Quoted from Puffdanny:Found and fixed a bad solder on a switch but didn't fix the multi ball problem
Put the game in switch test and remove the balls from the game, does any switch show up on the display?
(Topic ID: 62621)
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Quoted from Puffdanny:Nothing
Ok, put it back in switch test and put a ball in the first lock, it should show 3 switches. it should show one switch as the first lock and two in the ball trough and no more. Then repeat test with a ball in the first and second lock and not which switches show. Then do it with balls in the two locks and one in the shooter lane. What shows now?
Quoted from jhanley:You should do each of those tests while pounding on the playfield simulating vibrations during play.Just a suggestion.
You can also hold up each flipper one at a time to see if something else shows up.
Quoted from Puffdanny:Everything registers correct.shows 3 in trough at start up.1 in ball lock and 2 in trough,2 in ball locks 1 in trough and 2 in ball lock and 1 in shooter lane.
Was there any other switch that may have been involved like drop targets or lane change? You will need to find a switch that causes two switches to register at the same time.
Quoted from Puffdanny:possibly I have a faulty switch or diode for ball lock 2 that's mostly working but sometimes loses its signal?
If there's a pink connector on the switch, start with cutting it off and soldering the wire direct. If there is no pink connector then replace the diode.
1 week later
Quoted from Puffdanny:It seems like my multiball problem has ceased with the direct soldering of the ball 2 microswitch wire
You doubted me.
5 months later
Quoted from bailorgana:What I can get in town here:
https://www.frys.com/product/471935
This is fine as a replacement.
1 month later
Quoted from desertT1:Taking any other suggestions as this is a great game
Do a switch test with the balls in the same positions, look for a incorrect switch to show up that shouldn't be there.
1 week later
Quoted from desertT1:So I was able to do this tonight and in the first game after I locked a ball it kicked it out.
This sounds to me like you need to have a ball in the trough, a ball in a certain lock and a ball in the shooter lane. In switch test all you should see is the 3 switches that are closed by the three balls. If more then 3 switches show up or an incorrect switch shows up then you have a problem. You need the let the test go thru 2 to 3 cycles to make sure the problem doesn't show up. Also is there a ramp that can be in a certain position that causes this problem.
Quoted from desertT1:only because it has happened with 2 balls in the lock and the third ball in play.
You never were specific that the third ball was in play so I just assumed that you had just locked a ball and a ball was put in the shooter lane. Sorry I assumed. Well then will you will need to lock the balls and remove the third ball and try different playfield switches until you find the issue.
Quoted from desertT1:What are the odds it's a connector issue on the matrix? With classic Bally games, repining connectors and replacing headers is rule number 2 behind getting rid of the battery
Your correct in saying that Ballys need to be repined and Williams GI is over taxed but I not inclined to replace the switch matix connectors unless there has been some corrosion on the board. I still think you have a switch wiring or bad diode problem. But you need to find the correct combination of closed switches that causes your problem.
Quoted from pacman11:Bump still stuck on this issue..
Remove 3J2 from the power supply. Replace the 3/8 amp fuse. Turn on the power and watch the fuse, did it blow now? Yes= power supply problem, No= display board problem.
1 week later
Quoted from northerndude:Thx, I'll check the switch and diode.
Most of the time its the pink quick disconnect that is bad. Cut it off and solder it directly to the switch, no more problems.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Will this fix that issue
No.
Check this out.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ww-tech-help-flippers-trigger-flashers
2 weeks later
Quoted from Flip-it:i'm thinking to this coil but just want to double check.
DO NOT connect this to a coil. It goes to a switch, most likely the switch under the coil.
1 month later
2 weeks later
Quoted from pacman11:Now I wondering if it's something on the Aux board thats bad. Any thoughts?
Replace these parts, Q-4, Q-5, D-15 and D-16.
locked on coils (resized).PNG 2 weeks later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:any ideas on this Failure message?
Adjust Failure = Dead batteries.
Quoted from pacman11:I use a tip121 to replace Q15 last week.
I'm at work right now so I can't say if this is a good replacement. I would have used a TIP102 in place of the TIP122.
Quoted from pacman11:Aright something is going on, on the new rottendog Aux power board u5 36c large transistor got smoking hot and almost fell out of the board.
The cellar kickback coil is locked on. How big is F-4 fuse?
2 weeks later
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:I’ve fixed all the other problems but the GI fix still alludes me. I’ve checked all connectors, none seem to be burnt out. Power from transformer seem ok. I know there are a couple of relay’s which work with the GI but I’m unsure as to their workings. Nothing obvious under the playfield.
Remove the relay boards and look on the back for cracked pins. There is 2 relays under the PF and 1 inside the backbox.
cracked pins (resized).jpgrelays (resized).PNGQuoted from Flynnyfalcon:Are you suggesting simply reflowing or that the legs from the relay may have snapped completely off?
Simply remove the old solder and replace with fresh new solder.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:I checked continuity on all GI fuses and they buzzed out fine
When you check for continuity while still in the fuse holder you will actually be checking the continuity of the transformer winding and not the fuse. So in the future you need to remove the fuse first then check it.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Yeah right!! That makes sense, thanks... So Grumpy is my summation on the mark that my problem is between the J6 connector and the transformer??
That's where problems like this become a bit more difficult to follow. Sometimes when you test with out a load on the circuit it will test fine, then place the load on it and a bad connection will fail to pass current and not work. Since the relays weren't the issue and you found a bad fuse you still have 2 bad connections to find. I would remove the interconnect board and look for cracked header pin solder joints or a burnt trace.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Jumpered and no change [quoted image]
Ok then you need to check continuity from one of the yellow wires on this relay connector to the GI connector on the inner connect board and the other yellow wire to a GI bulb.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Fiddled with the GI return connector and turned it back on and lower GI was on!!!
I still believe that you need to pull out the inner connect board and post a pic of the back side of the board, my money is on a bad header pin solder joint.
Quoted from JayDee:I’m no expert in this stuff but doesn’t this path that I marked look bad and needs a jumper like the pins next to it that they jumped already?
I have to agree with this. It looks suspicious and it goes to the lower GI. I would do the jumper.
Quoted from JayDee:Also, my tech guy said that the connector in first pic doesn’t like to play nice all the time in earlier machines for some reason. He prefers the straight pin to pin crimp connection in second pic versus the punch in connection. From your earlier pic of lower GI relay board it appears you have the latter? Can’t tell for sure. But then again he could be referring to machines older than yours
[quoted image][quoted image]
Your tech is saying that he prefers Molex connectors over IDC connectors. I believe most if not all solid state machines came with IDC connectors for there speed in assembly.
Quoted from JayDee:Thanks for the clarification Grumpy as I wasn’t sure of the proper terminology. But since the IDC connection is essentially a wire being pushed thru razor blades to cut thru the insulation and make connection, is it possible that Flynnyfalcon could have a wire that broke at this point from time, vibration, heat, someone being an animal and setting it too hard, etc? And by the way, my Orr Power Play is all molex so the tech could have been referring to early solid states.
You are correct in the operation of IDC connectors, and yes there is a very good chance of a poor connection as you describe. OP says that the connectors are not discolored, well that's because the GI isn't on. If the GI was on then there would be excessive heat and discoloration. The back of the board is showing discoloration on the traces. Most of time if you're not going to run LEDs you need to replace the headers and connectors with turfcon pins and connectors. Also as far as older Bally and there .100 connectors, they are the worst of the worst and always need to be replaced.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:I'm assuming GRN goes to the lower segment of the backbox
I don't have this game, so your going to have to look on the back of the insert board. Find the lamps that are working and follow it back to a brown or green wire.
Quoted from RobDutch:Display doing weird stuff:
The strobe for that digit is stuck on, that is why its so bright. It will burn out the display if you keep running it.
Quoted from RobDutch:Yeah I know that, now to find the cure
The strobes come from U-44. Disconnect the J-1 and J-2 connectors so not to burn the display. Then test the outputs of U-44 pins 1-11 and 13-17 with a logic probe. Note down the pin that isn't pulsing.
Quoted from RobDutch:but they all seem to pulse..
Good, this means the CPU is good. Problem maybe on the display driver board.
Quoted from RobDutch:could that cause the displayproblems?
No.
Quoted from Puffdanny:is this a bad relay or do you think it's something else like the relay not getting the signal?
Most likely the relay is fine, pull the cpu board and check the back of the relay for cracked solder joints.
cracked pins (resized).jpgQuoted from RobDutch:I don't know if my logic probe just doesn't work well or if the outputs are okay
You can narrow down the problem to strobes 1-8 or 9-16 by disconnecting J-1 or J-2 on the display board. Once you have figured out which strobes are the problem, then check the appropriate NOR gates for pulsing on the outputs. Let me know what you find.
dis (resized).PNGQuoted from Puffdanny:Well its definitely been worked on and to my untrained eye it looks like crap
[quoted image]
Well I have seen better! 
Quoted from Puffdanny:I'm going to take it to a friend that solders better than me
Also since you have the board out, double check 1J-19 pin 1 and 2 for cracked solder joints.
3 months later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I checked the connector before but I'll check again and make sure everything is seated correctly.
Check the connectors on the inner connect board.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Any ideas?
Cracked header pins on the inner connect board.
3 weeks later
Quoted from krahsdnal:Where does it connect? You may have to put it in lay mens terms ...
Yellow/purple and a purple/blue wires.
k (resized).PNG 1 month later
Quoted from northerndude:For your first issue, it looks like this connection has no wire, must be there??[quoted image]
You don't connect switch wires to lamp wires. I don't even know what kind of mess this would cause, but it would be very bad.
Quoted from granolapunk:Can anyone tell me where this wire should go in the photo?
Follow this yellow wire and see if it connects to a green/blue wire. If it does, then connect it to where my arrow is pointing.
whw (resized).jpg 2 weeks later
Quoted from misterman:Will be ordering new balls, and some cleaning supplies soon
Get some spot light sockets and reflectors to add some more light to the playfield.
3 weeks later
Quoted from yaksplat:I changed out Q1 and Q2 but i'm still not getting a connection from pin 6 to pin 7 on J4.
You never will. Pin 7 should be @70 volts all the time. Pin 6 should be ground when active.
Quoted from yaksplat:Could anyone point out a next step in testing?
Connect a logic probe and place game in solenoid test for this solenoid and test the base of Q-3 for pulses.
1 month later
2 weeks later
Quoted from Jr99svt:But they are out there.
The only thing I have found out there is counterfeits that explode when powered up causing more damage to the board. So I am using used board pulls until they are all gone.
5 months later
3 months later
Quoted from mark532011:Trying to make one. The pic doesn’t show which side has a groove or clip. Can anyone tell me what the orientation should be?
Look very careful, the connector pins are numbered.
4 weeks later
Quoted from mark532011:During the lamp test, not one of the large lamps (505?) in the back cpme on.
These are not lamps, they are flashers. They will work during solenoid test. They are also #906 12 volt bulbs.
Quoted from mark532011:a plastics question. This seems kind of wonky to me but it could be accurate. The plastics on the left side of the playfield are angled and bent downwards. It's hard to tell from reference pics, is this the way its supposed to be?[quoted image][quoted image]
It is that way so the ball will run off the plastics and not be stuck.
Quoted from Jmckune:but on Whirlwind they won’t even light up on the skyway ramp so I’m not sure what the problem is.
Make sure you have the power wire going to the center terminal of the lamp sockets.
7 months later
Quoted from Slash:I have a couple of issues I would love some help with. The first is one Ive had since I got the game and never been able to resolve and the second one is more recent.
First, none of the "Skyway Tolls Collected" lights work at all. I have continuity on the yellow black wire from J20 on the Interconnect board right down to the light board. Could it be the light board itself or is there something else on the Interconnect board I can check that might be causing it?
The second issue is a more recent one I have noticed. I am not being awarded the Super Cellar Door awards. I have tried manually activating the switch on the right inlane (it makes a noise and awards points when I do it - so that switch is working), then putting the ball in the cellar (the right one with the yellow light), but I don't get given any award for it. But it obviously knows the ball is in there as it then kicks it out of the left cellar hole??? Thoughts?
Why don't you check for continuity from the cpu board to the innerconnect board on the yellow/black wire.
Quoted from Slash:I put one probe of the DMM into the back of the molex connector for the yellow/black wire down on the lamp board. I then put the other probe into the back of the molex connector for the yellow/black wire on the Interconnect Board and got the "buzz" tone, I then moved that probe into the back of the same wire on the CPU board and got the "buzz" tone as well. So it would seem that I have continuity from the lamp board right up to the CPU Board. So would reflowing the solder on the boards as you suggest help in this instance?
Separate question, if one of the individual red wires for each of the lamps on that board is broken that would only affect that specific lamp from working not the whole board right?
Are all 8 toll lamps not working?
3 months later
Quoted from Phantasize:Hello everyone
I have a Whirlwind that started acting up, due to switches registering wrong. And the most annoying part is that the machine is being picked up by a buyer in 3 hours... Tha machine have always been working perfectly up until now.
I have included an image that shows the problem. But in short, when i trigger switches from row 8, another (wrong) switch from row 8 triggers instead. IE triggering right outlane (switch 16) with my finger, shows Inner loop (switch 40) registering in the display.
If i disconnect the switch cables from the CPU board, and jumper the pins instead, everything is registering correctly.
Hoping someone has a an idea where to look?
NOTE: i posted this in the generic tech thread as well. Sorry for double posting, but i have a quite serious time issue [quoted image]
Look for a shorted diode on one of the switches or a miss wired switch.
3 weeks later
3 months later
4 months later
Quoted from mark532011:I don't really understand what the other pins are telling me though, for example, pin 3J3-1 what is
19.4V ac, 10, C. T.
What they are saying is if you were to check the AC voltage across the transformer secondary winding ( GRAY/GRAY GREEN) you would read 19.4 volts AC. If you were to check the voltage from the center tap wire (GREY WHITE) to each side of the winding you will read 9.7-10 volts AC.
gg (resized).PNG 4 months later
Quoted from AssaultSuit:Thanks! It was a game I had put a lot of time into some years back when a local place had one.
Glad to understand this. I just ran the coil test and saw nothing flash. But I may have found a lead!
Doing a C-Side Test shows Err on the C Side. The manual lists quite a few things that could be wrong, but I'm guessing it could be related to the flashers not being triggered?
You need to check the A/C relay and its drive circuit.
Quoted from eman4277:What would you look for if all lamps on the lamp matrix are randomly going out? It happened a couple times when i turned on the game before and i would turn it off and turn it back on and it was fine. Now its happening during gameplay, and it won't come back after turning off and turning back on. It does come back after I leave it off and wait a while though. Thanks
Sounds heat related. So it could be a bad fuse, fuse holder, bridge rectifier, molex connector or a cracked header pin. When it goes out next time, leave the game on and start testing voltage at the bridge rectifier. See what you get.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:The test moves too fast for me in real time to be sure what I’m seeing/hearing.
The up/down locking button on the coin door will pause the test when you lock it in the down position and repeat the solenoid/flasher that you are on until you unlock it.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:-During a coil test, when it gets to testing A side and the C side, it looks like it might be firing the same thing regardless of which side it is on.
This sounds like the A/C relay isn't energizing which switches power to the C side solenoids.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:-About a week after getting the machine, the alphanumeric display went dark in the middle of a game.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I read that these use less power…is there a chance a power issue either fried my original or that it wasn’t getting enough power? I bring it up in case this is a clue to a power issue.
The original requires a +, -100 volts and the new one doesn't need this. This part of the power supply maybe bad but it won't affect the flashers.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:Should I be able to hear the switch or feel the vibration of the motion from the relay itself during these tests? And if I don't, should I just go ahead and order a new one? I watched a video of a guy replace one and while not super easy, I think I can pull it off.
This is all really helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to educate me!
Yes you should be able to hear and feel the relay click. Just because the relay isn't working doesn't mean the relay is bad. There is a drive circuit that powers the A/C relay and if the relay isn't working then this circuit needs to be tested.
Screenshot 2022-11-15 202118 (resized).png 1 week later
Quoted from DumbAss:Q8 (solenoid 12): this should cause the A/C select relay to energize (the Auxiliary Power board relay should "click").
Quoted from AssaultSuit:Nothing
Can you measure the voltage on the metal tab of Q-8.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:When I got home I set my DMM to DC, connected the black lead to the backbox strap and touched the read lead to the tab of Q8 while the machine was in attract mode. I got a reading of about .681
You should have gotten @ 38 volts.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I say about because before I could write it down I was alarmed to discover the machine was completely locked up. I turned it off and right back on. Alphanumeric display was flickering garbled mess. It locked back up after just a few seconds.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I am completely distraught and am terrified that I just destroyed my pinball machine.
Your voltage test didn't do anything to cause this.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I do apologize if I implied that I was given bad advice as I do no believe that at all! I am very grateful for reasoned and thoughtful help. I was imagining more that I did something wrong or maybe there was a static shock.
Nothing to apologize for, I was not sure if you knew what the reading should be.
Quoted from DumbAss:All the evidence points to the A/C relay. For grins, you can measure the resistance between the +25V source and the relay solenoid drive. This can be done by measuring resistance between 5J11-8,9,10 and either 5J2-5 or 5J6-6. I am guessing it should measure in the hundreds of Ohms range. To be sure, obviously, measure the resistance without power.
Nothing wrong with this ^^^^ at all. But I have seen resistance measure fine in circuits that have cracked solder joints. If it were me I would remove the board and inspect the header pin solder joints and the relay solder joints.
cracked pins (resized).jpgheader pins (resized).jpgQuoted from AssaultSuit:Is that caused from extreme heat?
Most likely someone over fused something, then the traces start to glow when things break.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I have decided to purchase a System 11B board from a Cyclone machine that a pinsider had listed as being reconditioned by K’s Arcade
Can you test the 5 volts and 12 volts on the power supply first.
PS #1 (resized).jpgQuoted from AssaultSuit:4.94 and 12.5 respectively
Now can you check voltage here, then start a game and watch the meter until it locks up. What are you getting?
CPUWilliamsSystem11A (resized).jpgQuoted from AssaultSuit:4.919
The crazy thing is, after 2 attempts to get a reading upon locking up...the game didnt freeze tonight! I got nothing on the top row of the alphanumeric display (so no idea what my score was) but otherwise I was able to play multiple games the same as I used to be able to.
Maybe you should disconnect the display all together, then see if it locks any more.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I should also ask, since I’ve seen conflicting recommendations, is the 8A fuse supposed to be NB or FB?
Page 40 of the manual calls out a 8 amp NB. This is a standard speed fuse and NOT a slow blow fuse.
Now onto why this fuse blew, you must have something miss wired or shorted to ground. There could be something wrong with the new board/boards.
How about posting some pics of the back box area that you were working in.
Quoted from AssaultSuit:My plan was to track down a replacement fuse locally and see if it operated as it did before but I came up short. Closest I came was a SB 8A.
Did you find any thing close like a 5 or 6 amp fuse. These will normally work but could have nuisance popping. If you have LEDs in the game you can use a 4 or 5 amp fuse.
Quoted from eman4277:the problem appears to have gotten worse, lamps stopped working completely.
This is a good thing as now it should be easy to find the problem. I have highlighted the bridge rectifier and the fuse for the lamps in question. Remove the fuse, was it tight in the holder, is it corroded, does it have continuity?
If questionable just replace it with a 8 amp normal blow fuse.
The bridge has 4 wires on it, two blue/white wires for the AC input and a violet and black output. With a DMM set to AC volts turn on the game and touch your leads to the blue/white wires at the bridge. You should read 13.5 volts AC. If you have no reading then replace the fuse. If you have a good AC reading then switch the meter to DC volts and test the black and violet wires, you should have 18 volts. If your reading is low or zero BUT you have a good input voltage then your bridge is bad. If your reading is good then you will have to look further for a bad connection. Let me know what you get.
ww (resized).pngww1 (resized).PNGQuoted from eman4277:Really appreciate the help, unfotunately (i guess? Haha) the lights started working again and haven't stopped yet. I have your reply saved for the next time it goes out. I'll let you know
When it goes out again you can also check the solder joints of this inductor on the CPU board.
18 volts (resized).PNGQuoted from AssaultSuit:When I got home I set my DMM to DC, connected the black lead to the backbox strap and touched the read lead to the tab of Q8 while the machine was in attract mode. I got a reading of about .681
I say about because before I could write it down I was alarmed to discover the machine was completely locked up. I turned it off and right back on. Alphanumeric display was flickering garbled mess. It locked back up after just a few seconds.
I unplugged the machine and let it sit for about 10-15 minutes. I plugged it back in and it looked ok for a few moments. Then the flickering display started, which transitioned into nonsense, and then the machine locked up.
It now sits, unplugged.
I am completely distraught and am terrified that I just destroyed my pinball machine.
Since you read .681 volts, which really is zero volts. This means the coil in the relay has an open in the winding. You will not see anything out of the ordinary.
For the tilt issue you need something like this. https://www.pinballlife.com/plumb-bob-with-thumb-screw.html
1 month later
Quoted from AssaultSuit:Is leaving it like it is a bad idea?
Yes, bad idea.
When you tightened the pinch bolt to hold the flipper in place, did you have any space between the bushing and the paw?
1 month later
Quoted from mrossman5:Hopefully this is the cause of the issue. Could anyone confirm where these should go?
I think you may have found your issue.
wwww (resized).PNG 2 weeks later
Quoted from trecemaneras:No, I haven't been in the backbox in a while. So that's good - looking more likely that I'm solving the correct problem and not just about to ruin a new coil.
Check the flipper coil fuses on the aux power supply, it should have burnt first.
6 months later
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Need a little bit of help on figuring out where to start on this one, and which wire is most likely to be messed up.
BLUF: Fixed single opto drop target, now the 3 bank drop target isn't registering hits. What should I check first (and how).
My 3 bank is not registering on Whirlwind. I took Whirlwind to the York show where it performed admirably, but upon returning home I realized the single drop target was not working. I eventually fixed it after some troubleshooting, but now the 3 bank is not registering hits in game or in the switch test. I have reseated the connector, but have had no success.
Now, I’m 99% sure I messed up something when I fixed the single opto drop target. The original opto board was flakey when repairing the original and I assumed it was the connection. Replacing the board didn’t work, but replacing the wires in the little connector did. It was way down at the bottom of the playfield so I had to run some extra wire to get it to work. It’ ugly under the playfield, but the single drop target now works. However, the 3 bank is no longer working. Looking at the connector on the 3 bank, it appears to have some of the same sorts of connections as the single drop target, but I’m pretty sure it’s not an issue with the board, but with the wiring going off of it to somewhere in the playfield.
I’m at a loss for the next step in troubleshooting this with a multimeter. I’m 99% sure something I did with the single drop target hosed up the 3 bank drop targets, but I’m not sure where to start. How would you test this? Any and all help and suggestions would be appreciated. I have confirmed in switch test that all of the other switches work. Its only the 3 bank.
Also… had fun batting around the powerball in there a few minutes before I figured out the 3 bank was now down.
Thank you![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Since all 3 drops stopped at the same time I would assume that there is a power issue now. Now that you worked on the single drop first I would guess that you lost the power wire at this connection. There is a grey/yellow wire (12 volts dc) and a black wire (ground) that passes thru the connector and then goes to the 3 drop connector. Check to see if one of these wires has broke off from the connector at the single drop.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:That was it! Fully working now. Just needed to know where to start
Playball!!!
Quoted from AssaultSuit:I have installed the Whirlwind 2.0 kit and it has uncovered a few issues with bulbs and switches that I hadn’t noticed before. This one is is hopefully the final.
The flasher under the million insert does not go off in the Whirlwind 1.0 game or in it’s coil test mode. I am sure that the bulb and socket are ok though because in the 2.0 game the flasher never stops flashing.
I’m still a novice at reading the manual but I think the socket is wired correctly. The wire at 5J1-5 is indeed Gry-Yel. Can anyone confirm that the socket is wired correctly?
[quoted image][quoted image]
Are the 2 wires red or orange? If orange then it's wired correctly.
3 months later
Quoted from Gunner007:Thats easy for you to say, lol
I'm new to to this but I'm going to see what I can do.
Just PM me if you need help with the wiring.
1 week later
Quoted from Gunner007:The same LED can be bright, then at times are dull depending on what they are suppose to be doing during games play.
The controlled lamps need to be NON ghosting leds. Bulbs that say 6.3 V AC are for the GI or general illumination. Bulbs that say NG are non ghosting bulbs for the computer controlled lights. You can tell the difference by a diode soldered to the lamp socket for the computer controlled lights.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Gunner007:Well my first attempt at trying to figure out what LED I needed.
So because I'm not so bright lol and really new.
These are the GI?
Its 58 to 63 for example that shine great, then during game play while say 59 is light 63 may be dim and blinking.
Or like in the second picture the large wedge lights don't even illuminate. Its just the small bayonet that light??
[quoted image][quoted image]
58-63 are the computer controlled lamps. The entire page of lamps #1 - #64 are all computer controlled 6 volt lamps and you should run non ghosting bulbs. The dim/blinking is what is known as "GHOSTING", by using a non ghosting led bulb this will stop.
The large glass wedge bulb under the play field is a #906 flash lamp, and is 12 volts not 6 volts. You don't see this bulb on until you put the game in coil test or during game play.
Quoted from Gunner007:just read this, is this still true. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else.
5.7 Flash Lamp Problems
Note: Warming boards are not shown in any of the System 11 documentation.
Note: If LED flash lamps are installed instead of incandescent lamps, the 330 ohm warming resistor must be removed from the circuit. If it's not removed the lamp will remain on, albeit not at full intensity.
This is true for older system 11 games. Your game does not have warming resistors so you can install led flasher bulbs without any other changes.
Quoted from Gunner007:I can't help but to thank you again.
So it seems as thought the bayonet bulbs in between 1-64 don't have the issue only the wedge in the twist on circuit boards? I replaced a few back to incandescent and sure enough they work fine.
Mine do not say NG unfortunatly. I will have to replace them.
As for the 12volt bulbs, thanks I ran the coil test and tada they work and 1 was just burnt out.
I am learning a lot as I go along.
The leds that do not say NG, use these for the GI in the backbox. Buy some NG type for the twist in wedge bulbs under the playfield.
Playball!!
Quoted from Gunner007:So I've checked the led are NG but yet I'm getting flickering or ghosting??
You may have a bad LED bulb.
Quoted from Gunner007:The rest of the lights work properly on this board except 1 flasher stays on??
Is it the left/right or middle?
Quoted from Gunner007:I thought that as well.
So I tried a few and swapped out for a simple diagnostic.
flasher that works in one location stays on in that one spot, while the one that stays on functions properly in another location.
the one in the pic.
The pins seem fine as well?[quoted image]
This lamp #4 is a flasher bulb location as are all the top holes. The lower holes are for GI lamps. Flasher bulbs are not non ghosting #555 6 volt leds, they are 12 volt #906 flasher bulbs like this. If you have the correct bulb installed here and it stays on, then you have a board issue.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Gunner007:I can't find anything in the manual for that board. I'll have to look again.
There isn't much about this lamp board in the manual, but I did find this.
bbbb (resized).PNGbkpb (resized).PNGbpb (resized).PNG 3 weeks later
Quoted from Gunner007:The problem was fuse F7. But I created a new issue because thats what I do.
I had to cut out the sleeve in the coil to replace it. To do that I had to de-solder the coil. While I was at it I replaced the 2 wires from the EOS to the coil.
Soldered it all back together and started up the game.
As soon as I hit the flipper I saw a flash in the Head unit.
I checked all the fuses they are OK BUT
Both left flippers do NOT work now?
You didn't solder the wires on correctly. Take a pic of both flippers so we can see what you did wrong.
And now you have a new problem, that flash you saw was the trace melting off of the back of the inner connect board. You will need to remove that board and post a pic of the back side and I can point out where you need to install a jumper.
Quoted from Gunner007:The newer looking one is the upper right flipper. The one I did.
Well the wiring looks to be connected correctly. You may have damaged one or more diodes on the flipper coil when it sparked with the soldering iron. If the diode has shorted it will draw too much current and it can damage the board traces on the inner connect board.
Remove the inner connect board and take a pic of the back side.
Quoted from Gunner007:So should I also pull the aux per board?
But I don't have illumination issues?
The one GI pin has been toasty before, BUT if you are running LEDs then don't worry about it. If you are running standard bulbs in the GI then you need to replace both the pins and the connector.
Now onto your bigger issue. You are getting closer on you schematic reading. You highlighted pin 11, but you should be looking at pin 2. You need to reverse the numbers when looking at the back of the board. Pin #2 is blue/yellow, which is the same as your flipper power wire. Now why didn't the fuse burn first instead of the trace? You should look at the fuse F-5 and F-6 on the Aux power supply board to insure that they are correct before doing anything else.
Quoted from Gunner007:Well a new experience. Pulled the Interconnect board. Your knowledge blows my mind.
Here are some pics. Yes a trace is burnt.
Its not my first rodeo! So now you found out the fuses are way to high of amperage in F-5/ F-6 (should be 2 amp), replace them with the correct size and then find a piece of 18 gauge wire to make a jumper. Clean off the burnt area with some alcohol, then remove some of the green coating from the trace on either side of the burn. Tin the trace and the ends of the jumper. Then solder in the jumper wire and reinstall the board.
Quoted from Gunner007:Then hit the right flipper and f5 blew.
This all started with me changing out the coil after it was over heating.
Now I think I've wired it wrong.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You may have damaged one or more diodes on the flipper coil when it sparked with the soldering iron. If the diode has shorted it will draw too much current and it can damage the board traces on the inner connect board.
I would have replaced all four diodes.
1 week later
Quoted from Gunner007:Thanks, I don't have the slot for T mold. But the U mold I haven't found the right size yet.
Use white pvc edge banding.
Quoted from Gunner007:I've rebuilt and now just put in all new flipper parts for the right side flipper. the ball has a hard time making the left ramp.
Run a file on the EOS switch contacts to make sure they are clean. Make sure there is enough pressure on the contacts when closed. Make sure that the contacts hit each other squarely in both axises.
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