My name is SKIP not CHIP but you seem to be the one that has a "CHIP" on your shoulder. Rich lost a lot of money on the shirts last year trying to make people happy with an alternative shirt made that didn't sell thanks to a few people bashing the original shirt design. As Rich said the original "offensive to a few" shirt was designed by a woman with school age children. Maybe it wasn't for everyone but most people seemed to love it. My wife even wanted one but they were sold out before I could get one for her.

Art is art - it has nothing to do with sexism it was just something similar to the art of the day when these great classic old machines were being made. Maybe it is time to go back to all the old churches painted by the masters of their day and put tops on all the topless women in their paintings? People are just way too uptight these days!

My pop a card should be done by this weekend, I am most likely bringing that for the free play area. I also have the following for sale if there is any interest. Pictures are available if interested

1) Pinbot - $2200. Great shape, some LED's. Fast and Fun, can you beat the sun??
2) F-14 Tomcat - $1900. Great shape, mostly LED's. Early Production model with the clear flasher domes in back and the two flashers by Tomcat.
3) Riverboat Gambler - $1900. Good example of this game, mostly led's. Buttons on lockdown work properly. Fun Gambling game.
4) The Lost World Jurassic Park - $2400. Beautiful condition original game. Has one wear spot in the orange from the magnet.
5) Raven - $850. Has alternate translite, players condition game. Helicopter and ramp work perfectly. Fun shooters game
6) Mario Andretti - $1400. Good players condition game, unique fast game. Where else can you get a DMD game for under $1500??

For the record, my fiance is pissed that she did not get one of these shirts. I've asked Rich numerous times to make another batch. This was the best shirt design by far.

Here is the design from 2018:

whiterose (resized).jpeg

I'd love a chance at last years shirt if you're re running some Rich! She did a fantastic job!

I'm pretty sure it was posted that you could special order them through the supplier last year because there was such a large demand for them.

As prices rise and rise, definitely seeing less people willing to bring games for freeplay at shows.

it's probably best if you don't keep dredging up stuff like this and focus on your strong points. It sounds like it will be a great show.
Dudes opining on sexism and whatnot on here is a great way to derail an otherwise good thread.
sincerely,
a woman that has children?

That's a fucking awesome tshirt design. And my wife agrees. Dont know why anyone would be offended by that design, Male or female. It depicts a sexy female...wtf is wrong with that.

It isn't really less people bringing machines to the York Show - each year there are more machines at the show then the previous year and this year will likely end up the same way in the end. The issue at York is the hall is like 30% bigger so you need almost double the freeplay machines to fill up the extra space.

When renting a hall like at the York Show the electric is dropped from the ceiling. Each "drop" cost a lot of money so if Rich gets 4 extra lines dropped it could cost around $400 extra just for that. (Last I heard was about 5 years ago and each cord dropped was $100 back then so it might even be more now). Unless you have been a promoter or involved with something like these shows you don't realize all the cost involved in renting a hall.

The "devil is in the details" and most people don't care about that. Bottom line is in less than 3 weeks Rich will have to reserve a hall for next year and depending on how things turn out this year it looks like we are headed back to the smaller hall in 2020.

ah OK well it's at least good to hear people are still bringing out there machines and not keeping them at home. We had a show in Ottawa recently and it definitely felt like there was a drop in the home collectors pulling machines out, but hopefully that was just an anomaly.
Big hall or smaller hall, either way I really hope to make it there next year.

I have faithfully attended the York Show for as long as I can remember - probably the last 15-20 years or how ever long it has been open. Many of those years I have either brought a free play game or rented either indoor or outdoor flea market space or rented a vendor booth. I have always enjoyed the show. I don't care one way or another about the show shirt because I am getting a little too old for t-shirts with writing on them, if you know what I mean. I used to buy them years ago when I was a younger guy.

However, two observations I do have that might impact on the show's future success:

The show used to be Friday night set up and show days Saturday and Sunday. I personally liked that better and have talked with a number of people who say they can't go Friday because they can't get off work. I know Sunday was a dead day, but so is Saturday to a certain extent, under the new schedule. Also, I think families are more likely to attend on a Sat/Sun than on a Fri/Sat, which might mean more gate admission for promoters and higher sales for vendors. I always get better prices from "homeowners" than Pinsiders, just because of the nature of the hobby.

Also, many years in the past I set up at York with reasonably priced games but got ridiculously priced low ball offers for shopped, really nice cosmetic condition games. Often, this was from other pinball hobbyists who might be looking to buy and flip. Also, this was in past years before the more recent craze in pinball prices, but still, York is still not known as a place to sell the high end stuff for whatever reason. That is not the case in Allentown where you can sell a $5000 game just as easily as a $1000 game.

I like to get a great deal as much as anyone else and will often low ball a seller, but I also try to be realistic about what a game is worth. Also, I try to support show sellers as much as possible because I want to see them back next year. People who have not set up themselves have no idea of the work involved in getting games ready, loading a truck and/or trailer, taking off work, making the drive to York, setting up, babysitting the booth all day for both days, etc etc. Add in food, gas and maybe motel costs and it takes plenty of both time and money! When I don't sell enough games to "make it worth my while" (whatever that means to each of us) and have to drag a bunch of stuff back home with me, I don't go back the following year as a vendor. Or I take a lot less games and leave the high end stuff at home. I think that also largely contributes to the pre-sale phenomenon where people only want to bring what is pre-sold.

Sellers who set up at shows are not the travelling museum of pinball machines! They need to sell some games for a reasonable amount to cover expenses and provide some cash for additional game purchases. They don't want just "lookers"! People who make very low ball offers are like the people who price their purchases at the local mom and pop store but then buy it off of Amazon because they can save $50. And then are surprised and disappointed when the mom and pop store closes up a year or two later. If vendors sell out each year of the show, they will be back next year with even more games. That's just the nature of things. If they don't sell, they will bring fewer games or might not come back at all.

So, if you are bummed that the show is not as big as you'd hoped, consider getting out there and supporting the vendors that did show up. Spend a few bucks and everyone makes out!

You're not wrong.

Look at where all the growth is in the hobby... in the NIB and modern games. The same crowds that fear their precious getting damaged. At the same time, many classics are getting restored... and again, people are fearful of having their precious damaged because looks are everything to them.

With more people out there... people are less motivated to make the extra effort it takes to bring games together.

The era of regional fix/flip vendors has shrunk dramatically due to limited inventory.

Since the days of the firehouse... York has been about the EMs at the core.. and many vendors would bring their SS/DMD stuff they were trying to sell. I remember when all the sys11 beaters would be like weeds... or premier stinkers like Mario Andretti were always a given to be there in numbers. Because many were games brought by people to put in freeplay to sell. That market is basically gone now.. killed by low inventory, higher demand, and the ease of inspecting remotely in the era of photos and videos online.

It all adds up...

York has never been the same as allentown IMO. Allentown's location has always drawn the NY and north crowd better... and always drew more of the key vendors (IPB, PBR, etc). Now Allentown is 'the show' in the NE for game exchanges. You kinda hit a saturation point.. you're not going to get those long distance haulers multiple times a year. Canada, Georgia, Illinois, etc.. they'll pick one. That means the gap will continue to get larger and larger between the shows as critical mass kicks in.

To travel to shows people want to see the latest and greatest games... they want the vendors selling the latest toys... they want it at a discount. That's a tough bill for a promoter to fill.. as they rely so much on the vendors like Cointaker, PinballStar, Marco, etc to be those cornerstones.

With those cornerstones comes volume.. with volume (and the right timing) the buyers/seller will bubble up too. Right now that mass is centered around allentown.

Sadly Allentown CAN'T GROW because of limited building space. Ivan and I had even talked about the possibility of a big tent outside but he had researched that and the cost put that beyond reach at this time. York could grow and is not limited by building size but location, lack of great food on site, and the York Area being a "cheaper crowd" makes the York Area not as good for holding a show.

Ivan has no interest in a second show in Allentown from everything he has told me, Rich has no interest in moving York to Allentown in the Fall so we have what we have. So getting back to the "regular scheduled program" if you don't want to see York in the smaller hall next year do something to help grow the show. After next Saturday it will be too late!

People need to stop comparing Allentown & York - they are very different shows and they each are special in their own way. York will never be Allentown and even if it could be Allentown that isn't what Rich wants. He wants the show to feel more like a group of friends getting together for a big ass pinball party. On the other hand Ivan likes more action, more noise, more vendors, more money coming in, etc. That has a special feel to it also but it just isn't the same as York.

Regardless of how things play out both shows will always be fun. Ivan supports Rich by having space at York - Rich supports Ivan by having space at Allentown now we all need to support York anyway we can if we want the bigger hall again next year.

I'm out of popcorn...

Isn't this a buy/sell thread?? And I thought my 11 year old daughter was full of drama lol...

If you want to buy/sell & trade at a show there has to be a show. There is no drama here - it is just a group of people talking about things. I just wanted everyone to know the show might be going back to the smaller hall next year if Rich doesn't get the support he needs from the pinball community. Next year will be the year for drama if that happens. Because with less space no everyone will get their freeplay machines into the show, dealers will not be able to get space, etc. Then watch the bitching that happens!

I was going to post I have seen the same thing in auto circles- You would have 1 or 2 major car shows to attend a year and it was no problem. Now everyone and their brother is having an event and it pulls away crowds that at one time would only go to the 1 or 2 major shows regardless of location. There is only so many shows you can attend due to time and money. York will be the forth show I attend this year and even then only due to a pin swap. Regardless of the reason, two more ticket sales for the show! I look forward to an EM heavy show.

Here's some pix of my Count-Down back glass. As you can see, very little flaking, which is rare for this glass. $400 delivered to the show on Friday only.

IMG_1476 (resized).jpg

IMG_1477 (resized).jpg

Diner for sale, I'm about a hour away from York

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/85660

I'm not bringing any games, nor selling. I'm only there for one reason only. Brickers Fries. Yeah, and there's a 1 in 10 chance there will be a long black hair in it. Actually..I'll probably bring Demo Man, Baby Pac and maybe Mr & Mrs Pacman (as they are joined in holy matrimony before the eyes of the lord, though I don't know if Baby was conceived in wedlock or not...)

Allentown could "grow" if they better utilized the space on the left side of the venue. Some cool old stuff but mostly a lot of junk that could go back to an outdoor flea market type area.

Bottom line is Allentown is a story for another day. Ivan does a good job of running that show and I am sure he will get it all figured out. For now lets all work on making York big enough to convince Rich to stay in the bigger hall.

Let’s not confuse Skip’s comments as facts. They are his opinions regarding Allentown. The show hasn’t turned anyone away due to space constants. As we all know, the flea market is shrinking for everyone. The flea market could find its way back outside and the space repurposed for the needs of the show. As for now, I see no need to adjust as we are NOT out of space and done growing.

Allentown’s growth and success is the result of its supporting community. All else is mere speculation in my opinion. I look forward to see you all there.

Respectfully,
Ivan

Whole lot of posts had me excited... Then it's just a bunch of whatever that was today.

I'm still working on getting my prototype Bally Freedom working to put in Freeplay... It might not make it. Not sure yet. If it doesn't it has a good home it's going to where it will eventually be able to be played by the general public.

I also have a Mr. & Mrs. Pacman I can bring. New LED displays, new MPU, new SDB, LED's on playfield, boards all professionally gone through. Cap kit for the S&T board included but not installed (or needed yet) translucent blue flippers & yellow superbands on all 3 flippers. "Custom topper" can be included if desired. $1200 cash or trade.

20190411_194642 (resized).jpg

20190411_194653 (resized).jpg

20190411_194625 (resized).jpg

20181226_185513 (resized).jpg

Actually, George Costanza, and I call him that because he is truly acting like his avatar, did this thread & show a favor by kick starting more action. I definitely don't agree with his actions or comments though. Any pub is good pub.
Rich, I don't know you personally but I sure do appreciate you running this show & doing the best you possibly can. As you know in this world, it's impossible to please everyone. Rock on & continue the show. Deflect the negatives.

My kids/guests have aged out of this type of thing being in the gameroom. I can bring this vending machine if there is interest.

$85 or make an offer. Has a bit of animation - the hen pecks at the squirrel who hides and creepy kid's face appears, lol. See video. Comes with extra refillable eggs. Still have some of the smaller "prize toys". I have both keys. Takes quarters.

D43FB911-9C39-4D11-9804-0C6C2F45B5ED (resized).jpeg0E6B3DCF-AF86-4175-A8DE-519217F740C5 (resized).jpeg
995384DD-22D9-4087-9D60-D3DD67A97032 (resized).jpeg
561448C7-8FF9-495D-B79D-EE336DBD1942 (resized).jpeg14D05352-C79B-4850-AE35-45ECBDCFA48C (resized).jpeg54BDF28B-7634-47C9-BE95-2E5C5FB769E5 (resized).jpeg

Ivan,

Well said!

As I said in my post Allentown is limited by space and can only grow as far as space allows. Moving the flea market back outside in the future & expanding to that other side makes a lot of sense. But as you said it takes the support of the pinball community for these shows to work. When it is time for the Allentown Show I do all I can to help support the show. When it is time for York I do all I can to support York. Both you and Rich do a great job running your shows and most people can't even begin to imagine how much work that takes. My point here on this thread is simply York has space but doesn't have a lot of the other advantages Allentown has. In order for York to grow it takes the support of the pinball community.

I never look at York & Allentown as a competition I look at them as two great shows each unique in their own ways. Hands down Allentown is the best show on the planet if your goal is to sell machines. And it will only get bigger & better every year with you and your crew always doing a great job. York will never be Allentown but it could be a nicer Fall show if it had just a little more support.

Please understand I was not in any way trying to take anything away from Allentown I just hate the idea of York going back to that smaller hall and having to turn people away in the future. Rich is just trying to provide a nice place for people to get together and enjoy pinball and that is what shows should be about. Once back in the smaller hall there will be disappointed people because Rich will run out of space. Yet the "step up" to that bigger hall is a huge step that has not worked completely yet.

Time will tell and it really shouldn't matter to me anyway because we are stepping away from the hobby shortly. I would just love to see Allentown, Pintastic, & York all turn out bigger and better for years to come. All of you guys do a hell of a lot of work to make these shows happen and I'll be forever thankful to all of you. Even once we just start enjoying our collection and step away from all the other aspects of this hobby I'll still be attending & supporting our local shows for as long as I can. The only change is I will not be moving thousand of pounds of machines into and out of shows in the future.

Just some guy repeating himself all day...nothing to see here

Don't worry I'll be gone soon! For now I am just trying to get a message out about something sad that is about to happen. If no one cares that is OK with me.

There was a SBM on Facebook for $250. Up your way.

I know 100% for sure I don't have any of that later style cabinet around but I might be able to dig out an early style SS Bally cabinet for you before the show. If you don't find something else hit me up around Tuesday and I'll see what I can come up with for you. I know the neck between the body & head are different but beyond that I don't know what else they changed. If you know Jim from JT Amusements check in with him to see if he knows what else might be different between the two. He has had a fair amount of experience cobbling cabinets together in the past for games in his collection.

Be sure to remind me on Tuesday or send me a PM. At this point I have about 30 people I am bringing stuff for so I plan to just work from my PM's when loading the truck & trailers. If you find something closer to what you need great. If not I should have this covered for you.

I need a Bally/Williams translite glass, like for a Shadow or Demolition Man.

I don't think I can help with that but send me the size and I'll measure what I have around.

For those not aware, I organize a smaller show in upstate NY (Saratoga Pinball & Arcade Show in August). It's been averaging close to 40 games in freeplay each year, but there is enough space and electric for 55 games with the current layout, plus another 20 games if I use drops from the ceiling. I haven't maxed it out yet.

Like Allentown and York, I am utterly dependent on community support for freeplay games. Without that support, there basically wouldn't be any games, and without games, there wouldn't be a point to do the show. If one of the regulars suddenly can't make it, that might be 1-3 games that don't show up, and in a smaller show like this, that's a pretty big hit to take.

There's also an indoor flea market, but this year it was pretty sparse, unfortunately--interference with vacation plans was part of it, but also most people just don't seem to have a whole lot to sell. To help with that, I basically have a combination of only a few larger spaces and a lot of cheap smaller table-sized spaces for people who might only have a small pile of stuff to sell. I'm also fine with parking lot deals--if it helps get more people to the show, I'm all for it.

One thing folks might not have realized was that this show is also a charity event, and all the proceeds are donated back to the local YMCA, which currently houses the show. So, I actually don't make anything from organizing the show unless I have my own games, projects, and/or parts to sell.

So, good attendance numbers and good press should help keep the YMCA interested in housing the event, but community support is critical to actually keep it going. If I had to go somewhere else, a show this small wouldn't be financially viable due to the high cost of commercial rental spaces and low number of participants. More games tend to bring in more people.

The more people who participate, the more games there are, and the better the show it will be. I imagine it's basically the same idea for other shows.

So, if you want shows to continue and thrive, do what you can to support them by participating in some way

I’m coming to York!
Got some things to sell if anyone’s interested:
Data East Secret Service head & Topper
Data East Secret Service semi-populated playfield
Various Arcade Coin Doors

Looking for Orbitor 1 parts as always!

I didn't want to forget about you but I also didn't want to "derail" this thread any further than I have already. Hopefully by next year I'll have some of my other BS behind me and be able to run up with a couple machines to add to the show.

Any show big or small is important to the hobby. So everyone do all you can to support your local shows & beyond if possible. Shows only work with support from the pinball community!

I'm bringing two games to support the show this year, I'll bring a third if I can get it done in time.

I'm excited to say I'll be bringing a fully restored EM Mata Hari that I should have completed by Monday!!!...

along with a nice playing GTB Funland. I'm also supporting by being a flea market participant this year. Hopefully I can scrounge up some high-quality pinball crapola to sell (backglasses, old playfields, neon parts, etc.).

As Skip says, everyone needs to step up and bring an extra game if possible, or if you've never brought a game, go ahead and do so... I don't want to go back to the smaller hall!

This might be a dumb idea
But how about doing a 50/50 drawing to help with the building rental for now. I know I would drop 20-30 dollars for this, and when the show sells out it can go to charity.
And yes I am bringing a game.

You might what to run the by Rich via PM. I doubt he would have time to put something like that together for this year but if he did do something like that I would be happy to toss in a $20 also. Also if it became an annual thing it would be great for either a local charity or for one of the pinball charities.

Keep the ideas coming! We need to keep the show in that bigger hall!

I fully understand where people are coming from as far as it being hard to bring games. But on the other hand when a guy 30 minutes from the show uses a thread for the show to advertise machines he has for sale but isn't bringing to the show that just isn't right!

People have tried to talk Rich into raising the price to get into the show but he was afraid that would exclude a lot of locals. The people in the York area are know for being on the "cheap side" so increasing cost might have a negative impact. As far as early entry - I think that would be tough because shows need all the time they have just to have everything get set up on time to open. It is already 3 long days for vendors so I doubt anyone wants to add more hours.

I need to stop replying to post here & get some work done. As far as the Craig's List post I did those with Rich's OK just trying to get a few more people to the show. As I have said several times above I do all I can to help our local shows and there are also a good many others that do the same. Sadly there are just as many that feel like they are owed something when they attend shows?

LMAO, I’ve never been to either show but it’s hilarious to me that you are somehow implying that Allentown is classier than York. I would guess you consider Pittsburgh a big city? LMFAO

These days, there are a lot of families in attendance at shows, and raising prices could deter them from coming. With a lower price, a pinball show can be seen as an inexpensive afternoon of entertainment for a small family. Raising it too much could deter families and groups; the total cost for 3-5 people can add up.