(Topic ID: 230052)

Where to start on this EM machine purchased for my dad for Christmas?

By SonOfTheWizard

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Daditude
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#1 5 years ago

Recently purchased an older EM machine to gift to my dad for Christmas. He told me about how he would go out everyday over his lunch break, back when he was in high school, to play pinball. I can remember him tearing up a couple machines at a local pizza joint, when I was a real young kid, but until that story I did not know how passionate he was about it. Anyways, ever since I heard that story, I have wanted to find a way to get one for him. I had tried for years to convince my siblings that this was something he would really appreciate (more so than the tools and equipment we usually gift him). I convinced them to go in with me on a machine that popped up for sale close to us. The machine seems to be in pretty good shape (great if you consider the age), but there are definitely a few things that need some work. I have spent countless hours on this forum and have learned a great great deal. That being said, I am in need of some direction if possible.

The machine is a 1975 Bally Hokus Pokus. For the most part the machine works as it should, but there are a few inserts that are sunken and the playfield has a ball trail and some other points of wear. Nothing that I don't believe cant be fixed, especially with the wealth of knowledge on here. We are planning on giving this machine to him on Christmas day, and I know we will want to log some major time once he gets on it. My old man is very handy so I believe some of this I will want to hold off on, as more of a father son project later down the road. What can I do before Christmas to help out with the play on this machine before then? The sunken inserts is my main concern as it does effect game play if the ball is rolled over at a slower speed. I have been reading through all of the posts I can from @vid1900 he seems to know about everything about these machines, and shoutout for all of the help he has been thus far. I have gotten slightly confused though regarding what I can do on the old EM machines vs what is recommended for more modern machines. I am admittedly a newbie, the vocabulary and abbreviations still trip me up, but I'm working on that. I do not want to ruin his gift before even getting the chance to give it to him. I will detail all of the issue I have discovered thus far, and if anyone has a recommendation for a starting point, or any advice in general it would be greatly appreciated.... Thanks in advance for all of your help.

**Sunken Inserts**
-Caused the ball to stall or launch based on velocity. See pics for examples

*Middle spinner occasionally gets stuck on*
-I attempted to straighten out the pin which seems to have helped but not completely alleviated.

*Missing the original coin basket*
-Does anyone know of a part number that matches this machine? More of a want then a need, but thought I'd ask.

*One of the legs has the top bolt stripped out*
-I am ordering a new set of bolts, but anyone know a way to repair the top bolt, other just Loctite, or would that just be best option?

*The wood is wearing around the Left Flipper Button*
-Is that just wood filler and repaint?

*I'm not sure of the proper name, but the right bumper located near the flipper does not work, I believe it may be a switch that is bad*
- Do I just replace this of try clean up the old parts and try to set the open distance properly again. They appear to have been bent.

*I am planning on ordering some VM&P Naptha to keep the table clean*
-That would be the correct option for this particular machine right?

*44 bulbs or 47?*
- there are a few burnt out and I have read some saying that for home use 47's are recommended, but some that disagree?

*Would you recommend ordering new rollovers or just keep riding them?*
- They do function as is, just look a little rough (see Pics)

*Should I attempt to fix the ball Trail at the top?*
- If is a major undertaking, I can wait until after Christmas and work with dad to do this. Like I said I'm a little nervous that I will cause harm to his new gift before he gets a chance to play it.

*Would you recommend a new clear coat eventually, sooner rather than later, or never?*
- This is a machine more so for pleasure than anything else, but I want him to be able to enjoy it for years to come.

Thanks again in advance for any help you all are able to provide.

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#2 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

**Sunken Inserts**
-Caused the ball to stall or launch based on velocity.

This is not a fix for a beginner. You could replace them or fill them with clear if you're going to clearcoat the playfield. Not enough time to do that before Christmas. Many of those early Ballys have concave inserts, they were too thin to last until now. Vid has a bunch of posts about insert repair, not specifically for your situation: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547755

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*Middle spinner occasionally gets stuck on*
-I attempted to straighten out the pin which seems to have helped but not completely alleviated.

Replacement is probably the simplest option but if Dad is handy and the game is still playable I'd leave it.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*Missing the original coin basket*
-Does anyone know of a part number that matches this machine? More of a want then a need, but thought I'd ask.

boilerman probably knows. Pinball Resource probably has it, give Steve a call or send Jimmy an email.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*One of the legs has the top bolt stripped out*
-I am ordering a new set of bolts, but anyone know a way to repair the top bolt, other just Loctite, or would that just be best option?

Replace the plate on the inside. Probably this one: https://www.pinballlife.com/leg-bracket.html

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*The wood is wearing around the Left Flipper Button*
-Is that just wood filler and repaint?

Yes.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*I'm not sure of the proper name, but the right bumper located near the flipper does not work, I believe it may be a switch that is bad*
- Do I just replace this of try clean up the old parts and try to set the open distance properly again. They appear to have been bent.

It's called a sling. Could be bad coil, bad switch, misadjustment. Can you move it by hand (machine off)? Coil not binding or look burnt?

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*I am planning on ordering some VM&P Naptha to keep the table clean*
-That would be the correct option for this particular machine right?

Naptha will strip off the old wax. You'll want to wax after using it.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*44 bulbs or 47?*
- there are a few burnt out and I have read some saying that for home use 47's are recommended, but some that disagree?

47s produce less heat, less likely to warp plastics and start paint flaking. LEDs produce even less heat. http://www.pbresource.com/your1st.html

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*Would you recommend ordering new rollovers or just keep riding them?*
- They do function as is, just look a little rough (see Pics)

If they function, just play it.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*Should I attempt to fix the ball Trail at the top?*
- If is a major undertaking, I can wait until after Christmas and work with dad to do this. Like I said I'm a little nervous that I will cause harm to his new gift before he gets a chance to play it.

Work on the ball trail with Novus 2 and see what you think. If still a lot of dirt left in it try Novus 3 or some Magic Eraser (CAREFULLY). You probably won't hurt anything since there is no paint to ruin. Wax afterward. If the trail is so deep it's affecting ball travel then you could sand it a little.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

*Would you recommend a new clear coat eventually, sooner rather than later, or never?*
- This is a machine more so for pleasure than anything else, but I want him to be able to enjoy it for years to come.

Probably never. With regular waxing you can play it nearly forever.

#3 5 years ago

Deleted

#4 5 years ago

Fix not working stuff, clean, wax, play.

#5 5 years ago

If it plays halfway I wouldn't worry about it till after Christmas, those cold days are an excellent time to go through the thing.
Start making a parts list and try to get it complete.
I drug my first EM home 2 weeks before Christmas and had a lot of fun playing the decrepit thing until I could do it proper.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

If it plays halfway I wouldn't worry about it till after Christmas, those cold days are an excellent time to go through the thing.
Start making a parts list and try to get it complete.
I drug my first EM home 2 weeks before Christmas and had a lot of fun playing the decrepit thing until I could do it proper.

Thanks for your response, that was my most likely course of action. I do wish I could fix the cupped inserts however, as it does have a negative impact on play.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

This is not a fix for a beginner. You could replace them or fill them with clear if you're going to clearcoat the playfield. Not enough time to do that before Christmas. Many of those early Ballys have concave inserts, they were too thin to last until now. Vid has a bunch of posts about insert repair, not specifically for your situation: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547755

Replacement is probably the simplest option but if Dad is handy and the game is still playable I'd leave it.

boilerman probably knows. Pinball Resource probably has it, give Steve a call or send Jimmy an email.

It's called a sling. Could be bad coil, bad switch, misadjustment. Can you move it by hand (machine off)? Coil not binding or look burnt?

Naptha will strip off the old wax. You'll want to wax after using it.

47s produce less heat, less likely to warp plastics and start paint flaking. LEDs produce even less heat. http://www.pbresource.com/your1st.html

Probably never. With regular waxing you can play it nearly forever.

Thank you for your prompt response. I apologize as I haven't been back on here for a few days. I do have some experience with clear coats, as I resurfaced all of the hard wood floors in my house last year. But would rather not remove everything from the playfield until after it is gifted.

+Would I have to clear coat the whole thing again if the plan were to just fill in the cupped inserts?

+Would you have a particular wax you would recommend for an EM machine like this?

+The sling will fire if I manually move the rubber, but the contact doesn't seem to work right when the ball hits. Assuming this needs to be cleaned up and the gap adjusted? Is there recommended tool to do this or would it simply be easier to replace?

+So is the consensus to move away from the older lights and go led? or start implementing #47's rather than the 44's?

Thanks again for all of your help. I am going to order that plate for the front leg today.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Thank you for your prompt response. I apologize as I haven't been back on here for a few days. I do have some experience with clear coats, as I resurfaced all of the hard wood floors in my house last year. But would rather not remove everything from the playfield until after it is gifted.

+Would I have to clear coat the whole thing again if the plan were to just fill in the cupped inserts?

vid1900 has a long thread about playfield restoration. Would filling them and sanding them perfectly even with the playfield be possible? Probably. You would need to sand the insert without breaking it,then drip clear into it, let it dry, sand it even with the playfield. It would eventually chip at the edge but may be better than what you have.

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

+Would you have a particular wax you would recommend for an EM machine like this?

1 Grand Blitz wax- https://www.pinballlife.com/blitz-carnauba-paste-wax-12-ounce-jar.html

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

+The sling will fire if I manually move the rubber, but the contact doesn't seem to work right when the ball hits. Assuming this needs to be cleaned up and the gap adjusted? Is there recommended tool to do this or would it simply be easier to replace?

Start with cleaning and adjustment. Flexstone http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html and a leaf adjustment tool. https://www.pinballlife.com/ultimate-leaf-adjuster-tool.html

Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

+So is the consensus to move away from the older lights and go led? or start implementing #47's rather than the 44's?

The LED vs. incandescent has no consensus. IMO it's fun to experiment. Get some 47's and some LEDs, see which you like better. https://www.cometpinball.com/Articles.asp?ID=257

#9 5 years ago

I got my first EM a few months ago, also a Hokus Pokus. I also had a ball trail at the top and a few of the inserts - most notably the ABCD in front of the flippers - were cupped. In the beginning, these things jumped out at me as top priorities. I just wanted to give you my experience, which was a good playfield wax and raising the back legs a little to give a little angle to the game was an adequate fix for me. This ended up speeding up the ball and minimizing the impact of the bad inserts. Every once in a while, the ball will alter course because of one of these inserts but it is not something I think of any more than the playfield having a little personality at this point. With any luck, your playfield may play the same way where you don't even think much of it any more.

I noticed when I started with this machine, I wanted it to be pretty much 100% perfect. Over time I started realizing it is a quest to get it from 50% perfect, to 52% perfect, to 54% etc... incremental changes while focusing on only one problem at a time. That way you don't make things worse trying to change too much at once. It will also be hard for the smarter Pinsiders to help with multiple issues at once if you need to ask for help.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

...I believe some of this I will want to hold off on, as more of a father son project later down the road...

^^^ You already gave the best advice to yourself. That is the 'real' Christmas present you'd be giving... I would't touch a darn thing since it's playable.

How do you plan on giving it to him? Xmas at your house so it will be set up already?

#11 5 years ago

I couldn't think of a better present than to have an awesome father son restoration project. Leave it, and work on it together.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

^^^ You already gave the best advice to yourself. That is the 'real' Christmas present you'd be giving... I would't touch a darn thing since it's playable.
How do you plan on giving it to him? Xmas at your house so it will be set up already?

Adding to my comment, buy a rubber kit (the pinball kind), and hand that to him first (wrapped of course) before he sees the pin. Maybe take the packing material/label off so he might have to think about it a bit. Stash the pin in a room somewhere out of sight if possible. You'll need them anyways - so go buy those ahead of time. Stick a bow on the pin, btw. You could have some serious fun w/this present.

And of course, report back and let us know how he likes it!

#13 5 years ago

I'd start with buying lots of wrapping paper! No need to do anything else but enjoy the gift of giving such a great gift.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

I'd start with buying lots of wrapping paper! No need to do anything else but enjoy the gift of giving such a great gift.

Hah, I'd have buy it at Dollar Tree, otherwise it would cost a boatload! I might even do newspaper.

#15 5 years ago

I have a Mibs with deep sunken inserts, would stop play totally at times, almost lose sight of it - will probably never get to leveling as other projects/fixes have a higher impact so I bought one of the Mylar pre-cut assorted diameter circles sheets and layered a few small to big enough to level them out and make it playable. A good temp fix .

You also realize that you now must be on the look out for his birthday machine, EM's hate to be lonely!

Cheers

Tom

#16 5 years ago

. . . and compliments on your forum name choice, goes great with your post and would make any PinDad smile.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Adding to my comment, buy a rubber kit (the pinball kind), and hand that to him first (wrapped of course) before he sees the pin. Maybe take the packing material/label off so he might have to think about it a bit. Stash the pin in a room somewhere out of sight if possible. You'll need them anyways - so go buy those ahead of time. Stick a bow on the pin, btw. You could have some serious fun w/this present.
And of course, report back and let us know how he likes it!

The previous owner did have new rubbers installed last year. They appear to be in good condition yet, but I may not know the real difference. What is the expected life of the rubbers with minimal use?

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

The previous owner did have new rubbers installed last year. They appear to be in good condition yet, but I may not know the real difference. What is the expected life of the rubbers with minimal use?

Someone else probably should chime in since I've only had a few years of experience. I will add tho, I've been restoring a pin for about 2.5 yrs., and some of the new rubber I bought back then already has shown some cracking w/o even a single ball smacking it once.

1 week later
#19 5 years ago

Would anyone have a recommendation for what to use to clean up the legs? There is some slight rusting. Thanks in advance.

#20 5 years ago

It sounds like your legs aren't all that rusty, but people tell me about "Evaporust".
I haven't yet tried it, but they swear by it..

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

It sounds like your legs aren't all that rusty, but people tell me about "Evaporust".
I haven't yet tried it, but they swear by it..

Evaporust is the bomb

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Would anyone have a recommendation for what to use to clean up the legs? There is some slight rusting. Thanks in advance.

I would recommend two things steel wool and I also used some zep tile and tub cleaner. Don’t know what’s in it, but it cleaned some ones I had up nicely.

#23 5 years ago

I used aluminum foil and Diet Coke and it did a pretty good job removing the rust and shining the legs up. Wear rubber gloves though.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Would anyone have a recommendation for what to use to clean up the legs? There is some slight rusting. Thanks in advance.

Evaporust: It simply works, absolutely no doubt about it. Do this: Get some PVC, cap the bottom (get a flat cap), fill it up with Evaporust. Wrap some wire on the leg, stick it in the PVC tube and let it hang. Give a little bump once or twice. Like this:

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#25 5 years ago

Evaporust is THE best way to deal with rusted legs. But for a single pin - one and done - its not cost effective. Its like $20+ for a gallon (which won't fill the PVC tube recommended) and another $20 for the materials to make it -- plus your time. I have the PVC solution and two gallons of Evaporust in it and its great but I've done many pins and will do more. Start with the basic approach -- steel wool and some sudsy water will get it off. If its much worse then work your way up with the chemicals. Or buy shiny new for $12 each.
After rust us off -- good rinse, let dry, then coat of wax with stop rust from coming back -- cuz it will.
BTW - rubbers last many years. I have some pins I installed new rubber kit over 10 years ago and they are good.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdog50:

Evaporust is THE best way to deal with rusted legs. But for a single pin - one and done - its not cost effective. Its like $20+ for a gallon (which won't fill the PVC tube recommended) and another $20 for the materials to make it -- plus your time. I have the PVC solution and two gallons of Evaporust in it and its great but I've done many pins and will do more. Start with the basic approach -- steel wool and some sudsy water will get it off. If its much worse then work your way up with the chemicals. Or buy shiny new for $12 each.
After rust us off -- good rinse, let dry, then coat of wax with stop rust from coming back -- cuz it will.
BTW - rubbers last many years. I have some pins I installed new rubber kit over 10 years ago and they are good.

Make sure to use 0000 steel wool so it wont scratch.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdog50:

...Or buy shiny new for $12 each...

LOL, that's probably the best answer. I use to use the wallpaper tray things that you would put water in to wet the adhesive. Of course, not doubt I would bump it. Plus when Evaporust was in it, some of it would evaporate. So I went with the PVC to solve those problems. And I do like how a piece is suspended entirely in the solution.

I had a lot of parts to clean, so it made sense. But I agree, $40 to only clean legs might not be worth it. I guess if they decide to clean up other parts, then it would be worthwhile.

Ditto on your comment about a coat of wax.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdog50:

Evaporust is THE best way to deal with rusted legs. But for a single pin - one and done - its not cost effective. Its like $20+ for a gallon (which won't fill the PVC tube recommended) and another $20 for the materials to make it -- plus your time. I have the PVC solution and two gallons of Evaporust in it and its great but I've done many pins and will do more. Start with the basic approach -- steel wool and some sudsy water will get it off. If its much worse then work your way up with the chemicals. Or buy shiny new for $12 each.
After rust us off -- good rinse, let dry, then coat of wax with stop rust from coming back -- cuz it will.
BTW - rubbers last many years. I have some pins I installed new rubber kit over 10 years ago and they are good.

Who sells replacement legs for $12 a piece? They were much pricier on most of the sites I was visiting. Thanks again for everyone's responses.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Who sells replacement legs for $12 a piece?

Pinball life sells a set of 4 chromed Bally legs (ribbed or not) for $49. I think you also needed a replacement leg bracket. While you're at it, you might as well get a new piece of playfield glass (if the existing one is scratched). All of these things can be picked up at pinball life in Huntley, IL. Terry's a good guy so order the stuff for pick-up, stop by and get your stuff, and play a game or two while there.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Who sells replacement legs for $12 a piece? They were much pricier on most of the sites I was visiting. Thanks again for everyone's responses.

Not 12 bucks, but close.

http://pbresource.com/legs.html

#31 5 years ago

SonofWiz,

If you do go the Evaporust route, here's some examples. Been a long time since I did these, not sure if I ran them thru the vibrating tumbler or not (but I have a hunch I did)...

Besides the legs, how's the metal on the rest of the machine?

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#32 5 years ago
Quoted from SonOfTheWizard:

Would anyone have a recommendation for what to use to clean up the legs? There is some slight rusting. Thanks in advance.

Just use fine steel wool. Dry. It will remove slight rusting no problem.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

SonofWiz,
If you do go the Evaporust route, here's some examples. Been a long time since I did these, not sure if I ran them thru the vibrating tumbler or not (but I have a hunch I did)...
Besides the legs, how's the metal on the rest of the machine? [quoted image][quoted image]

Evaoporust ain't just for legs. Any rusted part

1 week later
#34 5 years ago

It's Christmas! How did it go?

#35 5 years ago

Merry Christmas! I hope you are all enjoying the pin.

4 weeks later
#36 5 years ago

Sorry it took me so long to post a response to this, but we gifted the pin to my dad over Christmas and I do believe he loved it. I only repaired mostly the cosmetics, but we plan to dig into the sling that has issues, and then move on to the warped inserts in the near future. These are the only two things still effecting gameplay. I will share his fb post that was made the night he received the gift. I am sorry for not capturing video, I wasn't prepared lol. He does currently hold the high score, but I look forward to changing that soon!

DadPost (resized).jpgDadPost (resized).jpg
#37 5 years ago

Awesome!
Now, what do you have planned for father's day?

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