(Topic ID: 149373)

Where is the KISS code?

By TheRave

3 years ago

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  • 4,231 posts
  • 349 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by HoneyBadger
  • Topic is favorited by 35 Pinsiders


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#14 3 years ago

"Wise pinball collectors keep their wallets closed and pants zipped".

Patience is key.
If a game is worthwhile, Stern produces additional runs and does code updates.
If not the title goes in the "vault".
You have to watch the industry market.

KISS is not getting another run.
Plenty of LEs still sitting with distributors in boxes collecting dust.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

How do you know kiss isn't getting another run?? They are still being made right now ....

Distributor sales have slowed down significantly after initial release. Primary stock remains stagnant. LE and Premium sales have stalled. Orders are trickling from other parts of the world. Annual fiscal year cost raises did not help matters. Seqsequent title sales continue to outpace this machine. Secondary market of machines indicates potential increases of private sales, but this is speculative until additional market data is recorded.

These points coupled with other industry indicators based on experience and professional discussions.

These are the realities of pinball production.
This is how production determinations are made.
We are nearing what is called the "odds and evens" point.

Unless Stern does something to significantly update the ruleset and game code along with game reliability, thereby increasing its popularity, this assesment is certain.

Many collectors would still prefer to own the original Bally game, as it is more collectible right now overall, but only time will tell if this holds true in the long run.

#49 3 years ago

Just a kind and simple reminder.
Code updates do not fix game mechanical design problems.
Temper your expectations.

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from ejg10532626:

Stern knows it can get away with this--I think Kiss sold better than anything had in a long time for them.

First part, completely accurate.
Second part, highly inaccurate.

Stern will certainly release the update within the next few months, but whether it "saves" the game is questionable.
People have "moved on".
Defenders of the game are normally huge KISS fans, but not necessarily hardcore pinball machine collectors clamoring for new code.
Watch the next 60 days.

Remember it took 3 years to get MET code to its current state, and there was a large number of requests from every source. The cry is not the same for KISS.

#81 3 years ago
Quoted from Iceman5000:

Yep, that's why most distributors have a 60 to 90 day wait right now for Kiss pros. Lol.

The Pinball Company
KISS Pro, Premium, and LE all available for IMMEDIATE purchase and shipment.
These are all currently stocked at baseline Stern distributor pricing.
KISS pros last check was 3 total in the warehouse.
No 60-90 day waiting necessary.
Call Brooke or Nick. 573-234-2234

Game Room Guys
KISS Pro, Premium, and LE all available for IMMEDIATE purchase and shipment.
These are all currently stocked at baseline Stern distributor pricing.
KISS pros last check was 5 total in the warehouse.
Shakers motor available for immediate installation from the distributor.
Installation is FREE.
Game packing and shipping is FREE.
No 60-90 day waiting necessary.
Call Heidi. 616-785-7353

This is only two game platinum level distributors.
5 minute search without have to dig through game sources.
If you need more examples to find other KISS NIB games, PM me.
If you want another duplicate machine, feel free to buy one, they are actually pretty close to you.
You could own another copy for your collection in a couple of days.
It is not like they are rushing off the shelves, especially after Christmas.

I must have "overlooked everybody does research when buying machines in this hobby" that has so tactically been described to me, so I must be in complete error.
I do not like to do this type of posting, but do people need to do homework.

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from Iceman5000:

So you pick the 2 distributors that have the highest prices. I said "most" distributors. Nobody on pinside with half a brain would buy from either one of these, unless they want to pay $500 to $1000 more than they have to. Why do you think they have stock?


Another distributor "for the road", all versions of the machine currently in stock.
I have several dozen I can post here, but I have made my point.

Using price as as a defense, that was never even mentioned in your "most" distributors is weak argument.
Your point was they were "not available".

They are available in significant quantities and people pay whatever they believe to be fair in their own mind.
Why are you arguing with me about the prices anyway?
I don't care what you believe is fair, because if a person $10k on a NIB AMH, great.
Ultimately, this will effect the price market, but there is nothing I can do about that now.

If you do not like the price, do what I do.
Go "underground" and use whatever networking you have to get your best deal, no problem here. I have done the "wheel and deal" since 1988.

Stern's code release better be good (and I hope it is), because this game continues to slide downwards slowly with operators. That is the current situation until a significant update. Operators are already preparing to "trade up" or "dump" this title, if this is not properly fixed. They are NOT happy.

#121 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Not ONE has ever held Stern accountable for pinball code issues. It's just completely off their radar.

Yet NIB owners continue to claim they were "deceived" when it comes to code.
If new collectors keep drinking the Stern coding "Cool Aid", not much the community can do to fix the problem.
Licensing of themes does not seem to effect the willingness of Stern to finish the code properly, ever.
WWE or NASCAR anyone?
Extremely popular in the certain "worlds".
Especially with fanboys who like to dress up in spandex and climb on chairs.

Distributors don't make a fuss either, until sales start stalling.
Some are getting "leary" now though, and preorders are cautious for many titles.
They are watching the market closely.
Operators have significant influence, but it takes some time to get the steam engine running based on circular feedback.
Heaven help us again if GB does the same thing as GoT, and shuddering of what would happen like with Xmen, Avengers, WoF, KISS, WWE and many others.

I still don't know why collectors do not at least play the game as a test or on location early enough to make a proper judgement.
Things really do stand out quickly with just a few dollars of gameplay.
It is not that hard to find what you are looking for, do a location search.
I remember playing one of the earliest runs of LOTR back in 2003 in Las Vegas.
Put a couple of hours under my belt and made a good quality assessment.

I realize a person *might* miss out on a LE, but generally premiums have most of the features anyway.
Not that I would mind have a real backglass again on some of my later machines, but that is not worth an extra $1000. The only backglasses that are worth $1000 or more are prototypes or the original art, and good ones at that. Those do not even go in machines, but on walls in frames protected.

I own one late model "modern" Stern for good reason right now and it is not because of pinball budgetary concerns.

#131 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

I am not exactly sure what is going in the LE's can be considered a real backglass in the "classic" sense. It is a piece of glass with the artwork stuck on to it. Not direct screened/printed like we all are use to. Much cheaper than a "real" backglass.

I though SM Black was screened with silver mirroring in 2007? Is not Whoa Nellie a proper backglass? I don't know what Stern is doing now to cut corners.

2 weeks later
#307 3 years ago

I did not realize people bought pinball machines for their toppers. I learned something new again today.

I wish Stern the best, but they are continuing to lose trust in customers and operators.

#331 3 years ago

"SDTM" KISS Head Correction:

No one needs to reduce coil power, switch coils, or lower lock out time.

Here is an old tech trick:

If you use a small ramp protector inside Gene's mouth, you can redirect the pinball to the left or right however you wish.

Pick the side, and make small bends as necessary.

You can even use a piece of aluminum sheet metal, if you do not have one. Cut it with tin snips, use bent pliers to shape, and file the edges. Mount by flat screw or profesional epoxy.

This requires little modification.
It prevents SDTM.
It will not be seen, if done with aesthetics in mind and a bit of care.

2 weeks later
#465 3 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

I know, but obviously it wasn't profitable enough to keep going.

Actually Pinball 2000 WAS turning a profit and GROWING. The WMS management at that time no longer wanted to invest into projects that that requires long term research, development, and lead times to gain profit.

Watch "Tilt! - The Battle to Save Pinball" if you want to know more about the basics of the situation with George Gomez and others. Most people including pinball designers and staff for caught off guard for the reasons I just mentioned.
They were give ZERO notice, and were just told to "go home" on Friday.

I remember when some of my friends were out of a job with no way to pay bills.
Some got lucky and were transferred to the slot machine division, the rest went onto areas like Namco.

#468 3 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

I guess I just can't wrap my head around how anyone would want to shut down a moneymaking aspect of a business.

Because making pinball machines is hard, time consuming, and slow with personality clashes with designers.
Particularly when you have to gamble with licensed theme costs.
Slot machines and redemption requires less effort, and the management had better control of the situation without "entrenched" people of the pinball industry.
They were "shooed" out the door.
This was not the era of Harry Williams or David Gottlieb.

Time, cost, and quality.
Pick two out of three which determines the overall profit margin.

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