Aerosmith (LE)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Pro)
Stern, 2017
KISS (LE)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Premium)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Pro)
Stern, 2015
Summer Time
Williams, 1973You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider vdojaq.
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Anyone who wishes to continue to make the statements that Stern has "abandoned" or put KISS into the "vault" is talking pure horseshit right out of their own arse! The pro's are still being produced, and a HUGE code update is in the works that should be released soon.
In my opinion, not soon enough! But hey, it's coming.
Hell, the last show STERN did had KISS, GoT, and SMVE all on display.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I realize a person *might* miss out on a LE, but generally premiums have most of the features anyway.
Not that I would mind have a real backglass again on some of my later machines, but that is not worth an extra $1000. The only backglasses that are worth $1000 or more are prototypes or the original art, and good ones at that. Those do not even go in machines, but on walls in frames protected.
I am not exactly sure what is going in the LE's can be considered a real backglass in the "classic" sense. It is a piece of glass with the artwork stuck on to it. Not direct screened/printed like we all are use to. Much cheaper than a "real" backglass.
Quoted from chuckwurt:I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the programmers don't build the games.
You do that all by yourself? Really?
Where did I say that the programmers build the games? Shifting focus to programming means a shift in priority.
Quoted from Rarehero:That literally makes no sense considering one has nothing to do with the other.
It is very obvious that some of you have ZERO manufacturing/management experience.
My bad, I guess should have explained better.
I should have better pointed out that since the production lines are down/producing very little, MANAGEMENT could/should shift their focus to push the programmers to get these code updates out. Since they can't push games out the door, how about pushing some code?
So yes, production and programming are all part of the manufacturing process.
Are you really making the stance that because the production lines are down, the higher ups at STERN are not able to shift the focus to getting code out because production and programming have nothing to do with each other? So no one can go into programming and say, guys, our production lines are at real low levels right now, we need to see codes for our games that are already produced get released. What can we do, where are we at , what do we need, what can we release NOW? How can we speed up the process?
That's like saying a restaurant manager cannot tell the waitstaff we are low on the chicken special so push the beef because cows and chickens have nothing to do with each other.
I am very sorry that common sense is confusing.
Again, where did I ever say pull people off of production and put them in programming? You can't! Why does anyone keep beating that horse??
But Stern , as a company, can certainly figure out how to get updates/code out in a faster manner. That was my whole point!!!
Hey Stern, your production is down( or should a say lower than normal?), how about figuring out ways to get code out faster?
It was nothing more, and nothing less!!!
But, some people have to expand their chest and pull out, well production and programming have nothing to do with each other!! Hey, no shit!!!
Quoted from jgentry:None of this makes any sense. Stern has a coding department that does nothing else but design code. Stern is obviously trying to get code out faster and fix some of the older games that had issues so they are focusing on code. If they pumped out the code with a bunch of bugs people would be pissed that they rushed it out. It's not like you can move other people off the line that you say is down (which it's not) and have them code games. Management could walk in and say work longer hours or set deadlines but that might bring us right back to code being released with a bunch of bugs. First thought is to higher more coders but then you are assuming larger teams can work cohesively and with the same vision which is something programmers don't have a great history of being able to do.
What makes you say that the lines are down? Lots of GOT premiums and Mets just rolled off.
There you go! You figured it out! Stern, you need more programmers!!!
Lines are not actually down(stopped), production is just down/lower than normal because of parts issues(SMVE, & GB)
Quoted from flashinstinct:This makes no sense. If you make this argument you are saying
"Guys we are out of Stern code (chicken)...so to speed things up we should replace it with JJP code (beef)." Stern as their code and there is nothing that can replace that code on a whim.Who would you suggest that Management shift focus to push programmers?
Line workers cannot code. While I'm sure the opposite could be somewhat true, if the line was behind that coders could pick up tools and help out. Picking up a screwdriver and screw on some things is pretty easy but to ask a line worker to create a function that loops through the scoring and changes X value with Y value IF only ABC statements are true and that D variable is active is a different beast altogether.
While I do believe Stern should hire more staff to code their games this problem will keep happening until people stop buying games as soon as they are released and demand that code be 80% + done when the game comes out. Short of that the Stern building machine will keep chugging along like it always has.
Again, where did I ever say put the line workers in programming???
Where should management shift the focus? As everyone agrees, HIRE more programmers!!! Don't put out games with features that do not work!!! Have these games 90% coded when released, then fix the bugs and offer updates.
We buy with our desires and not our heads, that's is why this routine is acceptable with Stern and we all bitch! Until the desire for a NIB machine becomes secondary, nothing is going to change.
However, as a company that produces a product(Stern), you would think they would pride themselves on offering a finished product.
That would be like FORD building cars with side view camera technology , but you can't use it because it hasn't been programmed yet! FORD would never do that! Can't say the same for Stern!
Quoted from Rarehero:To you, clearly!
Hang on, I need to signal the almighty down vote!
Quoted from Delta9:Anybody looking for a new kiss topper 320 shipped comes with a yellow light defuseer just pm me
Now look what we all made this guy do ! Offer a great deal!
Quoted from WJxxxx:Obviously the answer is yes, makes no matter what month it is
As long as there is some new code between the salami and the cheese!
Quoted from WJxxxx:The fact that production is down (whether it is or isn't) has no bearing whatsoever as to the ability to figure out how to get code faster.
There was no need to bring that into the argument.
Hey, it's February - do you want a sandwich?
Your 100% correct, has ZERO bearing on ABILITY. The ability to figure out the programming issues has always been there. How about focusing on that said ABILITY?
Does it make more sense to anyone if I put it in this scenario?
Gary Stern orders his management team into into his office and says "Guys, our line production is down(quantity, not shut down) due to supplier issues that are out of our control. Since some of you(his management team) have some extra time, I would like us to concentrate on figuring out what we need to get our programming department the ability to get game code more complete and out faster."
It happens every day in business and manufacturing. If you are slower on one end, you figure how to get more productive on the other!
That my friends is COMMON SENSE.
Here is my original quote:
"You would think that since STERN can't really build anything at the moment, programming would be the top priority." That pretty much sums up the above scenario.
No way am I implying Stern works on common sense!
Quoted from Rarehero:Vdojak- you don't get it. Telling programmers "work faster" isn't the answer. The problem is resource management from the inception of a title. Unfortunately Stern often starts programming very late in the design phase, and it's just not enough time. To create something creative, people need enough time. They didn't have enough time on Kiss and they're still working. It will be done when it's done. Brandishing the whip accomplishes nothing...in fact sometimes it slows people down because it stresses them out or pisses them off. I work with artists on tight deadlines...sometimes due to the nature of the project, the deadline is unreasonable. I can yell "faster faster" till my eyeballs pop out - but that won't change the reality of "a man can only do so much".
Please tell me where I said "tell the programmers work faster" Again, you guys are making shit up!
Quoted from shlockdoc:The last 30 posts have been so circular. You don't understand , no you dont understand, no you still don't understand, I understand it is you who don't understand. And that is the summary for today.
That's because you just don't understand! 
Quoted from Rarehero:When nothing you say makes sense and everyone is telling you that - it's not us, it's you.
I see where you are coming from. You decided to use deflection, because you could NOT answer the question I posed.
It's OK by me, it just proves that you want to make something out of nothing at all. I have made my points through common business sense all because I would like Stern to focus on code issues.
I never said make the production people work on programming. I never said make programmers work faster. I never said put out unfinished codes. Nothing makes sense because you guys keep making up shit that I never said!
Quoted from Rarehero:There are a lot of horrible analogies in this thread.
Lets recap:
-Coding pinball has nothing to do with factory production
-Coding pinball is different than coding iPhone apps
-Coding pinball has literally nothing to do with how an electrician approaches their work.
Please ad:
-Coding pinball is performed by people other than the idiots(all of us) on pinside arguing about the people who do the coding.
Quoted from Rarehero:Your question is unanswerable because your premise makes zero sense. YOUR EXACT WORDS:
Who has extra time!? The coding teams do not have extra time because the line is down! You made a direct correlation between the line and coding ability.
And there it is..."get it done faster". There's no actual solution for doing such a thing...just Gary saying to go fast lol. Creating something like pinball gameplay doesn't work that way! When code isn't done, only one thing is at fault: Not enough time on the schedule before launch. Post launch and those programmers are playing catchup while also working on new projects. It'll get done when it's done, management saying "faster" will not accomplish anything.
You have a severe case of faulty reading comprehension
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:The only thing worse than not having new KISS code is having to read negative back n forth exchanges by pinball addicts. Please guys lets keep this one on topic. If you'd like to argue semantics please do it via PM from this point forward.
But I wanted more down votes!
Quoted from snaroff:Was surprised to see so much action on this vacuous thread...
After reading through the last two pages of posts, I believe your communication skills aren't quite as sharp as you imagine.
In addition, you don't appear to know much about software development and/or Stern's company culture/history.
Ok, point taken.
However, when someone wants to take a couple of words and slant them to make a whole new meaning, they either are a politician or just an ignorant ass.
I don't claim to know about software development, nor do I care about Stern's "culture".
I just don't understand WTF the problem is with a customer making the point that they would like to see Stern put more emphasis on code.
That is all I did and a few want to twist my meaning, my words, and whatever.
Business is business, you produce pinball machines, cars, vibrators, beer, or whatever. Every owner/management/team takes the time to analyze and make improvements in every department. And yes, that applies to programming as well.
So if I don't "get it" , so be it!!!
Quoted from Rarehero:Projection. When one person here goes to bat for your take on this, you'll have some ammo against me. Until then...go away.
Anyway, after all the BS has settled. Someone I DO know as reliable reached out me and relayed to me that the KISS code IS a priority and that Stern wants this out ASAP.
So I guess soon is the best we get for an answer.
Quoted from Dr-Willy:Fact: it has been this way for 10 titles prior to kiss.
I'm really not trying to be a dick. Just burnt out on beating this dead horse. Everyone does this again and again, they buy the next title thinking " it will be different this time around, it has to be different this time" then when it's not? Bitch, bitch, bitch. I'm not defending stern but also the definition of insanity is doing the samething over and over and expect different results.
I am not so sure this applies if you are an LE buyer. Unless you are a gambler, the choice is pretty clear that buying it ASAP is the best way to go if it is a "title" that appeals to you. Once they sell out(meaning distributors are out of them) , you are now in the secondary market. Is the game killer? TRON LE, ACDC LE's, or is it a dog? WWE LE, Transformers LE. There is the gamble, you gonna pay $10K or $5K?
LE NIB buyers pay more, and expect more. They should have a louder voice with Stern, they paid for that right.
That being said, I will never buy another LE from Stern. KISS was my dream title, but in my opinion, the LE was a RIPOFF. Premium was the way to go on this one. I have #565, it will never leave my possession, just never again. Honestly, that feeling has nothing to do with code.
BUT, my main rant that started all this 8 months later is I don't have a simple sound(s) for lane switches, the most basic of programming! For the $ I paid, that is BEYOND ridiculous.
So Stern could throw out code 1.05 right away to sell those $400 toppers, but I can't have a simple and basic code update 1.06 for a basic sound? Gee, my 1979 KISS can make those sounds! That simple gesture/update would have appeased many KISS owners until the next update.
Screw status quo, rattle some cages. Very sorry if that upsets some people or classifies me as a "whiner". Awe...don't push the programmers, they are sensitive because they make a special product. BULLSH*T !
Quoted from thundergod76:See post #2 and don't forget to downvote!
In on the downvote!
Quoted from joekiss:I don't really consider that a mod more of an accessory. Am I incorrect?
accessory- a thing that can be added to something else in order to make it more useful, versatile, or attractive.
modify- make partial or minor changes to (something), typically so as to improve it or to make it less extreme.
Quoted from vid1900:It's a big update with a few surprises thrown in for good measure.
Extra songs
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:So, 4 hrs ago Stern facebook posts a picture of Gene Simmons and Gary together......that's either a real dick move or code is coming.
It's a picture from yesterday at the Las Vegas amusement show.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:WHERES THE CODE?!??! I HAVE MY MEMORY STICK READYYYY
Quoted from shlockdoc:And you know this how?
What he knows is called sarcasm.
Quoted from Sborel:i asked about KISS code at Stern tour, i was told Lonnie is going to work on it....
IS GOING to work on it?!? WTF!?!? 
Quoted from Deez:Kiss code xmas?
Kissmas code?
Quoted from thedarkknight77:Kiss is done, sad, but true. Heck Stern couldn't even sell the LE's, why would they invest in finishing the code now. This game will go down in Transformers history as the second biggest let down in pinball.
Disagree, the PRO's earn money on route and still sell. A great update will make the rest of the LE's sell, but probably at a discount. IMHO , the LE is a big rip off compared to the Premium. I bought the LE because I am a huge KISS fan. I regret it and should have bought the Premium. I have bought my last NIB LE from Stern EVER.
Quoted from PinMonk:the LE is worth it because of the real mirrored backglass and.......
That is NOT a real mirrored backglass. That is a piece of glass with something stuck to it. The art is 100% not printed onto the glass.
I am actually happy with the game play of my KISS. I am just bugged by the fact I paid for a machine that has features that are incomplete and could make it better. That there are bugs that still need to be addressed 18 months later. Again, if STERN were an automobile manufacturer, they would be out of business.
I agree that the LE cabinet art is the best of the 3, but not $1500 better. I don't play the side art.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Every single kiss dribbles out. Why is that an issue?
Because for some machines it takes 3-5 tries for it to actually kick out.
Quoted from Tempest:Soon to add LE #50 to the mix.
And the Devil sat in the passenger's side
Of Delorean's automobile
He said, "Hey Frehley, Frehley let's not be silly
There's a life out there to steal"
Quoted from Methos:Great album.
Into the Night and Fractured Two are some of his best.
Live + 1, Words are not enough.
Should have been on that 1st F.C. album, would have been a hit.
Quoted from ahdelarge:COLORDMD coming this year for KISS?
PLEASE!!!
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Who carries the lovegun light mod?
Quoted from Pickle:So...I had a chance to talk to George Gomez alone on Sunday morning at TPF. I asked him directly if there would be an update for Kiss. He said they have to find a way to make it happen as it has demanded and asked for constantly. I feel he was honest in what he said. So that tells me it is not really being worked on but it needs to be done.
Stern has too many irons in the fire. I get that they like to push new projects along but as buyers we should demand and we should expect MORE when it comes to code. There is no reason to settle for any game to have unfinished code.
Looks like we will be waiting a while.
This is the exact reason why A.P. has a realistic opportunity in this market. STERN has pulled this crap long enough without direct competition. JJP has a long way to go before they will be there(if ever). Batman 66(a rehash at that) proved there are still many wallets out there to purchase these higher end games. Until sales start to decline for STERN, we will never see a change. I mean c'mon, when KISS was released/delivered the inlanes didn't even make a sound.
My KISS LE was a rip off, and I am a pissed off STERN customer. Let's make that FORMER customer.
Quoted from Pickle:A good clean up of animations would be VERY NICE so we can look forward to color DMD. Some of the current animations are real bad.....needs some work for sure.
Would be the 1st color DMD I buy.
Quoted from Pickle:Keep hope ALIVE!!!
Make sure it doesn't become the lost ALIVE
Quoted from thundergod76:If this is true what a joke. Being told in Stern released videos that code is being worked on and then nothing. WTF!? I'm really starting to think with the way Stern is running their business that something big is going to happen sooner than later. Increased prices, stripped down playfields, QC issues and half baked code. They're on a massive cash grab securing all these licensed titles and pumping them out faster than cheeseburgers. Their customer relations are a joke. I'm really starting to think that Gary is looking to bail in a few short years and sell. Their actions are clearly of a company not looking ahead. This is just my opinion though and I could be wrong.
You assume Gary is still "the" owner.....
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Do we all pick a number between 1 and 160 to see who is closest?
Yeah, but the horses ass trophy goes to STERN.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:That is dedication.
Stern said there WILL be a KISS code update sometime in 2017. I am just counting down to remind them(not really, just to bump) of the time constraint they have given themselves.
Quoted from pinballlife:Gene swears he has nothing to do with the delay.
Don't ask, don't tell?
I honestly don't think the code is bad.
But there are some dead ends, bugs, fixes, and display graphics that really need to be addressed. As a NIB buyer, it is beyond ridiculous that I have had to wait well over 2 years for this to happen.
I have voted with my wallet. I wanted an NIB G.B. as bad as I wanted KISS, but I held out. Sure looks like I made the right choice and I still do NOT own G.B. My next temptation will be Iron Maiden, but I am confident that I am more pissed with STERN than needing their game(s). KISS my A$$.
Oh, and 147 days !!
Quoted from cscmtp:I think the days of selling a Stern for a profit are all but over. Who is going to pay a premium for ghosting, cabinet splits, and incomplete code?
This has ZERO to do with profit for me. I just want my damn game updated and completed!
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Crystal Lake, IL
All by the same person, he should be so proud! 
