(Topic ID: 322562)

Whirlwind burnt wire connection

By eman4277

4 days ago


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  • 29 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by eman4277
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#1 4 days ago

Hello, my Whirlwind has several lights not working including the top and right row of the backglass and the red left cellar entrance, and some maybe all flashers, haven't figured that out yet. One thing at a time. I'm trying to learn the electrical side of things so please bare with me but I followed the lights in the backglass back to this burnt out wire connection on the board, what can I do to replace this? Also are there wires missing here? Thanks for your help!

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#2 4 days ago

Pretty common issue - your GI output connector has melted after 30 years of use.

It needs:

1/ a new female connector on the wires

2/ the board removed, cleaned up properly, and a new male plug installed.

Likely when you remove the board, you might see the other plugs in that area may be the same. You can see there is some burning to the back of the board, even in that photo.

Double check the yellow Input wires to the right of that, they’re usually the ones that are burnt up.

Easy enough fix, if you’re good with a soldering iron.

rd

#3 4 days ago

That connector is likely the problem with the backglass lights, but not the others.

#4 4 days ago

The manual will show all the wires going to the connectors.

#5 4 days ago

Awesome, thanks for the advice!

#6 3 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Pretty common issue - your GI output connector has melted after 30 years of use.
It needs:
1/ a new female connector on the wires
2/ the board removed, cleaned up properly, and a new male plug installed.
Likely when you remove the board, you might see the other plugs in that area may be the same. You can see there is some burning to the back of the board, even in that photo.
Double check the yellow Input wires to the right of that, they’re usually the ones that are burnt up.
Easy enough fix, if you’re good with a soldering iron.
rd

I read about trifurcon, would this work for me? This would be the male on the board right? Is the 18-20 AWG correct? I'm not sure how to determine my wire gauge.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CT156T

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#7 3 days ago
Quoted from eman4277:

I read about trifurcon, would this work for me? This would be the male on the board right? Is the 18-20 AWG correct? I'm not sure how to determine my wire gauge.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CT156T
[quoted image][quoted image]

Personally, I stick with the standard stuff.

You’ll likely be going LED, which will ease the current draw and these will last for ever.

https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-156-idc-connectors-and-parts.html

You’ll also need a tool:

https://www.pinballlife.com/0156-396mm-idc-wire-insertion-tool.html

Buy a selection of plug sizes - 7,8,9,10,11,12,13 and you’ll be set for life.

They used to do a “ultimate molex kit” for $40 but I don’t see it listed any more.

rd

#8 3 days ago

You "could" switch to trifurcon and there are some who say you "should".
It would be slightly more work to crimp the terminals, and you would need a crimping tool.
It would make a better connection.
Rotordave is correct that for home use, original IDC connectors are probably fine.
It took YEARS of heavy use to fry that existing connector.
Opinions vary, and you can probably find a dozen arguments about it on here if you search.

#9 3 days ago
Quoted from RCA1:

It would be slightly more work to crimp the terminals, and you would need a crimping tool.

Either way, he'd need to buy a tool. The slightly longer time it would take to switch to a Molex type connector is worth it. Easier to learn crimping Molex edge connectors than it is to use an IDC insertion tool.

Quoted from eman4277:

Is the 18-20 AWG correct?

Yes. Click on the related parts link on that page for links to crimp tool and housings. Header pins on board may not need to be replaced. Remove the burnt female connector (the burnt end may fall apart) and inspect the pins on the board. Wipe pins with alcohol and if any still look dark or burnt, header pins should be replaced.

#10 3 days ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Either way, he'd need to buy a tool. The slightly longer time it would take to switch to a Molex type connector is worth it. Easier to learn crimping Molex edge connectors than it is to use an IDC insertion tool.

Can’t get easier than
- put wire in slot
- put tool on top
- whack with hand
Done!

I prefer the stock look too.

But that could just be me.

rd

#11 3 days ago

Get a good wire stripper and crimper if you are going to use molex and trifurcon. I learned the hard way.

#12 3 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Personally, I stick with the standard stuff.
You’ll likely be going LED, which will ease the current draw and these will last for ever.
https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-156-idc-connectors-and-parts.html
You’ll also need a tool:
https://www.pinballlife.com/0156-396mm-idc-wire-insertion-tool.html
Buy a selection of plug sizes - 7,8,9,10,11,12,13 and you’ll be set for life.
They used to do a “ultimate molex kit” for $40 but I don’t see it listed any more.
rd

Thanks for all the info man, much appreciated. Actually did put in LEDs already, doing some things kind of backwards but learning a lot and having fun with it

Quoted from RCA1:

You "could" switch to trifurcon and there are some who say you "should".
It would be slightly more work to crimp the terminals, and you would need a crimping tool.
It would make a better connection.
Rotordave is correct that for home use, original IDC connectors are probably fine.
It took YEARS of heavy use to fry that existing connector.
Opinions vary, and you can probably find a dozen arguments about it on here if you search.

Quoted from phishrace:

Either way, he'd need to buy a tool. The slightly longer time it would take to switch to a Molex type connector is worth it. Easier to learn crimping Molex edge connectors than it is to use an IDC insertion tool.

Yes. Click on the related parts link on that page for links to crimp tool and housings. Header pins on board may not need to be replaced. Remove the burnt female connector (the burnt end may fall apart) and inspect the pins on the board. Wipe pins with alcohol and if any still look dark or burnt, header pins should be replaced.

Quoted from sullivcd40:

Get a good wire stripper and crimper if you are going to use molex and trifurcon. I learned the hard way.

Ended up talking to Yorktown arcade supply and they're hooking me up with the stuff I need, they only do trifurcon so that made my decision. Great customer service. Thanks for the tips!

Maybe a dumb question but could I wrap the wire in electrical tape and keep playing until my stuff gets here or is there a risk of burning down the house? My dad's coming over this weekend and he really wants to play. Plus I got the playfield, plastics and ramps all cleaned up and waxed, rubbers replaced, leds... but it's just... sitting there

#13 3 days ago

What are you going to wrap? I thought it wasn't working. If you're hell bent on playing it with the burned up, non working lamps, then I suppose you could just remove the connectors to the lamps and play. If it was mine, I'd be pulling out the board and getting it cleaned up and replace the burnt headers...and wait for the new pins, connectors, and crimping tool.

#14 3 days ago
Quoted from eman4277:

Maybe a dumb question but could I wrap the wire in electrical tape and keep playing until my stuff gets here or is there a risk of burning down the house?

Yeah don’t bother doing that.

Quoted from eman4277:

My dad's coming over this weekend and he really wants to play

Tell Dad now he has a perfect excuse to come back in a couple of weeks.

rd

#15 2 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

.If it was mine, I'd be pulling out the board and getting it cleaned up and replace the burnt headers...and wait for the new pins, connectors, and crimping tool.

When you say replace the burnt headers, is that something I can do now? I still have to wait for the supplies right?

Quoted from rotordave:

Tell Dad now he has a perfect excuse to come back in a couple of weeks.
rd

He comes pretty much every other weekend to see the grandkids and watch football on the projector but damn I really wanted this thing to be ready by now haha.... did not expect all the late nights that would go into this machine

#16 2 days ago
Quoted from eman4277:

When you say replace the burnt headers, is that something I can do now? I still have to wait for the supplies right?

You need replacement header pins because the ones under the burnt connector are likely damaged. Some people say you can get away with cleaning them up or re tinning them but that seems sketchy to me. I recently had a similar issue on an early System 11 power supply board. Grumpy and rd walked me through checking voltages and repairs to make. Its detailed in the System 11 club. I ended up just buying a new power supply board from Kohout because of parts availability and the amount of soldering I was going to need to do well. I'm not great at it. I think Marco or pinball life also have them in stock for around $150.

#17 2 days ago

Do you have experience soldering (and more especially -- desoldering)? Do you have a temperature controlled soldering station?

I bought a few little kits to assemble first so I got comfortable with soldering, watched some videos, etc. There is a risk of damaging the board if you aren't experienced.

#18 2 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Do you have experience soldering (and more especially -- desoldering)?

Extremely limited, did a little work on a street fighter 2 I had like 15 years ago. Also fixed an error code my oven was throwing...lol

Quoted from dr_nybble:

Do you have a temperature controlled soldering station?

I got a 15 year old soldering iron and a 15 year old solder sucker.. sounds like I'm maybe off to Harbour freight

Quoted from dr_nybble:

I bought a few little kits to assemble first so I got comfortable with soldering, watched some videos, etc.

Kits weren't part of the plan but I'll look into it. I think I can probably figure it out with youtube ....

Quoted from dr_nybble:

There is a risk of damaging the board if you aren't experienced.

Quoted from sullivcd40:

I think Marco or pinball life also have them in stock for around $150.

Sounds like I have a backup plan lined up

#19 2 days ago

I doubt Harbor Freight has a desoldering station - let us know if you do find one there.

#21 2 days ago

I would prefer a chisel tip, (1/16TH"). It may have good temp control, but there's nothing there telling you where the temp is at - it would only be thru trial and error where you would find a preferable temp setting.

This will not remove solder, only heat it. There are a few threads here on how to solder/desolder. I think TerryB has one.

#22 2 days ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I would prefer a chisel tip, (1/16TH"). It may have good temp control, but there's nothing there telling you where the temp is at - it would only be thru trial and error where you would find a preferable temp setting.
This will not remove solder, only heat it. There are a few threads here on how to solder/desolder. I think TerryB has one.

I have the solder sucker too, ill look at the terryb thread, thanks!

#23 2 days ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I would prefer a chisel tip, (1/16TH"). It may have good temp control, but there's nothing there telling you where the temp is at - it would only be thru trial and error where you would find a preferable temp setting.
This will not remove solder, only heat it. There are a few threads here on how to solder/desolder. I think TerryB has one.

Just ordered a hakko with chisel tips. At this point it probably would've been cheaper to order a new board for 180 but you know, teach a man to fish and all that

#24 2 days ago
Quoted from eman4277:

Just ordered a hakko with chisel tips. At this point it probably would've been cheaper to order a new board for 180 but you know, teach a man to fish and all that

As long as there’s no big holes burnt in the board, it’s a relatively easy fix.

And a great repair to start with.

rd

#25 2 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

As long as there’s no big holes burnt in the board, it’s a relatively easy fix.
And a great repair to start with.
rd

I really appreciate the vote of confidence. I saw some videos and don't think it's too intimidating but let's see when I'm in there.

While I wait for my stuff I'm trying to diagnose another issue, the only lamps not working are the left cellar sign, skill shot mid, and skill shot left. These are 39, 47, and 48 on the lamp matrix. 39 and 47 are next to each other on the same row and 47 and 48 are on top of each other. The common denominator appears to be 47.. does anybody know what I should be looking for? I've tried tracing the wires beneath the playfield but I'm not seeing anything out of place

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#26 2 days ago

I’m not sure, but check the diodes- you will have to lift a leg.

You did a lamp test, I assume to find these non working lamps?

#27 2 days ago

Thanks, I'll test the diode when I get a chance

Quoted from Billc479:

You did a lamp test, I assume to find these non working lamps?

Yup, I went through them in the Single Lamps test and those were the only ones that wouldn't light.

Also went through the coils and 3 of those are not working. Been doing a lot of digging in the manual and online. I'll get there eventually

#28 2 days ago
Quoted from eman4277:

I really appreciate the vote of confidence. I saw some videos and don't think it's too intimidating but let's see when I'm in there.
While I wait for my stuff I'm trying to diagnose another issue, the only lamps not working are the left cellar sign, skill shot mid, and skill shot left. These are 39, 47, and 48 on the lamp matrix. 39 and 47 are next to each other on the same row and 47 and 48 are on top of each other. The common denominator appears to be 47.. does anybody know what I should be looking for? I've tried tracing the wires beneath the playfield but I'm not seeing anything out of place
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Where does the yellow wire go? Looks like there is no connection to the other sockets in this photo.

You’ll probably find one end of it has broken off somewhere.

rd

AC29AF88-36AD-40F9-BA15-480BAC230ABA (resized).jpeg
#29 1 day ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Where does the yellow wire go? Looks like there is no connection to the other sockets in this photo.
You’ll probably find one end of it has broken off somewhere.
rd[quoted image]

Oh man you're a genius! Thank you so much. I completely missed that. Connecting it there brought back 47 and 48 which narrows my investigation down for the left cellar sign. Thank you!

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