(Topic ID: 157731)

Whirlwind BackPlastic GI not turning on


By Pmaino

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 45 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jhanley
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Hey all.

I'm having an issue with my back plastic GI by the back of the playfield. All other GI works on the game. The back GI is off normally before the plunge and once the ball hits a switch the upper GI on the playfield turns on( I believe this is when the BackPlastic GI should turn on as well). The flashers on this section works perfectly.

I checked all fuses and they are working. Any suggestions here? I was reading something about a relay that can go bad which causes this problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pete

#2 3 years ago

There's a relay that operates that during the storm at start up.If you lift the playfield up it's a little square board on the very bottom about 2 inches square. It has a little box relay on it that's white.That's probably the one that's giving you trouble.I think Marco has them for sale.The part number is 5768-12221-00.It did the same thing on my WW.

#3 3 years ago

Ok ill take a look at that tonight when I get home. How would I go about testing it to make sure that really is the issue?

#4 3 years ago

I don't know how you would test it but I've had this issue on my WW and ES with this board.They have them at MAD Amusements for $20 part #C11902.It's a common occurrence with this board if the back GI doesn't turn on after the storm at start.

#5 3 years ago

That is if the bulbs are OK.

#6 3 years ago

All new LED bulbs were put in so I can rule that out.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

All new LED bulbs were put in so I can rule that out.

Did it work prior with regular bulbs?

#8 3 years ago

No it didn't work with the original bulbs.

I just ordered the new relay so hopefully that will fix the problem. Will update once I get they installed later this week.

#9 3 years ago

When you turn the machine on the left and right corner lights and the light directly across from the left corner should be on.When you plunge the ball they turn off and the flasher bar above the playfield lights flash .Then the back GI lights come back on.These GI lights are controlled through the relay I was talking about.Are the corner lights ever on?

#10 3 years ago

In my experience when those back panels don't light it's usually the Male pins on the board itself. Right where the connector hooks on. Just reflow the male pins with fresh solder and reconnect. The relay connector is common too as jhanley points out but it controls more than back panel. Todd

#11 3 years ago

@Jhanley - I believe the machine operates that way. Let me check when I get home to confirm.

@Lostlumberjacks - are you talking about reflowing solder on the male connection at the relay board or the actual board with the lights?

#12 3 years ago

Actually theirs 4 lights that are turned off and on from that relay board. The other is right in back of the single drop target with the tornado on it.

#13 3 years ago

Not sure on that game, but most that use a relay board usually have a 2nd one somewhere for another purpuse. One trick is to swap the relay board with another to confirm/isolate the problem.

Relay boards are nothing but a relay which is a low failure item, and a connector which is a high failure item. So like Lost said, check/reflow is a good start prior to purchasing a new one.

#14 3 years ago

WW only has one. There was a spare board in my ES so I swapped it in and it's been working for years now.Maybe I'll check the pins on the old one.

#15 3 years ago

I believe there are actually two relays. There is one all the way at the bottom of the playfield and another one on the left next to the hinge. See attached picture. Does anyone know what this one does?

I already purchased a new one but will try swaping it out tonight.

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#16 3 years ago

Sorry'I never noticed that one .That's a good idea to swap them .Are all 4 lights in the back off all the time?I looked on mine and they are all on a parallel circuit with each other.

#17 3 years ago

I was just tracing that other relay out.It turns the lower GI off and on at different times, notably the slings.

#18 3 years ago

The GI lights on the back of the playfield turn on and off like they should. The GI on the back plastic under the flashers never turn on. The flashers work perfectly.

#19 3 years ago

I thought you meant the GI lights in the back of the playfield.My bad.You mean the lightning strip above the playfield GI?

#20 3 years ago

Yes the Lightning strip GI does not turn on.

#21 3 years ago

I had similar lighting problems at the rear of the game and it was the main connector coming off of the transformer. It is the first main connector (4 yellow wires?) off of the transformer. It had one pin connection that was burnt.

Alan

#22 3 years ago

I would remove the Lightning assembly with board ,a screw on each end and unplug it. You will see a purple and white with purple tracer and test if theirs 25 v there.If there is its probably a loose solder connection on the board.I'll buy that relay from you .I could use a spare.

#23 3 years ago

Ok two questions.

1. How do I test the voltage with my multimeter it's been awhile. Do I turn the machine on and stick the red lead into the socket with a wire and then touch the black lead to a ground? If there is proper voltage I should see 25v's on both the purple/white and purple connections?

2. I'm trying to trace back the purple/white and purple wire to the board so I can test continuity. Having trouble doing that. Do you know where these two wires connect into the back box?

#24 3 years ago

The white wire with the purple trace is the ground.The solid purple wire is positive.See if you have 25V there.The GI lights on the playfield should all be on when you test.Im going to have to trace it on my machine cause I'm not sure where it gets power.

#25 3 years ago

Ok so I should stick the black lead into the purple/white and the red into the purple and see if I get 25v?

#27 3 years ago

The leads on the multimeter might be to thick.You might have to poke them on the backside of the connector to make contact on the sockets.

#28 3 years ago

Ok I did that and get no reading. Assuming I am doing that right I need to find out where the purple wire connects to the backbox and test for continuity? If I have continuity then it could be the connector on the board?

#29 3 years ago

It's possible. Somehow that row of lights is connected to that relay I was referring to.When the lights in the back of the playfield go on those lights go on at the same time.Did you try poking the leads in the back of the connector like I said?

#30 3 years ago

Are these flashers or GI? If flashers, then 12vdc, if GI then 6.3VAC. And if GI you would go one lead each side of the input, not 1 lead to ground.

And trust me you do not want to shove meter leads into a socket. It is like playing the game of Operation, except instead of a buzzer when you slip, you can mess up your lamp matrix drivers. Been there, got a couple t-shirts.

#31 3 years ago

Yes. Here is what I'm doing.

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#32 3 years ago

Those are GI .

Quoted from Patofnaud:Are these flashers or GI? If flashers, then 12vdc, if GI then 6.3VAC. And if GI you would go one lead each side of the input, not 1 lead to ground.
And trust me you do not want to shove meter leads into a socket. It is like playing the game of Operation, except instead of a buzzer when you slip, you can mess up your lamp matrix drivers. Been there, got a couple t-shirts.

You are right.This is beyond me as I thought he had the same problem that I fixed with a new relay.If theres no power there were he's showing then I have no idea but to trace the wires back to the source.You know more abut this than me.I give.

#33 3 years ago

Thanks for the help thus far jhanley.

Does anyone know where this wire traces back to the backbox or what's the next step here in figuring out why no power is getting through to this wire? I have no other issues with my GI except for this area.

#34 3 years ago

Manual should show the location in the BB, I would say it is an issue with the interconnect pcb,, lose wire on connector, cold solder joint or fuse.

#35 3 years ago

Also keep in mind that GI has 4 to 6 'strings' and each is protected by a separate fuse on the PPB. Make sure that it is not something as simple as a single blown fuse.

#36 3 years ago

I actually have a new interconnect board and will swap that out to see if it helps. I replaced all fuses that I had but needed to order a few new ones that I didn't have on hand. will swap those out. Will report back after I swap the ICB and replace all fuses.

Is there anyway to check on the manual which fuse would be responsible for that part of the GI?

#37 3 years ago

I know whats wrong.I traced it out.So easy to fix!

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from jhanley:

I know whats wrong.I traced it out.So easy to fix!

Grats! Now to figure out Pmaino...

Pmaino, the fuses will be in the manual on Page 40 of http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2765/Williams_1990_Whirlwind_Operations_Manual_Br_With_Schematics.pdf

To figure out which one is which,,, Page 96, Backbox Interconnect Board. Probably F5.

WilliamsSys11Fuse_(resized).PNG

#39 3 years ago

I t has nothing to do with fuses

#40 3 years ago

Ok you got me confused with these short posts.

Are you saying Pmaino's problem is not fuses? And you figured it out? Can you share?

Or are you saying the problem YOU had was not fuses

Need some context here.

#41 3 years ago

I traced it out on my WW.The GI in the light bar is connected parallel with the GI on the back of the playfield which is connected to the relay I was talking about. Theirs a 2 prong molex connecter in between the head and the cabinet .I called the OP and he said he could see there were wires pulled out of the connector.All he has to do is reconnect them and BOOM it will work.What was weird when I first looked at the wires coming up and going down was they were the same colors but different gauges of wire.They change at the connector.

#42 3 years ago

Ahh gottcha..

So it was an interconnector issue. Good catch.

#43 3 years ago

I will take a look into this when I get home tonight and fill you all in. Thanks for all the responses.

#44 3 years ago

Jhanley was right. See the picture below. The wires purple/white and purple connect at a Molex. What was confusing is that the gauge of wire is different in each end. I found the other end bundled and disconnected from the Molex inside all the other wires. Took me about 10 minutes to find it and redo the Molex connections.

Thanks for all the help on this one guys. I'm sure I will have a few more questions to come as I start to do my PF swap!

Pete

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#45 3 years ago

Your welcome

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