(Topic ID: 164244)

Where to find Chicago Coin schematics?

By drsfmd

7 years ago


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  • 111 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by drsfmd
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#6 7 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

It's nice to pinpoint an issue but figure most games that old need to be gone through top to bottom anyway.

Yeah, clean, replace, adjust, then bug shoot.
I had to make my own "partial" schematic for my Ballerina.
Rough on the back, but rewarding.
Hope that 49 is made well, some of the later CC games...???...well...

#8 7 years ago

if it is a simple harness, wash it with alcohol and a tooth brush to bring out color.
Then remove the wax string, "if it has it".
start at one end, and follow point to point, and draw it out.
lots of extra work, but maybe your only option if you cant find a schematic.??

1 week later
#39 7 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

As to the switch you think is shorted, unsolder wires from one of the lugs and retest. Other switches on the game could provide another path to fake a short. Easier than pulling the stack appart.

If unsoldering one wire shows the switch working correctly, then the "short", is actually caused by a coil in line.
coils will always read shorted, it is just a coil of wire. Same for the transformer.
Continuity testing is a headache waiting to happen.
The best way to test an EM, is to do "hot" testing.
use the games transformer to supply the hot lead, or an external power supply.
test each switch after the coil, heading back towards the RETURN. but enuf about that.
since your pin does not have the timer, or the piston, then it has to be a relay, prob on the reset bank.
"game over, tilt, start, a relay like that.
As stated before, that coin slide is responsible for almost everything, and if it does not travel 100% in both directions, all bets are off.
You mentioned having to tighten some screws 2-3 turns? thats a ton of schrinkage!!!
I bet all those switches need to be cleaned, then re adjusted.
I bet if you go through all the relays one at a time, and make sure they work as they shud manually, then the game will prob spring to life when your done.

#40 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

My current thinking (again, no schematic) is that given that the cap is on the "5 step up" switch, it's supposed to sustain voltage to make the step up unit coil pulse 5 times.

I believe that cap is there to delay the pulses a bit, so it does not over run the mechs.
if that cap fails, as in shorts, it will hold that line high for ever. like a stuck switch.
if the cap fails open, then it will just not offer any delay, the pulses will still happen.
at any rate, it is no where near the correct value any longer. so, just change it.

#41 7 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

In one photo, you showed a shut off switch on the floor.

There may be 2 switches on the under side of the cabinet???
they both need to be working, or you get nuthin.
at least, thats correct for my 1948 Ballerina.
and tilt switches can be tested once you get power to everything.
try sliding the plumb bob to touch the ring, does the tilt relay trip? assuming it has one...
if so, you can test each one to see if it trips, one at a time, of course...and after a reset.

#46 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

There are no switches for power on the bottom of the cabinet. Only that cutoff switch.

ok, if thats a knock off switch, look at it, is the longer blade on top, or bottom?
if its on top, it shud be a NC switch.

Quoted from drsfmd:When the coin mech goes back to it's normal position, everything goes dark.

ok, thats prob cause a relay is not locking in the up position. or, something is cancelling it.
do a manual coin up with the play field up.
can you see all of the relays latching in the up position?
do any of them fall back down when you release the bar?

Quoted from drsfmd:So... push in the coin mech to activate the reset bar, that coil kicks in and just holds until the reset bar is released?

what coil? and it may need to hold for game play. try holding it up manually, and see if power is restored.

Quoted from drsfmd:I have done through all of the switches on the bank that's reset by the bar, as well as all of the scoring ones. They have all been cleaned, gapped, and tested for continuity.

ok, but do the switches all move correctly if you manually press on the actuating plate? there can be a difference in the travel between power operated, and manually actuated.

Quoted from drsfmd:

As I mentioned yesterday, there's a single switch on the reset relay that has continuity in both positions-- clearly that's not right.

So, have you unsoldered one wire and retested the switch? it may be a hold switch? which is accross the coil, and can give weird readings.

Quoted from drsfmd:

I don't know where I'm supposed to be looking for the next switch. How do you suggest doing this without a schematic.

Well, thats where the reverse engineering comes in play. Sorry, did not mean that as a joke.
keep plunkin away at it, you will see light!

#50 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

The coil that actuates the stepper pictured in post 38.

that coil shud never lock on. it is just a step coil

#53 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Oh, and both the 30v and 6v fuses have ~13 volts when tested. Not sure of the significance of that.

are you saying that you are reading 13 volts on each fuse? how are you measuring them?

Quoted from drsfmd:If I hold the bar in and let the coil in the backbox buzz (loudly) the score motor finds its correct position and stops.

that sounds promising. will it do the same thing if you hold just the reset relay in? I noticed from your pic, that the reset is the only one tripped.
and maybe a pic of the buzzin coil?

Quoted from drsfmd:I figured out that the 120v backbox lights and many of the 6v lights in the backbox and playfield are controlled by a single switch at the end of the reset bar.

So the lights stay on when the bar is fully at rest?

#57 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I'm testing from the ground point in the bottom of the cabinet to the fuse block, the jones plug, and at the coils.

That does not sound right.
testing shud be from the transformer RETURN wire, usually white, but on yours???
and shud be AC, then test to fuse and beyond.

Quoted from drsfmd:

No. If I just hold the reset relay in, nothing happens. The reset is the only one that doesn't have a lock of any sort- it appears to only consist of momentary switches.

ok, that must cause another relay to lock on till reset is complete. strange it does not lock the reset relay.???

Quoted from drsfmd:

No, they don't. If you go back earlier in the thread, I had them staying in and the trough releasing balls, then I realized I hadn't tightened the switch stacks. When I tightened them, that function stopped working, but other things started working.

Bummer, you will have to go through them again, and find what is not working correctly. something is smashed together, or too far apart to connect well.

Quoted from drsfmd:

I found something on a radio repair site that suggested taking a .22uf and .033 uF and hooking them in parallel. Thoughts on that?

Yes, you can do that, it divides the two, and gives a melded value of the two.
I would bet you can use the .47 was it? value is so small, it shud not make much difference.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

20 comes in from the power cord. Goes through the fuses to the jones plug, where it goes to the bottom of the playfield (I have 120v at the switch that turns on the lights).

Ok, thats the primary side, 120v.
And, it looks like some switch on the play field sends power back to the transformer through the same plug.
Now, on the other side of the transformer, looks like 2 or 3 fused output wires.
follow back from the left side of each fuse to the transformer. when you run out of fused wires, the remaining one is the RETURN,
or neutral. that is the same as ground in a DC circuit. "for our purposes".
If you put a cliplead on the return, and measure to the right side of the fuses, you shud get your 24, and 6 volt AC output.
what is all that writing on the sides of the jones plug? that may be all you need.

#67 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

to the left of the cut off switch. That's what I have been using as a ground point when I'm testing.

Ok, thats earth ground, not what your lookin for.
You need to stay on the top of the transformer for both the hot and return wires.

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

So the line coming out of the top of the transformer just to the left of the "blue line" on my photo? That goes to the aforementioned grounding point.

Not sure, cannot tell from pic. can you take a pic of the front of the transformer? that may help

Quoted from drsfmd:

my current idea is to trace the 30v line up through the playfield-- wherever that goes is likely the next step in the reset, and thus the next link in my chain. Thoughts?

Cant hurt. The transformer RETURN line should be on that plug somewhere too.

Quoted from drsfmd:it would seem to me that whatever the 30V line goes to is a likely suspect, no?

The 30v line should hit a switch on the tilt, game over, start, reset, relays, or, maybe, straight to a switch on that bar. that may be why you are losin it. that bar has to be resting in the correct place to start a game.

#71 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I'm sure it hits all of the coils on that reset bar. What I'm getting at is whether there's any logic that it will connect to the first relay in the startup string first. From there, I can trace that signal through the switches to the next relay, and so on...

it shud hit one switch first, then be daisy chained to all the others.

Quoted from drsfmd:

Could that be the blue line on my drawing above? That goes directly to the transformer and is coming back from the head. I haven't traced the other line from that plug, but I can certainly do so.

prob not, think thats a 120 volt for some big bulbs.
one easy way to find the return, put one meter lead on the 30volt fuse, and the other on the plug pin you suspect is the return, if you get 30volts, thats it. mark it so you do not forget.

#80 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I'm labelling it all in the hopes of making some sort of rudimentary schematic.

Keep with it, eventually you will have a schematic.
have you identified what that "shorted" switch on the reset relay does. or if it is shorted?

#83 7 years ago

try KICAD, I have not used it yet, but hear its pretty good.
hope it works for you, I wanna see what you have discovered!

1 month later
#100 7 years ago

Hello again...
Glad you are makin progress.
the score steper issue. How many steps does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop...???...WOW, that went waaay back...
count them while you are manually stepping the gear around, "with a game started"
I assume that step unit has only one coil?
so there has to be a switch position on the disk, "assuming again"... that tells the brain the unit has returned to "0"
next, count the clicks the motor makes for each score added. most step 5 places per 1/3 of a full revolution. yours may vary.
there will be an association between the steps the score unit steps to reach "0", and the number of clicks per motor revolution.
you may try to start a game, then manually step the score unit all the way around to "0", and watch for a relay to drop out. maybe???

#102 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

The number of steps it takes is not consistent

Sooo...are you saying that under its own power, it cannot step consistently?
or, when you manually step it forward, it skips steps?

#104 7 years ago

I believe, i would follow the wire from the step up coil back, and see what fires it.
it shud go to a relay switch that can open when "at 0" is reached, follow back more to end up at the score motor impulse switch.

2 months later
#106 7 years ago

Hi again.
glad to hear of your progress.
That score reset is baffling. I would think, it would have to have a location, like "0", that shud release a coil.
Thinking a relay locks on, the thing steps, then the relay is released???
if it is a continuous stepper, it would need to count all the way around, to get back to "0".

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