(Topic ID: 62621)

Whirlwind Club... Members Only!


By mof

5 years ago



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#99 5 years ago

I've had my table (my first) for less than a month and I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Still in the getting-to-know-you phase of the relationship as I work my way though it, crossing jobs off the task list while steadily adding new items. Have used a lot of online suppliers, intentionally sampling different outfits to see what they're like. Also have used my local glass shop to replace both pieces of glass. Next up are the flippers, which have all wrong coils including mismatched left and right - going to do the Fliptronic style. I like the topper mods I see here too so I guess I'll add that to my list!

#103 5 years ago

I took a cue from shanetastic with my back panel lightning board but I used poster board instead of paint to cover-up the PCB. Picked up some white PB from the art store and noticed some sheets that were silver on one side and gold on the other so grabbed that too. Offered each one up and decided that the silver coordinated well with the overall color scheme, especially with the silver-grey clouds on the left side, so I went with that. Easy to change though since it's just sandwiched against the board.
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#127 5 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

I'm getting an adjust failure message when I power up.
I replaced the batteries and I'm still getting the message. It plays fine when I manually set it to free play in adjustments. When I turn it off and turn it back on it goes right back to adjust failure.
Help. ?? Thanks.

Have you looked at this? Section 3n - battery issues causing adjustment failures.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm

#145 5 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

So finally opened up my ww, and it has some corrosion from the batteries onto the u41 chip. I'm guessing this is causing my start button to not function in the menu (since I have no idea what u41 does, and that is the only issue in the game)

You might find this writeup by Wayne Eggert instructive regarding corrosion on U41:

http://www.techdose.com/repairlog/Whirlwind-Pinball-Repair--Battery-Corrosion--Display-Repair/344/page1.html

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from swenny:

I don't know if this Q belongs in this thread or the tech side, but thought I'd start here first. Just bought my first pin last week (a WW obviously). After playing a few days, I noticed that it didn't seem like my backboard was lighting up as much as it should. Started investigating and found that the entire string of lights at the top, as well as the lights on the R. side don't come on. I traced the wires for both of those set of lights to the backbox interconnect board. They plug into J7 which is just below fuse F3. Can anyone tell me what I should do to get the lights functioning. I'm thinking it is perhaps a fuse, but how do you know which one?
Thanks for the help,
Swenny

Agree with Dewey68 - check J6 thru J10 on the interconnect board (right side). Any burnt connectors need to be replaced and, unfortunately, the associated pins on the board as well.

#155 5 years ago

#32 sits on a spacer on the left side under the flasher in front of the cellar. Having a tough time finding the other two - maybe mine are missing.

1 month later
#189 5 years ago

I've just finished installing a limited set of LEDs as a trial run for a full-on replacement. I have a kill-a-watt, so I thought it would be fun to see what kind of impact LEDs really have on power use.

I changed out all the lamps in the back box, the controlled inserts on the display board as well as the lightning panel insert above the playfield. The rest of the lamps in the game are still incandescent; the main display has also already been replaced with a LED unit.

Prior to the swap the game (in attract mode) was running 200-210 watts and 2 amps.

After the limited bulb swap it dropped to 160-165 watts and just under 1.6 amps.

Can't wait to finish the job to see the final results.

I used niftyled.com for this project.

The back box is mostly frosted warms whites (logo and vehicles) but I did use blue for the cloud guy's two eyes and cool whites for the rest of him. I also used their 455 super blinkers, substituting a color-changing SB blinker for the dome on the storm chasing van.

Non-ghosting cool whites went in both the controlled inserts and lightning panel as well as SB 906 flashers. The upper end of the playfield really gets lit up with that lightning panel setup!

#196 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Being from Chicago, I am thinking of removing the little W sticker on the translight that covers the Cubs baseball hat. Has anyone removed theirs? Does it remove easily?

Thought about it - figured a little goo gone would help it come off easily. Ended up replacing the translite with a NOS piece, which turned out to not have a sticker - the Williams logo is part of the art.

2 weeks later
#216 5 years ago

Apologies to WOZ people for "stealing" one of their toys but I couldn't resist grabbing one of Tim Mezel's twistnados for my WW. Trying out the lower bumper location for now - I'll try to get it lit up sooner or later.

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2 weeks later
#218 5 years ago

Some parts from Pinball Life came today that let me do a repair of something that had taken me quite a while to realize it was even a problem. One of those things that maybe you know isn't right but it takes a long time to get to the point where you really see it for what it is - for it to really register in your brain.

After switching over to LED I had some problems with a few 555 lamps in a couple of locations. Lamps not always lighting and others full on when they're not supposed to be. Slowly realized that they were all the lamps in switch matrix column #2 - the top drop target lane and the two outlanes.

The matrix says column #2 is transistor Q64 and, sure enough, the DMM says Q64 is bad.

Purchased a handful of TIP42 transistors for this order, just in case. R&R of Q64 and - sweet success - everything works properly! Finally, something that fixes the first time and doesn't make me hunt for it.

I hope those LEDs didn't get it too bad though. I understand that the failed transistor was probably letting through a lot more voltage than what they were looking for.

While I had the MPU out I also replaced all three of the diagnostic LEDs. Somebody had broken the two closest to the battery holder - not sure how that happened but it probably had something to do with those damn batteries. The ones I used have a clear lens (red emitter) so I did all three to keep them looking the same.

Still have things to work on but today was a good repair day.

#219 5 years ago

Project Spotlight. Added spots to light up the center corridor as I like low ambient light for playing, which kind of makes it hard to track the ball sometimes. Not anymore!

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#231 5 years ago
Quoted from mac622:

2) I picked up a couple of ball gate flaps from Marco to replace my badly rusted and pitted ones but their replacements are bare metal. Do you know what finish or plating was used to make them that blackish, bluish color? I was going to try some gun blue bit figured I'd check here first.
3) Does anyone have a source for black oxide plating/finishing? I'd like to re-do the back box bolts (and maybe the ball gate flaps?) but don't want to lay out the $70 for Caswell's smallest blackening kit.

Suggestions (not from experience):

Gun Bluing - http://www.pinrestore.com/Supplies.html

Metal Blackening - http://www.eastwood.com/metal-blackening-system-set.html

#233 5 years ago
Quoted from mac622:

On an unrelated topic, can you tell me what size screws are used for your inlane guides?

Mine are all #6 as are the three in the ball lock lane.

7 months later
#431 4 years ago

No need to paint the lightning board - go to a craft store and get a piece of silver poster board (or other color of choice) and trim it to fit. Cut it right and the lamps will hold it in place.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-club-members-only/page/3#post-1233382

Added link for picture. No video but you get the idea - you don't see the green PCB anymore.

Post edited by hootowls: added link

1 month later
#477 4 years ago
Quoted from EEE:

I need to install spinner decals on our Whirlwind. Specifically the one in the upper right orbit. They are a holographic image. Can anyone recommend where and what to buy?

Are these what you mean? The one I have looks a little more orange than this but similar.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CA-47B

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2 months later
#550 4 years ago
Quoted from Jeroen:

You mean pin 1 on J11 where it says 'to insert f/lamps' on that connector. Actually, pin 1 is the only occupied pin on that connector, right?
Where you said "display/speaker panel" you meant insertpanel? Because the other end of that wire goes to the small pcb on the backside of the insertpanel.
J11 goes to the relay that controls the flashing lamps on the insertpanel...

The Brown/Grey wire from that bundle goes to pin 1 on J11 - it's the only wire on that connector. It's listed on page 98 of the schematics at the bottom of the second column on the list of connectors for the Interconnect Board. I had to reconnect mine too as someone had cut the wire near the connector.

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#552 4 years ago
Quoted from Jeroen:

hmmm
just went home and squeezed the wire into j11/1. No respose from the machine. Maybe relayboard is kaput..
How can I easily check for broken relay board. How is this board powered or controlled? What voltage should I measure and see on my multimeter?
BTW:
can anyone tell me what that relay board does for the game? Is it just blinking the lights at random, or is it interactive with gameplay?

Looking more into the manual - I'm citing the pages so you can verify:

J11/1 and J12/1 below it are both BRN/GRY wires on the interconnect board (pg 94) and supply 25V to solenoid 16 (pg 95) of which there are two. One is inside the back box insert board and the other is under the playfield (pg 42). I can't tell without opening up my game which BRN/GRY wire goes to which relay. The relays switch the power on and off to the GI lights in the back box and lower playfield - there's another solenoid (Sol 11) under the playfield, with a different power connection, that handles the upper playfield.

So if J11/1 is connected you should see problems in the GI lights not switching in either the back box or lower playfield (whichever one connects to J11/1). The GI light switching is connected to gameplay.

Hope this helps!

#555 4 years ago

The Sol 16 relay really just switches the GI lights on and off - a good example of this is at the end of game while the little controlled lamp light show happens and the music plays - the GI lamps are off for that and then switch back on at the end of the show with an audible click and the game goes into attract mode. This would be for the back box, upper playfield and lower playfield from their respective solenoids (16 and 11). So I'm guessing that either the back box or lower playfield GI lamps are not switching for you - so then it's either the relay itself or the Q6 transistor on the MPU (which would affect both Sol 16 relays).

1 week later
#569 4 years ago
Quoted from Jeroen:

Found out that relay pcb on the inside of the backboard works. It clicks and clacks wildly when I enter the the right ramp for miles.
Its just that the lamps are still not flashing along. Think now that printlanes are maybe faulty or just bad connections on the connectors...
to be continued..

You can try swapping it with the same relay from under the playfield to see if you get different results.

#570 4 years ago

I should've mentioned to check the solder joints on the pins when you check those connectors on the relay board - it could be as easy as cold (cracked) solder joints on those male pins.

1 week later
#586 4 years ago
Quoted from tommyp:

Would love a new PF if anyone knows where to find one.

There's one on EBay but prepare for $$.

2 months later
#646 4 years ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

I need some help/confirmation on some parts. First, I'm having an issue with the general illumination and have isolated it to the relay board on the backside on the backbox (the part that swings out). After fiddling with it, I think replacement is the way to go. Here is where it gets interesting. The board in the box is 5768-12243-00. On Marco, this is 12VDC board. According to the manual, the correct part is C-11902-1, which is a 24 VDC board. Hmm. Before I go ahead and order the C-11902-1, I thought I'd ask if anyone knows what they are running?

There are two additional 24 VDC relays under the playfield that are part C-11902-1, different from the backbox. C-11998-1 seems to be the correct part number for the backboard relay - using a 24 VDC relay.

Check the solenoid table on page 32 of the manual, Sol 16 and note 4a. Here's another confirming source on C-11998-1:

http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/sy11rb1_a.html

Are you sure it's not a cold solder joint or a bad connector either on the relay board or at the interconnect board?

#648 4 years ago

That table is confusing the way it combines the two relays into one entry.

Another thought, when you run the solenoid test does the lower playfield relay switch as expected for Sol 16? I suppose that would rule out the driver transistor.

1 week later
#671 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Can you guys check your backbox speakers and see what they are, or at least confirm if mine are correct?

My speaker looks like yours and is 8 ohms as well.

#676 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

OK, I have a very odd problem that comes up occasionally, let's say once every 5 games or so:
After draining a ball, the machine will kick two into the shooter lane.

Mine was randomly doing this too but it turned out to be a break in one of the metal trough pieces.

1 month later
#698 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I fixed the issue. I isolated it to the left upper pop. I then checked out the tip122 transistor (q75) on the MPU. I replaced it and all is working fine again. Hopefully no one else ends up with a similar issue but maybe this will help if you do.

It's great that you worked this out and then followed up here to close it out. I had my schematic out and was trying to learn by following your troubleshooting but I obviously was of no use. I had a transistor for a set of controlled lamps that took me the better part of a year to a) figure out that the lamps weren't behaving properly and, b) that it traced back to a flaky transistor. Thanks again for posting!

3 months later
#729 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Hey everyone. Just picked up a WW and had a quick troubleshooting question for you. My lower display and all Super Cellar door value lights are not turning on. Any tips or suggestions ?
Thanks in advance.

Check the all the connectors starting with the one on the display panel and follow it back to the interconnect board (J20), where it leaves the IB (J3) and then at the MPU (J6). Make sure they're all installed in the correct orientation. That column of transistors above J6 (Q80-87) controls those lights. The traces on the backside of the IB could also be burned but that's not very likely for those bulbs. I'm guessing one of the plugs isn't in quite right.

#730 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

This diagnostics led is blinking. Is this supposed to be happening as well?

Yep, it normally blinks away. It's used during troubleshooting if the self test fails during power-on. See page 36 of the manual for more details.

#732 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Checked all the connections and they seem right. After inspecting more it looks like there are snowflake specs on the lower display and not on the top. I took a picture. Could this be an issue.
Also - I now cannot run any diagnostics on the pin since this has happened. Only allows me to do a music test. Nothing else. I can't cycle it forward.

Sorry, I missed that you also have a lower display problem - I just focused on the controlled lamps, which seem like a connector issue.

Have you run through basic display troubleshooting? Here are two places to review display problems.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Display_problems

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm#display

And you say "since this has happened" - what was that? Was everything working before?

1 week later
#746 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Thanks for the help with my display issues everyone.
Now that my display and super cellar door lights are working I have another question. For some reason my extra ball cellar door light is already lit every time I start a new game. Anyone had this issue in the past? I can complete all super cellar door objectives and get the mega door bonus but I can never take advantage of the extra ball one because it is always lit.
Thanks.

That's great that your display and lights are working again - what was the fix?

As far as the extra ball lamp goes I'm going to suspect a bad transistor on the MPU. Do you see any other control lamp problems? Take a look at the lamp matrix table, row 4 (extra ball, Top Drop 75K, NW Arrow, etc) lamps - are they all behaving properly?

#753 3 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

I just added some lights in my cellar holes. I tapped into the GI and added some sockets with cool white flex LEDs from pinball life.

That looks nice!

6 months later
#971 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Hi all. Does anyone know the size and type of bolt that is used to secure the play field at the pivot point on the cabinet? For my restore I have a new cabinet coming and I can't seem to find the size of the bolt and where to buy. Thanks.

Check the cabinet parts list here and see if any of these make sense.

http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_Red_16-9190-B/index.html#/187

#972 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Hi all
Apparently in my haste of ripping apart my WW, I failed to take any back box pics of where all the connectors go.
Can someone post (or PM me) a nice pic of the back box inside? If it's high enough quality, I can just zoom in and figure out where the connectors go.
Thanks in advance!

Here are some shots here that might be able to get you going. I can try to dig up some more if you need them.

http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2765

#992 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Has anyone had any issues with the upper GI by the flashers in the lightning backbox? My flashers work perfectly when a standup target is hit but when the back GI turns on after a ball is plunged the GI in the back does not turn on. I checked all my fuses and there seems to be no issues there. Any advice on where to start next?
Thanks
Pete

My machine came to me with various lamp issues that all traced back to bad transistors or, in the case of the lightning flashers, a bad resistor. Anyway, take a look at the solenoid table on page 32 of the manual and their test procedures for your next step to get an idea of what to check.

8 months later
#1356 2 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Hey guys, quick question and favor.
My rear/upper GI relay doesn't work, it's always locked on (the GI relay that controls the lamps around the high pressure jets). The relay that I have has been hacked to hell and back, so I'm just going to replace it. Looking in the manual, it says it's part number C-11902-1 (http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-11902-1). Am I correct with my assessment?
Thanks,
Max

That's the same relay part number as the one in the backbox inner board, correct? Have you tried swapping it with the playfield relay board to verify it's the unit and not something upstream causing it to lock on?

#1358 2 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

The insert relay and the lower GI relay are different part numbers. Those relays are spec'd at this:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-11998-1

Sorry, I thought it was the same as the backbox; is it the same as the other playfield relay? My memory is that two of the relays are the same.

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