(Topic ID: 149373)

Where is the KISS code?

By TheRave

4 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 4,247 posts
  • 349 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by finnflash
  • Topic is favorited by 39 Pinsiders


Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 284 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

20200215_141215 (resized).jpg
IMG_5550 (resized).jpg
IMG_5549 (resized).jpg
824c85533f4594edd0e9a8cf7dc1457e176efa06 (resized).jpg
2B46656A-5C43-421D-B4F9-A94FA43C8BC0 (resized).jpeg
D8C7712D-2039-40CE-AB62-3DD48D3D1988 (resized).jpeg
50661386_1077904665724439_1220436401930108928_n (resized).jpg
B5EE1ECE-9803-4A1C-A9F5-12612EEE7D76 (resized).png
F8B5B48A-63FD-4F5E-B43B-1BC78631F22F (resized).jpeg
kiss-light-up-tongue (resized).jpg
15438641815028122868220878799967 (resized).jpg
88f72395a34c581417854ede57ae2497c18acea8 (resized).jpg
7676997e0056624a751164352c14a8024c1e428f (resized).jpg
A623535D-CA21-43EC-9CD4-EBCD474321FA (resized).jpeg
giphy (resized).png

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider vireland.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

276 posts in this topic match your search for posts by vireland. You are on page 1 of 2.
#469 4 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

I guess I just can't wrap my head around how anyone would want to shut down a moneymaking aspect of a business.

See: Konami. Same thing, new decade.

#497 4 years ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

Looking at Kiss and when I played it at Texas Pinball festival one Kiss pin had Flipper Fidelity Speakers and sub and the sound was AMAZING! It sounded so much better than my ACDC which has FF speakers also. Is this just the spike system? What is the game changer for sound on Kiss?
Thanks and I am rooting for code also!

Haven't seen a KISS in person, but maybe Mono (AC/DC) vs Stereo (KISS)?

1 week later
#713 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's the #2 earning game right now, so it's not like operators are crying for an emergency code fix.

Playmeter has it as #8. Who has it at #2?

#717 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Maybe the game is getting stale because of code. Time for an update.

Haha! I doubt most location players even notice the code issues. I think Kiss was #2 a month or two ago, but falling to #8 is a pretty big drop. "For sale" ad rush incoming...

#720 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Coinbox pinball podcast earning report March 12
1. Game of Thrones 26%
2. Walking Dead 12%
3. Family Guy 11%
4. Star Trek 11%
5 WOZ 9%
6 South Park 8%
7 Elvis 7%
8 Kiss 6% (Needs Code)
9 Hook 6%
10 EBD 5%
I guess the players do know something is wrong.

No Metallica? PlayMeter has Metallica at #2 this month. At least everyone agrees on GoT earning.

#723 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

That's the results from one location. I'm guessing they don't have Metallica.

Ah! Not familiar with that podcast, but seeing Hook, EBD, and Elvis on a top 10 was a headscratcher! Thanks for the explanation.

Is that a single location, or is he/she reporting a route?

#726 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Yeah it's the report from one location. With Elvis , Family Guy & South Park bringing in more play than Kiss it seems unusual. They even stated on the podcast they were shocked and mentioned players were upset about code (speculation).

Yeah, if it's all in one location, there are probably more serious "players" there than casual route variety players, so I could see it. But alone in the wild, I doubt most casual players note the software issues, though they may have an overall "meh" feeling and not know why. Explains why multi-location playmeter mag and this single location podcast both agree that KISS is at #8 with a millstone.

#854 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

The code drops tomorrow
It's only ... A day ... Awaaaayyyyyy


Don't you mean...


#920 4 years ago
Quoted from sebseb12:

is it normal that the letters KIS (at the left) are illuminated continuously?

This was reported by someone else. Doing a factory reset solved it.

#934 4 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

They just posted about it and it's coming again maybe even better now then last week

Tomorrow? (Perpetually)


1 month later
#1672 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffsarcade:

So, what's the rumor for next KISS code release date?

Tomorrow. Again.


1 week later
#1676 4 years ago
Quoted from thundergod76:

At this point if you're still not happy with the code you should just sell it. Latest code is a big step in the right direction IMO.

I agree, but the useless cities that do nothing are a major red flag screaming "hey, I'm missing!"

If they had just left them out until they were ready to do something, it wouldn't even be noticed. But the city/song selection is literally the first thing you see...

#1679 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

uh oh....Better sell your machine....Or shut up!!

Hahaha...it's not even my machine, but I can tell when something's missing. My point was, why even HAVE it in the software if it does nothing? All it does is invite complaints. Just leave out the cities until they DO something, problem solved. But it's too late for this title.

#1684 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

That's got to be tough to colorize the live action dots.
Update on my machine. To make room for Ghostbusters LE, I had to move the machine to a friend's house. Once I buy a bigger place, I will take it back. Hopefully by then, the code will be close to complete.

Supposedly the extra level of difficulty with KISS digitized video is they don't have a reference for the footage in real life like they did for Iron Man, for example.

1 week later
#1687 4 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

Still no word?

Last I heard was tomorrow...but I heard that the day before, too.

2 weeks later
#1701 4 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

The game was bad when I bought it, bad when I sold it, and continues to be bad, unless, of course, you don't mind glaring omissions like the cities doing nothing and the CHEESEBALL call-outs by (I think) Gene Simmons (you kept your end of the bargain.....)

Paul Stanley (or a sound-alike) does the callouts you're talking about.

#1704 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

...although Stern is slow, they don't seem to just abandon games very quickly.


Wheel of Fortune. Never forget.

And for the record, I think KISS will end up being a great pin. With the last update it went from "meh" to fun. All we need is some Lyman magic to get it to great.

#1706 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I still think it's a very fun pin as is now and will only get better. I have no horse in the race as I don't own it anymore. Just don't like waiting on code so will wait in future before purchase.

I have faith Lyman will shore it up. It definitely needs the cities to DO something, and it should definitely have a unique song for KISS Army Multiball - especially with all you have to do to GET there. The last update moved the ball a LONG way toward the goal. I'm hoping the next code update at least gets it into field goal range.

#1709 4 years ago
Quoted from wontwa:

While I like the game fine, I'm sort of confused regarding the above comments of Lyman stepping in to clean up the code/make it a masterpiece. This is a Lonnie game, right? Has Lyman stepped in on other games that weren't his to clean them up?
Re: the example regarding TWD above - TWD started out as a Lyman game. While I think it would be great if Lyman stepped in to work some magic on this, I can't help but think is wishful thinking on some KISS owners behalf?

1.28 was Lyman cleaning up the underwhelming original code, at least according to the post here:

Also, Lonnie and Lyman are often credited on the same game, so it's not like it's never happened.

#1714 4 years ago
Quoted from fliperz:

UUUUUUUGH Is it me or does Kiss seem like the most incomplete game out there?

Wheel of Fortune. Never Forget.

That said, there are things that are unfinished (Kiss Army multiball doesn't even have its own song currently), but the last update did move the code forward a LOT from where it started.

2 weeks later
#1743 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Isn't super ramps a random award? I play rock and roll all night then shout it out loud as my two songs before multiball. Usually if I get thru those multi ball will be lit.

Rock and Roll all night followed by Deuce (which is a breeze to finish as a side effect in a multiball due to the shifting shot markers) is the way I usually go. Then Lick it Up followed by Hotter than Hell if I'm doing really well. I hate Deuce as a song (it makes no sense, and I keep imagining he's saying "so drop a deuce"), but it's really good as a strategic pick.

#1745 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Yeah Deuce is pretty good. Why do you do hotter than hell? I like the song but the drops are hard for me to not end up draining and consistently light the shots. It seems to be a lucrative song though.

I only do Hotter then Hell as a "qualifier" song to get me to the next multiplier lever, and as soon as I start it, I try to get into a multiball to finish it off quickly. For me, it's easier to polish off as a side effect of multiball than laboring to actually hit specific shots interleaved with target hits in single ball. But I always use it as the song before the next multiplier lever, so either 2nd or 4th song, never 1st or 3rd.

1 week later
#1752 4 years ago
Quoted from Barakawins1:

Where's the kiss code? One year since release!

The answer is almost always...tomorrow...tomorrow...



#1754 3 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

relax kiss pinball is finished. no ghosting issues. call it a day or a year!

It's definitely not done. With a number of confirmed bugs and incomplete features (cities), it definitely needs at least a little more polish.

#1762 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

They really need a test coded into the diagnostics for the head.

It would not be nearly so confusing if they hadn't reversed the adjustments for the head kickers. That's the core of most of the head-related problems, IMO. People aren't adjusting what they think they are.

#1763 3 years ago
Quoted from Kingpin22:

For some reason when there is 3 to 4 balls locked it can't get them out. I tend to shoot two quick shots to Gene in LG to get that shot over with and still have ball save in case of balls getting shot straight down the middle. That's when I get stuck every time if there are balls locked prior to LG multiball. Very frustrating and it can be duplicated every time.

So you have two balls locked and shoot two more into the head when LG starts and it can't get those two up and out?

1 week later
#1778 3 years ago
Quoted from finnflash:

I know, i keep wondering if i should upgrade to an LE.

I believe now is the time. Once the software is polished (one or two more releases, probably) prices will go up. You won't be able to get killer LE prices like $5900-$6550 that can be negotiated currently if you don't care about mods like the topper, etc.

#1781 3 years ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

"Kiss Code is Coming Tomorrow"

Stranger Things have happened.


#1792 3 years ago
Quoted from volkdrive:

With current code, I agree with TimeBandit. Installed my own Kiss soundtrack and it is way more enjoyable......there has to be another update coming though. Too many unfinished areas in the code.

Not to mention outright bugs.

#1796 3 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

I know of two LEs here in CA that sold within the last couple months for $6400 and $6500. Both of those had the $400 topper plus another $200+ in mods.
Personally, I thought about upgrading my Pro to an LE. I played an LE recently and the only thing that tempted me to upgrade was the RGB grid lighting. I could do without all the other stuff. So instead of dropping an additional $1.5K plus to upgrade, I put colored gels in my grid lighting to spice it up from that plain all white look. I probably won't be upgrading to an LE now...

The thing that hooked me on the LE was the BEAUTIFUL cabinet. It doesn't photograph well, but that foil base with overprint on the cabinet makes for a very cool looking reflective metallic cabinet in a lit room. Also, the mirrored backglass is very, very nice. The grid lighting isn't the only thing that's RGB. The whole machine turning red when in Demon Multiball and Pink in Lovegun multiball is cool.

I'm not sure I'd buy another LE, but this was too good to pass up for what I paid (substantially less than $6k after ditching the topper and other mods I didn't want, which is awesome for an LE). It's definitely a buyers market for KISS LE machines. I do believe the code will get finished and that will change - fast. The LE is a beautiful machine just needing the code polish to match.

#1800 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Poor code support = poor sales for this title (shame on you Stern!). Plus it wasn't Borg's best design either. The art is fantastic though!

I have faith in Lyman's polishing abilities. He's probably the best coder they have, and he's supposedly on the case.

#1803 3 years ago
Quoted from wontwa:

Having just seen KISS with my my son (and it being his first concert), liking the band when I was a kid, generally liking the game on a surface level, and shopping for a newer pin - I really wish Stern would make some sort of reference that they're working on code so that I could feel good about getting one.
But having been an early on NIB X-Men owner... I guess the wait continues.

There are a substantial number of bugs left in the code, lighting issues are present at times, plus both KISS Army and Rock City multiball do not even have unique music, and Rock City Multiball is clearly running with the most basic of dots.

All of that together means there's another update or three coming. At the cheap prices Used HUO Premiums and LEs are actually selling for (forget the asking price, they are really mid-low $5's Premium and high $5s to low $6s LE), if you negotiate hard, you're not getting burned if you end up reselling it, and you will have fun with it right now - it's very enjoyably dumb fun presently, with substantial value upside when the code gets updated.

#1813 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Has anyone tried lowering the playfield multiplier to 1 song completion instead of 2? I saw Trent today and he recommended that setting and I really like it better. The only settings I have outside of factory are the grid completions for grid MB is set to 1 and the multiplier set to 1. The only issue with the multiplier setting change is that it carries over from ball to ball so lets say I complete a song on my first ball and have 2x playfield lit. When I drain the multiplier goes away, but when I finish the next song it gives me 3x. It would be great if there was a setting that would allow you to have each song completion give you a multiplier but it resets back to 0 when you drain. That would give you some pretty epic scores if you're on a heater.
I just feel like the multiplier should be more accessible to average players. I think the way it's programmed with the two shots to get a multiplier makes sense for more advanced players though because you can plan it out to light up your multi balls and then if you drain you can complete your song on your next ball, get 2x going and then start your multiball. It's just hard for me to complete 4 songs in a game much less the number it takes to get to colossal bonus lit.
I hope we get more code soon. It has been since April for the last update and I think we're due. Hopefully soon!

I left mine on 2 songs per multiplier level. It's actually fine for me if there weren't so many scoop bounce-outs. I get like 70% bounceouts from the right flipper and can only reliably hit the scoop and have it stick with the left flipper. It just seems like the scoop opening is too narrow.

The software has room for improvement, but it's still a fun game as-is.

#1816 3 years ago
Quoted from lodgingdolphin:

Do you have a cliffy installed in the scoop? I was getting a ton of rejected shots after I installed one, but it seems to be improving over time. I agree, the pin is fun as is and will only get better with future updates.

Nope. It's naked because I couldn't imagine making it HARDER to hit by adding a cliffy. It really seems like another 1/4" width and it would have been good, but it's too narrow as-is. So many bounce-outs, especially when you NEED a shot.

#1828 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

The problem KISS has, is what is there in the game to do? As of now, it's playing for the 3 multi balls. Compare completing songs to Metallica and AC/DC.
Compare that with GOT, when completing houses gets you to Hand of the King, then completing more gets you to the Iron Throne. Star Trek, you play to get to the 5 year mission (other objectives along the way too).
I really hope Lyman gets the code right. It will do wonders for this machine.

5 Multiballs:
Demon, Lovegun, KISS Army, Heaven's on Fire (mini-wizard), and Rock City (Wizard - unfinished)

You have 2 more multiballs to achieve!

#1845 3 years ago
Quoted from J-drum11:

Hey everyone! I'm new to this and really want a kiss LE preferably Nib
But after all this research on codes and genes head vuk and stern play field problems , I'm getting very discouraged to buy anything at all !!! I have an oppurtunity to buy An LE. Within first two hundred #s
And 400 and after! I'm looking for an honest helpful answer here on what numbers souls I lean to for maybe less issues if any at all .
Low # or higher ( maybe probs resolved on higher? Don't know)
Anyway , love this site ! Very informative ! I apologize if posted in wrong thread but I read all this one and all of you seem to know what's going on? Thank you

Don't worry about it. The issues mentioned are concentrated, but that tends to distort reality. Chances are you'll get a machine that's fine. I'd look for a used HUO KISS LE. With some hard negotiating, you should easily be able to get into the mid $6k range, and if you sell off things like the topper, etc, get it down towards $6k even, which are killer prices. I fully expect the values to rebound once there's another code update, but even if they don't, the machine is fun as-is. You definitely want at LEAST a Premium. The pros don't have the RGB lighting and that really adds to the game when the color of the whole machine changes in various modes.

#1846 3 years ago
Quoted from J-drum11:

Thank you for the replies so far!
I appreciate the input !
I'm not buying this to flip for $
I like the machine and theme and would look great in my basement!
It's a big investment and and I know it's going to open up a whole new $$ collecting problem! Haha
Just curious , do new and better codes up value or devalue games?
Or certain LE #s

LE number order doesn't really mean much to most people IMO.

#1851 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I think Stern will make the code better. The last update was a big improvement but the game still needs some polish.

Not to mention lots of bugs to fix.

1 week later
#1853 3 years ago

At least Stern confirmed on their FB page officially that a KISS code update is coming. There is hope!

#1859 3 years ago
Quoted from Barakawins1:

I think they removed that post.

Weird. Dunno why they'd do that. It was THEIR reply.

#1861 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Sure wouldnt mind seeing some Metallica update too!

Another one after just getting one out of the blue? Let's not be greedy!

#1872 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Players are obviously tired of the half baked code.

One of the guys who has it on route says it's one of his top earners, still. He was posting numbers in one of the KISS threads, they were nothing to sneeze at.

#1877 3 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Such a shame as its so smooth , and is the best looker of the bunch

Sound is no slouch, either. Much better sound quality than Metallica.

#1881 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

interesting. Our lowest earning Stern of all the ones we have on route.

Pro or Premium?

#1882 3 years ago
Quoted from marcos:

It's still my best earning Stern on route...although GB may overtake it at some point.

Pro or Premium?

#1884 3 years ago

Seems like the Premium KISS are the earners on location, and I can see why. Without the "flash" of things like the levitating ball, and ball spitting Gene on the LE/Premium, the Pro would be a pretty boring table for a casual player. If I remember right, the guy that posted about KISS Premium being his top earner had a huge amount of location plays on it already. Paid for it completely already.

#1888 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

actually the ball does spit out on the pro, just no physical lock mech under him. There is actually VERY few differences in the pro v prem for Kiss. Some games there are, but kiss is not one of them and the levitation ball trick is pretty meh after the first time you see it.

But the RGB lighting mode changes the pro doesn't have are impressive. Big difference for a casual player when the whole playfield turns red in demon multiball, or pinkish in lovegun mode, etc. There's clearly some difference to the casual player since KISS Pros seem to do meh on location and Premiums do very well.

#1889 3 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Kiss could have been one of Sterns top sellers if they hadn't abandoned the code.

On their facebook page, Stern themselves said another update is coming. That was only about 3 weeks ago.

#1890 3 years ago
Quoted from clg:

KISS was one of those Stern games where it seemed hard to justify the boost for a premium/le over a pro. Despite not liking the band I sort of like the game. Hope they finish the code soon.

In general I think the LEs are a ripoff, but I went for an LE because the cabinet is WAY better than the Pro/Premium with that metallic finish, the mirrored backglass is very nice, the RGB lighting effects in the inserts and GI can't be underestimated, and the ball levitation is cool. The only LE I've ever bought, but with the depressed KISS market, I paid less than the going rate for a Premium.

#1892 3 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Yeah but thats what they said about the last update more than a few months before. If they would have kept small updates frequent and adding game features, Kiss would have not lost value, but with the feel of abandonment people dumped them. I also liked the look of the LE more than the pro so decided to go that way as well, and a PREM is worth the light show IMO.

Not being happy with the pace of updates and the code being abandoned are two completely different things. The code is clearly not abandoned because they've said another update is coming. WHEN it comes isn't known, but it is coming, according to Stern. So not abandoned.

#1902 3 years ago
Quoted from marcos:

Always Pro. Well, with the exception of X-MEN... I wanted a kick-ass new machine to start off the business a few years ago, in addition to the older pins I already had.
Premiums/LE's cost too much, especially these days, and sometimes the extras on them can cause more headaches on location when they have issues. The Gene head on KISS Premium/LE is a good example of this.
It already takes long enough to "break even" on a Pro...why add $1500-$2500 more to it? Casual players will not pay more to play it, and very few have any clue there is another version of it.

KISS is a special case because it's not a location dud like WWE, but you can have HUO, barely played premiums all day long for a few hundred more than a NIB pro.

#1907 3 years ago
Quoted from Barakawins1:

I'm ready to trade mine. This is taking too long and the fun factor is starting to wear on me. Anyone have an ACDC to trade?

Yeah, that's gonna be a tough trade. There seems to still be decent demand for AC/DC and that's keeping prices up on the good ones.

#1909 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

talk about a route turd. AC/DC went of the deep end so it got sold. Seemed that players got tired of the convoluted strategy of play.
I undertand that home players like it (where they can figure out the ruleset better) but on route it only did well for a couple months before it dropped big time.

It's been in the top 10 of PlayMeter earning pins since it came out. This month it's #2, below Ghostbusters. KISS is #3, and Metallica is #4. Seems like your locations aren't big on music pins. How'd Metallica do for your customers?

1 week later
#1934 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

Anyway, you still confident that an update is coming a month ago?

That was about the time Stern posted it was coming on Facebook, but then they took that down, so maybe it didn't pass testing - or maybe they just wanted to wait and drop an expo bomb of a bunch of code updates and BM66 at once. Who knows?

#1939 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

If my KISS machine played anything like the one in that video I would love it. The ball goes in the scoop? The slings don't shoot it right down the drains? the Ace bumper doesn't shoot right down the right drain? The gene doesn't get clogged and have to search for the ball almost every time? maybe I should have bought a pro...

Sounds like you just need to fine-tune yours. I have an LE and everything except the scoop works fine, but it took a lot of trial and error adjusting and balancing to get it just right. The scoop, though, is just designed poorly. It's too narrow and shots always bounce out.

#1946 3 years ago
Quoted from davkonw:

Just waiting if the code comes out i will get a NIB . But till then I'm hanging on the cash.

You'll save at LEAST 20% doing it now. It's a buyer's market on KISS, and Stern already said more code is coming. If the code gets fixed well, prices will go back up.

#1961 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

Trying to figure out exactly how the 2x+ pf multipliers are earned? anyone know?

Yeah, finish a song, then the arrows will go white. The shot you take then will STAY white, and that shot will be 2X for the rest of that ball. If you finish two songs, you get to choose another shot to make 2x, AND the 2X global playfield multiplier (the one between the slings) will stay on until the end of the ball. So those shots that were 2x are now 4x until the end of the ball.

1 week later
#2008 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

WTB Kiss premium or LE

They're out there in droves, and cheap. It's a buyer's market on KISS if you believe an update is actually coming like Stern said. If you're haggling, used LEs as low as low 6's or high 5's, used Premiums in the mid-low 5's. I wouldn't bother with the Pros. The RGB lighting, especially, makes a huge difference on the LEs and Premiums.

#2011 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

Got excited for a second...Unfortunately I'm not seeing any LE's under $6800 and most over 7K...But I'll for sure keep my eyes open

Asking price is not sale price. You have to haggle - there are few or none replying to their KISS ad, so if they want it to sell you have a good chance. Also, if it has a topper, sell it and get back $250 off the sale price. I got an LE for me and a Premium for a friend at those prices, so it can be done. The price they were asking was much higher.

#2012 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

Got excited for a second...Unfortunately I'm not seeing any LE's under $6800 and most over 7K...But I'll for sure keep my eyes open

This LE is $6700, and could probably be had for $6300-6400.


They're out there.

#2015 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

Yeah I guess I'd have to dig around. if I can get a LE in the $5K range I'd probably go for it.

The one I got I had to sell the topper and some other uninstalled mods to get the price down. For an LE, the BEST case scenario is $5900, possibly with needing to sell a topper or something to get there. I don't think you can get an HUO LE for less than that currently. You should be able to get a stock or mostly stock HUO LE for $6300-6500 with not much haggling. But if new code drops and improves the game, that will reverse quickly, so the clock is ticking.

#2016 3 years ago

Yeah, but at only $500 off pre-order pricing, that's nowhere near the $6k LE he's looking for.

#2022 3 years ago
Quoted from fish1975tx:

It is really a shame how they have handled this game. I have only played it a few times at shows and in a league. Code doesn't seem like it does a whole lot and the straight down the middle drains are a disappointment for sure, the short ball saver doesn't always catch them.

Chronic SDTM is usually a badly set up KISS. If I get them, they're my fault, and it almost never happens.

#2029 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

That's a huge turnaround, and a very precarious and dangerous position for them to be in, more so when they're prosecuting a self-made pricing bubble whilst economic storm clouds gather over half the world.

Only half the world? More like three-quarters, at least. I can't think of any "economic powerhouse" that isn't facing some grim and imminent massive economic problems that threaten their stability. Britain? Brexit. Germany? Hosed. US? Unlimited QE threatens massive inflation. Saudis? Oil is in the toilet, and so is their economy. Russia? Worse than Saudis - with nukes. China? Years (decades?) of faking GDP will come crashing down, and it looks like soon. Italy? Portugal? Spain? France? All in trouble, and the EU is probably headed for collapse, so no bailout. The third world isn't going to be any help, either. So, yeah, precarious times to be doubling and tripling the retail price of your products. This isn't the epi-pen. We can live without NIB pins.

#2042 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

BM66 will get some code and then everyone will be complaining it needs more. Endless cycle with each game. Rinse. Repeat.

According to that guy that saw B66 played at Expo by that kid (that wasn't supposed to), it essentially is still BDK gameplay, so that's a big shortcut. Just customize for the lazy susan coffee can remodel and ship it.

#2044 3 years ago
Quoted from stoptap:

I've haven't got near wizard mode yet so don't know.
It's playable and a decent game but there is so much that needs polishing. There is practically no Status Screen. Surely Stern has a set Status Screen sub-routine that they can drop in each game and then tweak it as necessary ?

Rock City is the end Wizard Mode. It's pretty much still a framework, so I'd count it as not done. KISS Army and Rock City multiball modes both really should have their own music, too.

#2047 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Not a KISS code question but does anyone know where I can purchase these pinblades?


#2051 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Should probably start a where's the Batman 66 code stern thread now.

That's easy. It's in the BDK machines. Well, most of it, at least.

#2060 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

I was told by a distributor who frequently visits the factory that the KISS code is being worked on. I think it would be hard to predict when that drop will occur but it seems likely that we will at least one more code drop. Just have to be patient I guess.
I wish Stern would go to a more agile model of software release. Smaller releases, more often. If a new version introduces some bugs, great! It could help Stern with testing, incorporating user feedback/ideas and the pin owner can easily roll back to a more stable version if needed. Plus, wouldn't it be cool to get a new feature or mode update every 3 months instead of some big code drop at some far off, unknown date?
This is the model that many software companies are moving towards. What do you say Stern? Why not give it a try.

Stern said on their official Facebook page a couple months ago that a KISS code update is coming, so I believe there's at least one, if not two still coming. They put too much care into the design to let it rot with incomplete code. SOMEONE inside Stern is a KISS fan, fortunately.

#2066 3 years ago
Quoted from wontwa:

They deleted that post a day or two later.

Yes, but it WAS there. I believe they just pulled it because it wasn't imminent. But it IS coming.

#2077 3 years ago

My main four gripes:
1. Cities are vacant and do nothing right now.
2. KISS Army is bare-bones and clearly needs to be fleshed out.
3. Rock City is the saddest wizard mode I've seen in a long time. Complete fail once you get there to see it. Desperately in need of dots and music.
4. Still a number of bugs.

#2088 3 years ago
Quoted from Barakawins1:

I don't know about you guys but this turns me off completely. Stern takes a ton of money from the sales of these machines and they give two shits about you after they got your money. I'm sticking with the #1 pins in the industry Williams/Bally.

Jersey Jack has demonstrated repeatedly that they support with new code and features WAY past what they need to. That's more code support that you'll get from Stern OR Bally/Williams.

1 week later
#2118 3 years ago
Quoted from Barakawins1:

There is no mention of Kiss code.

The mention is exactly here:

#2121 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

This video is so confusing. You can see Metallica's everywhere. Ummmm... maybe that's because the code is great. I don't get how Stern doesn't see this or doesn't care. Seems like there's a pretty obvious correlation between having great code and selling a lot of games. It's like a catch 22, well we'll update the code if we sell x games, but we don't sell x games cause the code sucks. awww jeeeezz.

Seems pretty straightforward when he says "I think Lyman would want to work on Metallica forever."

Lyman is the reason that has been updated with great updates WAY past release. It's a passion project. Seems like most of the others are just a project for developers, or maybe they don't have the juice to get Gary to agree to do more code revisions (although I get the impression Lyman was doing the last "surprise" Metallica update on the side).

2 weeks later
#2174 3 years ago
Quoted from GotAQuestion:

So when can I look forward to a Led Zeppelin pin?

I'm sure the licensing is the problem. It's SUPER expensive to license Zep for anything, if they'll even agree to do it for your item.

1 week later
#2189 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

This game has been abandoned. Stern sells games on theme. Kiss apparently wasn't a popular theme. They've moved on to the next game. I think it's just time to accept it and move on.

Shockingly, it does GREAT on route.

#2201 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Disagree, the PRO's earn money on route and still sell. A great update will make the rest of the LE's sell, but probably at a discount. IMHO , the LE is a big rip off compared to the Premium. I bought the LE because I am a huge KISS fan. I regret it and should have bought the Premium. I have bought my last NIB LE from Stern EVER.

If you can get an KISS LE at a good price (face it, they're ALL on sale now, new and used), the LE is worth it because of the real mirrored backglass and the foil cabinet art. A beautiful machine. You can get a used LE for high 5's/low 6's, which is worth it, IMO. The code IS coming, it's just a question of how deep the update will be.

#2205 3 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

I have a Pro and have toyed with updating to a LE given the prices HUO LEs are selling for (which just keep dropping). But personally I can't justify the $2K difference it would cost me to do it, *assuming* I could even sell my HUO Pro in the low 4s, which I doubt I could.

If the code gets better the LEs will bounce up, so the best course is to get an LE cheap now and hold the Pro, betting on the coming code update to be big so the Pro is more valuable so you can sell the Pro for maybe 4800. That way you'd only have about $1000 difference on a used HUO LE priced to move (it can be had, I've done it for me and a friend at those prices - KISS sellers are motivated right now).

In addition to the foil cabinet (amazing in person, IMO) and the mirrored backglass, the LE has the levitating ball I love that starts lovegun (get the $50 mod that lights this up from Kimball's pinballs, well worth it), the actual KISS drop targets instead of standups, and the RGB lighting that's REALLY put to good use in the various modes to change the machine color and mood that the pro doesn't have. It's much more of an experience than the pretty dull Pro, IMO.

#2210 3 years ago
Quoted from thundergod76:

Great posts Sparky, Vireland, Charlie and Cobray! Nice to see some love for this game. Its not the greatest but it isn't a turd IMO. It's certainly not for everyone especially if you don't like the band or its music. To each his own.

Funny thing is, I'm not really and never have been a KISS fan, but the LE is so beautiful it kind of sucked me in, and I do enjoy playing it (especially with the levitating ball mod that illuminates one of the best "tricks" of the game that stern almost hides with no lighting back there).

#2218 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

That is NOT a real mirrored backglass. That is a piece of glass with something stuck to it. The art is 100% not printed onto the glass.
I am actually happy with the game play of my KISS. I am just bugged by the fact I paid for a machine that has features that are incomplete and could make it better. That there are bugs that still need to be addressed 18 months later. Again, if STERN were an automobile manufacturer, they would be out of business.
I agree that the LE cabinet art is the best of the 3, but not $1500 better. I don't play the side art.

I'll have to look at that backglass more closely. To the casual look, it seemed screened on.

Like I said before, when you can get an LE for less than $6k, it's a good deal, and right now that's very do-able.

#2223 3 years ago
Quoted from whisper:

Really hope wrestlemania gets some love.

I think that ship has sailed. The layout of that pin is crappy and I doubt software can fix it.

#2224 3 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

I think many people holding on to kiss rather than let go for under 6k, I know I am. hoping for new code.

Well, some are, but I've personally bought and helped others buy it for around $6k or just under, so not everyone is optimistic (which is great for buyers that get an LE for dirt cheap right now).

#2233 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

I liked the gameplay. The rules were terrible, but I've heard it's improved somewhat. What made me dump the game was the callouts. Cheesy AF. Had someone come up with a Pinball Browser substitute for that horrible voice, I might have kept it.

Band is cheesy. Callouts fit the theme well, IMO.

#2241 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Played about 10 games of kiss last night. I must say that grid multiball is one of the coolest modes in pinball. The light show on the premium is unreal. That mode just rocks. Even if stern doesn't have a huge update I hope they fix some of the super annoying bugs like how ball save is flashing when the ball fires out if genes head in multiball but doesn't save the ball. Pisses me off everytime cause I forget.
Does anyone know if changing the songs between balls when it isn't complete is a bug? I can't figure out why sometimes I goes to song select and other times it doesnt.

Pretty sure that's a bug.

#2266 3 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

STERN facebook page header has gone black again.......

Not black. I'm sure there's a hidden message, like last time...

#2268 3 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

Show me. ..looks black as an (edited content) to me however you look at it...

Okay, I just copied it and checked it in photoshop - nothing. Maybe you need to put it in a hex editor to see the message this time. Not interested enough to bother.

#2277 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Sorry guys, but Aerosmith just killed Kiss!

I wouldn't gloat too much. It's all sunshine and roses until the game ships and the updates don't come. For all we know Aerosmith could get worse support than KISS.

#2284 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Aerosmith is KISS. Same sounds, looks like same rules. Layout is practically identical.

Yep. Wasn't much design work done on the shots for Aerosmith, for sure. Took a KISS and essentially did a slightly more robust Shrek on it.

#2287 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I can't get over that it has the exact same modes, with pretty much the exact same shots, with the exact same sounds.
Some like to say that Star Trek and Spider-Man are similar. I can't think of 1 shared sound or mode.

Not EXACT same sounds...they did pitch shift them up.

#2291 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

I can't believe how similar it is. It's like they took out the star child area and put the jester lock in there and then added a mini playfield up the love gun ramp. It's crazy. It's like the same freak'n game.

Well, there IS one less pop bumper.

#2303 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Stern is cutting development costs I can tell...
2016: SM VE (Spider-Man retheme)
GB (New)
PBR (Whoa Nellie retheme)
BM66 (BDK retheme)
2017: AS (KISS retheme)
They are on a roll!

Technically PBR and BM'66 were boutique games for Pabst and KaPow respectively.

1 week later
#2323 3 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

you mean aerokiss?
not me!
this pin 90 percent kiss rehash!

They're almost mutually exclusive fan bases, and with the support KISS has received, I doubt many are anxious to put another unfinished music game in their collection that is almost exactly like the one they already have.

#2325 3 years ago
Quoted from shlockdoc:

I had technically said I would buy an LE then I heard the game and saw the layout in the video and could not cancel fast enough.

That Sparky, Jr voice was also a mistake that should not have been made. They should have gone a different way with the character performance, probably with a different voice actor.

#2328 3 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

Based on the videos it sounds so out of place and annoying. The artwork is sick, but missing Dream On, having rehashed KISS layout, you know lack of code, and annoying as hell jester I don't know how you guys are buying it for home. I'll throw some quarters in it on location, but no other way.

What do you mean "you guys?" Not me!

#2339 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Just noticed that on Stern's Facebook page, Bowen Kerins stated "Kiss code is already in terrific condition" to someone complaining to Stern about KISS code.
Look, I wanna see a KISS update badly but I gotta agree... KISS code is pretty good today. It could be EPIC with another layer of depth.

How about it gets *completed* before we start layering? Rock City is the definition of basic, and it's the Wizard mode! There's plenty left to finish in KISS.

#2357 3 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Really? I have a hard time believing that. And most critical is the stupid SDTM from Genes mouth, thats almost game breaking.
I played KISS on a location in Oslo last week, and yes, while they have "fixed" the sdtm by adding the ball saver...its a joke! as long as the ball goes 100 % straight into the trough it works, but if the balls delay 0.25 second because it hits the apron wall before going into the trough..No ball save! Jesus christ, It really pissed me off
It seems so lazy to not play test it enough and just adjust the angle of Genes mouth slightly to one side.
That aside, there is always something with the game that makes me play some rounds when I see it at tournaments or locations, I dont fancy Kiss music but it grooves with the pinball.

Adjusting the power of the kickout fixes this. I have a personal KISS and one I set up for a buddy on location and neither eject SDTM.

That said, it would help if Stern labeled the kickout properly. The VUK and kickout are reversed on the adjustment menu.

#2361 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Codewise - it would be nice if they polished up the wizard modes a bit. Heavens on fire has such cool lighting effects and is a better wizard mode than rock city currently. I really think they need to add some more pizazz to it. Base rules are fine as they stand. Remind me of Star Trek but with less polish.

Rock City is pathetic for a final Wizard Mode. Lame, sparse dots and doesn't even have its own song. There's a lot of loose ends they need to tie up to make KISS satisfying. Fingers crossed the next update does it, because it feels like it's gonna be the last one.

#2394 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I rate games for me. LOL. sorry you are so hurt over my objective ratings as I see them.

That is the definition of SUBjective, not OBjective. "As I see them" automatically makes the ratings SUBjective.

#2396 3 years ago

Since the next KISS update may be the last one, I made a new thread to put all the bugs that need to be fixed in one place so we can hopefully get everything addressed:


Whatever's contributed in the thread will be curated to the first post so Stern can have all the bugs known in one place, and all the practical wishlist items, too!

#2402 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

A controlled kick from a VUK, saucer, or kickback should NEVER got STDM. If it does, that's poor design.

It's not uncommon. The Sparky magnet from Metallica Premium will sometimes throw the ball SDTM, and due to the uncontrolled nature of the feature there's not much that can be done to change that.

#2413 3 years ago
Quoted from Hashman:

I think I've finally given up. I waited a year for Metallica and I was rewarded that time. Can't see it happening with Kiss. I too have spoken with my wallet and not bought a NIB Stern since. It's pretty disheartening.

You have quite a few months before it's been a year since the last KISS update.

#2415 3 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

You give up so easily ....shame as your missing out on the fun of other new titles put there...Kiss is a very payable and enjoyable machine as it is...

Word. Get a Batman '66 for some perspective on "unfinished."

#2417 3 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

Sorry mate not interested in lcd rubbish

I'm not promoting the LCD so much as pointing out that if the other person is upset with the state of KISS, it seems positively fantastically amazing compared to the state of the code on Batman '66.

1 week later
#2428 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Game is getting close to 2 years old and the cities still aren't coded. Thanks a lot Lonnie.

Cities didn't exist before last April update, though, right?

#2434 3 years ago
Quoted from thundergod76:

Doesn't look like Lonnie is working on KISS code...or much else these days.

That's his thinking face.

#2437 3 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Agree! It has become a consesus that the cities were supposed to be ahuge part of the game from start and therefore is a lacking feature.
But maybe as mentioned it was just for callouts.. After all, its Lonnie and it feels like he doesnt have the same grand visions for coding as dwight and lyman.

Seems like Lonnie's grand plans are limited to what's for lunch that day. Low motivation, by all signs.

#2452 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorry but I don't think assuming intentions for code development compares to a known design flaw that they couldn't fix on their end.

They COULD have fixed it (with a new arm for that diverter - watch the slow mo video) they just chose not to.

#2460 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I doubt Ritchie would say they are working on a fix and lie about it. I think they tried and couldn't come up with a permanent fix so took the road they did.

I don't think the decision was in his control. The fix is replacing that arm with one that has the correct curve. Not really that hard.

#2463 3 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I just ordered a NIB KISS LE, I believe a code update is coming. A code update came for my Hulk so I'm eternally optimistic on code updates now lol. Now if I can just avoid any Gene head problems, decal peeling, decal shrinking, and PF issues I'll be a happy camper...

I think those issues are overblown. I have a KISS LE at home and help maintain a KISS Premium on route (where it earns very well) and neither have had those issues, except the Gene head eject, which only required a power adjustment on the kickout (note that they're labeled backwards on the settings menu, BTW).

#2465 3 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

So did they implement my Star Child saucer eject fix or does it still dribble out?

Dribbles out. Never really bothered me since it's around the corner in the Star Child area. Seems like it's active enough for the job.

#2473 3 years ago
Quoted from Bearcat:

Off topic, but I am hoping someone can help. Our Kiss Pro has been, for lack of a better word, acting goofy. All of this started at once - here are a few examples:
Raising or lowering the volume quickly will cause the game to lock up - it then has to be restarted
On occasion it will play the wrong song - it will say, "Deuce" - the game plays as if it's Deuce, but it will play a different song
The backstage Pass now works about 60% of the time - it's not the switch, it knows the ball is there - it flashes and kicks it back out - but the rewards aren't given
Any ideas?

Dunno about 1, but 2 is on the bug list in the KISS bug thread here:
Pay attention to the song it plays vs the song the shots are for - it's always an immediately adjacent song.

3 IS the switch. It's making momentary contact. I had the same problem. Adjust the switch so it makes better contact and the problem will go away.

#2476 3 years ago
Quoted from Rhlufa:

This may be the wrong forum to ask this if so hopefully I can be redirected. I've had my Kiss Pro for just under a year and I'm getting the same issue over and over again in multiball. I shoot a ball into the Demon vuk and before it can kick out I get a second loaded and now two balls are stacked and the vuk can not eject them. I end up having to end my game to clear the double feed. Any suggestions.

If this is during Lovegun, it's a known bug.


#2489 3 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

Sorry for asking such a dumbass question BUT:
Just unboxed my Kiss LE. Everything is fine...but I can hardly hear the songs...if I raise the volume the effects and all get louder and louder...the music itself still stays too low ! Just found something in the adjustments called "background music"...did not help at all.
Anybody willing to help me out with a hint or two?

Go into the settings and change the music and speech attenuation in Adjustments->KISS adjustment 53 and 54. Note that these are counter-intuitive. A bigger number makes it softer and a smaller number makes it louder. Also under regular adjustments there's one for music volume. I have mine set to 1 there.

Oh, and FIRST THING, go to Kimball's Pinballs and get his Lovegun lighting mod. One of the best pin mods made. REALLY makes the beginning of lovegun with the levitating ball on KISS Premium/LE POP and it's dead simple to install.


Very fun game - enjoy it!

#2490 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I just don't get why Stern don't at least allude to a code update? Perhaps they don't want people to buy the game anymore.....

They have said numerous times in numerous places that one is coming.

#2492 3 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

I am a huge KISS fan, but the game sucks as it is. Let's be honest. It's boring as hell.
I will never buy another Stern until they clear this sh$t up. This is pathetic.

Ok, honestly, you just need another pin or two in your collection. KISS Prem/LE is fine for mindless fun, and it's really not that easy to get to the (unfinished) Rock City wizard mode. Do I want the bugs fixed, wizard mode tightened up, and some more content? Yes. Will I stop playing it? No. In fact, the KISS Premium I help maintain on route is one of the top earners, consistently. People in general like it. The real world is not pinside.

#2529 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

So I call BS on the those that whine about the rules being shallow. Perhaps these people are among the few pinball prodigies that are so good that they can become so bored with KISS rules after a few plays. But for the average pinballer, the rules are reasonably deep.

I don't think most are complaining about the depth, but more about the lack of imagination in the shots (shoot the arrows - forever!) and scenario which makes it kind of repetitive and boring because there's not much difference between most of the songs (except, for example, hotter than hell). So a "good" game is doing a lot of the same stuff the same way for a long time to get to a wizard mode that is about as basic as they come. It's there, but it's just an outline, really.

I may be wrong, but I believe THAT is the main knock on KISS, especially when you have Metallica to compare it to, with all the cool modes.

#2544 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

At least they got it right with the GOT LE art.

I think the GoT LE art is way uglier than the Premium. Too much brown.

#2562 3 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

i love how they brag about their code release .69 really. wowwwww
you pat yourselves on the back for releasing another beta code batch.
finish coding your damn pins already.

Last one was almost 3 weeks for .03 version improvement. This one is 16 days for .01 version improvement. They're getting slower, not faster.

#2564 3 years ago
Quoted from calprog:

Regardless of code Kiss is still a great game. When I have my pinball parties Kiss is the most played by far over the other 23 pins I have. It's really a fun game to play. Are we certain no additional code is coming? A nice update would be so cool about right now!!!

Stern has said it's coming multiple times. I believe we'll get at least one more.

#2568 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

They never said it's coming. They said stay tuned and that it was something the community was asking for. They never committed to it. If you have another source that says differently I'd like to see it because it would make me feel better about my game.

Well, yes, I do. Jody says CLEARLY "the team's working on a big code update for KISS" on the John's Arcade tour:

And it's not the ONLY time Stern or their representatives have explicitly said an update is coming. So, yeah, it's COMING. Calm down.

#2574 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Working on it isn't a comittment. Obviously they are not working on it ad it's been 10 months.

Well, if that clear, black-and-white statement straight from Stern, made AT their factory won't convince you, your delusion is beyond the point where I can help you. Would you care to put your money where your mouth is?

#2581 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Did I hear Jody correctly today when he said they are working on a big KISS update?

Hear him where?

#2583 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

On their Facebook video today.

"I don't know how big it will be, but I know the team is working on one."

Notice that he dialed back the "big" from his statement made before to John's arcade? Mind games from Stern to manage expectations?

#2594 3 years ago
Quoted from Tempest:

Figured I'd post here since it's probably the most monitored thread for the game...Now I can wait for code too!! Have yet to open, barely had enough time to drive it to our weekend place, hide it and haul ass back home. Really psyched to own this!!!

DEFINITELY order the Lovegun lighting mod right away. It's one of the best "improvement" mods of any pin out there. Really makes the Lovegun mode start with the levitating ball special.

#2595 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Actually, he was responding to the Facebook question in real time which asked about the "big" KISS code update. He then responded that the team was working on it but he was not sure how big because he didn't really seem to know. That was how I interpreted the comment.

Yes, but in the John's Arcade bit (bookmarked in the post above) he calls it a "big" update, which is what the question is referring to. Then in the answer here, he backs off his own "big" statement before by saying now he doesn't know how "big" it will be, but it's coming. So, seems like a change.

#2597 3 years ago
Quoted from grantwood911:

That was me that committed on the live tour about the code update, I do not own this game but my good friend rjdunn on here has it and the game is fun as can be played it quite a bit but the code is weak and when it seems like they put it on the back burner.witch sucks when you drop 8k on a pinball
I just picked up a Metallica (Pro) pro and he was ready to trade straight across for the premium kiss,but it is hard to complete with metallica music in my opinion.

The irony is the KISS pin has much better sound system than Metallica. It's night and day audio difference of SAM vs Spike, Mono vs Stereo.

#2599 3 years ago
Quoted from grantwood911:

Yeah but all my features work on my game and for $120 I can update all the speakers + a bigger sub so....... but like I said I love the Kiss machine iam just sorry for my buddy that has lost his butt on his premium.

Yes you can put bigger speakers in, but you still can't get stereo out of it which makes a difference in the QUALITY of the sound. That's the irony - KISS will always sound better than Metallica, even if Metallica has upgraded speakers, just as a function of Stereo (KISS) over Mono (Metallica). I haven't checked, but I think the sampling rate on Spike (KISS) may be better than SAM (Metallica) relatively crappy rate of 24khz, too, which is another thing upgrading speakers won't help.

I do feel for the people that were suckered into full price LEs. You can get them now for around $6k used, which is a great deal since I believe the price will bounce back with a solid update, like seen on Iron Man, which languished then became valuable enough for Stern to take notice and do a vault to cash in.

#2607 3 years ago
Quoted from Mvfvette1:

"I'm trying to figure out which big insert does nothing? Ps TWD Horde insert doesn't quite work either so don't buy that game..."
The inserts circled in blue are two of the ones (along with 2 other corresponding inserts) that appear to nothing other than flash in attract mode.

They don't do anything in the game that's goal related, but they ARE used in-game as part of the lightshow when you make objectives and the lights cascade up and down the PF.

#2616 3 years ago
Quoted from shock_me:

Do they not have something to do with completing the band character personas at the bottom of the grid? If not yet I'm pretty sure that's their intended function.

They SHOULD, but they don't do anything except participate in the lightshow occasionally now.

#2617 3 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

COLORDMD coming this year for KISS?

Supposedly the concert footage makes the conversion difficult. They need the source video. Dunno if they have it.

#2619 3 years ago
Quoted from thundergod76:

KISS Color DMD would be awesome but I just don't see it happening.

I agree. I'd buy it immediately, but I think the concert footage is going to be a problem. Also, they may be waiting for the next (final) firmware update to drop so they don't have to re-do stuff.

#2621 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

ColorDMD always finds a way! They colored some concert footage on AC/DC (like Angus mooning in the match sequence) before they got their whole "live action dots" thing down with Iron Man, Spider-Man, Avatar, and Tron.

Yeah, they can do digitized, but they need the source video like they had with Iron Man, Spiderman, etc. The problem with KISS is they don't know where that exact footage is or came from. At least that's as I understand it.

#2623 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's really hard to color live action footage without reference - but as far as I know, AC/DC was done by hand and without reference.

Well, if there's a way to do it without the source, I'm all for it. KISS would be awesome in color.

#2627 3 years ago
Quoted from Tempest:

Cannot put in words just how wicked this thing is!!!!!

Congrats! If you haven't already be SURE to get the KISS Lovegun lighting mod. The best mod for the machine, easily.


#2631 3 years ago
Quoted from thundergod76:

Looks awesome! Just curious where do you have this placed? It looks like an empty walk-in closet or bathroom stall?

Haha! If it wasn't for the electrical conduit, I was going to guess the world's most awesome prison cell.

#2635 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Unless cliffy updated this protector, I would not recommend it. It makes the scoop shot far more difficult to make.

I agree. It's literally the only time I tell people NOT to use a cliffy. That hole is so tight, and bounce outs so common as-is, adding a cliffy makes it super frustrating. Try some mylar or nail polish if you want to beef up the protection there.

#2643 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Anyone thinking of purchasing a NIB Stern in 2017 should read this thread first.

Fixed it.

#2653 3 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

People still ask for KISS code on Facebook without getting banned...you just can't be a dick about it. I suggest people keep the pressure on. When there is a code update or announcement about another product then make a post saying "Heh, that's awesome Stern. Looking forward to the KISS code update as well! When is it coming?"
I would also quit being a dick to Lonnie on here as well. I'm sure he and the other coders read pinside. I wouldn't want to finish the code when reading the little digs and insults that are hurled at the Stern coders not named Lyman, who probably have little influence on the coding priorities.

You make the career you get. It's not one time, it's a pattern with Lonnie. As a buyer of VERY expensive Stern pins, how can you NOT take that into consideration now? These aren't $3000 LE's anymore where you can roll the dice.

If he doesn't like his reputation, he CAN change it. If Stern won't give him the time he needs, he can take it home to perfect it like Lyman has. It's not good, but if you have an abusive employer, you live within the system or quit.

#2694 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Yeah, hope he gets fired up to do some different things.......

How old is that picture?

lonnie (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
#2716 3 years ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

Gomez has shown that he's not 100% in touch with the software side of the house.

He's shown on more than one occasion he's not 25% in touch with the truth. I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth, plus or minus. Believe it when you see it.

#2726 3 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

That's a complete crock of crap. How long would it take someone to update the code? A week? Maybe two? Is the world short of competent programmers all of a sudden?
From one of my favorite westerns, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining ok?

The fact that American Pinball got a Houdini up and running with hardware AND software in FOUR MONTHS that performs better than Batman '66 says it all about priorities at Stern.

#2732 3 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

The biggest issue any company that isn't Stern has right now is production.

You missed the point. If a couple guys can get a new machine both HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE running well enough to flip and be fun to play in FOUR MONTHS with much more complicated toys. There's NO excuse for a non-flippable BM'66 at the 30th party, and literally shipping months later with literal alpha code. Zero. Valid. Reasons.

#2734 3 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

American Pinball started talking about their Houdini game in September 2016, then the machine revealed at the end of that month. Longer than 4 months development.

That was a different game. They scrapped that and started over at the end of 2016.

Quoted from ahdelarge:

My point is that they are a startup and I'm not going to compare them with Stern until they start producing games and getting them into the hands of customers.

Well, okay, but that has NOTHING to do with the FACT that they did a HUGE amount of software development in 4 months, scrapping the game they showed in Sept and starting over, making a flappable game that's more fun and with cooler toys that work than Batman'66. Same amount of time Stern farted around with some very small revisions to Batman'66, AP took a pin from the ground up and made it fun to play. The excuses from Stern about slow development and Lyman working 100% of the time on Batman, but missing every promised "Gomez Drop" are shown to be just that, excuses. Houdini shows what can be done with 100% time spent on software (and HARDWARE!) for 4 months, and it's a much different outcome than Batman'66.

#2745 3 years ago
Quoted from joemoney24:

Honestly, what "huge" code update do some of you envision? Maybe fix a couple bugs but even those are few and far between.

Look at the bug thread. There are more than 15 bugs, not just a couple. Some are fairly serious (like the lovegun two ball jam-up that requires a reboot).

Quoted from joemoney24:

This thread is loud for sure, and likely making Stern think about how the game was developed, marketed, and enhanced. So why hasn't Stern released a code update within the past year for KISS? Well, GG pretty much said it - they don't see it worth the expense yet, simple. Does that hurt some peoples feelings, sure, but don't let that get in the way of playing and enjoying a "good" game.

The biggest problem is Stern promising a "big" update is coming (on video) last year. If nothing was being worked on (as Gomez now says) WHY would you LIE to your customers?!! It's a big problem with modern Stern, and this isn't the only instance.

That said, KISS earns well on route, and I still like the way the one I have at home looks and plays, so I guess that's the best we're gonna get. But I will say this, Ghostbusters PF fiasco, and the BM'66 launch fail has made me a LOT more careful about recommending Sterns for route or buying any for myself. And I don't think I'm alone.

#2771 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Bullshit. I'd LOVE to buy a KISS LE - right now - for $5,000. I'd love to buy a pro for $4,000.
For all the pissing and moaning ain't nobody selling a KISS cheap.

Best I've personally done deals in the high 5's for a Premium and $6050 for an LE, but prices have softened over the last year, so may be possible to negotiate lower.

Regardless of what people whine about here, it's a great "mindless fun" pin, and earns great on location. The LE cabinet is beautiful, too. You really have to see it in person to appreciate it.

Hard to see how you'd get hurt much buying in at this level.

#2804 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Someone posted a while back that George told them that KISS is not being worked on. I'd consider it done.

But that directly contradicts Gary, who said at TPF that an update IS coming. So is Gary lying or uninformed? I don't believe that. Maybe Gomez was trying to take some of the heat off by saying it wasn't coming, but it wasn't a good plan after Jody had said it WAS for months. Someone needs to give Stern a PR overhaul and make sure NO ONE talks about Stern except that office.

#2807 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I think it would save a lot of kiss owners screaming for code a lot of headache if they just assumed it's done and decide if they like the game enough to keep it. If not sell it. No big deal. Also I suggest next time you buy a game, buy a game for what the code is now, not what you hope it becomes, as there are no guarantees it gets any more attention.
You'll never be disappointed again.

If KISS never gets updated I'll still keep the LE I have. It's a fun game as-is, and easy for people to pick up and play. I'm way more put out about the Batman'66 situation and Stern's handling of the Game of Thrones orbit problem (rather than fix the problem, change the software to disable the orbit requirement and call it "as designed" - pfft!). If KISS gets another update to address the 15 or so known bugs and adds a little more game, it's all gravy at that point.

#2812 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

If you have this many issues with stern I suggest just stop giving them your business. Lots of options out there other than them.

No, there's not. For home/hobby? Yeah. But for a route operation with a need for reliable access to parts, there's JJP and Stern. And with the long-running Ubuntu bugs, even JJP is a bit iffy at this point. What would have happened if I recommended a Big Lebowski (as I almost did) to the OP I help? Up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick. If we GOT the machine, we're SOL on parts. But the alternative is we never get the machine at all, and he's out the money like all the other poor suckers that trusted DP. The boutique guys are moving things forward, but none of them are at a level that I'd take a chance recommending them for a route.

That said, AeroKISS remains un-purchased, and I may recommend sitting out Star Wars, too. Just take a breather from Sterns for a while and see what they clean up or what other disasters their cost cutting brings down. I'll play it by ear. But for the record, NO ONE is doing a great job at the moment, especially at these price levels.

#2816 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Here's the thing, if the cities are meant for callouts...then why isn't this coded yet? Seriously, how hard is it to code a call out???
Game was announced May 2015.
Let's not forget, last year before the code was released, we were told they were revamping the code.

What do you mean? I've heard city-specific callouts based on the city I choose. Just heard Los Angeles a couple times last night, in fact. It's not frequent, but the cities are already called out in the current code.

#2828 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I've yet to hear a city specific call out.
I don't remember it being listed on the update readme file.

Also, the callout isn't always the full city name, last night it called out "LA" instead of saying "Los Angeles". The city calls are definitely in there and active, but that's all they really do.

1 month later
#2863 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I was told that Lonnie is being given 6 weeks to fix/finish the KISS code.
What a disaster this pin has turned into it. Great layout/shots, great art, great sound, great lighting, great music, custom callouts from Paul & Gene...and the code was the achilles heal to the machine. I feel bad for all the distributors who are just stuck sitting on these machines.

No a fan of Lonnie code, but you're overstating by quite a bit. KISS code is overall better and more complete than Aerosmith currently, and everyone is fawning over that. Both games are essentially shoot the colored/flashing arrow, with little story at all. The Aero LCD has them hyp-mo-tized.

If Lonnie's got 6 weeks to zip up KISS, I hope he's looked at the KISS 1.28 bug thread (here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kiss-code-128-bugs-and-wishlist-for-final-update) and can try to do away with as many of the 15 actual bugs as possible and scratch a few of the wishlist features while he's at it. KISS Army and Rock City multi-ball need the most work, but I doubt they get much, since most of what's needed is graphics and callouts, which they probably have little of.

#2865 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

So true.
The KISS code isn't too bad at all.
I do like some aspects of the AS code ... ie when you finish a mode, you automatically get "Super something" rather than a random award from the scoop.
In saying that, a final polish and clean up is needed, just to finish KISS off.

Yes, giving you a super as a reward for finishing a mode (AS) is definitely better than the random way you get it from the scoop in KISS, but I don't like the way the song modes (timed) are handled compared to KISS (not timed). And that upper playfield in AS is still a waste in my opinion. I've played it a lot and still don't like that.

There's a lot to consider in that KISS 1.28 bugs and wishlist thread. I hope we get at least half of it done (all the bugs and some of the wishlist stuff).

#2872 3 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

Is it THAT close? Correct me if I am wrong but modes on AS go for 30 seconds unless you extend time.
Then you can hit the scoop to change song/mode
In KISS it doesnt end until you hit enough shots.

You're saying that like it's a negative. In a MUSIC game, I generally prefer to hear more than 30 seconds of a song at a time. KISS has it right. AS has it wrong, IMO.

#2886 3 years ago
Quoted from Pickle:

Set grid completion to 1 for HOF multi ball. Lit instruments carry over ball to ball. Light extra ball at one instrument collected. You have to collect like another 48 instruments for a second extra ball so it's not like giving a ton of extra balls in a single game. I also changed the play field multiplyer to 2X at one song completion. Second song will give you 3X etc. etc.
That's all I have changed and it's a ton of fun like that. I have not changed the posts or anything which still keeps it very challenging.

Extra ball at ONE instrument? That seems a little low. It's set on 5 instruments on my home one and on the one I maintain on route. That way you qualify for HOF and the next instrument you light extra ball.

#2893 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I tried everything I could think of, except for taking the demon head apart, to get the ball to shoot to the left flipper instead of right down the middle.

Adjusting the power does work, you just have to:

1. Know that the settings are BACKWARDS in the system menu, so if you're adjusting the one labeled for the head, you're not really adjusting the head kickout.
2. You have to play with the power for a while to get it just right, but it will kick to the left flipper tip once you get it right.

#2895 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I tried that...didn't work. Still went straight down the middle.

How many steps of power did you try? Also what's the angle of your machine?

1 week later
#2927 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Aerosmith correcting a lot of KISS's wrongs...

Dunno, KISS still destroys Aerosmith on the route I help on. Even XMEN LE is beating Aerosmith Prem by almost 50%. It's not a good start on route for AS, while KISS is still destroying as a top 5 earner. I wonder what AS Prem vs KISS Prem is like on other routes...

#2949 3 years ago
Quoted from Silkenone:

Bit of Kiss-related activity on Stern's Facebook live factory tour video today, makes a change...

KISS LEs no less.

#2992 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Batman code is already better than the KISS code...
I think all KISS owners need to chip in and pay Lyman to do the KISS code on the weekends.

I know it's trendy for some to dis KISS, but now you're just making yourself look stupid. Batman'66 code is nowhere NEAR the level of KISS code. I mean, just in multiballs - there are 5 Multiball modes in KISS vs 2 outlines of a Multiball mode in Batman '66! I would say the Batman multiballs are about as unfinished as Rock City and KISS Army multiball, which leaves three full-featured multiball modes KISS has that have no equivalent IN Batman'66. And KISS rules are substantially more deep than Batman. To see everything in KISS (if you're good enough), you're looking at close to an hour. To see it all in Batman'66 you're looking at 10-15 minutes. Maybe someday your statement will be true (maybe), but it will be a long time from now.

#2994 3 years ago


annie-kiss-fixed (resized).jpg

#2996 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Look at the new Batman code. Lyman is adding the depth that KISS lacks. No offense, you've been bashing Batman code nonstop.

That's a totally different conversation.

The POINT is the CURRENT Batman'66 code doesn't hold a CANDLE to KISS code. We're talking reality, not fiction.

Will Batman code improve? Likely. But almost 6 months in, it's just now getting to beta-level code, which is a LONG way from where KISS is.

#3020 3 years ago
Quoted from BudManPinFan:

So to all the KISS owners, is it that the current code is that bad, or is it more that they're just taking forever to release an update? I put about 7-8 games on a KISS pro on location last weekend and had a lot of fun. All in all I've played one about 20-30 times and I like it, I plan to get one eventually. I guess if I owned one I might discover a lack of code, but to the average player it's pretty good as is.

It's fun and relatively deep. There are about 15 bugs that need to be handled (check out the 1.28 bug thread here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kiss-code-128-bugs-and-wishlist-for-final-update ) and some polish would be nice, but it's pretty complete as-is.

#3023 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

The code is very basic. We all know Lonnie can do a good job, it's just will he do a good job? He did a great job with Aerosmith. I was expecting crap code, but I admitted that he did a good job. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was shocked by that.
As a KISS owner, I see 2 games (KISS and Aerosmith) with great art packages, great layout that's very similar, great music, KISS has the better callouts, both shoot great, but one has good code and the other is meh code.

Basic? How can KISS be more basic than AS when KISS has more features and more multiball modes, and when AS is a subset of KISS' "shoot the colored arrow" song play? Your conceit makes no sense at all, and I've played both KISS and AS premiums extensively.

#3025 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Aerosmith has the hidden Jacky/joker thingy on the shots. Every completed song in Aerosmith gives you a super mode. There's strategy to the Toys multi-ball. Coins add depth to the mode.
Just because a game has multi-balls, it doesn't make it a good game. Just look at the resale value of KISS...it's 100% due to the code.

KISS has those supers, too. It just awards them via backstage pass. It makes more sense the way AS does it, but it's not like AS has something new. It was copied from KISS and assigned to song completion instead of the scoop. News flash, there's strategy to pretty much all the multiballs in KISS.

The only reason KISS prices are where they are is because people thought it was abandoned and some are hung up on the cities not doing anything besides callouts. We'll see where Aerosmith values are in 2 years (and if there's any extended code support). So far it's not off to a great start on the route I help maintain. X-MEN LE out-earns it consistently. Wonder if it's a similar story for other operators.

#3032 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

AS will be probably the same in 2 years as it is now. I don't think anyone expects different and if they do, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. But, at least the code in AS is in far better shape than what KISS was when it first shipped. It doesn't have inserts that (still) don't do anything.
I sold my KISS pro long ago, before the last update that incorporated the playfield multipliers and colossal bonus inserts.

I don't really disagree with anything you said. But to say that AS is deeper than KISS code is ridiculous. That was my point. It's just not.

#3036 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

I never said AS was deeper. I said it was in a better state (polished) than KISS was at release.

No, no. I'm just saying that my original reply was to someone who said AS is deeper than KISS, which it is most definitely not.