(Topic ID: 187989)

Where to buy SMD LED for WOZ light boards

By lyonsden

6 years ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Majdi
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#1 6 years ago

I have a dead red channel on one of my satellite LED boards for my woz (7.5V). I'm wondering if anyone knows where to buy just the LED. I send in a support ticket and talked to Vic (where I ordered a new board), but he didn't know the part number for just the LED. Given this extra board, I'd like to try my hand with a hot air station to replace the LED.

EDIT: By part number, I mean something other than the JPP part number so I can try to find it on digikey, mouser, etc.

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#2 6 years ago

Might be easiest to buy one from JJP first - if they'll sell you just the SMT LED. Not sure if it would have some identification marks on it, but it might...

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from dtowndobe:

Might be easiest to buy one from JJP first - if they'll sell you just the SMT LED. Not sure if it would have some identification marks on it, but it might...

I asked, they don't sell them individually (comes from their board manufactured pre-assembled.)

#4 6 years ago

I replaced one for a friend, and he bought them from Mouser. They're not in stock now, though:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingbright/AAAF5051-04/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugliyn2FzUcZq839xaPMqTuhfWQU%252bJttn%2fwHgSh20JsMA%3d%3d

Edit:
Looks like Digikey has them, but a good bit more expensive:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kingbright/AAAF5051-04/754-1828-1-ND/4898058

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

I asked, they don't sell them individually (comes from their board manufactured pre-assembled.)

Bit of a bummer, but understood. Not sure why JJP would assign a part number to it unless they're refurbishing returned boards themselves.

Quoted from herg:

I replaced one for a friend, and he bought them from Mouser. They're not in stock now, though:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingbright/AAAF5051-04/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugliyn2FzUcZq839xaPMqTuhfWQU%252bJttn%2fwHgSh20JsMA%3d%3d
Edit:
Looks like Digikey has them, but a good bit more expensive:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kingbright/AAAF5051-04/754-1828-1-ND/4898058

Probably won't take long for Mouser to get them.

Herg - any issues with the replacement or was it smooth sailing?

#6 6 years ago

I haven't talked to JJP about replacement yet, but I have about 10 single board 7.5v GI boards that either have 1 color out, or 1-2 colors that start flickering and then mostly go off after the game has been on for a few minutes. I think a few have been bad for a long time, but they were under the mini playfields or in back by the emerald city where they're not very noticeable. It wasn't until a couple of the sling GI's started acting up that I went in test mode to try and tally them up. Must be heat related, as none of the same P/N board LEDs on the inserts have any issues. 3rd party replacement of the LEDs might be nice for someone to do in the future.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from dtowndobe:

Herg - any issues with the replacement or was it smooth sailing?

Since there is a slug under the LED and lot of copper on the board, it takes a lot of heat to flow the solder. The LED body is plastic, so it doesn't take kindly to a lot of hot air. I used hot air to remove the old LED and completely destroyed it in the process. To solder the new LED, I scraped away a small area of the solder mask on the ground nearby the part. I then used an iron on that exposed area and let the heat flow over to the LED pad. The pins were easy after that.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Since there is a slug under the LED and lot of copper on the board, it takes a lot of heat to flow the solder. The LED body is plastic, so it doesn't take kindly to a lot of hot air. I used hot air to remove the old LED and completely destroyed it in the process. To solder the new LED, I scraped away a small area of the solder mask on the ground nearby the part. I then used an iron on that exposed area and let the heat flow over to the LED pad. The pins were easy after that.

Quoted from herg:

I replaced one for a friend, and he bought them from Mouser. They're not in stock now, though:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingbright/AAAF5051-04/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugliyn2FzUcZq839xaPMqTuhfWQU%252bJttn%2fwHgSh20JsMA%3d%3d
Edit:
Looks like Digikey has them, but a good bit more expensive:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kingbright/AAAF5051-04/754-1828-1-ND/4898058

Thanks for the info! The cost of the new board is $20 plus $10 in shipping, so being able to replace the LEDs for ~$6 a pop make sense (assuming it is a crazy hard job to do). With a broken board, I figure it is worth trying.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Thanks for the info! The cost of the new board is $20 plus $10 in shipping, so being able to replace the LEDs for ~$6 a pop make sense (assuming it is a crazy hard job to do). With a broken board, I figure it is worth trying.

The parts are super small so you will need some skill/experience with the hot air station to do them. Make sure to have a magnifier. After seeing experienced Herg do mine I don't think I will ever be trying to do them myself.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

The parts are super small so you will need some skill/experience with the hot air station to do them. Make sure to have a magnifier. After seeing experienced Herg do mine I don't think I will ever be trying to do them myself.

Wise words.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from louvnj:

I haven't talked to JJP about replacement yet, but I have about 10 single board 7.5v GI boards that either have 1 color out, or 1-2 colors that start flickering and then mostly go off after the game has been on for a few minutes. I think a few have been bad for a long time, but they were under the mini playfields or in back by the emerald city where they're not very noticeable. It wasn't until a couple of the sling GI's started acting up that I went in test mode to try and tally them up. Must be heat related, as none of the same P/N board LEDs on the inserts have any issues. 3rd party replacement of the LEDs might be nice for someone to do in the future.

Curious to know which colors are out on yours. Looking at the data sheet, the red channel is rated for a lower voltage than the other two.

Screen Shot 2017-05-02 at 1.57.55 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2017-05-02 at 1.57.55 PM (resized).png

From: http://datasheet.octopart.com/AAAF5051-04-Kingbright-datasheet-22122279.pdf

#12 6 years ago

The forward bias voltage IS lower on the red, but the controller ICs are constant current controllers. It's still possible that they are being over driven, but it's not like they're just giving all three colors the same voltage and hoping for the best.

#14 6 years ago

The Lumex are all discontinued or out of stock, so I don't see any benefit there.

The SunLED ones seem like they might be worth trying. All the specs are the same other than the brightness (mcd). The color wavelength is the same, but due to the different brightness output, they might end up not matching as well.

I think if I were buying, I'd get the Kingbright, even though they are a bit more expensive. If I couldn't get them, the SunLED would be my next option.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from herg:

The Lumex are all discontinued or out of stock, so I don't see any benefit there.
The SunLED ones seem like they might be worth trying. All the specs are the same other than the brightness (mcd). The color wavelength is the same, but due to the different brightness output, they might end up not matching as well.
I think if I were buying, I'd get the Kingbright, even though they are a bit more expensive. If I couldn't get them, the SunLED would be my next option.

Thanks, Herg.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from dtowndobe:

Not sure why JJP would assign a part number to it unless they're refurbishing returned boards themselves.

Just for reference, this is a typical means of inventory control in electronics. We do the same thing here. Database with our part numbers is cross referenced to manufacturers part. This means if a vendors part number changes, or we decide to buy an equivalent part elsewhere, our part number remains consistent. In some cases we can have up to a dozen vendors with their own part numbers on an approved vendor list (AVL) for a single part that is used in our assemblies.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Curious to know which colors are out on yours. Looking at the data sheet, the red channel is rated for a lower voltage than the other two.

From: http://datasheet.octopart.com/AAAF5051-04-Kingbright-datasheet-22122279.pdf

It's pretty much random which color doesn't work or flickers then stays out. Two or three boards seem to have 2 colors acting up. I tried to make a concrete list of what color is out on which board but sometimes certain ones will work then not work, so it's confusing. In test mode immediately after power up, only LEDs which are totally dead will be out, so in white mode, I get almost everything white. But within 2-4 minutes, colors start flickering and dropping out, to where at least 10 boards have something out. But again, all the inserts stay white and work perfectly, despite being the same exact board. fyi, I bought my WOZ new direct from JJP in Nov 2014 and it is only on when we're playing it and it's on a UPS. I would think games on location would fare far worst than mine, unless there was a group of bad boards at that time.

#18 6 years ago

I ordered 5 Kingbright LEDs and will try my hand a replacing them on my extra board. Also, I noticed a second board with a bad LED (no blue). I'm happy that I hung onto my stereo vision micro-dissection microscope from 20+ years ago and all my forceps (used to have to dissect caterpillars for my undergraduate research job).

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Just for reference, this is a typical means of inventory control in electronics. We do the same thing here. Database with our part numbers is cross referenced to manufacturers part. This means if a vendors part number changes, or we decide to buy an equivalent part elsewhere, our part number remains consistent. In some cases we can have up to a dozen vendors with their own part numbers on an approved vendor list (AVL) for a single part that is used in our assemblies.

Gotcha. Thanks!

#20 6 years ago

Just replaced the LED on two boards and it was much easier than I expected. I'd even put it in the easy category. (This was also my first SMD repair.) Having a hot air rework station,a pair of forceps, and solder paste was all that was needed.

#21 6 years ago

I had a digital scope ($15 from eBay) just to make sure I knew the orientation of the LED on the board.

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#22 6 years ago

First board was a satellite with no other components. I did have the heat on too high of a temp and started to melt the casing of the LED.

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#23 6 years ago

Second board was one of the node boards with one LED (used for the GI). I dialed the heat back and it took about 5-10min to replace.

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#24 6 years ago

And for those that want equipment, I got these from Amazon.

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#25 6 years ago

Nice work.

FWIW, with a steady hand, you can do down to 0805 at least, and sometimes 0603 components with a (small, low power) iron, and don't need to do hot air rework. Stuff like this I do with a Weller WM120 and a set of SMD tweezers. Sometimes that can be a lot easier than trying not to blow half the components around the one you're replacing off their pads.

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