Hello everyone, I a picked up a Whirlwind at the White Rose show a little over a month ago and I’ve been sorting through the small amount of issues with it and I am down to one issue (that I know of). The previous owner knew that the flasher bulbs he had were incorrect but I replaced with Cointaker’s 906 “Super Flashers” and I’m still getting nothing.

I used a lamp matrix test board and that looked 100% good.

Any recommendations for the next thing to check/test? Every single flasher socket (that I am aware of) stays dark during an “all lamps” test and gameplay. Solder joints that I can see all look good.

It looks like incandescent 906 bulbs from Marco are cheap enough, but is there any reason to get them or would that be a waste of time?

This is my first ever pinball so I’m learning as I go. Thank you!

Thanks! It was a game I had put a lot of time into some years back when a local place had one.

Glad to understand this. I just ran the coil test and saw nothing flash. But I may have found a lead!

Doing a C-Side Test shows Err on the C Side. The manual lists quite a few things that could be wrong, but I'm guessing it could be related to the flashers not being triggered?

Nothing flashes during gameplay, sadly. See my previous post for more info though!

Thanks for the replies!

I pulled Fuse F2C and it tested fine. I’m working on testing the other items but in the meantime here are a few other pieces of information:

-I’m a dope and forgot to swap out the 6V bulbs behind the clouds. I pulled them out last night and replaced with the 906 supers from coin taker and they work correctly during a coil test and during gameplay. (Having not seen it before, the effect is pretty awesome!)

-During a coil test, when it gets to testing A side and the C side, it looks like it might be firing the same thing regardless of which side it is on. I took a video but I need to analyze it. The test moves too fast for me in real time to be sure what I’m seeing/hearing.

-To the best of my understanding the game works 100% correctly during gameplay. The ramp lifts when it’s supposed to and lowers when it should. Toll lane swaps when appropriate.

-About a week after getting the machine, the alphanumeric display went dark in the middle of a game. There had been no visible sign of degradation but I didn’t have equipment to test anything on that at the time. I installed a rottendog and it has been working fine. I read that these use less power…is there a chance a power issue either fried my original or that it wasn’t getting enough power? I bring it up in case this is a clue to a power issue.

I greatly appreciate all the help!

Should I be able to hear the switch or feel the vibration of the motion from the relay itself during these tests? And if I don't, should I just go ahead and order a new one? I watched a video of a guy replace one and while not super easy, I think I can pull it off.

This is all really helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to educate me!

Here is the video I made of the solenoid test

I have been trying to figure out how to test these things the last couple of days but the reality is, I don’t know what I’m doing.

Could you tell me how to test 5J11-1 and 2J5-9 correctly? I know where they are, but specifically where should I ground for accurate readings, and am I looking to hold the positive lead on the metal tab of the wire harness (connected to the pin) while the coil test is cycling?

Next, in order to test the 4N25 is that testing the diodes? I have tested every diode I could find on the auxiliary power board, main power, and MPU and I can only assume I’m doing something wrong because about 2/3 of them all are showing voltage going in both directions. Wouldn’t I have more problems if that’s true?

I am using a Fluke 101.

If it is not obvious, the lower drop target is in the down position in this video.

I am grateful for all the help!

You are very kind to help me out and I thank you for it!

On both 5J11-1 and 2J5-9 I am getting a reading of .680 on both A and C sides of the test.

THANK YOU for this! I finally understood what diode testing means after reviewing this and comparing to similar examples. I pulled the interconnect board out of the backbox (taking 6 different photos before pulling connectors) and tested the 4N25 at U1 like how your link illustrated, and U2 & U3 as well to compare the readings if nothing else:

U1
pins 1 & 2 .984
pins 5 & 6 .680
pins 4 & 6 .688

U2
pins 1 & 2 .990
pins 5 & 6 .675
pins 4 & 6 .687

U3
pins 1 & 2 .990
pins 5 & 6 .677
pins 4 & 6 .687

Pretty similar values...but I don't know what correct values are for this.

Apologies, but I do not understand how to ground the A/C select drive transistor...and I'm still foggy on what the drive transistor is.

My viewpoint is that everything you write is donating your time and I value that very much.

I tested each pin on both the 5J11 and 2J5 for A and C values. I present the following:

5J11 A / C
(1) .693 / .690
(2) .693 / .690 no wire
(3) 0 / .005 no wire
(4) 44.5 / 43.84
(5) 43.09 / 43.81 no wire
(6) 0 / 0
(7) 0 / 0
(8) 43.3 / 43.93
(9) 43.33 / 43.93
(10)43.34 / 43.96 no wire
(11)43.32 / 43.93
(12)43.3 / 43.97 no wire

2J5 A / C
(1) 46.53 / 46.6
(2) 77.2 / 77.2
(3) 77.2 / 77.2
(4) 0 / 0
(5) 0 / 0
(6) 0 / 0
(7) 0 / 0 no wire
(8) 46.49 / 46.73
(9) .691 / .693
(10) 77.3 / 77.0
(11) 77.3 / 77.0
(12) 46.3 / 46.7

Check, yes I can verify that happened as it should!

Check, yes I can verify that happened as it should!

Nothing

On TEST 07, again nothing.

I probably should have mentioned at some point earlier, but my MPU (CPU? I've seen both I think) is not original to this game, but it is an original Williams board. The guy I bought it from told me the original board had extensive battery acid damage and he got a replacement board from another Williams System 11 game (unknown game) that "had more features than Whirlwind used." This board also clearly had battery acid damage that was cleaned up, but there are traces that look suspect to my naked eye. I've attached a picture of what looks to be the more noticeable curiosity.

I also noticed that the left most yellow bumped causes the backglass lighting to blink when hit. Is that normal?

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I'll do that tonight when I get home. Would I test it the same way I've been testing the voltage on the pins?

Should I need to remove all the cable connectors to get accurate readings?

These are the pictures I took to help me rewire everything when I tested the 4N25s. If you want close ups of anything else, let me know please.

I'll get some readings at Q8 tonight. Thanks again!

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When I got home I set my DMM to DC, connected the black lead to the backbox strap and touched the read lead to the tab of Q8 while the machine was in attract mode. I got a reading of about .681

I say about because before I could write it down I was alarmed to discover the machine was completely locked up. I turned it off and right back on. Alphanumeric display was flickering garbled mess. It locked back up after just a few seconds.

I unplugged the machine and let it sit for about 10-15 minutes. I plugged it back in and it looked ok for a few moments. Then the flickering display started, which transitioned into nonsense, and then the machine locked up.

It now sits, unplugged.

I am completely distraught and am terrified that I just destroyed my pinball machine.

In the meantime, with the machine unplugged I diode tested Q8 and Q6 to compare it. Both were approximately .53 on pins 1 and 3.

I also swapped the 2J11-7 over to 2J11-1 but I will avoid plugging the machine back in until being further advised.

If no additional discussion occurs beforehand, please have a wonderful Thanksgiving if you celebrate it!

Voltage at 5J2-5 (confirmed BRN-YEL) and 5J6-6 (no wire present) are both approximately .6 both with the machine off and powered up.

Successful continuity test from 5J2-5 to 1J12-5 (confirmed BRN-YEL)

I guess Pinwiki is down at the moment as the link isn't working. Will try again later.

I'm surprised by having an 11A board, and by how easily you identified it! The callouts while I have played may be softer than they should be, but I have found them to be audible. Do you believe that even if I got everything working correctly that there would be benefit in procuring an actual 11B MPU? I do not mind spending money on something like that if there is a reason to.

Video links of the LEDs and game behavior.

I do apologize if I implied that I was given bad advice as I do no believe that at all! I am very grateful for reasoned and thoughtful help. I was imagining more that I did something wrong or maybe there was a static shock.

More than anything I'm sad that I have an unplayable pin now.

5J2-5 to 5J11-10 was around 110 which steadily rose. I took the lead off at about 400.
5J2-5 to 5J11-8 and 9 were both about 13

If the game was working fine other than this, I would be pretty content but the idea of creaping acid doesn't sit well with me. I added a picture that hopefully helps a little. With the way the acid would have traveled I'm shocked that U42 needed to be replaced but U41 didn't.

I was sort of worried that the gameplay video made it look like the kick out wasn't working, but the problem is that everything works until the game freezes. At that point sometimes the flippers work, sometimes not. Sometimes the GI lights go out, sometimes not. Interior coin door buttons don't function. Here's a video of me starting a test before the game ultimately crashes:

And here is a video of a restart getting the trapped balls released:

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I took a look at the back of the board and didn't see an obvious cracked joints. This picture isn't as clear as I thought when I looked on the phone screen but it does show some pretty crispy traces. Is that caused from extreme heat?

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Perhaps now would be a good time to check that each fuse is the correct type in the machine.

I have decided to purchase a System 11B board from a Cyclone machine that a pinsider had listed as being reconditioned by K’s Arcade. Between that and a new relay I’ll see what things look like in about a week.

Sounds like there isn’t a whole lot of value in the 11A board I have but there are a few local contacts I have that might at least take a look at it. If nothing else, I have a much better idea of what to look for on any future potential PB purchases.

Thank you DumbAss and GRUMPY for walking with me a bit through my first few steps of pinball ownership!

I didn’t know that self adjusting replay targets were a thing either but that seems like a neat idea. I like having a difficult but obtainable number to reach for. I believe I had mine set in the 3.4mil range.

There’s a coffee shop up the street from me with an Earthshaker that was set at 1.4mil replay. I felt bad that I was there for an hour and only put $1 in the machine I got so many replays. A really fun game though.

4.94 and 12.5 respectively

4.919

The crazy thing is, after 2 attempts to get a reading upon locking up...the game didnt freeze tonight! I got nothing on the top row of the alphanumeric display (so no idea what my score was) but otherwise I was able to play multiple games the same as I used to be able to.

For a few days I was able to play game after game with the display plugged in, but only the lower line lit up. I did not try to run the game without the display plugged in before doing the next thing:

I was hoping everything I ordered would be in my hands Saturday so I could work on it this weekend but the MPU is still en route. What I did get in was a rottendog power board and auxiliary power board. My intent was to use these as a test to see if
A) the aux relay worked correctly

B) a fully working power board ran the original display that I kept

and repair the originals to be returned to the back box once completed. (Keeping the rottendogs as backups)

Unfortunately it didn’t go so well. I swapped 1 fuse on the aux board as per the instructions and installed them both. Turning the machine instantly blew the 8A fuse in the power box under the playfield.

At the moment I have no replacement fuses but obviously something isn’t right.

What would be a good place to start to try to figure out what happened?

I should also ask, since I’ve seen conflicting recommendations, is the 8A fuse supposed to be NB or FB?

Thank you!

I have already swapped both boards back to the originals. My plan was to track down a replacement fuse locally and see if it operated as it did before but I came up short. Closest I came was a SB 8A.

Would you like to see anything as it stands?

That is very interesting to know. I have LEDs throughout except for the 906 flashers that have yet to be operable. I played a TAF on location recently and the LED flashing was too blinding so I’m hoping to stick with incandescents for the play field.

Yes, 5A would be trivial to obtain. Maybe I’ll grab a pack on the way home.

The blue alphanumeric display suits this game very well!

Update on my progress:

5A fuse has been holding up fine so far, thank you for the recommendation! I successfully swapped out my MPU with the recently acquired refurbished original System 11B board. It has restored full functionality to the rottendog display (haven't tried swapping back to the original display) and the game plays just fine without any hint of locking up so far. Just as DumbAss stated, I am getting louder callouts with the correct MPU installed. I even hit my all time high score of 21.7M! I achieved a moment in the game I'd never seen before where all cellar bonuses activated at once! I got a little worried for a moment because I thought the game might be glitching out but it was quite a show!

I still need to get the the A/C relay corrected. I will tackle that later this week.

In the meantime, I'm curious about a couple of things:

Is it normal for the backbox lighting to flicker/flash when the ball travels the ramp en route to a ball lock? Or other in game events? I'm still kind of wondering if all of my wiring is correct.

When I turned the machine on with the System 11A board installed, the storm spinners would fire up at full speed. With the System 11B board, that doesn't happen. I just hear the game start humming. What is the correct bootup sequence?

Thanks again for the help! I would have never gotten this far on my own!

Tonight, I decided it was time to tackle the auxiliary power relay. I was quickly dismayed by the fact that my desoldering gun's tip had too small of a hole to properly desolder the large pointed pins of the relay. But, I soldiered on and with my silicone tipped pump I was able to remove about 98% of the solder. The relay was still wedged in there and I tried a few things with no luck at first...

What did work was to gently twist each pin with needle nose pliers until the relay wiggled free. And thankfully, soldering in the new relay was fairly easy. After reinstalling the board I cut the old relay open to see what it looked like.

I was hoping to see something obvious, but alas it looked clean to me. I was getting worried that my efforts were not going to bear any fruit. With a few moments pause and a quick prayer, I flipped the switch...

Complete success!!!!! What a relief it was to see and hear the various tests execute correctly! I can now play my Whirlwind as it was intended to be enjoyed!

There are a couple little things I'd like to clear up though. One is the post on the right side of the cellar door lights (on the red light side). The threaded stem seems too short for holding this metal bracket and the plastic piece. It could only catch 2-3 threads as it was, but has now stripped to the point of catching nothing at all...any advice for this?

And finally, I take this threaded candy cane of a rod to be the tilt sensor. If that's the case, should there be a weighted nut on the end of it? I never get any tilts no matter how hard I push the playfield.

Thanks again for all the help! Very happy right now!

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FWIW, mine is diamondplate. When I bought the machine I didn't even know what that was, just that the playfield looked great. Happy to find out that what I have should last.

LOL, likewise!

Where did you get your rule cards from? They look nice and I like them better than what I found to print out for myself.

Original knob for this should be metal. I would recommend this one:

https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-nickel-plated-shooter-rod.html

Not expensive and will be an easy swap.

I got a 3 way combo tonight for the first time ever! I was so distracted by watching it I drained my last ball. Worth it though! I'm really happy with this pin!

While waxing the playfield yesterday I noticed that the area around a number of the playfield parts was brighter than the middle of the playfield. I realized that they must have had Mylar in those spots. Even with a Diamondplate playfield and now in a home use environment, is it recommended to put Mylar back on the high stress areas?

I don't know what the thickness of the body plus the backbox is, but this sounds like a sensible solution. Basically like how a pinball is shipped. Use something soft (foam or a moving blanket, etc) and strap it together. You don't want the backbox falling when you're trying to wiggle a machine through a door!

I am trying to figure out exactly what the bumper post that gets a yellow rubber (see full rubber kit images) should look like. Here is an image I got from a virtual pin video of the game. The spot circled is where the yellow rubber is on mine, but I don't have any sort of top like this has, and the rubber I have is shorter than the metal post is, so I'm thinking there should be something there.

Anyone know for sure?

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I have been getting phantom sweeping score bonuses a lot lately. Sometimes when hitting a single drop target and sometimes when hitting the yellow bumpers in the low pressure area.

I’m going to tackle a full flipper rebuild project this weekend, so while it’s opened up I will clean the opto lenses but is there anything else I should be looking at or testing?

Sweet, that's an easy one if true. I'll take a good look at that. Thanks for the tip!

If you can’t find the right part you can always trim the threaded stud off the top and buy an 8/32 tap kit along with a 8/32 screw. 1” length should be enough to trim off the head and leave you with a clean 3/4” (3/8” into the post, 3/8” into the hex spacer)

I am going off @jmckune’s post, I did not double check the sizes.

I'm in the middle of my first flipper rebuild and I have a question that I haven't been able to find a related answer to. The included EOS leaf switch from the Marco kit has a very long arm that makes contact withe the back end of the tighten-down bolt instead of the insulated L arm. If I cut it shorter, I'll need to bend both arms toward the coil in order for the L arm to push the contacts far enough apart.

Is leaving it like it is a bad idea? Or do I just have the wrong leaf switches?

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I noticed that, and yes it is.

I'm in the middle of my first flipper rebuild and I have a question that I haven't been able to find a related answer to. The included EOS leaf switch from the Marco kit has a very long arm that makes contact withe the back end of the tighten-down bolt instead of the insulated L arm. If I cut it shorter, I'll need to bend both arms toward the coil in order for the L arm to push the contacts far enough apart.

Is leaving it like it is a bad idea? Or do I just have the wrong leaf switches?

I used the spacer tool (fork) on top, which allows for a little play up and down if I pull the flipper from the top. I assume that's the intent.

I think I've got the first flipper rebuild done, it seems to work without issue.

I've also not seen any more phantom sweeping scores after re-flowing solder on both sides of the pin connector on the 3 bank opto board. Just a couple games tested though since I still have two more flippers to do. Should go faster next time.

Flipper rebuild complete. Fine tuned flipper angles and replaced rubbers with polyurethane. No more contact with metal on the upper right flipper at full stroke and basically no ball hop anymore either. Had my best game yet on the second game after completing rebuild. Not sure how much each of the two changes made but I was able to hit 3 multi-millions in a single multiball. Still enjoying the hell out of this game.

I looked at it for a bit. Seems as though the colors are less vibrant to me. I’m satisfied with my translite (W sticker included) and the game plays just as well either way.

Where did you get the new topper from? Mine isn’t as yellow as the one on the left but certainly not as white as the one on the right.

In the last month I have occasionally encountered a situation where the cellar eject plunger misdirects the ball to the other side of the cellar instead of back into play. A couple times it happened the game never found the ball even after it went into search mode.

I took everything apart, cleaned the metal (it really wasn’t that dirty), replaced the coil sleeve and adjusted the switches.

Having done that I have been able to get a consistent successful refire onto the playfield when it happens but it’s still happening about 1 time every 5-10 games.

What would cause this? The plunger didn’t look that bad but might it be worthwhile ordering a new one?

Yes, this! Mine came off easier than I expected. I raised the discs up to get them away from the playfield and then used a sharp razor blade to get in between the decal and the plastic underneath. Left almost no residue and then wiped throughly with 91% alcohol.

What I didn’t anticipate when I put the new stickers down was to account for their off center printing. I did a pretty good job of centering the decal on the disc but they look off center when they spin because the art isn’t quite centered on the circle.

Good luck!

That is certainly an issue. Did this happen by striking a ball?

Meaning this color mix was the 10th try and the one to go for? I’d like to touch up the front facing edge of my back box at some point but I’m not looking to do a full repaint/radcals.

Those white legs look great with this cabinet!

And do you have clear rubber on the playfield? Such a thing was recommended to me recently and I thought it might be neat to give it a try. I’m rocking the stock white rubber so far.

Can something be done outside of replacing the housing/decals?

Does anyone know where I can buy a Whirlwind keychain for a reasonable price? Like $10ish instead of the $30-50 range I’m seeing on eBay.

I should have asked. I found a lot of other Williams keychains but not Whirlwind.

Awesome, thanks!

I have installed the Whirlwind 2.0 kit and it has uncovered a few issues with bulbs and switches that I hadn’t noticed before. This one is is hopefully the final.

The flasher under the million insert does not go off in the Whirlwind 1.0 game or in it’s coil test mode. I am sure that the bulb and socket are ok though because in the 2.0 game the flasher never stops flashing.

I’m still a novice at reading the manual but I think the socket is wired correctly. The wire at 5J1-5 is indeed Gry-Yel. Can anyone confirm that the socket is wired correctly?

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This problem is almost certainly beyond me, but maybe to help get some clarification:

When all 3 targets are down, the switch test registers none of the 3?
In a game, with all 3 targets in the up position, none of them register scoring points nor will they reset after they've all gone done?

The things I would be checking:
Are the opto lenses clean? (I fixed my single drop opto just by cleaning the lense with 91% alcohol)
Are the solder joints for the connector pins on the board still good? (I fixed my iffy 3 drop bank by re-flowing that solder)
After that might be the wires in the line to the connector, or possibly on the other end at the main board. Maybe DumbAss or GRUMPY could suggest something there? They, among others, were very helpful to me when I didn't know squat about fixing anything like this. Now I know just enough to get myself into trouble.

Good luck! It's certainly a pretty looking example of a Whirlwind!

Orange. Sorry for the lengthy delay in response. I hadn't opened my machine in a little while.

I'm taking a guess you mean the Total Chaos kit for WW and the Rudy's Nightmare kit for FH.

Here are the threads I know about for Total Chaos:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirwind-20-total-chaos-the-owner-s-club
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-20-kit-announced
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-20-total-chaos-the-owner-s-club
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-20-chaos-pedretti-kit-issues

Sadly, none of them are really active and the topics are partly scattered because of a typo in the name on the first link. Since my initial issues I have a game that hasn't given me problems and offers more goals than the original. It's not for everyone but it's nice to have another game without another footprint in my arcade. I would guess an operator would be frustrated by it but for home use should be fine.

If you're curious about the Rudy's Nightmare discussion, they are a bit more active and some of the information might apply to Total Chaos as well:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/funhouse-20-rudy-s-nightmare

Thanks for the tip! Might have a green one in my box!

I've been noodling around this problem lately. I figured I should try changing springs before screwing around with the ball guide on the shooter lane. I already screwed up my Iron Maiden launch my trying to adjust that.

I’ll pay closer attention to what it actually hits but it is definitely somewhere in the upper jets.

After owning the game for a year and a half I finally got the shooter lane guide set up correctly. Matched with the proper spring (silver, I tried 4 different kinds) I can make the full loop with a perfect full plunge, no less. This opens up the whole game for me as shooting the left ramp from a plunge is a great way to collect more jackpots! And it still takes a little skill to make the loop so it's not too easy. I tried a red spring and it made it 100% but the feel of pulling back that spring was awful.

The latest code update does make it better than it was right at launch. Time will tell how good it becomes in the end but the planned auto-launcher will make the game significantly better. There have been no firmware updates since October.