(Topic ID: 241509)

Whirlwind Vs Jurassic Park... Pinball Plagiarism?


By sataneatscheese

55 days ago



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  • 55 posts
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  • Latest reply 54 days ago by Billy16
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There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 55 days ago

I have a Jurassic Park and love it. I saw an ad for a Whirlwind and couldn't help but notice... some striking similarities. It looks to me that Data East (Jurassic Park) Completely ripped off the playfield, and just replaced the top set of pops with the ball eating dinosaur. The lower pops and the scoop look identical, and the placement of the 3rd flipper and the top loop are the same. The ramps and kickback are in the same place. How did this not result in a lawsuit 25 years ago?

In any case, I don't think I've played Whirilwind since I was 10. For those of you that have played both, do they play alike or are they totally different? I feel like the Jurassic Park is a little clunky at times... does the Whrilwind feel as clunky?

Are you guys aware of other machines where layouts (vs theme) are ripped off?

I would like to say the ball eating dinosaur is a great toy, and I assume the spinning discs on whirlwind are fun too.

Also, for those with both machines, if you could only keep one which one would you keep?

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#2 55 days ago

Yes the games have a similar layout. But there are many more out there with similar layouts.
The whole package (rules, sound, art, theme, etc) is what makes the games different in this case.

#3 55 days ago

Welcome to the world of John Borg. He takes his cues from many of the best designs, sometimes his own. Often they look the same but play different. Compare Funhouse to Tron. 80% of the shots are the same, but it plays much different with no subway / stop and go.

#4 55 days ago

Very similar.

I’ve owned both and while they’re both amazing pins I give a slight edge to jp for the dmd and just more going on w it.

#5 55 days ago

JP is way better. I have owned it and played a ton of WW over the years. I never thought the shots felt similar ever.

#6 55 days ago

First, I do not believe you can legally protect a layout, so if someone wanted to completely copy one there would not be a legal course of action if the theme/code was not taken.

Next, there are a few other core differences:
1) WW has a second ramp, a side-ramp, that the third flipper can shoot. So JP has the T-rex, and beneath that is the loop. WW has the loop, and beneath that is the side ramp (which does not feed to a flipper, but rather the right-hand spinning disc).
2) WW's right-hand ramp lifts, and behind it is a kick-out hole. On JP, the kick-out hole is the far-right shot and is thus in a different position.
3) WW has the ball lock in the lower left, stacked like the shooter lane, and thus the entire lower third is shifted to accommodate that versus JP.
4) WW has drop targets and a spinner, toys missing from JP. JP has a captive ball, which WW doesn't have.
5) JP lets you shoot into the pops from the upper flipper. There's no opening on the side to do that on WW (for WW's lower pops).

I think both are fun. They shoot similar, but rules are different. I find both somewhat clunky. JP's rules remind me more of TAF than WW.

#7 55 days ago

Yeah you aren’t the first to notice this.

The ruleset is also stolen wholesale from Addams family.

There’s a reason why this is considered one of the better DE games. Ripped off the best in excruciating detail.

Still nowhere near as good as wind or Addams.

#8 55 days ago

I have played both many times both fun games even though they has similar layouts they both play very different. IMO i prefer Jurassic Park i think it has more depth in rules compared to WW and the T-Rex eating the ball never gets old.

#9 55 days ago

Depends on what your definition of is is.

#10 55 days ago

Yes JP has a DMD and deeper rules than WWind...

It's also got that patented DE clunk, bad flippers, and awful playfield art.

I don't know how on god's green earth you beefers are preferring it to Wwind!

Especially you Cool dino, I expect better!!

#11 55 days ago

There are other close DE riped-off-layouts but the most egregious has got to be High Speed -> Secret Service. Remove a kickout and insert a "ball eater" and center up/down post. Done.

#12 55 days ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

There are other close DE riped-off-layouts but the most egregious has got to be High Speed -> Secret Service. Remove a kickout and insert a "ball eater" and center up/down post. Done.

LW3 / T2?

Stealing layouts from Williams was practically a pastime over at DE.

And yeah Secret Service is bad. It's a complete theft of High Speed mixed with Flash. Even the posts are in the same place.

#13 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Still nowhere near as good as wind .

RIIIIGHTT.

ww is a cool pin, but lacks the gameplay and depth of JP. Most are torn up with bubbling mylar as well. Nice ones can be found, but are generally overpriced for what they are.

JP has 2 different 6 ball multiball modes, one being System Failure which is just kick ass. AND a dino that eats ya balls!

JP has so much more going on. ww pales in comparison.

EDIT: and JP has the best call out of all time: "you didn't say the magiccc word!!" NEWMAN!

C'mon

#14 55 days ago

I think you got fooled. Let's at least admit that a DMD and a 6 ball multi ball do not automatically make a game better. Could you imagine Whirlwind with these things? I can and do not think it would make the game better in any way.

#15 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

RIIIIGHTT.
ww is a cool pin, but lacks the gameplay and depth of JP. Most are torn up with bubbling mylar as well. Nice ones can be found, but are generally overpriced for what they are.
JP has 2 different 6 ball multiball modes, one being System Failure which is just kick ass. AND a dino that eats ya balls!

C'mon

That's all well and good but the game is clunky and I wouldn't exactly call it's already-been-chewed Addams Family ruleset "deep". It just doesn't play as well as Wwind which is one of the best playfields of all time. And it has a fantastic ruleset that complements it.

You guys are pretty easily impressed. I'll admit the dino is a fantastic gimmick but the rest of the game is garbage compared to Whirlwind which is an absolute masterpiece.

But yeah, dumb 6 ball multiball and DMD...

C'mon!!!!!!

#16 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's all well and good but the game is clunky. It just doesn't play as well as Wwind which is one of the best playfields of all time. And it has a fantastic ruleset that complements it.
You guys are pretty easily impressed. I'll admit the dino is a fantastic gimmick but the rest of the game is garbage compared to Whirlwind which is an absolute masterpiece.
But yeah, dumb 6 ball multiball and DMD...
C'mon!!!!!!

All you can say is it's clunky. Big eye roll here.

JP is better in just about every way. And saying it's "garbage" is interesting considering the JP Club thread is the most popular Club thread on here.

#17 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

All you can say is it's clunky. Big eye roll here.
JP is better in just about every way. And saying it's "garbage" is interesting considering the JP Club thread is the most popular Club thread on here.

This is where it gets silly. It's not "all I can say." Super gigantic 13-year old niece eye roll here.

It's clunky. The flippers are bad. They stole a classic Williams layout but it's saddled with the garbage DE mechs so the game doesn't "shoot" nearly as well.

The pop bumpers suck. It's Data East so that's all to be expected.

It's also super ugly, the playfield art is atrocious. Again, it's a DE so that's a given.

The sound is pretty bad, tons of annoying recycled sounds from all those mediocre and bad games. Incomprehensible speech (I still have NO fucking idea what the guy is saying when you get the skill shot. Domma Hanne?!) Again, it's a DE so what do you expect?

There was a time when Milli Vanilli was selling 10 million albums a year so the popularity of a particular club isn't really going to impress me much. Jurassic Park is absolutely one of the best licenses of all time so what do you expect?

And this is coming from someone who CURRENTLY OWNS a very nice Jurassic Park. Great condition. ANybody buying?

-3
#18 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This is where it gets silly. It's not "all I can say."
It's clunky. The flippers are bad. The pop bumpers suck. It's Data East so that's all to be expected.
It's also super ugly, the playfield art is atrocious. Again, it's a DE so that's a given.
The sound is pretty bad, tons of annoying recycled sounds from all those mediocre and bad games. Again, it's a DE so what do you expect?
There was a time when Milli Vanilli was selling 10 million albums a year so the popularity of a particular club isn't really going to impress me much. Jurassic Park is absolutely one of the best licenses of all time so what do you expect?

WW:

The ramps look like crappy plastic. Yellowed. The pf is atrocious. Yellows/blues/reds? C'mon. It's system 11 so that's to be expected.

The sounds in ww are recycled like crazy. Much more so that JP. Then again, that goes for system 11, so what did you expect.

The Milli Vanilli argument is played out.

To each their own, but I'd pick JP all day over WW. Something so cool with TREX stepping and the shaker going off to the footsteps.

#19 55 days ago

Uh oh looks like rain. Jurassic is a great data east title. Lots of fun but its not in whirlwinds class.

Completely different game. WW is pat lawlor goodness at its finest. JP albeit good is still lacking the magic and 'feel' of WW.

Something about system 11 games. The good ones are just simply amazing games. Easy approachable rule sets and lots of fun to play.

I sold JP still own WW and its never going anywhere.

#20 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

To each their own, but I'd pick JP all day over WW.

Huh I hadn't figured that out. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of the taste of someone who has been actively searching for a Millionaire for years.

Quoted from Blackbeard:

WW:

The Milli Vanilli argument is played out.
.

I absolutely love that "club popularity" is supposed to be the barometer of whether or not a game is good now.

Super gigantic older sister eye roll here!

#21 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

All you can say is it's clunky. Big eye roll here.
JP is better in just about every way. And saying it's "garbage" is interesting considering the JP Club thread is the most popular Club thread on here.

The WW club thread is towards the top of the forums daily.

#22 55 days ago

It's the JP theme which makes it popular, atleast that's why I bought one. I coudn't sell it fast enough, nothing but clunk and the worst pop bumpers. I miss my WW and would certainly own another in the future.

#23 55 days ago
Quoted from twhtalm:

The WW club thread is towards the top of the forums daily.

Not like the JP club.

#24 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Not like the JP club.

NOBODY CARES

I'm gonna start bumping the Popeye club thread daily so it becomes a better game.

-1
#25 55 days ago

Clearly you do.

#26 55 days ago

Clearly I don't. I've stated many times that if you think "club popularity" means a game is good, I do not respect your opinion.

BOOOM!!

"you care" argument annhiilated!

#27 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Clearly I don't. I've stated many times that if you think "club popularity" means a game is good, I do not respect your opinion.
BOOOM!!
"you care" argument annhiilated!

If you didn't care, you'd stop responding moron.

BOOOOM!!

Going to lunch.

#28 55 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

If you didn't care, you'd stop responding moron.
BOOOOM!!
Going to lunch.

I know you are but what am I?

I'm also going to lunch. But I'll be back!!!

I'm thinking chinese. What are you getting?

#29 55 days ago

Following lol..

Got a #Whirlwind but I also really like #Jurassic Park, mostly because of the theme .. Would need to own a JP for several months to compare them properly

#30 55 days ago
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#31 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I don't know how on god's green earth you beefers are preferring it to Wwind!

If you're a teenager

#32 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This is where it gets silly. It's not "all I can say." Super gigantic 13-year old niece eye roll here.
It's clunky. The flippers are bad. They stole a classic Williams layout but it's saddled with the garbage DE mechs so the game doesn't "shoot" nearly as well.
The pop bumpers suck. It's Data East so that's all to be expected.
It's also super ugly, the playfield art is atrocious. Again, it's a DE so that's a given.
The sound is pretty bad, tons of annoying recycled sounds from all those mediocre and bad games. Incomprehensible speech (I still have NO fucking idea what the guy is saying when you get the skill shot. Domma Hanne?!) Again, it's a DE so what do you expect?
There was a time when Milli Vanilli was selling 10 million albums a year so the popularity of a particular club isn't really going to impress me much. Jurassic Park is absolutely one of the best licenses of all time so what do you expect?
And this is coming from someone who CURRENTLY OWNS a very nice Jurassic Park. Great condition. ANybody buying?

Wait a minute now, you didn’t like Milli Vanilli?

#33 55 days ago

Whirlwind is a timeless theme, smooth shooter with one of the most integrated toppers of all time.
Duplication found with other games is a compliment to that effort....JP, Twister, etc....but I choose the system 11.
A real crowd pleaser.

#34 55 days ago

I have had both. Whirlwind is a long term keeper which is saying a lot in my revolving door of a collection. JP lasted a couple of months and haven’t missed it yet. crazylevi didn’t mention my least favorite part of DE games.... that obnoxious speaker hum. Maybe I just hear on a different frequency but the sound is awful!

#35 55 days ago

"serious question" here (I always wanted to type that!):

What is the game trying to say when you get the skill shot?

Auto matic?

rotto magic?

Otto babbit?

What in god's name is that callout?

And why is Gary Busey on the screen when you get a ball save?

Also what do you think of my lunch? Not bad for 8 bucks!!!
0977CF1C-3486-4B18-A5E1-61A5648D61BB (resized).jpeg

#36 55 days ago

Levi
Weird you seem to have some kind of taste

JP for the win
But both real good games

#37 55 days ago

Great now im hungry

#38 55 days ago

3hrs time went by from menu pic to food pic. No wonder it was only $8

#39 55 days ago
Quoted from JayDee:

3hrs time went by from menu pic to food pic. No wonder it was only $8

I took the pic and decided eating would be more fun than beefing on pinside!!!

Stand by that decision.

#40 55 days ago

Okay Fire ?
Thumper Ready

#41 55 days ago

Hold on to your butts

#42 55 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Okay Fire ?
Thumper Ready

Your guess is as good as mine.

DCS it ain't.

System 11 sound quality it ain't!

Gorgar sound quality it ain't!

Data East quality it is!

#43 55 days ago

I always thought that JP was a copy of TAF layout but both Whirlwind and Addams have similar layouts due to the same pinball designer.

#44 55 days ago

Yeah, Whirlwind is one of the best System 11 games of all time. Not everything is about rule depth - my local place has Munsters, Deadpool and a bunch of other newer, deeper games but I spent all night kicking the shit out of Stargazer because it has three fucking spinners and they spin FOREVER. Boom.

#45 55 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Okay Fire ?
Thumper Ready

This is exactly right.

"Thumpers" are the pop bumpers. Its just telling you they are active for the park revenue build up I believe.

#46 55 days ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

This is exactly right.
"Thumpers" are the pop bumpers. Its just telling you they are active for the park revenue build up I believe.

You've gotta be shitting me!

#48 55 days ago

Thumper ready is the movie part where they find the raptor skeleton under ground
From jp topic

A thumper is "Part of the computer-assisted sonic tomography program that helps to decipher fossils still in the ground."

The thing goes of like a popbumper or thumper bumper

#49 55 days ago
Quoted from jorro:

The thing goes of like a popbumper or thumper bumper

7EE14A40-1B76-4D42-90D5-F24C98492E8B (resized).jpeg
#50 54 days ago

I'd buy that for a dollar!

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