(Topic ID: 164244)

Where to find Chicago Coin schematics?


By drsfmd

3 years ago



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#1 3 years ago

I unexpectedly find myself the owner of a Chicago Coin machine (1949's Golden Gloves). It's rough and not working, but appears to be all there.

Neither Mike Pacack or PBR have a schematic for this one, not do IPDB or archive.org.

Any ideas?

#2 3 years ago

Check with Jeff Wager. He often has some less common schematics. I see the links that list what are available on his website are broken but you may be able to email him with some success.

http://www.jeffwager.com/Default.htm

John Robertson may be worth a try as well.
https://www.flippers.com/index.htm

#3 3 years ago

Thanks. I emailed Jeff. John didn't have it on his list.

Anybody else?

#4 3 years ago

Bump. Jeff got back to me-- he doesn't have it either.

Truthfully, this game isn't all that complicated, and I probably don't *need* a schematic to get it working, but I'd like to have it nonetheless.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Bump. Jeff got back to me-- he doesn't have it either.
Truthfully, this game isn't all that complicated, and I probably don't *need* a schematic to get it working, but I'd like to have it nonetheless.

I generally use them as a last resort. It's nice to pinpoint an issue but figure most games that old need to be gone through top to bottom anyway. I agree though, it is definitely nice to have if you can source one.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

It's nice to pinpoint an issue but figure most games that old need to be gone through top to bottom anyway.

Yeah, clean, replace, adjust, then bug shoot.
I had to make my own "partial" schematic for my Ballerina.
Rough on the back, but rewarding.
Hope that 49 is made well, some of the later CC games...???...well...

#7 3 years ago

Bump.

So I got this thing home and started pulling it apart... the wiring is a complete mess, and I'm going to need to re-wire most of the machine. B

I've messaged everyone from every site I could find that sells schematics. I've messaged everyone I could find who claimed to own one. I have had no luck in finding a schematic.

This machine is simple enough that I can probably figure it out without a schematic, but I really don't want to have to do that... so if you have one, or have a source, please let me know.

#8 3 years ago

if it is a simple harness, wash it with alcohol and a tooth brush to bring out color.
Then remove the wax string, "if it has it".
start at one end, and follow point to point, and draw it out.
lots of extra work, but maybe your only option if you cant find a schematic.??

#9 3 years ago

Might very well be. I'll post some photos of it in the next few days.

#10 3 years ago

Giving this a bump-- it's been a couple of days, and my google-fu has been unsuccessful... maybe someone will see this and take pity on a poor soul trying to bring this old timer back to life.

I can't get it to power up... I'm wondering if the transformer might be bad.

#11 3 years ago

To add... if anyone can point me to a startup sequence or help me understand how these machines power up, it would be greatly appreciated. Mine does absolutely nothing when plugged in (started a seperate thread about that...).

#12 3 years ago

I checked my jeffwager product list that he sent when I got some schems for a CC Champion Rifle. it wasn't on it.

I noticed that... when looking up GG it says to compare it to the CC football game. again jeff didn't have those either .. and I don't know.. perhaps the games are almost similar ..if you were able to find scehmatics for that game? it is probably not the ideal solution...

#13 3 years ago

I wasn't aware of the football game, and yes, the playfield has a similar layout.

I'm not worried about troubleshooting individual items-- I think I can figure that out once I get there... the problem I've got is that I don't understand the logic or startup sequence of the machine, and I can't get it to do ANYTHING at this point.

#14 3 years ago

Did you push in the coin slide? Some games from this era are activated by a timer that is pushed in by the coin slide.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Did you push in the coin slide? Some games from this era are activated by a timer that is pushed in by the coin slide.

I had a 1939 cc buckaroo. Everything was on the coin slide. No GI just lights on when you complete a mode. But be careful when you do have it plugged in. The metal surrounding the playfeild can zap you good.

#16 3 years ago

Interesting. No, I haven't touched the coin slide yet. It's jammed, so I set it aside for the moment... and I guess I need to make getting that back into operation a priority!

#17 3 years ago

Well, you may not need a functional coin slide to test this. With the coin door attached and the play field up you can manually activate the timer if it has one. It will look like a little bell with a metal arm sticking out of it. Most likely on the underside of the play field. The coin slide will push that metal arm forward closing a switch giving power to the game.

This is a lot of speculation on my part. I'm going from memory on a 1948 Genco I had. I know other manufacturers of this era did also use timers though so it's worth looking into.

#18 3 years ago

So I snuck home at lunchtime. I don't see anything that resembles a timer, other than a bell in the head that is to the right of the normal chime-- perhaps this is it? I can post a photo later.

As I said before, I have just sort of ignored the coin door until now, and upon closer inspection, my coin door isn't currently connected to anything! I don't see a spot for the jumpers either, unless I'm supposed to connect it directly to the transformer, which has a couple of single, jones plug style connectors. Can anyone confirm whether or not the coin door should connect directly to the transformer?

#19 3 years ago

On my buckaroo. The coin slide tail pushed on a price of metal. By hat was connected to a framework of bars that slide back when pushed on. This Manually reset features and relays (no reset relays) and also pushed on the timer (looks like a bicycle bell with a little arm under it). Then the game came to life.

Again watch where your other hand is when doing this. My had sheet metal surrounding the playfeild on the cabinet walls. It would zap me. I don't think the coin door plug was required for gameplay.

#20 3 years ago

Do you remember what your coin door was wired to? Other than going directly to the transformer, I don't see a plug, nor do I see wires cut off... so I'm not sure what to do with this!

#21 3 years ago

Ok... I found the wires for the coin door-- they were taped up and tucked in the corner of the machine. Somebody really hacked this thing up. I repaired those, but I still don't have power at the coin door. With my battery test rig, I can go from one side of the coil to the fuse, and when I push the coin slot in, the switch closes, and the coil activates... so at least it works in concept. I'm not really sure where to go from here... does anyone know the order of operation for these machines?

Oh, and as promised, some pictures. I think I found the "clock". It was seized up tight, and I worked last night to get it freed up and lubed as best as I could (I can't figure out how to get it apart-- it appears to be press fit together). Look at the top left corner of the clock-- it appears that there may have been another coil as part of this mechanism, but there's no evidence of any wiring having been present (unless it was driven via the bell mechanism, which is out of the left hand side of the photo, and is missing, though the loose wires for that are present). I think it's possible that there never was a coil there-- though the unit will turn continuously in either direction, the way it's geared it's clear that it was only intended to go clockwise. It works with my test battery.
clock_(resized).JPG

The playfield should clean up nicely. Yes, I have all the plastics.
playfield_(resized).JPG

The backglass is pretty much shot. I will probably have to have a translite made.
backglass_(resized).JPG

#22 3 years ago

No, that's not a "clock",. That is a stepper unit. Since it has a bell, it is probably related to lighting score lights.

The clock they describe ( or timer), is usually about 2" in diameter. Has an arm sticking out that is used to " wind it up". And a switch that closes while it unwinds. The switch keeps power going to the game for a few minutes and then opens and makes the game go dead.

However, other similar era games may only have a "dash pot". A cylindrical device about 3 inches long that has a flat plunger sticking out. Often located under the upper left corner of the playfield. It has a rubber or leather piston and when working, gets pushed in and then slowly releases. This is to provide a delayed movement of the playfield slide and allow things to reset.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

No, that's not a "clock",. That is a stepper unit. Since it has a bell, it is probably related to lighting score lights.
The clock they describe ( or timer), is usually about 2" in diameter. Has an arm sticking out that is used to " wind it up". And a switch that closes while it unwinds. The switch keeps power going to the game for a few minutes and then opens and makes the game go dead.
However, other similar era games may only have a "dash pot". A cylindrical device about 3 inches long that has a flat plunger sticking out. Often located under the upper left corner of the playfield. It has a rubber or leather piston and when working, gets pushed in and then slowly releases. This is to provide a delayed movement of the playfield slide and allow things to reset.

I know it's a stepper unit I couldn't figure out what other function it could possibly have.

I'll take some pics of the underside of the playfield, and we'll see what we can figure out, but I don't remember seeing anything that looks like either of those things.

#24 3 years ago

Some more photos (and a couple of fancy animated gifs... if they work).

There's another stepper unit in the backbox that is wound up with one coil, and when it releases it winds down as shown-- it's the only "wound up" mechanism I could find. There's no dash pot that I can see...

The other issue appears to be that the coin mechanism doesn't go in far enough to activate the bar that (I think) should start the reset process... would that also energize the game? Thoughts on how to correct this?

playfieldunderside1_(resized).jpg

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#25 3 years ago

It could be the wrong brand of push slide. What happens if you manually push the lever hanging down that would normally be pushed by a longer slide?

Wow, they put just about everything on the underside of the playfield instead of putting some of it on the floor of the game. Even the score motor is mounted up on the corner of the playfield. What happens if you turn the cams on that by hand? Does it take over and complete a cycle (either 180 or 360 degrees)?

I don't see a clock or a dashpot either. But its interesting that there is a relay in your photo that shows up and says: GAME CUT OUT. Is there anything unique about that position on the bank or does it appear to be a normal trip latch style relay?

The one side appears to have individual relays while the other side (with more metal) appears to be a "Trip Bank" of some type. This is the kind where all the relays get reset by the same action (usually a large coil and a long armature) but yours might be engaged by the motion of the push slide.

#26 3 years ago

This is the Reset bar on my 1939 Chicago coin O'Boy.
I can eliminate the coin slide on the front of the cabinet by lifting the Playfield
and moving the bar by hand.
Even though the power is ON, you will not get any lites until the Bar slides forward to reset everything.
The Blue lines show the Switches that get Reset; the Red line shows the bar moving forward.
Try operating the pin with the Playfield raised.
JohnIMG_2547_(resized).JPG

#27 3 years ago

Ha! Your game has both a dash pot and a clock mech!

Kind of funny how they also mounted a bell on the dash pot and then strike it with an extended armature off the adjoining stepper unit.

#28 3 years ago

**** Still looking for a Schematic..........
The scoring lites go Up to 60,000, but I don't see how anyone can score
anything close to that without flippers.IMG_2550_(resized).JPG

#29 3 years ago

I have some progress to report...

I figured out the coin mech issue-- there was a hook that I thought was supposed to indicate the end of the stroke for the mech, but it actually was supposed to retract when the coin was in the mech. It didn't. A small brass shim to keep the hook from engaging fixed that issue, and the mech goes in further than I realized it was supposed to (and had the added effect of no longer needing to have a coin in the mech to push it in). It now goes in far enough to engage the reset bar.

The other gain I made is that when I push the coin mech in and engage the reset bar, the 120V lights in the backbox come on, so I'm going in the right direction. I didn't have much time to tinker, so it will have to wait until I get home tonight... didn't test whether or not I'm getting the other voltages at the transformer yet. I'll report back after I do that.

When the reset bar is pushed in, it dosn't hold, and the game doesn't start. In my thread about testing the transformer (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-test-a-transformer-1949-chicago-coin#post-3259871) it was suggested that there should be a "Game Cut Out" relay that would keep the power on when the bar was engaged-- there is a label for such a relay, but as I noted in the other thread, there's no physical game cutoff relay-- just an empty spot. Problem is, the wiring harness is also intact, and nothing has been cut away. Would this label or the entire relay stack have been a standard part and perhaps this game never had the cutoff relay?

Either way, we may be at the stage where there's just a maladjusted switch keeping this from holding and firing up. I'll have time tonight and tomorrow to do some more troubleshooting. In the meantime, I'd welcome any more thoughts.

Regarding the schematic, I have reached out to the other owners who list this machine on the pinball owners database-- none of them have a schematic. I've written to a couple of major woodrail collectors who don't list this particular machine, but I'm hoping they have a schematic in their collections. The game is simple enough that I think I could troubleshoot it all if I understood the order of operations for the startup sequence... until then I'm just guessing and looking for maladjusted switches.

Thanks for your continued help and feedback as I muddle through this.

#30 3 years ago

Some more success... and a bit of a backslide.

I tinkered some more tonight, and I had the machine to the point where it would basically reset, and the arm that allows the balls to slide into the tray for the lifter would deploy. The lights would come on and stay on, as though the game thought it was at least partially in play. The center kickout hole also is working. The I remembered EM101, and I decided to tighten down all of the switch stacks-- some of them I was able to get 2-3 full turns out of the screws.

When I did that, I knocked something out of alignment, and the reset no longer happened. The backbox *and* playfield lights both come on now when the reset bar is pushed, but they don't hold. Some of the score lights in the backbox also flash in addition to the 120v bulbs. I am going to need to go through each stack, switch by switch with the multimeter and bender and test each one... time consuming for sure, but it needs to be done. These switch blade are different than the other EMs I have (Williams, Gottlieb, Bally, United) as they are *much* thinner, and easier to bend out of position.

I suspect at this point that I am only a couple of switches away from having this machine up and running. I'd still love to know the order of operations, as it would help me track down where the failure is happening. I'd also love to know what Chicago Coin used as the equivalent of a "hold" switch, as I can't figure that one out. Hopefully, one of the woodrail collectors I've written to will have a schematic for this machine or for a "Football" which appears to be the same, as Singlezero pointed out back in post 12.

Wish me luck... it's going to be a tedious day tomorrow...

#31 3 years ago

When you push your coin slide IN, make sure it comes ALL the way back to the fully out position.
If it doesn't the game will not be Fully Reset
* Note ..... jcg9998 at Pinball Owners Database has a 'golden Gloves'. You may want to 'PM' him at that website.
I am also trying to get info from him about my Pin........

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

When you push your coin slide IN, make sure it comes ALL the way back to the fully out position.
If it doesn't the game will not be Fully Reset

I noticed that switch

I'm going to swing by the hardware store later this morning to see if I can find a slightly stouter spring for the return. The current one isn't strong enough.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I noticed that switch
I'm going to swing by the hardware store later this morning to see if I can find a slightly stouter spring for the return. The current one isn't strong enough.

Weak springs can be easily overlooked an be a 'big headache'..........

#34 3 years ago

*sigh*

I have spent the last 9 hours going through switches on the underside of the playfield, cleaning, and testing continutity in both positions. As near as I can tell, all of the switches are working properly except 1... there's a switch on the reset relay that has continuity no matter what postion it's in. I suspect that this one is the root of my problems. I've given up for today, but tomorrow (unless you guys have other ideas!) I'm going to pull apart that switch stack. I'm wondering if perhaps and unsulator or some unseen bit of solder is bridging the two switches. I have not been sucessful in getting the machine to go through the basic steps of the reset (and hold) that I referenced in post 14 yesterday. Now when I push the reset bar in with the coin mechanism, the 120V lights in the backbox light up, and a half dozen of the playfield lights come up as long momentarily, and the coil on the stepper unit (pictured above in #14) steps up. When I release the coin mech, everything goes back off.

On the score motor there's an ancient waxed yellow paper capacitor on the "5 Step Up" switch. Not sure how to test it, and there's no value shown on the capacitor. I'd have to imagine that's no good, and I'm wondering if that could be the source of my difficulties. Anyone know the value of these? I'll replace it with a modern one...

On the scoring bank, there are a bunch of switches that have continutity in both positions. I've checked all the playfield switches, and none of them are stuck.

Dumb question... should any of the tilt switches be in the closed position? They are currently all open. Obviously, the plumbob and the ball activated switch on the bottom of the playfield are supposed to be open. I'm not 100% sure on the other 3-- they are all the weighted blade type.

#35 3 years ago

Bump.

Hoping still hoping that someone can help me figure out the value of the capacitor, and the order of operations. I'm itching to get the repair work done, and get down to the restoration of the rest of the machine.

I tracked down and reached out to a couple of owners of the Chicago Coin "Football" last night, which appears to be an almost identical game with different artwork.

#36 3 years ago

The Caps on my 1939 are .5mfd @ 200volts
They were made by Falcon.
If you think the caps are bad; unsolder one lead and see if the pin operates differently.
You can see if they are shorted, but if in doubt, replace them.

#37 3 years ago

In one photo, you showed a shut off switch on the floor. It was common in the early days for there to be a " kick off" switch. I would suspect this switch would be normally closed to continually provide hold power to a relay. Once opened, power drops off to the relay and it opens up thereby removing power to the game ( transformer and 120v lights).

As to the switch you think is shorted, unsolder wires from one of the lugs and retest. Other switches on the game could provide another path to fake a short. Easier than pulling the stack appart.

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

If you think the caps are bad; unsolder one lead and see if the pin operates differently.

The thing is, I think it's going to behave the same way BECAUSE the cap has failed. My current thinking (again, no schematic) is that given that the cap is on the "5 step up" switch, it's supposed to sustain voltage to make the step up unit coil pulse 5 times.
clock_(resized).JPG

Currently, when I push in the reset bar, that unit only steps up once. Unsoldering the capacitor wouldn't change that.

I have been unsuccessful at finding any resources regarding waxed paper capacitor use in pinballs, but a site about antique radios (http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm) suggests that these old paper capacitors have almost always failed. I'll take a closer look at it tonight and see if I can determine a value for it-- I may need to remove it to find that, as all that's written on the visible label is "paper type capacitor" and manufacturer info. If I can't find that value on the underside, I'll see what I can order that's closest to .5mfd @ 200V and hope for the best.

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

As to the switch you think is shorted, unsolder wires from one of the lugs and retest. Other switches on the game could provide another path to fake a short. Easier than pulling the stack appart.

If unsoldering one wire shows the switch working correctly, then the "short", is actually caused by a coil in line.
coils will always read shorted, it is just a coil of wire. Same for the transformer.
Continuity testing is a headache waiting to happen.
The best way to test an EM, is to do "hot" testing.
use the games transformer to supply the hot lead, or an external power supply.
test each switch after the coil, heading back towards the RETURN. but enuf about that.
since your pin does not have the timer, or the piston, then it has to be a relay, prob on the reset bank.
"game over, tilt, start, a relay like that.
As stated before, that coin slide is responsible for almost everything, and if it does not travel 100% in both directions, all bets are off.
You mentioned having to tighten some screws 2-3 turns? thats a ton of schrinkage!!!
I bet all those switches need to be cleaned, then re adjusted.
I bet if you go through all the relays one at a time, and make sure they work as they shud manually, then the game will prob spring to life when your done.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

My current thinking (again, no schematic) is that given that the cap is on the "5 step up" switch, it's supposed to sustain voltage to make the step up unit coil pulse 5 times.

I believe that cap is there to delay the pulses a bit, so it does not over run the mechs.
if that cap fails, as in shorts, it will hold that line high for ever. like a stuck switch.
if the cap fails open, then it will just not offer any delay, the pulses will still happen.
at any rate, it is no where near the correct value any longer. so, just change it.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

In one photo, you showed a shut off switch on the floor.

There may be 2 switches on the under side of the cabinet???
they both need to be working, or you get nuthin.
at least, thats correct for my 1948 Ballerina.
and tilt switches can be tested once you get power to everything.
try sliding the plumb bob to touch the ring, does the tilt relay trip? assuming it has one...
if so, you can test each one to see if it trips, one at a time, of course...and after a reset.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

If unsoldering one wire shows the switch working correctly, then the "short", is actually caused by a coil in line.
coils will always read shorted, it is just a coil of wire. Same for the transformer.
Continuity testing is a headache waiting to happen.
The best way to test an EM, is to do "hot" testing.
use the games transformer to supply the hot lead, or an external power supply.
test each switch after the coil, heading back towards the RETURN. but enuf about that.
since your pin does not have the timer, or the piston, then it has to be a relay, prob on the reset bank.
"game over, tilt, start, a relay like that.
As stated before, that coin slide is responsible for almost everything, and if it does not travel 100% in both directions, all bets are off.
You mentioned having to tighten some screws 2-3 turns? thats a ton of schrinkage!!!
I bet all those switches need to be cleaned, then re adjusted.
I bet if you go through all the relays one at a time, and make sure they work as they shud manually, then the game will prob spring to life when your done.

Yes, there was a ton of shrinkage (insert George Costanza joke here!). I'm sure that the tightening of the switches is what changed my semi-startup condition.

I have done through all of the switches on the bank that's reset by the bar, as well as all of the scoring ones. They have all been cleaned, gapped, and tested for continuity.

As I mentioned yesterday, there's a single switch on the reset relay that has continuity in both positions-- clearly that's not right.

The challenge I'm running into with testing the switches in the manner you have suggested (which is a method I've used before and it's very effective) is that I don't know where I'm supposed to be looking for the next switch. How do you suggest doing this without a schematic.

I'd be quite happy if I could get it back to the state where it would hold and believe it's in game play. Troubleshooting from that point should prove much easier.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

I believe that cap is there to delay the pulses a bit, so it does not over run the mechs.
if that cap fails, as in shorts, it will hold that line high for ever. like a stuck switch.
if the cap fails open, then it will just not offer any delay, the pulses will still happen.
at any rate, it is no where near the correct value any longer. so, just change it.

So... push in the coin mech to activate the reset bar, that coil kicks in and just holds until the reset bar is released? That's what it's doing now.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

There may be 2 switches on the under side of the cabinet???
they both need to be working, or you get nuthin.
at least, thats correct for my 1948 Ballerina.
and tilt switches can be tested once you get power to everything.
try sliding the plumb bob to touch the ring, does the tilt relay trip? assuming it has one...
if so, you can test each one to see if it trips, one at a time, of course...and after a reset.

There are no switches for power on the bottom of the cabinet. Only that cutoff switch. It's literally the only switch on the bottom of the cabinet. The plum bob, transformer, a jones plug, and the fuse block are the only other things-- everything else is on the bottom of the playfield.

Should that cutoff switch be opened or closed? As it sits now, it's NO. I have jumpered the leads to make it NC, and that didn't make a difference.

I'll double check on the tilt relay. I don't remember seeing one. Despite the fact that there are so many tilt switches present, there's no light or other indicator of tilt (I am assuming the machine just turns off?). I don't think I'm getting far enough into the start sequence to test the tilt either way-- basically, when I push in the coin mech, the GI lights up, and the stepper that I pictured above moves one step. It also decredits by one. When the coin mech goes back to it's normal position, everything goes dark.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

The Caps on my 1939 are .5mfd @ 200volts

That is proving to be a difficult value to track down. Suggestions for an alternative? The closest I'm coming up with is: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/R75MN34704030J/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrFxcrIfcgokqez4MLQIqofir%252bDull%252buVV%252bg%3d%3d

Can you fill me in on the status of your tilt switches? Are they all NO? Are any of them NC?

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

There are no switches for power on the bottom of the cabinet. Only that cutoff switch.

ok, if thats a knock off switch, look at it, is the longer blade on top, or bottom?
if its on top, it shud be a NC switch.

Quoted from drsfmd:When the coin mech goes back to it's normal position, everything goes dark.

ok, thats prob cause a relay is not locking in the up position. or, something is cancelling it.
do a manual coin up with the play field up.
can you see all of the relays latching in the up position?
do any of them fall back down when you release the bar?

Quoted from drsfmd:So... push in the coin mech to activate the reset bar, that coil kicks in and just holds until the reset bar is released?

what coil? and it may need to hold for game play. try holding it up manually, and see if power is restored.

Quoted from drsfmd:I have done through all of the switches on the bank that's reset by the bar, as well as all of the scoring ones. They have all been cleaned, gapped, and tested for continuity.

ok, but do the switches all move correctly if you manually press on the actuating plate? there can be a difference in the travel between power operated, and manually actuated.

Quoted from drsfmd:

As I mentioned yesterday, there's a single switch on the reset relay that has continuity in both positions-- clearly that's not right.

So, have you unsoldered one wire and retested the switch? it may be a hold switch? which is accross the coil, and can give weird readings.

Quoted from drsfmd:

I don't know where I'm supposed to be looking for the next switch. How do you suggest doing this without a schematic.

Well, thats where the reverse engineering comes in play. Sorry, did not mean that as a joke.
keep plunkin away at it, you will see light!

#47 3 years ago

Hi drsfmd
with great interest I follow Your topic. I once could buy a non-running Freshie: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=954 (and I have not worked yet on the pin). A friendly pinsider sent me JPGs of his paper schematic diagram (pictures taken with a camera). If You want me to send the stuff: Write me a personal note with Your EMail-Address.

I show here a snippet of the schematic diagram - Line-Power and 45 Volts and 6 Volts. I also show some impressions. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: I have no idea how close / similar "old Williams" and "old Chicago Coins" are.

m-Freshie-Transformer-schematics_(resized).jpg

my-Freshie-Backbox_(resized).JPG

my-Freshie-Cabinet_(resized).JPG

my-Freshie-Playfield-Motor_(resized).JPG

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

ok, if thats a knock off switch, look at it, is the longer blade on top, or bottom?
if its on top, it shud be a NC switch.

There's a weight on the bottom blade, so I've been working under the assumption that it should be NO. There are two switches on the side of the cabinet that I will take pics of when I get home.
cut_out_(resized).JPG

Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

ok, thats prob cause a relay is not locking in the up position. or, something is cancelling it.
do a manual coin up with the play field up.
can you see all of the relays latching in the up position?
do any of them fall back down when you release the bar?

I will double check this, but I believe that they are all latching.

Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

what coil? and it may need to hold for game play. try holding it up manually, and see if power is restored.

The coil that actuates the stepper pictured in post 38.

Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

ok, but do the switches all move correctly if you manually press on the actuating plate? there can be a difference in the travel between power operated, and manually actuated.

Yes. I thought about that one, and I tested them on switch by switch with the DMM and used my battery rig to activate the coil.

Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

So, have you unsoldered one wire and retested the switch? it may be a hold switch? which is accross the coil, and can give weird readings.

I didn't... but that makes a lot of sense, and I will try that tonight.

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi drsfmd
with great interest I follow Your topic. I once could buy a non-running Freshie: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=954 (and I have not worked yet on the pin). A friendly pinsider sent me JPGs of his paper schematic diagram (pictures taken with a camera). If You want me to send the stuff: Write me a personal note with Your EMail-Address.
I show here a snippet of the schematic diagram - Line-Power and 45 Volts and 6 Volts. I also show some impressions. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: I have no idea how close / similar "old Williams" and "old Chicago Coins" are.

PM sent. Thanks.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

The coil that actuates the stepper pictured in post 38.

that coil shud never lock on. it is just a step coil

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