(Topic ID: 47734)

Which pinball company will get my business and why


By heckheck

7 years ago



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  • 57 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by heckheck
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    There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 years ago

    Honest discussion here not looking for trolling (though I'm sure it will come).

    For me the whole Stern LE thing with limited availability has turned me off. I was somewhat off Stern already (full disclosure) on the price hikes they put into effect to my eye without improving quality (and to my eye under cover of JJP intro price to market with an upscale product).

    This whole scarcity thing however rubs me completely the wrong way. I was going to look for a Star Trek LE, but I really don't want to play in this sandbox. Instead I would like to send a message and not give Stern my business and buy exclusively JJP. Of course I do want to buy machines I like so the decision is a tough one.

    Jim

    #2 7 years ago

    Whats wrong with a premium? it's not like it is LE or Pro anymore.

    #3 7 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Whats wrong with a premium? it's not like it is LE or Pro anymore.

    Exaaactly. Why do people keep forgetting the PREMIUM! This worked out so beautifully for AC/DC and EVERYONE is happy with their AC/DC Premiums! There is no scarcity of the full featured game!

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Honest discussion here not looking for trolling (though I'm sure it will come).
    For me the whole Stern LE thing with limited availability has turned me off. I was somewhat off Stern already (full disclosure) on the price hikes they put into effect to my eye without improving quality (and to my eye under cover of JJP intro price to market with an upscale product).
    This whole scarcity thing however rubs me completely the wrong way. I was going to look for a Star Trek LE, but I really don't want to play in this sandbox. Instead I would like to send a message and not give Stern my business and buy exclusively JJP. Of course I do want to buy machines I like so the decision is a tough one.
    Jim

    I guess your 19th pin won't be a stern, huh?

    #5 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    the whole Stern LE thing with limited availability has turned me off.

    ....
    Instead I would like to send a message and not give Stern my business and buy exclusively JJP.
    Jim

    You don't like "limited availability" so your moving from Stern to JJP?????

    mmmmkay.

    That'll show 'em!

    #6 7 years ago

    Welcome to Pinside!
    Rinse, Lather, Repeat how much you hate pricing (threads).

    13
    #7 7 years ago

    What are you buying from JJP, exactly? Air? Time? Or you want to give an interest free loan?

    Next thread.....

    #8 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Of course I do want to buy machines I like so the decision is a tough one.

    What decision ? Your whole post only mentions Stern. You left out Canasta, JJP, JPop, Ben Heck, Spooky, P3, Heighway, Predator, etc. etc.

    So Stern it is. Get a new Stern pin you like and enjoy it.

    LTG : )

    #9 7 years ago

    So you want to commit to buying exclusively with a company that hasn't shipped one game to a customer yet? Good luck with that. Buy a Premium and quit whining! Geeesh!

    #10 7 years ago

    Stern is the only company actually producing games right now so sounds like an easy decision.

    #11 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Instead I would like to send a message and not give Stern my business and buy exclusively JJP

    Good luck buying one game every 7 years haha..

    LE is limited edition...so not everyone gets one...it's L I M I T E D

    #12 7 years ago

    Why does JJP get all this praise for doing things right when they have continuously flat out lied about their product. In no other business/hobby/situation do I think a company would still have a reputation after all they've been through. They've not even released a product yet so how can you evaluate them at all?

    #13 7 years ago

    pointless thread is pointless. You have no choice if you want a new pin. stern or nobody. i'll change my tune when woz starts shipping.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinmanguy:

    Why does JJP get all this praise for doing things right when they have continuously flat out lied about their product. In no other business/hobby/situation do I think a company would still have a reputation after all they've been through. They've not even released a product yet so how can you evaluate them at all?

    SLIGHT double standard...

    A few people will get "stuck" with premiums instead of LE's and there's a huge thread where the lawyers are contemplating a breech of contract suit against Stern.

    JJP takes full payment, promised delivery dates come and go, and same said lawyers are singing kumbaya....

    #15 7 years ago

    Stern and JJP will both get my business and possible multimorphic.

    I like pinball!

    #16 7 years ago

    This thread was created for trolling.

    #17 7 years ago

    In the Land of the Blind the One-Eyed Man is King.Guess which Pinball company that is ?

    #18 7 years ago

    I am going to say it , some of you WOZ guys are very strange !

    #19 7 years ago

    No I don't like the LE scarcity BS. Yes I do have a vote with my money. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion at all. Stern is certainly pissing off some people (maybe lots of them). If they think that's in the best interests of their company more power to them. Not trolling that is truly what I believe. I thought I'd start this thread to voice my opinions. I really don't care much what others think about them but it is interesting to read some of the replies.

    Also for the record no WOZ for me (but I am in for The Hobbit)

    #20 7 years ago

    Good. The more of you that refuse to buy the LE from stern, the easier it is for the rest to grab them.

    I really don't see the issue anyway. The LE has a plaque and a signature on the playfield. They continue the line without these things, for a few hundred less, and call it a premium. And people are up in arms? Everyone's a victim. Geez so dumb.

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    No I don't like the LE scarcity BS. Yes I do have a vote with my money. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion at all. Stern is certainly pissing off some people (maybe lots of them). If they think that's in the best interests of their company more power to them. Not trolling that is truly what I believe. I thought I'd start this thread to voice my opinions. I really don't care much what others think about them but it is interesting to read some of the replies.
    Also for the record no WOZ for me (but I am in for The Hobbit)

    How many new machines have you purchased so far and what was your experience with each company?

    #22 7 years ago

    I don't care about the LE, Pro or Premium. I just hate that each game is taking up 2 or 3 spots on the top 100. Plenty of great games are getting pushed off the list.

    #23 7 years ago

    For what little it is worth: I will be so glad when WOZ starts shipping if only so that I don't have to read one more post about JJP not having actually produced/sold/shipped anything, which is the standard counter or deflection whenever someone compares Stern unfavorably to JJP.

    For the record, I am grateful for the existence of both companies and will buy from both, while recognizing that both have made some serious mistakes.

    #24 7 years ago

    well i think pins should be free, work perfectly and be liked by everyone. they should manufacture as many as they need to satisfy all. that would be utopia. and there aint no such thing. so the next best thing is free enterprise, free markets, and being free to choose. if too many people think the new pins are too expensive they wont by them. if people want them and can afford them, they will. why does this same thread continue to pop up.? be done with it. market will set the freakin price.period.

    #25 7 years ago

    What does it say if we are Woz AND AC/DC guys?....hehe

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    What decision ? Your whole post only mentions Stern. You left out Canasta, JJP, JPop, Ben Heck, Spooky, P3, Heighway, Predator, etc. etc.
    So Stern it is. Get a new Stern pin you like and enjoy it.
    LTG : )

    Dont forget about the kids in the basement.

    #27 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballmike217:

    How many new machines have you purchased so far and what was your experience with each company?

    2 nib Sterns LOTR and TSPP. Stern was a different company in my eyes back then today is pretty much two or more iterations of the company philosophy later. Didn't have a real problem with Stern per se back when I bought from them but I don't have much good to say about either of the Stern distributors I dealt with. One was a big one that did little to support the sale other than collect some distributor profit. The other sold me some parts which I had to chase them for literally 2 years for them to make good on (not delivered no communication for months at a time, a horror story). I don't have more recent personal experience with Stern but as you know I know lots of recent Stern buyers so I'm not completely out of the loop.

    1 game from JJP on order. Experience great so far for me but there is a lengthy road ahead I admit. I hope it stays great but time will tell. I admit faith is required, and that's not for everyone.

    Jim

    #28 7 years ago

    As long as pins are being produced and I like the themes....I'll buy from anyone and enjoy my games. Though I wish I had a signed SWDE.....

    #29 7 years ago

    The only one's getting my money are other collectors.

    #30 7 years ago

    Right now it is Stern only for me. They have the best designers by miles and miles in Ritchie and Borg. I would have considered a JJP while Nordman was still on the payroll, but he is gone and did not get to design a game. Hopefully Nordman gets picked back up by Stern to fill Gomez slot.

    As for the LE, Premium and Pro thing, I personally love it. LE is just that: LIMITED. If you don't get one I don't want to hear bitching as long as there is a Premium available with all the same playfield features. Stern was failing and on the brink of ruin before this system came into place. Would you rather they just stayed the course and went belly up? JJP is not a reasonable substitute either. They are a boutique company that will be lucky to produce one game a year if they don't go belly up.

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Right now it is Stern only for me. They have the best designers by miles and miles in Ritchie and Borg. I would have considered a JJP while Nordman was still on the payroll, but he is gone and did not get to design a game. Hopefully Nordman gets picked back up by Stern to fill Gomez slot.
    As for the LE, Premium and Pro thing, I personally love it. LE is just that: LIMITED. If you don't get one I don't want to hear bitching as long as there is a Premium available with all the same playfield features. Stern was failing and on the brink of ruin before this system came into place. Would you rather they just stayed the course and went belly up?

    Really well stated up to this point. 100% agree. In fact, strongly agree with these points.

    Quoted from John_I:

    JJP is not a reasonable substitute either. They are a boutique company that will be lucky to produce one game a year if they don't go belly up.

    Disagree with this.

    #32 7 years ago

    I'll buy from the one that makes pins I want to buy.

    #33 7 years ago

    It is a lot better to buy from the factory than a distributor like Automated Services. Stern should show some loyalty and sell to its customers not just to the distributors .Hmmm maybe that will help keep prices down and a better relationship with the customer.

    #34 7 years ago

    I actually feel for Stern. They make too many Avengers LE and they sit. They don't make enough Tron LE's or Metallica LE's and people are pissed. At least we have a Premium offer for Metallica.
    How can they really know how many to make ahead of time without saturating the market and making LE's less valuable? I'm fine as long as there is always a premium offer. I want the full game and don't care about limited numbers and collectibility. That's why AC/DC is doing so well IMO.

    Kevin

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    What decision ? Your whole post only mentions Stern. You left out Canasta, JJP, JPop, Ben Heck, Spooky, P3, Heighway, Predator, etc. etc.
    So Stern it is. Get a new Stern pin you like and enjoy it.
    LTG : )

    Well, only Stern is making pins. I haven't seen a pin being produced by those guys yet.

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    I was somewhat off Stern already

    No worries, Ill spend my $ with them, I like games that actually can be delivered to my house now. I honestly hope your guy's WOZ's get to you before Star Trek is ready for delivery.

    #37 7 years ago

    Hey, any of you guys have a spare Duff beer can mod for TSPP? Thanks.

    #38 7 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    I am going to say it , some of you WOZ guys are very strange !

    *I am going to say it, some of you Pinball collector guys are very strange !

    #39 7 years ago
    Quoted from jrivelli:

    Well, only Stern is making pins. I haven't seen a pin being produced by those guys yet.

    This can't be true.

    #40 7 years ago

    It's funny, it doesn't have to be us or them kind of thing, but for some reason there are a lot of people who seem to think it does.

    I'm a supporter of JJP for a couple of reasons, but mostly because they are trying to push pinball ahead in a new direction, something I wasn't seeing from Stern, and since I can't afford to buy everything NIB that comes out, my $$ is tied up in WOZ and The Hobbit. Doesn't mean I will never buy something that Stern puts out in the future, but it will almost certainly be in the secondary market after I've played it. In fact, I'm still very much on the fence about TH, but I'll stay the course until I see or hear something about it that I don't like.

    I really wish though, that every thread about Stern or JJP, didn't have to degenerate into what seems to happen every time, bashing of the other company. It's OK to prefer one company over another, but there just seems to be way too much open hostility and trolling.

    #41 7 years ago

    I think it's time Williams / Bally get back in the business...

    #42 7 years ago
    Quoted from sterlingpinball:

    It is a lot better to buy from the factory than a distributor like Automated Services. Stern should show some loyalty and sell to its customers not just to the distributors .Hmmm maybe that will help keep prices down and a better relationship with the customer.

    there are real good reasons why manufacturers don't sell "direct to the public" and instead go through distributors (none of them unique to pinball, fwiw)... starting with (but by no means ending at) the requirement to have a sales and support staff... dealing with thousands of individual customers (rather than a couple dozen or so distributors) is a massively different kettle of fish...

    it's not a viable business model...

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    there are real good reasons why manufacturers don't sell "direct to the public" and instead go through distributors (none of them unique to pinball, fwiw)...

    .....
    it's not a viable business model...

    Yup... those idiots at Apple don't know what the f%^#$ they're doing!

    just kidding.... you're right, distribution is the right channel for many manufacturers, but SOME find way to sell without it....

    Distributors and resellers also flourish where there is some value-add that they provide. However, I suspect when folks see that they make a purchase, pay a dist cash, then their machine is drop-shipped right from stern- they might not be seeing that value-add...

    Perhaps Stern could mix the sales model:
    LE preorders done completely via website (no HUGE sales team needed) direct from factory
    All other models (including LE's) still avail via distributors....

    Frankly though, the METLE drama notwithstanding, the current model doesnt seem broken- not sure they are interested in fixing it.

    JJP selling direct could change the landscape a bit, but we;ll have to wait and see on that front...

    #44 7 years ago

    ^^^

    obviously, there are exceptions...

    completely different business though... not to mention different business philosophy...

    neither of which is applicable to stern... those clamoring for them to sell direct might get a significant sticker shock if stern had to increase their employee costs by a million dollars or so (likely more) a year...

    #45 7 years ago
    Quoted from IceCreamMan:

    I think it's time Williams / Bally get back in the business...

    And start making Pinball 2000's? No thanks.

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    No I don't like the LE scarcity BS. Yes I do have a vote with my money. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion at all. Stern is certainly pissing off some people (maybe lots of them). If they think that's in the best interests of their company more power to them. Not trolling that is truly what I believe. I thought I'd start this thread to voice my opinions. I really don't care much what others think about them but it is interesting to read some of the replies.
    Also for the record no WOZ for me (but I am in for The Hobbit)

    So are you in for The Hobbit LE? Or just the regular one since you don't like the LE scarcity BS?

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from jarjarisgod:

    I'll buy from the one that makes pins I want to buy.

    Me too.

    #48 7 years ago

    ^^^

    Me three.

    #49 7 years ago
    Quoted from krupa:

    So are you in for The Hobbit LE? Or just the regular one since you don't like the LE scarcity BS?

    An LE. I wouldn't call the THLE scarce at 1500. I'd be fine if they ran more too. I want the extras the LE offers. I don't get hung up on having something only a few have. Other people seem to relish it. To each their own but it does impact me at Stern when I can't get the art or the features I prefer. Stern makes it especially irksome when they reserve modes or other gameplay affecting features (e.g. daft multiball on TRONLE) that's the beef I have.

    #50 7 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Stern makes it especially irksome when they reserve modes or other gameplay affecting features (e.g. daft multiball on TRONLE) that's the beef I have.

    I do agree with this. But as long as Stern runs premiums for the games that sell out of LEs I don't have a problem with it.

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