(Topic ID: 51696)

My Whirlwind RESTORE job with CPR playfield


By seshpilot

6 years ago



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  • 72 posts
  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by radium
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There are 72 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

So, I thought some of you might be interested in seeing this week's project for me: swapping Whirlwind playfields. I'm really grateful for a place to commune about pinball here at PInside. Many of you have helped me significantly on my Whirlwind already. Thank you.

First, a few notes about CPR. The playfield is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. These look amazing. I've read all the notes about insert crazing, but once a light in under it, forget about it. It looks great. That said, I've been very disappointed in CPR's customer service. Not only are they not sure if they can fulfill all the pre-orders (anyone seen the Seinfeld car rental episode:

), but they have done almost nothing to communicate to those who still don’t have a playfield.

I am on the pre-order list and have been patiently waiting. I've emailed with no response. I pre-ordered around August 2012 and even though the contact deadline was around May 12, I never got a response. Just another note on their website saying “pre-orders being contacted in waves.” I'm cool with waiting, but as a business owner myself, pretty firmly believe in “under-promising/over-delivering.”

Thankfully, I found a pin friend in Dayton, OH who ordered 2 (BTW: why were pre-order folks allowed to buy 2 if the whole list doesn't get a chance first?), who sold me one, along with plastics. I’m VERY pleased with the product, just not CPR’s customer service.

Here's some pics of the original playfield:

photo(8).JPG photo(7).JPG photo(10).JPG

#2 6 years ago

Yep, pretty trashed. I’ve flame polished all the ramps now, repainted the cab, yada, yada. It’s going to look AMAZING. Found this Whirlwind in someone’s crazy dirty garage and bought it for a song.

Now the A/B comparison photos of mine original playfield next to CPR’s:

photo(2).JPG photo(5).JPG photo(6).JPG

#3 6 years ago

Wow, hopefully you've cleaned up the entire machine from that water damage! That mold is nasty stuff!

#4 6 years ago

First, I meticulously labelled the backside of the new playfield:

photo(4).JPG

#5 6 years ago

Then, the wiring harness (what I refer to as the "rat's nest" was laid on the board. Then, every piece on the underside was positioned just right, screwed in, bolted down, etc... Several of my wires for switches and lamps were broken or missing so I had to look at the wiring matrix and repair as necessary.

photo(3).JPG photo.JPG

#6 6 years ago

That's as far as I've gotten so far. I'll keep updating this post as I progress. I expect to finish the project within the week. I'm really pumped! Matt, I've cleaned this game up so much from those early playfield photos. TONS of work, but I love doing this. Saving 1 more game out there for the next generation I guess. If anyone has advice as I start the topside, feel free to give tips. I've got hundreds of pics prior to tear-down so I think I know where each piece goes!

#7 6 years ago

Man. GREAT job.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

feel free to give tips

Don't forget to rebuild all your coils and flipper mechs

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

I pre-ordered around August 2012

I ordered mine 4 years ago . Yes I got one .

#10 6 years ago

prob. look better if you labeled the old playfield and use it as a reference for the new one.. Thats what i did. looks good so far tho!

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

I ordered mine 4 years ago . Yes I got one .

Did your playfield have and crazing?

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballpete:

Did your playfield have and crazing?

Yes,

1 week later
#13 6 years ago

A couple of notes to relay to the community while I'm swapping out playfield and plastics with CPR's ones. Overall, they did a fantastic job but I do have a few quibbles that everyone should know about (by the way, I still haven't gotten an email from them regarding my pre-ordered playfield):

1) On the playfield, there are several holes missing that should have been drilled. Most notably, the flipper alignment holes are missing! I found this odd as when I swapped a Space Shuttle CPR playfield, they were there. Bummer.
2) MANY of the holes are slightly off from where they should be. This wouldn't bother me except that this meant that there are a few post bumpers that I'm not able to insert into the playfield without drilling new holes for them. Kind of sloppy on that.
3) Some of the fonts on the plastics do not match the originals. Honestly, this doesn't bother me, but thought I'd share so the information is out there. Here's an example:

photo.JPG

#14 6 years ago

Some of them are bold and some aren't?

#15 6 years ago

Just so everyone knows: CPR Did NOT do the Artwork on the Whirlwind Plastics (or Whitewater Plastics for that matter), we were supplied Film Positives from another Vendor for these 2 sets. Since we were provided actual Films there was no changing or altering any of the artwork.

Stu

Quoted from mcluvin:

Some of them are bold and some aren't?

#16 6 years ago

Believe me, anything is better than my plastics. I was just seeking clarification.

Chris

#17 6 years ago

Wow that was trashed.Kudos for reviving a great title!

#18 6 years ago

If you ever decide to sell that WW let me know. Nice work

#19 6 years ago

Just for fun, some before and after pics of the cabinet. I've very pleased with how this came out, but lesson learned and something I want to share with others: if you re-decal, be absolutely SURE that the wood is completely flat. Any inconsistencies will show!

photo_3b.jpg photo_1a.jpg photo_2b.jpg photo_3a.jpg photo_1b.jpg photo_2a.jpg

#20 6 years ago

Okay, finally got the game all in place! Will show pics soon. Have a MAJOR complaint: the holes are not in the right place! I've had numerous problems with this and have written up above but now I'm finding that the left ball guide that leads onto the left flipper is just far enough away from the flipper that it causes it to jump and hop onto the left flipper instead of a smooth plane. This is because the holes were drilled incorrectly by CPR. Going to try and drill new holes tomorrow. Not cool.

#21 6 years ago

Wow nice job!!

#22 6 years ago

What does the bit about the film positives mean exactly? Are those original pieces of art from Williams or what's the story behind them? If so why the inconsistencies with the plastics on his machine?

The mis-aligned holes sound inexcusable. I got my playfield recently and while it looks nice, I'm starting to worry a bit.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

I ordered mine 4 years ago . Yes I got one .

PFR took more than 4 years restoring mine, don't feel bad

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from bobbyconover:

What does the bit about the film positives mean exactly? Are those original pieces of art from Williams or what's the story behind them? If so why the inconsistencies with the plastics on his machine?
The mis-aligned holes sound inexcusable. I got my playfield recently and while it looks nice, I'm starting to worry a bit.

The film positives are what is created from the source art to make the screens. Since CPR didn't have the source digital art to make corrections they just had to use the positives they were given to burn the screens they made for printing the plastics.

I'm wondering about the holes as well.

#25 6 years ago

Ok, this will explain the "holes" issue:

We had several different Whirlwind Playfields as "samples" to work from in the creation of the CAD File. Keep in mind that there were Three ( 3 ) Different Manufacturers of this playfield when it was originally released. Unfortunately ALL 3 were Different, yet ALL 3 were still used in the Original Production of this game, so the Bottom Line is this: ALL 3 are Correct, even though they are ALL Different.

We have Explained all this on the web site....

To better understand PLEASE READ THIS:
JOIN US ON A CASE STUDY
The Decision-Making Process on Just One Playfield
http://classicplayfields.com/chronicles.html

Stu

#26 6 years ago

My Whirlwind doesn't even shoot the ball around the guide to the third flipper. It usually doinks on a post or whatever and misses the ramp or guide 9 out of ten times. I have a feeling most playfield swaps need to be tweeked quite a bit to get right for each differenct game. I am assuming the best bet is to trace the holes on your old playfield and match to the new one? I think the biggest problem is alot of guys(myself included) are just getting into swapping and all these little variations can cause things to be ruined if not handled correctly. I appreciate seshpilots posts as it makes me aware of the issues. I am still waiting for my playfield luckily and by the time I get ready to start mine hopefully some more experienced guys post more tidbits to make the transition smoother. To be honest you'd think that one playfield for the dimples and holes would be enough. It seems you are inviting more problems by using multiple playfields and putting them together. Correct me if I am wrong.

#27 6 years ago

Did you read the web site, or just what I posted in the thread?

Quoted from Squeakman:

Correct me if I am wrong

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

It seems you are inviting more problems by using multiple playfields and putting them together.

What Stu is saying is that over the year or so that a pin was in production, different manufacturers made the playfields for Williams.

Williams did not make their own playfields.

So when you laser scan a playfield to make the CNC cut file, you might find that the hole placement is slightly different from manufacturer "A" than they were from manufacturer "B". CPR has to pick one cut file and run with it.

No matter what, SOME people are going to be out of luck as far as the hole match up.

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What Stu is saying is that over the year or so that a pin was in production, different manufacturers made the playfields for Williams.
Williams did not make their own playfields.
So when you laser scan a playfield to make the CNC cut file, you might find that the hole placement is slightly different from manufacturer "A" than they were from manufacturer "B". CPR has to pick one cut file and run with it.
No matter what, SOME people are going to be out of luck as far as the hole match up.

It would be helpful to see a picture of what the actual problem is. It seems like it wouldn't be SOME but ALL that would have this problem since the donor playfield used to make the cut file had the problem.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Ok, this will explain the "holes" issue:
We had several different Whirlwind Playfields as "samples" to work from in the creation of the CAD File. Keep in mind that there were Three ( 3 ) Different Manufacturers of this playfield when it was originally released. Unfortunately ALL 3 were Different, yet ALL 3 were still used in the Original Production of this game, so the Bottom Line is this: ALL 3 are Correct, even though they are ALL Different.
We have Explained all this on the web site....
To better understand PLEASE READ THIS:
JOIN US ON A CASE STUDY
The Decision-Making Process on Just One Playfield
http://classicplayfields.com/chronicles.html
Stu

]

That is great info, I have seen you post this in the past.

Even with the cuts being a bit different the parts would still line up properly with each other, right? You just have to adjust how you place them on the playfield in relation to each other, that is unless its a through hole post for example which can't be moved around.

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

It seems like it wouldn't be SOME but ALL that would have this problem since the donor playfield used to make the cut file had the problem.

It's not a "problem" on the orig playfield, because it had components that matched it at some point. Maybe plastics with different slot, or wider guide or...or...or....

Think of all the people who order F14 parts (they made 15,000+ of these things), some have different display mounts in the backbox, some take different light bulbs (555s in later, 44 in earlier). So if you buy a display, and have a different mount in your backbox, you have some drilling to do. If you buy a kit of 555 LEDs, and your game needs the 44s, you have some returning to do. It does not mean that these games had problems, just that there were variations.

#32 6 years ago

We don't laser scan the playfield for the CAD File > each & every hole, cut out, etc. is precisley measured & Drawn in the CAD File.....

Quoted from vid1900:

So when you laser scan a playfield to make the CNC cut file

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's not a "problem" on the orig playfield, because it had components that matched it at some point. Maybe plastics with different slot, or wider guide or...or...or....
Think of all the people who order F14 parts (they made 15,000+ of these things), some have different display mounts in the backbox, some take different light bulbs (555s in later, 44 in earlier). So if you buy a display, and have a different mount in your backbox, you have some drilling to do. If you buy a kit of 555 LEDs, and your game needs the 44s, you have some returning to do. It does not mean that these games had problems, just that there were variations.

Totally understood on that part. I always thought the playfield parts (mechs, ball guides, etc) were all exactly the same. I'm not counting light sockets since they do nothing to direct the motion of the ball.

It would be easy to just take a picture of the two parts, one on the original PF (assuming it was correct there) and then a picture installed on the CPR field to demonstrate the differences but with just a basic description its hard to understand if this is a problem or not.

I'll just assume its not a problem until proven otherwise

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

We don't laser scan the playfield for the CAD File > each & every hole, cut out, etc. is precisley measured & Drawn in the CAD File.....

I don't know about the prices in Canada, but here in the rust belt, a laser playfield scan runs $25 a side in low resolution ( .1mm) . It only takes them a few minutes to run it.

#35 6 years ago

Just so everyone can get a reference, here's what I'm talking about. The 1st photo is the left flipper (notice the gap); the 2nd photo is the right (notice zero gap):

photo_1.JPG photo_2.JPG

#36 6 years ago

So your Plastic lines up correctly but the Metal Guide under it dosent...looks like the metal guide is drilled wrong since the Plastic lines up correctly.....

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

So your Plastic lines up correctly but the Metal Guide under it dosent...looks like the metal guide is drilled wrong since the Plastic lines up correctly.....

Sure does. I need to go and look at mine before I take them apart.

#38 6 years ago

From memory I think my plastic and metal rail are a little bit like that on one side but not as bad as yours is. My WW is still stock though and I wasn't planning on replacing the playfield.

#39 6 years ago

Thanks Stu. Maybe I'll replace the metal guide if possible.

#40 6 years ago

Thanks for the pictures.

image.jpg image2.jpg

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

Thanks Stu. Maybe I'll replace the metal guide if possible.

I'm pretty sure cliffy is now making the metal guides for whirlwind

http://www.passionforpinball.com/FlipFrames.htm

#42 6 years ago

Since the whirlwind playfields may have different sizes for the guide rails I'm wondering if cliffy would drill specific holes in his guides to match individual playfields?

#43 6 years ago

The gaps on my original Whirlwind between flipper and ball guide are exactly the same and the pics Sesh is showing. The right is almost touching and the left has a big gap.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

The gaps on my original Whirlwind between flipper and ball guide are exactly the same and the pics Sesh is showing. The right is almost touching and the left has a big gap.

If its factory then its factory. I would probably just grind down the ball guide versus drilling new holes in the playfield.

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

If its factory then its factory. I would probably just grind down the ball guide versus drilling new holes in the playfield.

Even if it is not factory ,the best way to fix is a two minute sand roll on a dremel.

#46 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Even if it is not factory ,the best way to fix is a two minute sand roll on a dremel.

NOOOOOOOOOOoo lol Some people.

Quoted from seshpilot:Just so everyone can get a reference, here's what I'm talking about. The 1st photo is the left flipper (notice the gap); the 2nd photo is the right (notice zero gap):

At this stage of the game be happy you get anything at all. It would take me longer to type that out then it would be for me to whip my dremel out of my back pocket (yep thats where I keep mine) and just fix it. I do so much port work on 2 strokes if you see me without a Dremel it must be dinner time.

Thanks for the review though.

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from AkumaZeto:

NOOOOOOOOOOoo lol Some people.

LOL , I think it is funny that a dremel to some is a bad thing .

#48 6 years ago

dremel is only a bad word when you are expected to use it on a NIB game...

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

dremel is only a bad word when you are expected to use it on a NIB game

Only if you are a retard

#50 6 years ago

Okay, I'm DONE! Finally got everything to work. Had problems with the pop bumper lights (blown resistors), some switches (cut lines somewhere on the PF, just replaced the line), and some fuses. Honestly, the thing that scared me the most about this swap was the rivets on the plastics. No biggie whatsoever though! Simply replaced with bolts and nuts, no need for rivets. To all those out there about to do a swap, go to hardware store and buy "m3" sized bolts w/ nuts. Simply drill out the rivets and keep the brackets. No need for rivet press and all that.

First, a pic of the empty playfield in the cab, then some pics of the finished product. SO HAPPY! To all those about to attempt the PF swap, you can do it! Feel free to msg me with any questions.

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