(Topic ID: 116557)

Which of the better em titles are hard to find for you......and easy

By hoov

9 years ago


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    There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 9 years ago

    What's really hard for me... is finding them in the kind of 'condition' I want.

    And even though they'll NEVER be as good as 'I' want... you have to be realistic too.

    If I were to wait for them to be in that kind of condition... I wouldn't own a single game!!

    #102 9 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballprowess:

    What's really hard for me... is finding them in the kind of 'condition' I want.
    And even though they'll NEVER be as good as 'I' want... you have to be realistic too.
    If I were to wait for them to be in that kind of condition... I wouldn't own a single game!!

    when i started, i wasn't too picky about condition*... i could (and do) live with weathered cabs, pf wear, cupped inserts, etc. i just wanted games to play... and the more games, the better...

    now that i am "full", and have been in the hobby for a few years, i've narrowed down the list of machines i "really want", and am now willing to pay the premium for nice condition ones if i come across one on that list...

    * other than bg's... i will put a 300 dollar bg in a 300 dollar machine...

    #103 9 years ago

    I didn't start collecting until last year... and never buy any that I won't take to the absolute pristine maximum. I don't care about resale value or what it costs to get them perfect. That's just how it has to be.

    Owning and playing a sparkling, snappy, better-than-new EM is always worth the cost IMHO.

    #104 9 years ago

    I'm in your camp NicoVolta. I've been collecting three years. Every game I now buy is going to be restored to the max. Resale value is of no concern and cost is whatever it takes for it to be perfect. Recently restored a couple of sentimental games from my youth, a Williams Aztec and Bally Ro Go. Just did them for me. Currently working on a Gottlieb Sweet Hearts, Bowling Queen and Jumping Jack. Cabinet repaint, inside and out, HSA restored playfields, all metal chromed, new legs, plastic kits, backglasses and 100% mechanics. Like you said, that's just how it has to be! Next in line will be a Gottlieb Lucky Hand and Pro Pool.

    #105 9 years ago

    I am in the same camp as Nico and dave58. Maybe not in their league regarding restore but close.

    I don't think a pristine example of the games I want will every darken my doorway without help. So restore is the way to go. Never been a better time.

    So who has a Kings and Queens that needs some serious love with a reasonable price tag?

    Steve J.

    #106 9 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    when i started, i wasn't too picky about condition*... i could (and do) live with weathered cabs, pf wear, cupped inserts, etc. i just wanted games to play... and the more games, the better...
    now that i am "full", and have been in the hobby for a few years, i've narrowed down the list of machines i "really want", and am now willing to pay the premium for nice condition ones if i come across one on that list...
    * other than bg's... i will put a 300 dollar bg in a 300 dollar machine...

    I think people are better off not being like me.

    Sometimes being too picky is a pain in the neck... even to yourself!

    #107 9 years ago

    Pinball is a dopamine feedback loop from the initial press of the start button to everything which follows. It sets in motion all manner of clicks and clacks and things which pave the road for your endorphin fix. That's why bells and chimes are used. They generate elemental tones which are sweet to the ear and can thus be heard again and again without tiring of them. Especially because they are triggered semi-randomly by YOU... feeding the stimulation loop on a deeper level.

    That's why pinball works best when the condition is "minty"... because pinball isn't merely a game of racking up points. It is a complete sensory experience... challenge, entertainment, and pleasure. When every light is brilliant, every surface gleams, and every mechanism snappy, you are then receiving maximum pleasure for your time. Since time is our most finite and precious resource... best to spend it well, eh?

    I strongly advise pinball hoarders with storage units full of unfinished/broken games to practice the 50/50 rule: Sell half and use the money to get the other half up to 100%. Also saves $$$ on storage.

    Minty = less is more!

    #108 9 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Pinball is a dopamine feedback loop from the initial press of the start button to everything which follows. It sets in motion all manner of clicks and clacks and things which pave the road for your endorphin fix. That's why bells and chimes are used. They generate elemental tones which are sweet to the ear and can thus be heard again and again without tiring of them. Especially because they are triggered semi-randomly by YOU... feeding the stimulation loop on a deeper level.
    That's why pinball works best when the condition is "minty"... because pinball isn't merely a game of racking up points. It is a complete sensory experience... challenge, entertainment, and pleasure. When every light is brilliant, every surface gleams, and every mechanism snappy, you are then receiving maximum pleasure for your time. Since time is our most finite and precious resource... best to spend it well, eh?
    I strongly advise pinball hoarders with storage units full of unfinished/broken games to practice the 50/50 rule: Sell half and use the money to get the other half up to 100%. Also saves $$$ on storage.
    Minty = less is more!

    Don't get me wrong, if you guys want to take it that far... you're my heroes!

    I just can't stand to look at ratty games, what a turn off.

    But a game restored to what's being described here now... I take my hat off to ya!!

    #109 9 years ago

    I will quietly continue to try and save as many "nice" originals from the clutches of over-restoration as possible...

    With the availability of repro backglasses, playfields, legs, coin doors, plastics, etc, etc., you guys can just build new games, right? That's not so much restoration at that point as a new build anyway.

    Viva patina!

    #110 9 years ago

    i wish i had the:

    - skill
    and
    - patience

    to do the type of work that guys like steve and nico (as well as others) do by taking a beat up machine and making it "whole" again... i applaud them...

    while technically i could learn the "skill" part, the "patience" part will likely never happen... i've been restoring the same damn machine for almost two years now...

    don't get me wrong... i would love to have all "nice" machines... but to me, having machines period was the first step...

    #111 9 years ago

    I guess its each to their own but to me a machine which has been restored to the position where 'not a hair is out of place' and probably more new than when it came out of the factory just lacks the presence of a used machine in original condition.

    #112 9 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    while technically i could learn the "skill" part, the "patience" part will likely never happen...

    I'm in this camp right now. I might venture into a cabinet repaint down the road.

    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    I will quietly continue to try and save as many "nice" originals from the clutches of over-restoration as possible...

    I'm with you, Dirt. Maybe it's the examples that come my way. I don't see the dried out exposure in Kansas City and Michigan that I've seen in games from TX.

    #113 9 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    I will quietly continue to try and save as many "nice" originals from the clutches of over-restoration as possible...
    With the availability of repro backglasses, playfields, legs, coin doors, plastics, etc, etc., you guys can just build new games, right? That's not so much restoration at that point as a new build anyway.
    Viva patina!

    That's a good point.

    The only people I know who do that... are the 'retailers' who will take a game (doesn't matter if it is in pristine original condition or not) and repaint and rechrome everything on it. Really a shame when this is done. And that is in order to get the big bucks they are trying to get out of a machine.

    But when a game has dilapidated paint and is in poor condition... quite a different matter.

    #114 9 years ago

    Rechroming/replating metals looks niiiiiiiice! Even something as simple as installing a new set of shiny acorn nuts can deliver a noticeable new level of bling.

    #115 9 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    I will quietly continue to try and save as many "nice" originals from the clutches of over-restoration as possible...

    ...

    Viva patina!

    the "best" way, as i have come to learn... took me awhile, but i learned...

    no shortage of patina here... shortage of paint where there should be paint in some cases, but certainly no shortage of patina...

    even if the pf is worn down to the wood in a few places, and the cabinet is gouged and beaten, games can still be made to play well and still be plenty of fun...

    #116 9 years ago
    Quoted from MikeO:

    I'm in this camp right now. I might venture into a cabinet repaint down the road.

    I'm with you, Dirt. Maybe it's the examples that come my way. I don't see the dried out exposure in Kansas City and Michigan that I've seen in games from TX.

    if i need a cabinet repaint, it literally will be down the road, as i'll bring it to boilerman to do it for me...

    he did my magic city cab for me (it had SERIOUS dandruff, more wood than paint), and it looks just like it should... since there is ZERO chance of me replicating the quality of his work, i wouldn't even consider trying... hell, it is all i can do to paint a wall...

    #117 9 years ago
    Quoted from DirtFlipper:

    I will quietly continue to try and save as many "nice" originals from the clutches of over-restoration as possible...
    With the availability of repro backglasses, playfields, legs, coin doors, plastics, etc, etc., you guys can just build new games, right? That's not so much restoration at that point as a new build anyway.
    Viva patina!

    I used to heavily re-chrome 60's games etc etc but more recently have gotten into 50's woodrails in a big way. I really try and find really nice original games with no touch up's at all and I now leave them like this. Still clean, wax until it shines and clean, clean, clean but I love 50's originality.

    Trouble is these games are hard enough to find as it is. Even harder with above criteria.

    I do have a 60's Nick Raschilla restoration that looks like NIB but I have decided original in great condition is my preference.

    #118 9 years ago

    It would be cool to reproduce some of the older games as accurately and artfully as possible using new technology while also adding a handful of clever upgrades.

    For example, my custom Flipper Fair backglass has a TILT illumination on both elephants and no "previous high score" window... but you'd never have noticed otherwise. I like stealthy upgrades. Like installing LED's in places which look better than bulbs. (Comet's twin 2835 SMD frosted warm white is my default go-to for general backglass illumination)

    I can imagine new production versions of games like Space Mission with some sampled Apollo mission chatter and vintage beeps and such. Done right, it would be a true "classic plus", but it is difficult to build upon the past in a way which honors the original essence while adding new features that don't disrupt the balance of the game itself.

    Can it be done? You betcha! But, even if the technical and design challenges are overcome, doing it with an acceptable profit margin while staying on the right side of copyright law isn't likely. Retro Pinball's KOD machine was a good example of that... heart in the right place... but not quite able to hit enough bulls eyes to sustain the project.

    #119 9 years ago

    For games that are keepers, I don't care about cab condition. That's the easiest thing to restore to like new condition if desired. I also don't care how much parts cost in relation to what I paid for the game. Again, if it's staying in my collection then the parts prices don't have anything to do with game price.
    That said, I suppose my preference would be for original condition in very nice shape over restored.
    I restored my Diamond Jack (except for backglass) and installed an NOS playfield. The original had probably 35% of its ink missing and massive planking. It clearly got played an incredible amount and I added a ton more plays on top of that. So if there ever was a resto candidate it was this one. Oddly and unexpectedly now that the game looks like a million bucks, I still have that fondness for the well played condition I received it in.

    #120 9 years ago

    I have been fortunate to see first hand some of Rods smashing collection of pristine 'original' Gottliebs. If I had his 20 years in the hobby, his contacts and his knowledge maybe a game such as his may darken my door. Its not going to happen however.

    Its his fault folks that I know what an original game in pristine condition looks like!

    I am currently happy to take a well used worn game and give it a proper make over. Over restoration how do you do that? is it chrome what else?

    Another thought; if you clean, replate with similar finish and fix all the missing or broken parts and getting the game to work properly again, is it now as new?

    #121 9 years ago

    I can understand both sides. I have more original condition games than ones I've restored. However, the titles I want are sometimes difficult to find in a condition I want to put into the collection. So, if I can find the titles in any condition and put life back in them, I don't feel the need to apologize for that.

    #122 9 years ago

    Yeah that's my problem. I never find pristine originals. When you happen to find one in perfect condition it is an astonishing thing to behold... but more often than not the average machine is in serious need of rescue and restoration.

    #123 9 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    It would be cool to reproduce some of the older games as accurately and artfully as possible using new technology while also adding a handful of clever upgrades.
    For example, my custom Flipper Fair backglass has a TILT illumination on both elephants and no "previous high score" window... but you'd never have noticed otherwise. I like stealthy upgrades. Like installing LED's in places which look better than bulbs. (Comet's twin 2835 SMD frosted warm white is my default go-to for general backglass illumination)
    I can imagine new production versions of games like Space Mission with some sampled Apollo mission chatter and vintage beeps and such. Done right, it would be a true "classic plus", but it is difficult to build upon the past in a way which honors the original essence while adding new features that don't disrupt the balance of the game itself.
    Can it be done? You betcha! But, even if the technical and design challenges are overcome, doing it with an acceptable profit margin while staying on the right side of copyright law isn't likely. Retro Pinball's KOD machine was a good example of that... heart in the right place... but not quite able to hit enough bulls eyes to sustain the project.

    Entirely possible to add sound bites to older games, I found this guy's approach to replacing the 8-track sounds in an EM gun game interesting!
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-the-8-track-player-in-midway-haunted-house-with-a-sound-card

    #124 9 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    if you clean, replate with similar finish and fix all the missing or broken parts and getting the game to work properly again, is it now as new?

    Can be, you bet. Certainly close enough, and not 'over done'. You do fine work, Steve, carry on!

    1 week later
    #125 9 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Yeah that's my problem. I never find pristine originals. When you happen to find one in perfect condition it is an astonishing thing to behold... but more often than not the average machine is in serious need of rescue and restoration.

    You can find them left and right. (Or at least I can) Just not around Texas. You just have to close your eyes and make the plunge of spending that extra 400 dollars to have a game shipped. I have done it 4 times now and have no regrets. If I had more money to spare on pinballs right now then there would be about 4 or 5 more machines in either original or nicely restored condition that would be in my collection right now. None of them near Texas. All of them 1000-1500 miles away on both coasts. Anyone have about 8-10k they can spare? LOL

    #126 9 years ago

    When I lived in the South which was about half the total time I've been collecting, any EM title was hard to find. I had to ship every pin I owned but in doing so managed to get a couple of really nice examples and more importantly the exact titles I wanted.
    Out here in the West coast the EM scene is significantly better and I've picked up a few titles within a couple hours driving. Being able to see the machine in person is great of course but shipping will always be a necessary evil for me. It's the only way to get the games I really want.

    There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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