Not as much recently. The new GOT code adds a lot for the upper playfield. It is very well done.

The optimist in me wants to believe it happens in that order. But man, the pessimist in me wonders how often the LE/Premium features are an afterthought to justify an upsell.

Borg is the only designer that had said he designs for the Pro first, then adds for the Premium. Ritchie and Elwin have said they design for Premium first, then take away for Pro.

AC/DC, GB, Maiden , Munsters, premium all day for me at least in my collection .

I have a Walking Dead pro and have never played a premium to compare it to.

I've never had a single problem with the hammer on my MET Premium either.

I absolutley LOVE the physical hammer/ball lock action too - one of the coolest toys in pinball IMHO!

The hammer isn't the main thing that makes the Prem better, it's the locking snake jaw that can hold a ball. The Pro can't do that.

GoT was marginally better with the Premium with the older code, but now with the new code, Premium's the only way to go on GoT.

Pro all the way for AC/DC, the lower playfield is just a gigantic timewaster.

Pro too for TWD - the magnets are a LOT more unfair on the LE and the left ramp less reliable.

Pro- met, sw, Aerosmith, Munster, bk
Preumium- jp, gb , got

Im certainly NO expert, but I do own Metallica Pro and have played LE MANY times. I would never pay extra for premium toys, they just arent impressive to me, and actually find the hammer a bit of an annoyance for a tall guy. Blocks a huge part of the table.

Again, im a noob to pinball and this is just my opinion

As an operator and collector for me it depends on value that premium provides over pro and/or how long I intend to keep.

Must have premium / LE

- Star Trek (light show is awesome, metal ramps nice, extra toys, powder coat)
- Star Wars - hyperloop, exploding Death Star
- GB - ramps, magma slings, hologram (but pro does well)

Pro fine
- Kiss - GI and love gun magnet are nice, but don’t add a ton to game play
- TWD - crossbow doesn’t add much to game play, raising ramps for bicycle girl less smooth than pro
- Iron Maiden - I don’t think extra features add enough to be worth it
- Aerosmith - upper Playfield kinda meh

Other games like Munsters, Ac/Dc, GOt, black Knight, seems empty without additional Playfield but have not spent enough time on both models to make a judgement.

For the arcade we buy About 50% premium and at home I steer more toward premium, but if I find good value on pro or won’t have long, I’m ok with a pro too.

I like mini PF on AcDc but it could use more rules to make it more compelling to play.

BKSOR - Pro
Star Wars - LE

Met Pro certainly does have a setting to hold a ball in the Snake's jaw.

I never saw the appeal of the jaw going up 3 freckles if an inch. Looks sorta ugly to me.

I wish

Already have a RIPPER

The deciding factor for me on both MET Premium and TWD Premium was the light show. Red inserts all day was a big turnoff. I modified the left ramp on TWD with washers to align the rising flap with the ramp and it shoots great (on location too).

I think the IMDN art package and flow is much better on the Pro.

DP Pro was a location decision, didn't see the value going for a Premium.

Xmen Magneto is another great theme for me as well, the rules are not that hard to learn and it's packed with shots. The art package is great as well...IMHO.

My .02

LE games:
- Avengers
- Metallica
- Black Knight
- Walking Dead
- Ghostbusters
- AC/DC

Not sure if there’s any one game I can say that the pro is the much better game. Maybe Aerosmith because the upper playfield doesn’t do much

Absolutely baffled as to why someone would prefer GB prem over pro.

Pro:
Real Slings.

Prem:
Magna Slings that sometimes throw the ball SDTM on purpose.

Pro:
Transformers
TWD
Aerosmith
I like the flow of these vs the premium.

Tron: Both are great but modded pro is fine for me

All others: premium/le

I bought Metallica Premium - reason: physical ball lock & colour changing GI lightshow.
I bought KISS Premium - reason: physical ball lock & colour changing GI lightshow.
I bought Maiden Premium - reason: physical ball lock & colour changing GI lightshow.
I love both of these add ons and that's the reason I prefer Prmium over Pro for these.

I also had ACDC PRO and then went Premium because it has a significant better lightshow than the Pro. Mainly because of the colour changing GI again but also the lit up train and the lit up flames on the right ramp.

Light show is my main factor when it comes to choose between Pro or Premium. And if the ball lock is physical I go that direction too. I find it way more satisfying to lock that ball physically rather than virtual.

I would have expected operators to HATE the AC/DC lower playfield - it's a no-risk guaranteed extension of minimum ball times, particularly if the player picks the Hell songs for precisely that reason.

Holding a ball (Pro) isn't the same as locking a ball and rejecting any other balls because the jaw has raised up (Prem/LE). Also, the lack of a spinner on the pro is a massive scoring loss in certain situations. It's been a while since we've had one on the route I help with, but I remember that standing out.

GB Pro feels crappy and cheap. The ramp feels cheap and sucks (and is only 1 ramp instead of 2 on the Prem), slimer is stupid up/down only like a fishing bob that also blocks the view to Gozer instead of sweeping left right and up down, the saucer is inferior to the scoop on the Prem.

GB Premium also has a physical ball lock, with the ramp going under the playfield and back up.

The experience of the pro is no way better. The Experience of TWD premium destroys the pro because of the light show alone! It makes you feel like you are actually freaking out escaping zombies and are going to die lol. Had both at home, the pro doesn't compare. That alone is worth the difference in price on such a panic inducing pin. Sure the crossbow and ramp migh annoy people, but just disable them in the settings then. The left ramp with the stern fix is fine, but the spinners , the drop target, and walker bombs add so much.

GB prem/LE
MET prem
TWD Prem
DP LE
IMDN Pro. If I liked the music maybe I would've spent the extra coin.

I don't think any pro is "truly" better than any premium. Pro is just a better value in some cases where premium features don't add much to gameplay.

I'm surprised at all of the hatred over the crossbow on TWD. My guess is that people are just not skilled or familiar with using it. I think it's a good toy and I'm just as accurate using it than I am with the flipper. It has a better range of motion and has more shots available than most other games with cannon shots (T2, ACDC, Dirty Harry, STTNG). I know I'm in the minority but I enjoy using the crossbow vs. just shooting the shots with the flippers.

I also like the Bicycle Girl bash toy, especially with the Gnassel lighting mod. Yes, it makes the game more difficult but it also changes the layout/flow of the game to make it more interesting rather than just repeating a ramp shot. I did change the settings on my game so that Bicycle Girl isn't lit at game start just because I feel the mode is a bit overused in the game.

I do enjoy playing TWD Pro but it just feels so stripped down compared to the Premium/LE. It doesn't even have things like spinners or color changing inserts which are commonplace on later Pro machines.

Our local club has a GB Pro and a Premium. While I do think the premium is better in every way than the pro... the magna-slings are just a terrible and frustrating addition and completely ruin the game imo. For casual play I suppose they can be a bit of a laugh but the game is already tough enough without the random SDTM nonsense that the magna-slings bring. Or when they randomly decide not to fire like a traditional sling would.

Other than that I'm the type that prefers Premium in pretty much any situation where I would have a choice.

I’m in the minority here, but I really like the manga slings on GB premium. It’s innovation, it’s different. And it goes with the theme: ghosts messing with the ball. Pretty cool in my book. Just saying

Besides GB premium/LE is one of the most loaded Sterns ever

I think a good hypothetical would be: if you were at an arcade and they had brand new copies of a game in both LE and Pro trim levels (at 3 plays for $2), which games would you skip over the LE and put all your plays on the Pro? This takes the financial (bang for the buck) argument out of it.

In almost all cases, if someone were to offer me a free upgrade from pro to premium, I'm taking the upgrade.

Keyword: almost.

That's the point of this thread. Some premium upgrades make it worse.

I wish they did a hybrid AC/DC with drop targets but no lower playfield

Star trek is incredible LE.
Ghostbusters is better as Pro.

For me, I find my criteria changes from game to game and I'm a living contradiction, LOL. For the most part, if shots change (for the better), I want it. This is generally added flow (DP) or a different ball path (Avengers). However, while I'm a big flow fan, I am also a sucker for cool gimmicks, and I am sometimes willing to sacrifice a little flow for a cool enough gimmick (X-Men Nightcrawlers).

I'm only going to talk about the ones where there is more than just artwork differences.

Avatar: Mostly eye candy additions, but some pretty nice ones. Love the Banshee on the ramp. Navi ball adds an interesting twist, but not earth shattering. Pro makes more sense here, but if the price difference isn't much, LE is nice.

Rolling Stones: Honestly not sure what was changed here. Powerball again I think and a player controlled ball save I think? I can't judge this one since I've never played an LE and only played a pro a few times long ago.

Tron: If it wasn't for the huge price, the LE would be the way to go with the extra multiball. That said, the pro can be modded to add the eye candy.

Transformers: I've gone back and forth on this one since it's been on and off my wishlist from day one. Pro has great flow, but LE adds some interesting extras. Love Starscream. Mixed feelings on Ironhide...it kills the flow of the right ramp, but it is weird and different...which I like. I enjoy it the few times I get to play one, but it might get old fast at home. Megatron drop target is a shame they so sloppily cut into the artwork, but it's a nice feature. The controlled gates are probably the clincher for the LE for me since both orbits can now flow rather than stopping in the pops every time. Can see pros/cons for both on this one, but if I ever get one it will likely be LE.

AC/DC: As much as I do not especially like the lower playfield, the other features, especially the bell and extra ramp path, add up to make the prem/LE worth it.

X-Men: I'm 100% LE on this one. I can see why some prefer the pro and it's extra flow, but for me the LE has some of the best gimmicks in pinball. The spinning disc/magnet combo is so much fun and adds a lot of chaos, which I love in a game. I love the Nightcrawlers...they are used just enough in my opinion. You get to see them, but not so often they get annoying blocking the ramps. The moving ramp is the weakest addition, but I personally like it. It certainly adds another layer of challenge to not shoot the ramp when you know it's going to move. I totally get why some people hate this though. And last but not least, the color changing GI adds a ton to the atmosphere of this game, making almost every mode feel truly unique. I love this game so much, but am not sure I'd feel the same about the pro. LE all the way.

Avengers: Definitely LE here too. The Hawkeye ramp adds a different ball path, and it can even be player controllable if set right. I believe the Captain America shot has a different gate as well to allow more flow at times. The lifting Widow ramp is very cool and makes Hulk multiball feel extra special. And again, the color changing GI adds a lot of atmosphere. Great LE.

Metallica: This is one where gameplay is basically the same, but the gimmicks really add up if you are into that sort of thing. I had a pro for a couple years and enjoyed it. It was time to move it on, but if I ever do decide to pick up another, it will likely be a prem/LE. Yes, the additions are just eye-candy, but they are all pretty cool. If just looking for gameplay though, the pro is the way to go.

Star Trek: Nearly the same answer as Metallica. I have owned and sold both a premium and a pro. Gameplay is very close, although I will say the far left mode start scoop is much nicer on the prem/LE feeding to the flipper rather than the random kick-out. I found my pro kick-out to screw me over fairly often, and was not able to adjust it out. Other than that, play is all the same. They eye candy is really nice though. The biggest thing I missed by downgrading was the Klingon multiball laser starfield. It sounds cheesy, but that really added to the atmosphere and made that mode special. Without it, it's just another "shoot everything" multiball. Full RGB inserts are nice, but the pro still has that in the main shot indicators. Crashing ship is ok. Warp ramp sparkle and chase lights is really nice. I liked the premium red armor very much, but the art left a lot to be desired. If I ever get another one, I wouldn't mind moving up to the LE. Truly one of the most special LEs ever made. Sure, gameplay is basically the same, but there is no denying the beauty of the aesthetic upgrades on that one. Like Metallica, if you just want gameplay, stick with the pro.

Mustang: Mustang is a strange one. The turntable is the biggest change, and that is a cool gimmick, adding a timing element to collecting MUSTANG letters. That said, Mustang multiball is a nearly meaningless mode, and lies outside of any of the other goals in the game. It's an odd mode to build a large gimmick around. Other than that, a couple drop targets randomly thrown in seem odd, and the power shifts just give a free shot which really isn't needed (other than Cruisin' 2...I wouldn't mind a free shot at those quick moving roving shots...damn that mode!). There is also an extra ramp diverter, which I would usually really like, but it's completely redundant in this game since the shot can go around to the right flipper anyway...you are only avoiding the "whirlpool" bowl, which the ball doesn't spend that much time in anyway. Very odd addition. Also the artwork keeps me in on the pro on this one too. The theme is a large part about why I love this game...it has a lot of family nostalgia for me. The pro best represents all eras and styles, and I am very partial to the '70 Mach 1 on the cabinet as I owned a '69 for many years. Yes, I also love Bosses, but I do not like how the premium focuses only on those when there are so many other great Mustangs left out. In this case, the extra gimmicks are interesting, but not enough. Pro for me here.

Walking Dead: I owned a pro for a couple years, without having played the prem/LE (other than one very quick game on a very poorly set-up one at Expo). Never thought the additions were worthwhile, or worth losing the flow of the pro. Then I finally got to put a few plays on a very nicely set up premium. I was wrong. This is a case where, yes, the additions kill a little bit of flow, but they are cool enough to be worth it. I really like the bicycle girl. On the pro it was just different music and extra points, but other than that really nothing special. Opening up a different shot on the premium makes it way more special...much like the Nightcrawlers on XM. I'm not usually a cannon guy, but the crossbow isn't used all that much, and this one has more of a range of motion and feels much cooler to use than any other cannon I have used (and I've owned STTNG). Like I mentioned earlier, I enjoy chaos in a game, so the Well Walker magnet is a welcome addition and makes bashing stinky way more fun. And again like XM...the color changing GI is great. I managed to get to Horde on the premium I played, and the machine going red was freaking wicked. If I were to ever get another TWD, I would definitely want to go for a premium, or even better LE with that awesome artwork.

WWE: Not sure I have ever played an LE on this one. I actually like this game quite a bit, and as a rasslin' fan from way back, I would love an LE just based on the art package and addition of the legends. The added features seem like a mixed bag. Not really sure the ring needs any more chaos, LOL. Can't really judge the gameplay differences yet though.

Kiss: I do not have a ton of experience with this one to judge. My friend has owned both, and honestly I didn't see much of a difference. I think the only real changes are the demon ball lock is virtual, and no levitating ball trick on the pro. Those are alright, but probably not worth the upgrade to me.

Game of Thrones: Oh GoT...how I love thee. I personally prefer the pro, with it's extra flow, clear paths, and more thematic shots. That said, the prem/LE is also an amazing machine. The upper playfield is one of my favorite secondary playfields. I just really hate how it blocks view and changes the flow. That really makes me torn. It is a great addition, but unfortunately at the sacrifice of too much else that I love. The full RGB lighting does look amazing, but like ST, the main shot indicators remain RGB on the pro, so you do not lose functionality. The smooth dragon wing flapping is nice, but repositioning it makes Targaryen starting and the dragon battle shots less thematic. For me, the pro is the winner, but if the prem/LE was the only choice, I would still own one and be very happy. I am happy to have a pro, and have easy access to multiple LEs to play. Best of both worlds that way!

Ghostbusters: Umm. Yeah. They are both Ghostbusters..and not my favorite. That said I do find the prem/LE slightly more interesting. I like the extra Slimer movement and the magnaslings are weird in a (mostly) good way. That extra ramp shot return is a good addition. While GB is definitely not on my radar, if it was I think I would want the extras from both a gameplay and a cool gimmick standpoint.

Aerosmith: Only played a quick game or two on a premium, so again not enough to really judge. That said, I found the "upper playfield" strange and unsatisfying. I can't see getting anything other than the pro on this one.

Star Wars: I own a pro and am 100% satisfied with it. I've played a few games on a premium, and have no urge to upgrade. The hyperloop is kind of neat, but I do not like how it looks hanging above the flippers, and I do not like that it makes an already hard shot even harder. The breaking Death Star is pretty lame honestly. The ball save gate is completely useless as a new ball is served into the shooter lane on the pro just as fast as the ball would get there on the premium. And in my opinion the pro has the better art to boot. I can see why some prefer the prem/LE, and would never fault them for it, but for me, the pro rules.

Guardians of the Galaxy: I've only played the prem/LE once, but the extra magnet didn't seem to do anything that the single in the pro couldn't do. The opening orb is nice eye candy. Groot arms are a mixed bag. They look fantastic, but for me they hurt visibility a bit. Couldn't even see the spinner under the arms, so that didn't add anything for me. Full RGBs is nice, but didn't seem to be that big of an impact here. For me, I would definitely go pro. Gameplay is exactly the same, and the gimmicks just do not add all that much here.

Iron Maiden: I haven't played a prem/LE, so I really can't judge. The opening center ramp sounds very interesting as I find that shot kind of boring on the pro. The other ball locks sound pretty cool too. I believe this is one where the gameplay is very similar, but the gimmicks do sound interesting. This one isn't really on my radar yet, but if it ever was I would definitely want to check out a prem/LE before deciding.

Deadpool: I am currently in the process of upgrading mine. I LOVED my pro. I admit, the additions on the prem/LE are probably not really worth the money, but I found myself wanting them anyway. I mostly need the flow of the disco ramp. I am usually a big flow guy, and while I love DP...it is definitely not a flow game. The premium will help get a little bit of flow in there at least, and for my tastes, that will be great. I am also a sucker for cool lighting, and am really looking forward to that mirror ball. Cheesy? Yup...but I'm going to love it. Extra drops and molded figures/truck are a nice bonus. I also really love the cab art on the premium and it might be a little thing, but the left ramp wireform being red looks really nice. I fully admit, the pro is probably the smarter choice on this one, but I'm upgrading anyway and can't wait!

Munsters: Only played a handful of each version at MGC this year. If I were buying one, it would definitely be a premium. I really liked what the lower playfield added, and the B&W art is jaw dropping. Need to play this one, in any incarnation, more.

Black Knight:SOR: For me, pro all the way. The upper playfield just doesn't do it for me here. There just isn't much to do up there, and it isn't satisfying to shoot. To me trying to hit catapult locks just distracts from the rest of the game. If you are concentrating on that, you aren't hitting mode shots, and that is where the fun is. The pro ramp is buttery smooth, and comboing into the shield lock with a backhand feels so damn good. The pro is more in your face and brutal, and that is what this game is all about. If the prem/LE was the only option, I would still happily own one, but I vastly prefer the pro here. I just wish they would map the catapult lock to a different shot (left orbit up kicker would work nicely) on the pro so we wouldn't lose that mode. This game is a lot like GoT, where they very much feel like two completely different games, and some will prefer one while some prefer the other.

Jurassic Park: Too early to tell, as I haven't played either. This appears to be one where gameplay will be essentially the same, but the gimmicks will really add to the experience. My early preference is the prem/LE. The ball eating/flinging dino is pretty awesome, and I think the raptor pen is going to be a really cool addition, especially how it can turn into a "dirty pool" captive ball. That is good stuff. Can't wait to play either of these!

on one hand I like the bicycle girl bash target. On the other hand, I'm not sure a game needs 3 bash toys.

some good points Jedi. AC/DC premium was preferred over pro by many because it didn’t contain the Angus face. Stern recognized and corrected the issue by relaunching pros with new art and without the Angus. Swinging bell and lower playfield are good to have with the premium

Bicycle girl is only a part time bash toy, similar to the trolls in MM or Hobbit. I wouldn't want it to be active any more than it is already, but it's a pretty cool state changing toy that temporarily changes the layout of the game.

Yes, just acquired an AC/DC pro vault. Would never have the original pro in my house only because of that annoying glaring mug.

If Stern plastered Gary Stern's face in the middle of every JP, would you buy it?

LE
Munster
Black Knight
ACDC

PRO
BSOR
Munster ( Same terrible game without Lower Playfield )

Love my GOTG Premium with Mod but reluctantly would say GOTG