Stocks, would be foolish otherwise.

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I think this is a trick question.... I have seen the For Sale threads here and I am pretty sure Pinball is People's stock portfolio

I opened an IRA at 20 years old. What do you think?

Eh, only had a portfolio for 2 years and pretty sure its already exceeded my machines just too lazy to check.

If you want to be able to retire comfortably. At a MINIMUM (and I say minimum) you should save 5% of your pay (gross). I'm not talking take home pay, I am talking gross pay.

So if your yearly salary is $50k you should save $2500 a year (minimum). That's really low imo so I'd actually recommend 10-20% but I'm a big saver.

It's a catch 22 or a difficult pickle, because the less you make the harder it is to save. Someone making mid-6 figures could easily save $100k while some making $50k might have difficulty saving $5k.

I buy an $8000 NIB every year for my 5%.

Has anyone ever dabbled on the Hollywood Stock Exchange? It's basically a site that allows you to invest fictional money on upcoming movies and actors/actresses. You can build a portfolio and invest just like in the real stock market. There's even a ticker and symbols for the various movies, actors, etc.

http://www.hsx.com/

Since pinball as an investment is always a hot topic around here, maybe it's time someone combine their love of investing and pinball and create the Pinball Stock Exchange (PSX.com). You could invest in machines or in your favorite designers, artists, or even your favorite fellow Pinsiders. I'm kidding about all this of course

Depends on your company.

I put in 6%. Companies matches that at 150%. So for my 6 they put in 9. Then twice a year they pay in 2.5 percent as a bonus of sorts.

Then there is of course your HSA which can also act as savings in a sense though they are still taxable income after you are 65.

Wish I could say I had more savings after this, but aside from having money to cover job loss it doesn't make sense now. Student loans need to be paid off. Then at some point saving for a house.

Adulthood is fun!

I'm 41 ... I opened an IRA at age 25, but I made mistakes throughout my 30s ... nothing that will cripple me in retirement unless the shit hits the fan so to speak, but they were dumb mistakes .

My advice to any youngsters out there that *really* want to enjoy a kick ass collection of pins at a relatively early retirement age :

1> Open an IRA as soon as possible regardless of age. Even putting in something like a couple hundred a year will make a substantial impact later in life. Believe me, you'll be 41 before you know it . I expect to be in my 60s next Wednesday at this rate .

2> Make it an early goal to contribute the max. federal limit into your IRA. This is currently $17.5K/year + another $5.5K in a personal retirement account. Obviously, this would be very difficult to do when you're starting out in the "real world" . However, the earlier you boost your IRA, the larger the payoff later. Think "Early risks, big rewards later ... in the Twilight Zone" .

3> Certainly chase your dreams. However, don't let these dreams distract you from retirement planning. I work in the tech industry and have dabbled in startups. Some don't have 401K plans in the incubation stage and I didn't contribute to an IRA a couple of years throughout my 30s (that was stupid on my part ... actually, more like laziness).

4> Buying a house ... When you hit 20% of a down payment on a home, buy then. Do NOT get suckered into buying a house with lower than a 20% down payment (I didn't do this ... you get raped with additional crap you have to buy). Also, with interest rates as low as they are, do NOT pay more than 20% on your down payment (I did do this ... it was STUPID in hind sight). You are FAR better off investing any savings than you are pouring cash into your house. Your house will appreciate in value slowly (on average) than something like an index fund. This advice only applies to low interest rate environments like right now. If they skyrocket, then you need to need to take a longer look at the numbers to figure out what makes the most sense.

5> If you've been delaying boosting your retirement accounts for whatever reason, don't beat yourself up and think that you'll be doomed. Just start now. Forget the past and focus on what you can do now. You'll be amazed how quickly things can turn around. There will be bumps in the road, but those bumps will level themselves out.

6> Don't let money rot in a savings account. You aren't getting a return. You do want to keep "F-you" money handy for job changes or disasters, but you really want that cash to grow. Find yourself a nice index fund.

7> If you don't have the time to follow individual stocks, DO NOT INVEST IN THEM. I design FPGAs for a living. I know the industry pretty well. Those are the only investments I make in individual stocks. The rest I decided to use various mutual funds ... it's easier for me that way. I'll let the experts determine what's going to happen . If you're one of those experts and know companies well, then by all means buy individual stocks ... if you're like me and don't have the time to research them, take advantage of the various funds out there.

8> Don't buy into the "all debt is bad" mantra. Yes, credit card debt (and similar) are HORRIBLE and you should avoid that at all costs. Mortgages aren't though in a low interest rate environment. As far as credit cards are concerned, you can rack up a lot of nice bonuses using them for all of your purchases and paying them off at the end of the month.

That's just some of my advice . An expert financial planner might disagree with some things I posted ... take that for what its worth.

As far as pinball machines being a replacement for a stock portfolio ... no, don't think that way. I've done OK in the pinball world I guess since a bulk of my collection was purchased in the late 1990s. However, collectibles are a finicky thing. One minute, for whatever reason, a game like Lady Luck can be in high demand and you'd get silly money for it since the community all of the sudden deemed it to be a great game. Months later, you might be sitting on one thinking it's a silly money game when in fact it's not worth much since the fad passed . I've seen it time and time again.

Just enjoy a hobby and try and forget about value until it comes time to sell/trade a game. Obviously this doesn't apply to people that make a living selling pinball machines to buyers .

One of my fears of a pinball machine as a "long term investment" is that the generation that's about 10 years old right now not really liking the game. When they hit their 30s and start to have buying power as I enter the retirement years, will they be interested in any of my games, or will they look at them as worthless, primitive relics ... nobody knows! I'll weep for them if they think that way about pinball, but that's not going to buy me any security .

Mmm......right now I'm a little head of the pinball collection. It will stay ahead, because I have pension, and a 401k with company match. I really only check the stats on my 401k about once a month, otherwise it would drive me nuts. Company pays into my pension at a flat rate based on my payscale and how many hours I work.

Have about 20k in those two accounts. Not as much as I'd like, really. We are getting to the point paying down debts where I am going to finally be able to start cranking more money into the 401k and taking money out of shareholders hands, which is fine by me. We have gone back to a HSA instead of a FSA for medical accounts, because I'm pretty sure that I can put in enough to roll some over year to year right now, and that will be *massive* for us, because we have like a 2600 yearly deductible..ridiculous. I'm also considering myself pretty lucky because right now I have about 15k in equity in my condo...I've just lived there so long and the ARM I have is rate-increase restricted so it can only increase by so much a year.. all of my deferred interest from the early years is gone, and now I'm just building more equity every 2 weeks on it..it's a nice feeling.

I don't really consider a pinball machine as investment into anything else other than pinball. Selling STTNG and Jackbot was the first time we've specifically sold games and knew up front that the vast amount of the money was going into non-pinball stuff. Paid off my car, paying for our yearly vacation, and for some major dental work.. do I regret selling games to do that? Hell no. Will I rely on the games I have to pay for retirement...um.....hell no.

no comment...

Way more in stock\401k\ESOP\IRA(s)

I was obviously just kidding earlier. I have way more saved in 401k and investments than what my small pinball machine collection is worth.

I don't even consider the machines as investments unless I have to justify a purchase with the wife.

For those folks with all their loot tucked away safely in IRAs and 401k, have your investments returned to pre-2008 levels?

When that crash hits next time, and it hits worse, how will you access your money without huge penalties, if it's even left when it does?

Yes, and then some. They aren't "realized" losses until you actually take your money out of the security. The recession can be a benefit to those that were able to continue to invest because it means more shares being purchased at lower prices. Now that prices have come back up that means your 401k really takes off with the extra purchased shares.

If another crash hits you're supposed to have a savings account to tap into if need be. If you are older then you are already supposed to have most of your 401k switched over to bonds and other fixed interest securities. The worst thing you could have done was sell low back in 2009. You were much better off staying put and waiting it out.

Stocks!

My stocks are worth a good deal more than my pins

If I didn't have a retirement savings, I wouldn't have pins.

THE most important thing you can do is save for retirement. That, and own a dog.

Keeping money in stocks is not fun. Pinball is.

But...your avatar!

Good question. Since I haven't checked in a while, I just checked this afternoon following your post.

Not only has the total value returned to pre-2008 levels, but it has handily exceeded those levels. I hesitate to post this, because it might seem like bragging, but the current value of my portfolio is 2.2x higher than my pre-crash peak (Aug 2007), and 3.7x higher than my post-crash low (Oct 2008). The post crash years have been very good to me!

Oh, I have three of them around too. Love the posse of "hounds" I have. (3 cats and a yorkie)

Agreed. I was only a few years into a career when things tanked so I didn't really have much built up prior to that. My 401k is enjoying those years now because of everything bought then. My company stock fund, shares bought really cheap. All the other funds, again, shares bought a lot lower than they are now. Ups and downs happen, but the key is to build up when things are looking bad. Now if the pin market would let me build up a little.

I would think that most people's investments have bounced back and then some! As of last week, the U.S. is experiencing the 3rd longest Bull market in history...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/06/investing/stocks-market-3rd-longest-us-bull-market/

Every good investor was smart enough to toss in plenty of money at the lows and continue to put more in each year on the way up to benefit from dollar cost averaging. So yes I am well beyond my 2008 levels. The only investor that would not be would be sitting fine……is one that put all his money in 2007 and never added another dime…..and thats not investing, thats just stupid.

I would also add, I didn't cash out in '08 so i never recognized a gain, nor did I lose anything. The money that was in an IRA in '08 was 15 years of investing and 1/3 of it was company match. So I put a heck of a lot less money into the market and my investment was nowhere near the high in '08. The key is managing risk, not trying to get the high, you don't know the high until it over.

I have 2 accounts, account one is for long term investments, IE buy when the market dips and hold the investments, also some regular investing each month. Account 2 is day trading, that account it set up for me to buy when the timing is right and sell at what I see as the potential high, using options, and in some cases shorting the market in the event of a down trend. I also trade commodities.

Way higher. Diversification helps.

I am lucky I am in a state with a good teacher retirement system. I pay 15% and the school matches that. It really isn't the same as some of the other investments, but it ends up being pretty nice in the long run and lets me retire when I am in my early 50's. Of course I should be adding to it with other investments, but as they say, pins are a lot more fun

I have doubts that even my 401k will be safe in the future currently.

damn pinballs!

It's pretty stunning, when I look at the chart, especially considering that half of my portfolio is still in cash ($ values redacted for privacy)...

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I pick my own stocks, try to buy low (or short high), and target holding for the long term. If one turns south, I quickly cut my losses, but I usually let the winners run unless something fundamental changes within the company. Percentage gains among my current holdings are: (1) up 392%, (2) up 186%, (3) up 146%, (4) up 139%, (5) up 136%, (6) up 74%, (7) up 61%, and (8) up 41%. Every one of those positions I've held for multiple years.

Yep, I'm up a lot too. Probably going to move some back to bonds because I'm on the way short right now on that side of things, and I really don't want to wait for the next 9/11 or housing crisis to set me back another couple of years. I've already handily survived both of those by being too young and having the time to play the waiting game, but would rather save some of those gains while I can...I'm only 6% bonds and the rest stocks right now so probably a good time to balance things out a bit..

Most should be up well above 2008 levels. With new additions, I'm probably double the 08 peak since new additions at bargain prices as well as the strong recovery the only way for anyone not to be above the 08 levels would to have gotten out at the basement.. In the long run from capital appreciations and dividends Stocks are a proven means of wealth creation.

Stocks give dividends, even when stocks have down years they are still returning around 2-3% a year, and if the value of the stocks goes down the dividends usually stay the same 'cash value' so in actuality the percentage goes up. I have some stocks that have paid for themselves (ie. I have got more dividends in the past 9-10 years than I paid for the stocks to begin with and I still own the stock. So it's like buying a money printing machine.).

Also, investors should have both stocks and bonds. If Stocks get clobbered like they did in 08-09 the Bonds seem to be more stable or keep their value (may even go up as people flee from scary stocks to safe bonds) and bonds all the while give interest. I know it's not sexy interest but as you accumulate bonds and stocks, the dividends and interest begin to add up and snowball. What might start out as an insignificant amount of interest and dividends over many years begins to amount to a lot of money.

Stock market corrections or crashes are inevitable and some may say healthy, just like you need to prune a bush to get it to grow stronger, or get rid of the dead branches. Plus crashes represent THE BEST buying opportunities. Some of the best buys are when you almost feel sick buying them because everyone else is scared.

I know, to some people Bonds is a bad word, but in actuality they are as important as Stocks, and unlike Stocks, they can't go to zero (well I mean high quality bonds like US bonds as well as high rated corporate bond (I'm talking bond funds because obviously 'Ernon' a single company can go under).

The US had NEVER defaulted on a bond (and I don't think they ever will) they have the ability to raise taxes as well as heck just print money, so there is really no reason for the US ever to default. The only risk is inflation, but as far as going to zero, Bonds practically fail proof.

drain

Any pinsiders invest in real estate rentals?

I paid my way through college and grad school on single family houses. I called it the slow flip where I would buy a crappy house and fix it up for 3 years and then rent for 2 and sell to avoid capital gains on primary residence (have to live in it for 3 out of last 5 years of ownership). I then sold those houses over the past few years while putting my wife through professional school.

She is nearing completion and hopefully returning to gainful employment in a few months, which means I am starting to research future investments. I would to stay in real estate as I like the material asset and also the possibility to draw an active income off the investments.

I am only familiar with managing single family and am contemplating either smaller business real estate or maybe a 4-8 unit building for my next jump.

If anyone has any insight or real life experience and is willing to talk, please let me know.

I have a year or so before being ready to jump but am starting to research options more at this stage.

the Caddy, parked in the driveway....

Being broke during retirement and living of SS is less fun.

Save Lots & Live Under Your Means!

if you put it in "jpop" stock, I say you are working till you 100.

I invest in trucks!

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I think as long as you buy low in a decent neighborhood and are willing to put in "sweat equity" and avoid capital gains I think real estate is a great investment.-especially in Dane County. I would just try to be wary of new construction and try to avoid buying right next to any large new developments. I heard Veridian is building a new 1000 family development not too far from you. New homes have also been going in like crazy next to where I live which would affect me if I were to sell in the near future.

Yeah, I know all the basics. Just was hoping to talk to someone that has been down th path of single family to multiple unit rentals or light business rentals and maybe hear about what they have learned along the way.
Where is the 1000 unit going? That is crazy big!!!

Between Lien and Burke Rd. Big development for Madison! Hard to say at this point if it would help/hurt your current home's value?

http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/after-a-decade-major-housing-development-with-man-made-lake/article_ffe994dc-13c4-5529-9d71-ebc1ee428fc4.html

I wondered if that was ever going to pick up steam again. That will likely have minimal impact on my current home either way, but may impact (more steer) where I buy rental property. Similar to stocks I always suggest buying what you know in real eastate so I will likely focus closer to my current home. I am also focused around the rebuilding on 51 and all interchanges which will impact how the city grows for the next 10 years on the eastside.

If you only hold stocks that are up, of course the stocks you're holding now are doing well.

If you're trying to say anything meaningful about how you've fared in investing, you should pretty much only be quoting your annualized return and the annualized return of the S&P (or some other index) for the same period.

We lost a TON of money on our last house, but we've made up for it in recent years through gains in our retirement investments. I expect to retire within ten years, and I am finally feeling secure about that eventuality. Barring some catastrophe, we should be in good shape.

We've also set up a separate investment account into which we automatically transfer a substantial sum each month. That will allow us to pay off our mortgage at the time of our retirement, should we wish to do so. (I could pay it off immediately with savings, but it's a 3.5% loan, so there is no need to do so.) From my perspective right now, I love the idea of having no debt at the time of retirement.

I love the idea of having no debt right now. I sleep real good at night.

Well, if we hadn't lost so much on the previous house, we probably would be. We'll get back there.