(Topic ID: 62621)

Whirlwind Club... Members Only!

By mof

10 years ago


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#2642 5 years ago
Quoted from bailorgana:

I’m getting two balls in the shooter lane when I have one ball locked. I checked all the trough and lock lane switches they’re all testing good with the switch edges test. I cannot figure out what the heck is going on and I happens almost every time. However this is the only time this happens. Help! Thanks in advance!

Any chance you've loaded one too many balls into the pin?

1 week later
#2652 5 years ago
Quoted from orangegsx:

Trying out a new camera setup to get videos of gameplay. Made a short clip of a whirlwind multi ball run tonight.

Some good skills there bro!!

3 weeks later
#2704 4 years ago

Can anyone offer some advise? I bought my Whirlwind with a few known issues one of which being the GI doesn’t work. None on the playfield work and only the lower half on the back light work (though there was a few brief moments a week ago when it suddenly turned on for an hour or so)

I’ve fixed all the other problems but the GI fix still alludes me. I’ve checked all connectors, none seem to be burnt out. Power from transformer seem ok. I know there are a couple of relay’s which work with the GI but I’m unsure as to their workings. Nothing obvious under the playfield.

When I start the machine I do get an “intermittent short” signal or something along those lines if that’s possibly anything to do with it.

Above aside, f$&@ I’m enjoying playing it. Wasn’t sure about Whirlwind at the start, but I’m already buying up new parts to do a complete ground up resto. Just has “play me again” written all over it.

#2706 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Remove the relay boards and look on the back for cracked pins. There is 2 relays under the PF and 1 inside the backbox.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for the tip... Are you suggesting simply reflowing or that the legs from the relay may have snapped completely off?

#2709 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Simply remove the old solder and replace with fresh new solder.

Just removed all three relay’s. All looked fine to the eye, reflowed, put back in and nada

#2710 4 years ago

Hmmm, just got the dmm out.

Relay for the lower GI, ~37vdc coming in, ~1.6vac going out

Relay for upper GI, ~37vdc coming in, ~2.6vac going out

I would have thought the outgoing VAC would be higher than that.

As mentioned I do get a “momentary short” notice, or something similar to that, when I turn the machine on, not sure if it’s related but can’t bloody track the short down.

#2717 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

GI fuses on the interconnect board are good? Any wires broken off sockets?

It’s funny, I checked continuity on all GI fuses and they buzzed out fine, but a closer look, one looked a little suspicious. Pulled it out and sure enough it was dead. Which was strange as it buzzed out ok. Checked the fuse folder without a fuse and sure enough it buzzed out.

So all four fuse holders buzz out without a fuse in it. I removed the GI power input plug J6 and suddenly the buzzing stops, so I can assume the problem is between the J6 connector and the transformer? Does that sound right?

#2719 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

When you check for continuity while still in the fuse holder you will actually be checking the continuity of the transformer winding and not the fuse. So in the future you need to remove the fuse first then check it.

Yeah right!! That makes sense, thanks... So Grumpy is my summation on the mark that my problem is between the J6 connector and the transformer??

#2721 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

That's where problems like this become a bit more difficult to follow. Sometimes when you test with out a load on the circuit it will test fine, then place the load on it and a bad connection will fail to pass current and not work. Since the relays weren't the issue and you found a bad fuse you still have 2 bad connections to find. I would remove the interconnect board and look for cracked header pin solder joints or a burnt trace.

Ok, that seems a decent next step. Will do some more investigative work and report back. Thanks.

#2723 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Just to clarify, you did test the fuses outside of the board and replaced the bad one? Always pull them to test with a meter if not. I would definatly do as GRUMPY said and check the interconnect board. You can also check for loose or broken wires on the GI sockets and run continuity from the connector to the sockets.
If your collection is accurate, I would swap interconnect boards with your Taxi and see if the issue follows the board...

Yep I tested the fuses outside of the board. Haven’t replaced them yet but will definitely replace the bad one.

Yep I do have a fully working Taxi. It did cross my mind to swap boards, but after only just finished restoring it, I’m hesitant to pull it apart . May have to though.

If checked all sockets a few times with all of them buzzing out due to the problem further up the line. May have to take a closer look.

#2725 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Awesome. I know it's a pain but I would definitely swap the board out. It will help you isolate your issue pretty quickly.

Took off the interconnect board. There has been a couple of repairs done but it appears ok. Put back in, replaced the fuse, double checked all the bulb holders and wiring... Powered it back on and the upper GI turned on, no lower GI and still the same missing on the backbox. From memory, it was the same when I received it, just the upper GI very intermittently.

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#2727 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Here is a pic of the lower GI relay. Pull off the big connector with the yellow wires. Take a paper clip and jumper the yellow wires on the connector. Turn on the game, does the lower GI work now?
[quoted image]

Jumpered and no change

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#2728 4 years ago

I doubt it’s related, but all my drop targets are refusing to pop back up.

#2731 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Ok then you need to check continuity from one of the yellow wires on this relay connector to the GI connector on the inner connect board and the other yellow wire to a GI bulb.

Hmm ok, yep that sounds logical.

#2732 4 years ago

So I’ve done some more testing, I haven’t taken off the interconnect board for a second inspection or swap with my Taxi board. I found a cable loose J16 on the interconnect board with has brought the drop targets back to life, but the lower GI problem still exists.

Funny thing is, that on a couple of occasions the lower GI and the rest of the backboard has lit up. Upon turning off the pin, then back on and the lower GI is off again. Seems logical that there is a loose connection somewhere or possibly still a short (but I’m thinking less likely).

Any thoughts?

#2733 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Ok then you need to check continuity from one of the yellow wires on this relay connector to the GI connector on the inner connect board and the other yellow wire to a GI bulb.

Just tested and yes, there is continuity between the yellow interconnect board at J6 to the relay under the playfield.

#2734 4 years ago

Fiddled with the GI return connector and turned it back on and lower GI was on!!! Turned the machine off and on again a few times and it still worked!!

Re-set everything readying to play it, turned back on and no lower GI again

What the hell.

#2736 4 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Forgive me of you are already aware, but whirlwind does switch between lower and upper GI during gameplay.

I’ve never actually seen the GI working properly, so thanks for the heads up, but there’s definitely an issue. The whole lower GI is out (but intermittently will turn on) along with a decent portion of the back box lighting. Even in attract mode it’s the same.

#2738 4 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Aaah. Yes, the backbox should stay lit. It shouldn't be intermittent, but during gameplay the upper and lower go switch back and forth. I think it happens when certain flashers go off. I will play a game today and take note of when this happens if it might help.

The GI in the slingshots should be on most of the time you'd suggest, which it's not.

#2741 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I still believe that you need to pull out the inner connect board and post a pic of the back side of the board, my money is on a bad header pin solder joint.

I’m thinking the same. Will pull off tomorrow morning and inspect again.

#2743 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Check the headers for corrosion while you have the board out too.

Damnit... it’s 5:30am, I’m so keen to sort this problem out but getting myself out of this warm bed is impossible haha.

#2744 4 years ago

Pulled the interconnect out. I’m yet to properly look, thought I’d post the pics first.

Couple of hacks on the back but I believe they’re ok, header pins look ok also.

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#2746 4 years ago
Quoted from JayDee:

I’m no expert in this stuff but doesn’t this path that I marked look bad and needs a jumper like the pins next to it that they jumped already?
[quoted image]

Yep it does look suspicious, but it buzzes out fine, and close inspection it looks ok.

I have tested all traces and everything appears ok. I've buzzed out all J6 traces to J7/J9/J10 and all are ok.

The fact that the lower playfield and top half (BRN/WHT BRN) of the backbox lighting fails together has me stumped. I don't see where they're connected.

Screen Shot 2019-04-07 at 11.08.12 am (resized).pngScreen Shot 2019-04-07 at 11.08.12 am (resized).png

#2748 4 years ago
Quoted from JayDee:

It looks like they connect from the source at J6. Pins 1&2 and pins 6&7
[quoted image]

From memory, those wires are daisy chained on the P6 connector. Might be time to check the from the connector back to the transformer.

#2750 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I have to agree with this. It looks suspicious and it goes to the lower GI. I would do the jumper.

Ok, will do.

#2751 4 years ago

I’m out at the moment, but looking over the schematics, it looks like the pin locations mentioned which require jumpering correlate to flipper power. I’ll fix them but I don’t think this is the issue.

J5 #2 -> J8 #8

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#2752 4 years ago

Trace jumped, board replaced and problem still there

#2754 4 years ago
Quoted from JayDee:

Maybe you need to re-pin all your connectors or give them a close examination to make sure there’s no breaks at the wire. You did mentioned you fiddled a connector here or there and got intermittent success on the lower Playfield lights. You said you have continuity throughout board and fuses are all good. You might have a loose connection at a harness.

Thanks for your assistance JD. There’s no sign of any blackening etc on any header pins. The connectors on the interconnect board look ok, but yep, there’s possibly a break in the wire somewhere.

Might have to double check the wires coming from the transformer.

I think the intermittent success was purely coincidental as I’ve fiddled since with no change. Hmmm.

#2761 4 years ago

Sorry to be hijacking this thread... would much prefer to be reading and typing about how awesome this pin is, has already become my most played pin, simple game, great shots but just so brutal, with a heap of replayability!

But...

I replaced header pins on J6, J7 & J9, and replaced the J6 connector, all a big pain in the ass to do, and still the same problem

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#2763 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I know you’ve probably already checked it but your f3 fuse looks really discolored on one end of the glass. Does it check good? Sometimes you have to pull them from the holder to test true. I haven’t read all that you’ve done so far but from a glance that’s one thing I noticed

Thanks for your thoughts JMJ, I've checked it a few times and I'm assuming it's still ok. F3 relates to the backbox GI which yes is a problem, but the lower GI is failing also at the same time which is F2. So I can only assume it means the problem is something else.

#2764 4 years ago

The problem has to lie in-between J6 and the transformer doesn't it. Possibly pin 3 of P3?

All fuses check fine.
F1 and F2 have the same power source.
F3 and F4 have the same power source.
J6 new header and connector.

Can anyone confirm where wires BRN/WHT BRN & GRN/WHT GRN go on the back box?

I'm assuming GRN goes to the lower segment of the backbox, which would mean along with the upper playfield GI, F3 and F4 (pin 8/9 on P6), which have the same power source work ok.

The lower GI, F2 and the upper segment of the back box F1 (pin 6/7 on P6) both share the same power source and both don't work. So most likely further upstream which is P3 pin 3. Does this sound right?

Screen Shot 2019-04-09 at 12.03.59 am (resized).pngScreen Shot 2019-04-09 at 12.03.59 am (resized).png
#2767 4 years ago
Quoted from EEE:

So, are you still averse to installing the interconnect from your Taxi?

Haha.... a little... but it’s getting to that point.

#2775 4 years ago
Quoted from Mageek:

There was obviously a problem here before.. Do you have 6V AC on each of the 4 upper pins wrt each lower pins on J6? One of the yellow wires has been replaced with Orange and 1 of the Yel/Wh wire has been replaced with Violet. I assume they are connected somewhere between there and the transformer before P3. I would follow them back. Are all of these connections good under the tape (Circled)?
[quoted image]

That pic shows the connector and header I just replaced. A few on here mentioned it’d be worth doing. The connector is originally daisy chained (pic attached), I have made an error with accidentally wiring in a different colour, but it is wired up 100% correct. Soldered together correctly and that tape is just heat shrink that hasn’t been shrunk yet

What you’ve mentioned is where I’m looking next, all connections between J6 and the transformer. Then if still not found, the interconnect board gets swapped out.

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#2776 4 years ago

So following on from my previous post, I was convinced the problem lie between the J6 on the interconnect and the transformer and sure enough I found a toasty connector. Really bloody difficult to find and get to (playfield up, squeeze between playfield and backbox... such a bad design), but sure enough it looks toast. Didn’t have a spare connector so for now I’ve just twisted them together and taped them up.

Powered back up...!!! And all the backbox lighting works!!! But the lower still doesn’t . I’m running out of ideas so when I get the chance next I’ll swap out interconnect boards.

Checked and jumped the lower relay again and nothing.

Bloody hell.

Do the tranny voltages sound right? 2x 5.8VAC ish and 2x 8.8VAC

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#2781 4 years ago
Quoted from JayDee:

How many hours have you spent trying to figure this out? This has to be killing you! I assume once you get it figured out she's getting bolted to the floor until the day they bury you in it

Yeah it’s pretty frustrating ☺️, if I wasn’t playing it so much I’m sure I would have solved it by now

#2790 4 years ago
Quoted from jhanley:

My Whirlwind DP playfield. Just thought I would show it and see what you guys think.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nice and colourful still, looks great!

2 weeks later
#2827 4 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I just put the Cliffy return lane guides in and they are smooth as butter.

Thanks for chiming in, looks like I’ll need to order a set

1 week later
#2843 4 years ago

Whereabouts can you buy the yellow pop bumper cap which has the section cut out? Or do you guys cut up a complete one?

About to restore mine and want new caps.

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#2846 4 years ago
Quoted from pencilneck:

Just make one.
[quoted image]
Take old one and line up to edge of scrap wood. Use a pick or awl punch to mark holes.
[quoted image]
Take new cap and secure to scrap wood.
[quoted image]
Dig up the roughest single ply toilet paper you can find and start grinding away at the cap.
[quoted image]
As you get close to the edge of the scrap wood, go to finer sand paper
[quoted image]
Check out your work...
[quoted image]
Mount to pop bumper... drink beer.

Awesome. Thank you!!

#2847 4 years ago
Quoted from pencilneck:

Just make one.
[quoted image]
Take old one and line up to edge of scrap wood. Use a pick or awl punch to mark holes.
[quoted image]
Take new cap and secure to scrap wood.
[quoted image]
Dig up the roughest single ply toilet paper you can find and start grinding away at the cap.
[quoted image]
As you get close to the edge of the scrap wood, go to finer sand paper
[quoted image]
Check out your work...
[quoted image]
Mount to pop bumper... drink beer.

What are those pop bumper lights? work well?

1 month later
#2885 4 years ago

Just shot my very first 3-way-combo!! Woo hoo! Finally got to hear the siren. Love this game!

1 month later
#2906 4 years ago
Quoted from atrainn:

FINALLY finished rebuilding my whirlwind! So glad I can actually play it now.[quoted image][quoted image]

Beautiful job!

3 weeks later
#2949 4 years ago
Quoted from veejay:

Just bought my first Whirlwind and completed a nice tidy up of the game over the weekend.
I have a large collection and I’m looking forward to getting into this game.
I have a couple of questions for owners.
The upper left ramp shot on mine is very hard to shoot from the saucer eject. The problem I have is the ball comes off the stainless orbit rail and the shot is almost un-makable - presumably due to the power lost from the flipper to ball. It just clatters around the ramp and back rolls.
However it is quite repeatable when the ball is neat on the upper flipper, but unless I time a perfect left orbit , its hardly ever delivered onto the flipper neatly.
The the question(s) are:
Is this normal?
What can be done to improve the delivery from the saucer kick out?
Thanks for your help.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I believe it can be adjusted (coil linkages possibly?), I did mine a number of months back but don't remember the details sorry, someone here will remember.

3 weeks later
#3046 4 years ago
Quoted from pencilneck:

A short film staring my Whirlwind:

Geez, great score. My GC is still at 15mil, my WW is brutal!!

Great looking pin btw.

2 weeks later
#3102 4 years ago
Quoted from orangegsx:

On the sheet is new old stock decals I purchased from the original supplier. He said it was material they patented called sun grip. Its actually kind of soft like leather and pretty bumpy. Grips the ball well.
[quoted image]

Is there some sort of rubber spray out there or something which will add some adhesion to the decals without impacting on their look?

1 week later
#3129 4 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

So help me out here. I generally stink at pinball, but after having Whirlwind for a week I'm playing 30 minute games, getting multiple super cellar awards, and in general going through all the functions of the game every time I play. Either Whirlwind is way too easy or I've got something messed up on my machine. I just went into the menu and set the game from Medium to "Hard"... what else should I be doing? The ball makes it up the ramp just about every time, but the ball seems a little sluggish. I cleaned the coil sleeves on the flippers as best I could, but went ahead and bit the bullet after the game didn't speed up that much and bought a flipper rebuild kit. I'm going to check the pitch on the machine. What else can I do on this to crank the difficulty up just a little bit. I'm not that good, but don't have time for 30 minute plus games. Also... does your machine eat pinballs? I dropped a few new pinballs in every game I get, and the ones on my Whirlwind already look pretty beat. Is the texture on your spinning disks rubbery or sand-papery? I really love the theme and the shots on this one. Thanks and happy to be in the club.[quoted image]

What the freak?? I've been playing for years, I'm average -> slightly above average at pinball and I can't even beat my Whirlwind GC of 15mil. It's brutal as fuck, so 54mil if you consider yourself as generally stinking is a fantastic score. I'm generally done in 5min... story of my life

What degree have you set the playfield at? I have mine setup around 7.5-8deg, and with strong flippers it's totally chaotic. If your flippers are strong, ramp the mofo up!

1 month later
#3255 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Uh huh. Very helpful, thank you for your input.

Except in this case you can't. Which is why I'm modding the rom.

Cool, any chance you can add a ball save? My WW is bloody brutal, and mates often don't enjoy the super fast game time. I'm yet to tinker with outlanes, but may have to consider it. A 5-10sec would be a great feature.

2 months later
#3335 4 years ago
Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

Oh yes. Prepare to be very excited.[quoted image]

Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

Oh yes. Prepare to be very excited.[quoted image]

Can anyone offer more info?? After I finish off my Quicksilver resto, my Whirlwind will be next, anything to make it an even better game excites me greatly!!

1 month later
#3369 4 years ago
Quoted from RobDutch:

On my Whirlwind I am missing these (and original parts/remade parts are nowhere to be found near me or very expensive) :
-Triac board
-Blower motor
-Fan blade
-Mounting plate for blower motor
I don't want to pay full dollar to fix it and I don't care if parts are original or not.
Does anyone have advice for me on buying something like a relais board, a motor and a fan blade?
I can design a mounting plate myself and 3d print it here.

I’m missing the same. Marco’s have them, but yep as you mention it ain’t cheap!!

1 month later
#3458 3 years ago
Quoted from Initiative:

would have to generally agree with mbaumle on this piece. i haven't seen much in the way of toy mods for this game available. I bought my grail about a month ago, previous owner put on art blades (pictures below for you to have a look at). cant say i really endorse side art on system 11 games, but they're growing on me on this particular machine.
pinstadium lights probably would look like trash on this game given it's bright color scheme.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I've got pinstadiums on mine and love them. They can look like trash on any game if not used correctly.

#3465 3 years ago
Quoted from Initiative:

any chance you could fire off some pictures to me and let me know what setting/pattern you typically use? i like the product in general (have it on my getaway and T2) and would like to maybe have my opinion changed

I’ve loaned my Whirlwind to a mate (ran out of space), but will grab a photo once isolation allows. From memory I had it set to a light blue 40-50% & white around 8%. It’s always super subjective though. Why do you think you can’t your happy place?

2 months later
#3691 3 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

Got to play a faux game with my hand as the diverter lol I couldn’t wait. And I probably need new ramps
[quoted image]

Before you lash out on expensive new ramps, consider flame polishing the ramps first. Can yield very decent results.

1 month later
#3834 3 years ago

I almost bought the mirrored backglass, but pulled out after seeing it in person. Colours aren't correct and lots of detail is lost due to over saturation. I found it quite disappointing and found a NOS translight instead.

1 month later
#3901 3 years ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

Woohoo just hit the 3 way combo on the first game after reassembling

One of the toughest combos in pinball! Great stuff!!

#3907 3 years ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

Through the lower jets(yellow pop bumpers) to the upper flipper then with the upper flipper to the right of the side ramp back to the upper flipper then up the side ramp for a cool air raid siren and a measly 250k.

It is totally messily. Considering the difficulty/rarity in shooting the combo, it’s worth a minimum 1,000,000, probably more.

1 week later
#3943 3 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Second this. I sent out my original playfield to captain Neo for a full restore before I swapped it. 3/4 through the restoration process, both CPR and Mirco announced their repros, and I kinda felt silly for going through the extra trouble to restore the original.
Fast forward to Mirco playfields having missing insert decal artwork and CPR having that weird line in the stippling effect, and I’m really glad I went through with the original playfield.

Are there any good repros? I have an older CPR repro which I'm planning on using in a resto. Any guide on what issues each had? My original playfield could be fixed, but I love the simplicity of using a repro.

1 week later
#3964 3 years ago
Quoted from Magno:

Does anyone know where I can find some mirror blades for my whirlwind in Canada? Preferably Ontario
Thanks

I love mirror blades on my Whirlwind. I’m about to strip it to restore and am seriously looking at swapping to the Tilt Art Blades. Definitely worth a look.

2 weeks later
#4009 3 years ago

So Titan are having a black Saturday sale and I need a rubber kit for my Whirlwind which I'll soon be restoring... Traditional white or translucent, what do you think?

#4012 3 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

I’ve been pondering the same decision. I’m an originality nut and have white rings in now. But have been thinking about translucent, as far as to look up the kit on Titan and print the list off.... does anyone have translucent rings in now that can share a few pics for us?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-club-members-only/page/51#post-4760562

Not my pics.

2 months later
#4068 3 years ago
Quoted from Jeffreyjonesbsme:

Last year, I finished my Whirlwind restoration.
Full chrome, RadCals, new playfield, new plastics, mirrored backglass...the list goes on and on.
I restored 4 cabinets at the same time while doing Whirlwind (I don't ever want to do that again)
Enjoy!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That's beautiful man!!! It's your resto which has pushed me to go full chrome on my WW resto. Just looks so good!!

1 week later
#4085 3 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

I knew a girl like that once.

Hahahaha

3 weeks later
#4099 3 years ago
Quoted from pencilneck:

Hopefully this fixed the stupid left lane ballhop... original playfield did, CRP playfield does it as well... so I've come up with this dohicky to fix the issue.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
It seems to work pretty good:
https://i.imgur.com/MIca3mJ.mp4
This is a first draft as it were, I'll most likely go back and make another one out of black plastic. During game play you can't see it and as it is, it doesn't really stand out as you walk up to the game.

I'd like to buy a set of dohicky's if they were made available.

1 week later
#4126 3 years ago

Looks mint! congrats.

1 month later
#4204 2 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

I would probably go Mirco - see above thread as to why. Not saying Mirco is going to be perfect, but I have heard better things.

I’d personally go CPR. Mirco doesn’t stand by his product, refuses to help and puts the blame on his customers. A monumental ass clown!!

8 months later
#4391 2 years ago
Quoted from Twilight1:

If any one is interested in these I’m open to offers. As I sold my WW a long time ago.
[quoted image]

Who make these? I only knew the Tilt versions. I have a Whirlwind ready for resto and am possibly keen... In oz though.

1 month later
#4401 2 years ago
Quoted from Cathaldub:

Thinking of investing in a repo playfield, will probably order and let cure in my house for a few months.
Are CPR still the better choice over Micro?

Yes

4 months later
#4505 1 year ago

Hey guys, for those who have mirror blades installed in their Whirlwind, can you confirm which type you used? Do WPC blades work given the wooden blocks in the rear corner holding the upper cloud decal?

402d267bdd879e74a4cd2e0028eb68d10b5e453a (resized).jpg402d267bdd879e74a4cd2e0028eb68d10b5e453a (resized).jpg
10 months later
#5002 10 months ago
Quoted from eckelpeckel:

I agree, having 2 completely diffrent games on 1 machine adds to the longevity of both.
I love bop2.0 but theres no reason to switch back to the original on that, essentially killing the 2 for 1 aspect..
Original whirlwind (funhouse too) are such great games still imo that they dont need to be upgraded so i think going for something completly diffrent is the right way to go..

Hadn't thought about it that way. I was initially upset that WW 2.0 had strayed so far from its original and fantastic modus operandi, but agree, 2 different games in one is a good thing.

Might take a 2nd look.

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