me again to remind me what I was suppose to bring for you. So far I have 14 items on my list but I know there are several missing.

    SORRY - Skip

    #656 16 days ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    You sure you don’t have a “deleted” folder or something? Typically when things get deleted they don’t really delete. Hope you can get them back!

    Sadly the Pinside mail system doesn't seem to save anything anywhere and with me getting over 100 emails a day about stuff I purge my regular email inbox, sent, and deleted several times a day just keeping things cleaned up a little. Everything I do is done through either the PM system on Pinside or through emails - I never have written copies, notes, or anything else. Slowly people have been contacting me and I think I have about 90% taken care of right now. Maybe 3 or 4 missed so not too bad after all. But I would still like to get 100% of everyone if possible.

    #659 16 days ago

    The biggest thing I seem to have forgotten about is the stacks of money I promised people. What I don't understand is some of the guys even want it in large bills. If someone was giving me a pile of money I would be happy with dollars bills as long as they were not passing it out based on size or weight.

    Pete - Don't worry I already had the STERN Star Gazer loaded in the trailer for you.

    #666 16 days ago
    Quoted from cyroute:

    butch2099 Gerry is on a hunting trip will not be making it this year...


    You beat me to it! I am going to miss your sidekick!

    #687 16 days ago
    Quoted from PinballSTAR:

    Email Robin and ask for help - he may be able to recover for you and surely would gladly do it...

    I think I finally got everything figured out. I knew I had several people I was forgetting now the worst case might be one or two people and if necessary I can always just ship those parts to them. I still can't believe it happened but such is life!

    #688 15 days ago

    I have three very nice populated playfields that are not spoken for yet. I will not bring these to the show unless someone tells me they want them because they are to big, heavy & fragile to move around any more than necessary. All are fully populated and in nice overall condition as far as I know.

    Judge Dredd populated playfield $750

    Last Action Hero populated playfield $750

    Cue Ball Wizard populated playfield $450

    If you are into working on this era machine these all have tons of expense & hard to find parts on them. Or someone can get a machine the hard way by starting with the populated playfield and building the rest of the machine around that. I would take $1500 for all 3 sold together and that is giving them away but I really would like to see them find a new home.

    #732 14 days ago

    Anyone that has any boxes of "junk" around I am interested in buying any parts I can find CHEAP. Not looking for anything specific just parts that can be salvaged. If you have a pile of boxes of stuff that just keep getting moved from one place to another you are sick of looking at but don't want to just toss it into the trash bring it along and come see me. I don't care how "rough" the stuff is as long as their are salvageable parts on it. My motto is "I buy just about anything" and if you have seen some of the junk I have actually paid money for you would surely agree.

    I'll also consider parts machines, populated playfields, or anything else from pinball machines as long as it is reasonably priced. I sell parts fairly cheap trying to help people save machines so I can't afford to pay top dollar for machines or parts I but. My goal is to save stuff from the landfill and help people fix up machines as cheaply as possible at the same time.

    Not a big money maker for me but since I semi retired I enjoy doing it! PM me if you have questions. If you don't already know me you can find my by looking for the big loud guy in the flea market area. I talk loud because of a partial hearing loss and I am 6'6" tall and over 300 pounds so I don't hide well. If that doesn't help just ask a couple of the vendors and one of them should be able to send you in my direction.

    THANKS! Skip

    #737 14 days ago

    Anyone bringing a decent original Space Shuttle to the show for Freeplay Area? If so contact me via PM

    #772 13 days ago
    Quoted from locksmith:

    Will the pinball lifter with the big scissor jack be there for sale?Bought one last year and a friend wants one but cant make the show.A pinsider Joe makes them but I don't know how to contact him.

    Joe's contact is: cyroute

    I didn't ask if he was bringing any this year

    #936 11 days ago

    Just to address some of the comments about the York Show, or even shows in general, I think the first thing that is often forgotten is a show is only as good as what people attending the show make it. The promoter (in the case of the York Show Rich & his family) provides a venue & the advertising - everything else is pretty much up to the people attending the show. Machines that come to a show and the condition and prices of those machines are up to the people that bring machines. Vendors can only bring what they have for sale, the number of vendors depends on how many people are willing to do all the work it takes to set up, and so on. So the more effort everyone puts into a show the better the results.

    As far as selection of machines at York. The York Show has always been known as a "earlier machines type show" and that is one of the many things most people seem to like about York. There are always a ton of woodrails, bingo's, EM's and other earlier machines at York. There are also a decent amount of SS, DMD and "modern era" machines but the strength at York is the early stuff you don't normally see a lot of at other show.

    As far as "lack of great deals" or "prices seemed high" or "not much for sale in the flea market area" or "no outside flea market people" etc. What people don't seem to realize is the supply of cheaper machines, deals on machines, and large group purchases has pretty much completely dried up. There just isn't much out their being sold "cheap" these days. Vendors who bring stuff to a show need to make a few dollars just to cover their overhead. We don't have "hidden sources" for this stuff we are chasing it just like everyone else. Ten years ago when I got into the hobby there were weeks where I could buy 10 or 12 machines at reasonable prices these days I am lucky to get a call a month. If we can't "buy cheap" we can't sell cheap. The hobby is changing demand is way up supply is down and prices are going up. No one likes that other than the guys with huge collections that just see their collections going up in value. But it is just the way it is these days.

    As far as "parking lot deals" - they are not a bad thing and in fact about 70% of what I brought to the show was actually presold. When parking lot deals become an issue is when people drive to a show just to exchange stuff in the parking lot and do nothing to support the show. If you made a few deals but still brought a machine for freeplay or paid to attend the show that is great. What isn't good is the guys that just show up in the parking lot & exchange stuff for money and go home without supporting the show. Thankfully it is only a handful of people but why not support the show while you are their?

    York is like a big pinball party at someones house. It isn't a huge commercial show it is just a great place to hang out with old friends & meet a few new ones. I hope the "feel" never changes. There are plenty of "bigger & maybe even better shows" but I have never experienced another show with the "feel" of the York Show. No one can seem to explain it but it is just something very unique and refreshing and most people who attend will say the same thing.

    I closing I just want to thank Rich, his family & crew for doing a great job again this year and hopefully the show was successful enough that we can stay in the bigger hall in the future. I am sure Rich will let everyone know where we will see the show next year shortly after the dust settles from this years show. THANKS AGAIN to everyone who supported the show this year!

    #1006 10 days ago

    One thing I was very happy to see yesterday is people hung in their later. Normally people start packing up crazy early on Saturday but most people waited until way after 4 PM before they started packing. And even at 5 PM there were still plenty of machines still in freeplay and most of the vendors in the flea market area were just starting to pack.

    A suggestion I have that would help the show and also might be something a lot of you guys have not thought about is for 5 or 10 people who are "pinball friends" to consider renting a flea market space and using it as a place to hang out as well as sell a few parts or machines. Bring a couple tables & 3 or 4 chairs - take turns watching the space - and if each of you has a hand full of stuff sitting around you don't want and sell some of it that helps the show as well as helping you clear out unwanted (or unneeded stuff). The West Virginia guys have been doing it for years if a few more groups of people would do stuff like that we could get the hall filled up for sure. Plus there would be more stuff for sale at the show.

    If you looked around over the weekend think about how little it would actually take to max that hall out. Imagine how nice 25 or 30 more machines would have made freeplay or how 10 or 12 more flea market spaces would have made such a difference back in that flea market area. Filling that hall wouldn't take a lot just a handful of people stepping up and doing a little more. Once the hall is full for the first time I think it would stay full in the future it is just a matter of getting it filled up for that first time that seems to be a hurdle that has not happened. I don't know for sure & I didn't think to ask Rich but it did look a little more full than last year. Time will tell but I think enough people stepped up to keep the show in the bigger hall and I am hoping that is the case.

    #1028 9 days ago
    Quoted from freddy:

    Have a non for sale and a for sale section
    Green tag the for sale games with owners name and #
    red tag non for sale free play with code # info for show staff informational purposes staff will have list with owners info. No charging deposit on free play non for sale games.

    Bottom line is regardless of what shows do some machines will be removed early, some machines will have "crazy" prices on them, etc. Again it isn't really up to the promoter to try and fix all of these issues it is the pinball community that controls all of this stuff. The promoters job is to provide a safe & clean venue that is well advertised. Pretty much everything else is up to the pinball community.

    As far as "overpriced machines" it is pretty simple - if you don't like the price make an offer or walk away. As far as machines leaving early if more people brought machines this wouldn't be an issue. One thought might be two different set up areas - one where machines CAN NOT BE REMOVED FOR ANY REASON and the other area where machines can be removed early by paying a fee for early removal. Put the "early removal area" near the door so it disrupts things as little as possible.

    Another issue is broken machines - this happens but a big tag taped on the playfield glass would at least let people know why a machine was turned off. Stuff breaks and even in a perfect world everything will not be perfect.

    Rich & the crew did a great job as always! Thanks to everyone who stepped up and brought machines for freeplay or rented a vendor space. The show keeps growing but still has that "special feel" so I think all is going well with York. Now it is time to start getting ready for Allentown next Spring. Sadly I will not be able to attend but I already know it will be another great show. I am going to miss that farmers market food!

    #1038 9 days ago
    Quoted from Butch2099:

    I would love to see an auction. That might bring people in who want to sell games and create some Buzz. Pintastic did it a couple of years ago and I thought it was a success

    I don't know if that would work at York because of all the rules at the fairground. I was talking to Rich about the 50/50 idea for charity yesterday and he said they couldn't do anything like that due to the fairgrounds rules. I know York Fairgrounds has some of the toughest restrictions of any rental place you will ever try to work with from past experiences renting their. But do to the shear size and layout of the place and selection of building sizes it is a great place to hold an event. That is why there is always a waiting list for some buildings on certain weekends. Yesterday there were 3 different events going on in three different areas of the fairground and I'll be 95% of the people who came to the show didn't even notice.

    Each show has different "draws" and features. Rich likes the York Show to be a "family of guys & girls getting together for a big pinball party". Allentown is known as a great place to buy & sell and for the farmer market food, Pintastic has a ton of "special stuff" going on. Etc. etc. There is no need for a show to try and be like another show - each can be unique and still be great in their own way.

    One thing that might work is if one of the Arcade Auction Companies had an auction at York the same weekend as the show but in a different building. If any of you guys happen to know anyone from those companies that might be something good for everyone? People coming to the show might attend the auction and people coming to the auction might attend to show? I know the fairgrounds has auctions all the time but I have never seen one as part of a show.

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