Whirlwind
Williams, 1990You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider slash.
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I got mine for $400 AUD :0)
Doing a full restore on it.
New plastics, new ramps, fixed the cabinet and putting decals on (was too damaged IMO to keep the original art), hopefully new playfield too depending upon when CPR get their run done. Fortunately the price I paid leaves me money to spend on these other items.
Still chasing a new topper tho.
I received mine yesterday and from the quick check I did yesterday I couldn't detect any lines in the clear.
Here is a pic of mine from the latest CPR run, it's a gold too. Yours definitely looks short. Although at the same time mine doesn't look particularly long either, albeit perhaps slightly longer than yours.
287FF61F-41AF-4453-9639-DC140AFFCDB7 (resized).jpeg
I had a query someone can hopefully help with. Ive got a project WW I am doing a full restore on and I was looking at the fan and wondering how the blade is supposed to be attached. Mine looks like it has glue on both sides????
Problem is I have no idea if it actually works since I wasn't able to test it when I bought the game (only paid $400) and it's now in pieces as I go through my restore. When I manually turn the fan the blades seem to catch at the back, but if I pull the blade off I have no idea how I would reattach it. Also if I pull it off I'm worried I would need not just a new fan but perhaps motor as well if the shaft for the blade is messed up?? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
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I’m doing a restoration on my WW and noticed that the flipper coils are FL-11629 whilst the manual says they should be FL-11630.
My understanding is the 11629’s are more powerful. But I’m worried about smashing plastics etc if they are too overpowered. Any advice on whether I should change them back?
Speaking of spinning disc decals. Where do people recommend buying them from. I bought some from Marco’s a while back and finally took them out at the weekend to put them on, but they feel really smooth with not much grip/texture at all????
I'm guessing nobody has every produced flashing EL lights in those lightning side blades? This game just seems like a perfect fit for it.
That was one part of the Thunderbirds pin I thought looked awesome when it was first shown. It had EL lightning panels on the backbox sides. The effect looked really cool when it was demonstrated. But he ended up scrapping it, one of the only cool features of that game. lol
I have had to purchase a new 1 Bank Drop Target Opto Board C-13311-R.
What do I use to attach the wires to the connector. The connector looks like this:
https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/electronics/connectors/100-molex/5792-12535-05.html
Ive repinned connectors before but never done IDC?
Im getting close to finishing my restoration and have been rebuilding my ramp lift mechanism as half of it was missing when I got the game, consequently I don't have any photos to work off.
I bought the Armature plate assembly kit from Marco's and there is a part called the Residual Armature Plate (part circled in yellow in the first photo below). Does anyone have a pic of exactly where this goes? I'm assuming it goes between the coil and metal plate/tab as per the red circle in the same photo. If that's the case I assume it just gets inserted into the two holes (these can be seen in the second photo) by being bent into place.
I also had another question, am I supposed to bend down the piece I have circled in the 4th photo below. I've seen pics of it bent/folded down onto the plate? The manual also seems to imply it should be bent down and the pic on Marco's website has it bent too? However, it looks like a decent piece of metal to have to bend that would probably need a fair amount of force?
IMG-5027 (resized).jpgIMG-5026 (resized).jpgIMG-5056 (resized).jpgIMG-5026-2 (resized).jpgScreen-Shot-2020-05-10-at-9-17-26-am (resized).pngIMG-5055 (resized).jpgThanks for the pics and links. I’ll bend that piece down but still leave a small gap. Hopefully I can adjust it later if the mech doesnt quite work right.
As for that rectangular armature piece, I guess I just bend it into the slots between the coil and metal plate.
Joined the club 5 years ago with a $400 project I picked up. Finally got all the cosmetics just about done on the weekend. Some before and after pics.
New cabinet decals, new CPR playfield, new ramps, new plastics, everything broken down and cleaned, polished, repaired and or replaced.
Managed to scrape the side of the cabinet getting the playfield back in but would like a set of the PinGraffix Pinblades, but it doesn't appear they sell them anymore??
I did have one query, I have a spare wire that I have no idea where it goes. It comes from the board on the back of the lamp board. There are a total of 6 wires that come from that board with 5 of them going to J7 on the Backbox Interconnect Board. However, one of the wires is loose (the brown one) and is also noticeably shorter than the other ones too. There are only 5 wires in the plug at J7 and space for another 4. Does this wire go in one of the spare spaces or should it go somewhere else? The fact it's shorter makes me think it should go somewhere else?
DSC01699 (resized).JPGDSC01700 (resized).JPGDSC01702 (resized).JPGDSC01703 (resized).JPGIMG_6017 (resized).jpegDSC01704 (resized).JPGDSC03450 (resized).JPGDSC01705 (resized).JPGIMG_2956 (resized).jpgIMG_2909 (resized).jpgIMG_2957 (resized).jpgIMG_2958 (resized).jpgIMG_2907 (resized).jpg044D996A-F21E-4658-A87C-7E4122ADB687 (resized).jpeg5A22BDC1-18E9-4B96-810B-5AA2029D0C42 (resized).jpegIMG_5569 (resized).jpgIMG_5576 (resized).jpgIMG_5577 (resized).jpgIMG_5581 (resized).jpgIMG_5583 (resized).jpegIMG_5595 (resized).jpegIMG_5593 (resized).jpegIMG_5594 (resized).jpegYeah I thought it was likely meant to go elsewhere.
There are six wires that come off the Backbox relayboard and as you highlight only 5 go to the interconnect board, which means the lose one should go somewhere else, but where??
I did the wire starts at the relay board as shown in this first pic (I believe it's the very top wire at W1) while the other end is just dangling in space as shown in the second pic - which is what created my initial question where should it be attached.
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Got another problem, since I put the game back together.
I have fired the game up a few times since I finished the restoration (it was not playable when I bought it 5 years ago, although it did turn on). It lit up fine and I was going through the service menu (with difficulty as it's in German so I will need new eproms), testing coils etc trying to see what was working and what might need tweaking etc.
Anyhow, turned it off came back turned it on and it immediately shut down. The 4 AMP fuse in the line filter box has blown. Replace the fuse, turned it on again and it blew again. Any suggestions on where to start to trouble shoot this?
I disconnected the wiring coming out of the transformer heading to the boards, I assume this is what you meant? Excuse my ignorance, I can do a full restoration and playfield swap but still learning on the electronics/troubleshooting side.
The game lit up and the fuse didnt blow. I guess that means it’s not an issue with the line filter? Now where to?
6BB43132-DC01-43A6-9A51-B157D82FB526 (resized).jpegI disconnected the ones you highlighted then slowly plugged each one back in. I suspected which one might cause the problem so left it until last, finally plugged that one in and it still didn’t blow???
Could this one have caused the initial problem? I think it’s J6 which I think goes to the GI? Not sure why it’s not blowing now tho?
047DB7AB-AB71-4029-BCF0-524618556897 (resized).jpegManaged to start a game so that’s a good sign.
The upper right flipper isn’t working so I will have to look into that. Lots needs to be tested and tweaked and adjusted which is to be expected but I’m having difficulty with the German menu so doing it systematically with the test function is proving difficult.
Noticed extra random lights coming on in the lamp test mode, eg one pop bumper light and a lock light would come on in addition to the insert being tested. Didn’t notice the flashers ever come on either.
I think my next best step is to try and sort this language setting issue.
The pins on J6 don’t actually look too bad. Maybe I can get away with a new connector.
Quoted from yaksplat:Next thing to mess with are the connectors on the interconnect board with j6 attached again.
[quoted image]
Double check the fuses there as well.
The inline fuse in the cabinet is no longer blowing but I now keep blowing F7 on the Auxillary Power Board - 4amp slow blo.
Strangely the upper right flipper is giving a reading of about 150 ohms when at rest and I have the leads of the DMM on the lug with the thin wire and the other lead on the lug with the thick and thin wire. It should be around 5 is what I understand, the other 2 flippers are.
These are brand new flipper coils and I have done full rebuilds with new EOS switches etc etc?? Not sure if this is the cause of my fuse blowing but it’s something I need to fix??
^^
Tried it with F4, F5 & F6 out - all good nothing blew.
Put F6 in, left flipper worked and nothing blew.
Pulled F6 and Put in F4 (note F5 was still out too) - it blew the inline power fuse.
I also noticed that one of the switches on the left sling was permanently touching. I have since adjusted it but could that have damaged something as it's in that area we have narrowed down.
^ Ok started examining each of those 8 coils before I desoldered them. One was showing infinite resistance. Looked a bit closer and this was a brand new coil for the cellar kickback. Looked even closer at it and unlike the original coil it has a diode. Investigated further and Mr Dummy Electronics Newb (me) has connected the thin wire from the driver transistor to the banded side of the diode. Looked at the other new coil I had to buy that also has a diode for the Left Locking Kickback (also one of those 8 coils) and it's also wired in reverse.
I delsoldered both of them and fired the game up and nothing blows (although the upper right flipper still does not work).
So if I rewire these in properly I'm guessing that's not the end of the problem. What damage have I potentially done. Will the coils need a new diode (what type)? Could I have damaged driver transistors on the board or something else?
Side issue as well since this is my first system 11 game, in the start up sequence are you supposed to hear a clicking noise coming from the backbox on the right hand side somewhere?
C000B337-0A10-4346-993C-4AEBF2C3CCA2 (resized).jpegQuoted from yaksplat:Okay so it's narrowed down to those 8 solenoids listed above. You could go through and disconnect them all and then keep him hooking them back up one at a time until you find the culprit.
Desoldered every one of those 8 coils tonight and it decided to go back to blowing the inline power fuse again. Arrgghhh
I did find that the transistor at Q56 is showing zero Ohms when I touch it with the DMM and the other lead to the ground braid. So I assume that's been shorted on. I will obviously have to replace that although I'm not sure if that is the source of all of my problems.
I’m also wondering if the bridge rectifiers might be stuffed.
Quoted from yaksplat:Well that eliminates the two right flippers.
try it with F4, F5 and F6 out. So that will isolate the 50 VDC portion of the board with no load.
[quoted image]
If that works, put F6 in so that will test out the left flipper. If that's still good, pull F6 and put in F4 which will check if it's one of these:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Thought I would post a follow up to this. I replaced the 3 bridge rectifiers on the boards, swapped a shorted transistor and put a new emi filter in too just in case that was a problem and it seems to have fixed the fuse blowing issues. I still have some gremlins that I need to track down though but at least I'm getting closer. Oh and some English EPROMS's have done wonders - I can now understand what it tells me in test mode.
Quoted from Jmckune:Does anyone have some topside teardown pics so I can see where posts are supposed to go? Thanks
I believe these are the photos from another Pinsider's playfield swap. I used them a LOT in my recent restoration:
Had a couple of alignment queries after my restoration and playfield swap.
The right orbit shot - I understand this is supposed to end up hitting the low pressure pops, not go straight through them and onto the flippers (or SDTM quite often). My question is which bumper is it supposed to hit first or should it hit the post and rubber at the end of the metal guide that it feeds around?
The kickout from the cellar - should this land straight onto the left flipper or should it hit the left slingshot?
A full plunge from the shooter lane - mine goes part way up the left ramp then rolls back down, is this where it should be or should it go around the inside orbit? I know the skill shot should hit the 3 bank drop targets, but I just wondered where a full plunge should end up?
74F460BE-906A-4B54-A5AE-2B79B018FE50 (resized).jpegA686D9FA-FA8C-4E2B-BF4B-5EE59A2B8214 (resized).jpegDoes your's have a piece of rubber/foam like this on it? I believe it's supposed to.
https://www.rtbb.com.au/product/blue-rubber-pad-with-adhesive-backing-23-6645/
When I did my restore I forgot to add it and it wouldn't stay in there at all. That said, even when I added it I was still getting rejected from the saucer about 50% of the time. I tried changing the orientation of the rubber so instead of going down the metal "backboard", I rotated it 90 degrees so it was straight accross it. That seemed to help a lot, although I still get occasional rejects.
Quoted from Jmckune:Does anyone have an extra or know where to get the under ramp eject deflector? When I got my game in pieces, it wasn’t there. I’m currently improvising with a regular deflector, but I get a lot of rejections unless I backhand it. Rest of game looks amazing though!
[quoted image]
I bought mine from here:
https://www.rtbb.com.au/product/blue-rubber-pad-with-adhesive-backing-23-6645/
It's from Oz through, so you may be able to find somewhere closer to home. I was still getting rejections even after installing it. I ended up rotating it 90 degree so instead of running up the metal tab it was actually laid across it near the bottom. That seemed to help a lot!
Edit - I just re-read your post. Are you missing the metal tab entirely?
Something like one of these might work:
https://www.thepinballwizard.net/playfield-parts/eject-hole-deflector-01-6933-1/
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/193415052369
Depending on their angle you may need to bend them further (if possible).
I have a couple of issues I would love some help with. The first is one Ive had since I got the game and never been able to resolve and the second one is more recent.
First, none of the "Skyway Tolls Collected" lights work at all. I have continuity on the yellow black wire from J20 on the Interconnect board right down to the light board. Could it be the light board itself or is there something else on the Interconnect board I can check that might be causing it?
The second issue is a more recent one I have noticed. I am not being awarded the Super Cellar Door awards. I have tried manually activating the switch on the right inlane (it makes a noise and awards points when I do it - so that switch is working), then putting the ball in the cellar (the right one with the yellow light), but I don't get given any award for it. But it obviously knows the ball is in there as it then kicks it out of the left cellar hole??? Thoughts?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Why don't you check for continuity from the cpu board to the innerconnect board on the yellow/black wire.
Slight error in my previous post. I can confirm that I have continuity on the yellow black from the lamp board under the playfield up to the J3 LAMPS ROW/COLUMNS on the Interconnect Board (I previously incorrectly said J20). I also have continuity from there (J3) to 1J7 on the CPU Board.
Quoted from zacaj:There's a second switch in the subway between the two scoops. If it sees that switch first, it registers as the right scoop, otherwise, it thinks you went in the left
When I go into switch test and manually activate the switch in the right cellar (the one it first encounters) it registers. Maybe its not protruding enough into the subway assembly so when the ball rolls past it isn't pressing it down far enough to activate??
Quoted from Slash:When I go into switch test and manually activate the switch in the right cellar (the one it first encounters) it registers. Maybe its not protruding enough into the subway assembly so when the ball rolls past it isn't pressing it down far enough to activate??
Fixed this issue, I swapped out the switch for a slightly different shaped one and it registers now when the ball goes through. I think the switch that was on there wasn't being full depressed/activated as the ball went past.
That just leaves my lamp issue now.
Quoted from Jmckune:Are your lamps led by chance? Mine wouldn’t work at all with LED flashers but worked perfect with incandescent. I think incandescent flashers look better anyway.
Ive got LED's in the game with the exception of the flashers which are incandescent. Regardless those bulbs in the "Skyway Tolls Collected lamp board" are #555's anyhow. I swapped them back over to incandescent just for the hell of it to check and they didn't work either.
Quoted from Jmckune:Ohhhh! I misread! I was thinking of the red dome flashers on the ramp and not the lamp board for the tolls. Those are on the lamp matrix so I would think a broken wire somewhere. For all of them to be down it has to be directly connected. If there were more problems with the lamps maybe a cpu issue but if it’s just one row or column probably a break somewhere in the line wether it be from
The interconnect to cpu or from the interconnect to the lamp board underneath. Usually reflowing the solder does the trick for those types of boards but if you’ve already tried that there is a high chance of a wire break.
I put one probe of the DMM into the back of the molex connector for the yellow/black wire down on the lamp board. I then put the other probe into the back of the molex connector for the yellow/black wire on the Interconnect Board and got the "buzz" tone, I then moved that probe into the back of the same wire on the CPU board and got the "buzz" tone as well. So it would seem that I have continuity from the lamp board right up to the CPU Board. So would reflowing the solder on the boards as you suggest help in this instance?
Separate question, if one of the individual red wires for each of the lamps on that board is broken that would only affect that specific lamp from working not the whole board right?
Quoted from Jmckune:Yes if it was just one lamp then it would be an individual red+ stripe color. If it’s all of them it could be a bad solder joint on the ground pin on the bottom of the lamp board. Whenever I get a new game I take the time to reflow solder on all under playfield boards and address anything else as needed. Are any of the connectors burnt? Usually it’s the GI this happens to but you never know.
You hit the nail on the head!! I reflowed the solder on the ground pin and bingo it finally works.
Thank you VERY much - that's driven me crazy for ages!!!
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vbobrusev
Bakersfield, CA