Aerosmith (LE)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Pro)
Stern, 2017
KISS (LE)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Premium)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Pro)
Stern, 2015
Summer Time
Williams, 1973You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider chuckwurt.
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Quoted from TheRave:I know this is a recurring theme on this forum...but WTF?
My best suggestion is if you're going to by NIB make sure and play the hell out of one as it stands and ask yourself if it's worth it as the game stands and assume no more updates will happen. It's a shame this happens, but it does happen so it's best to not set yourself up for disappointment. I researched for over a year on NIB sterns before I decided buy one.
Quoted from robotron:i really dont think they care.
they sold a bunch and still selling a ton of new games.
Why do you think this? I know for a fact stern reads these threads and takes a lot of things into consideration. Some things just take time.
Quoted from robotron:I wont buy another incomplete pin from them.
I'm not sure why anyone would do this ever unless they were perfectly happy with the pin in its current state.
Quoted from sebseb12:If they want to boost their sales, they should finish their codes instead of selling their crap at high prices
Hahaha.
Quoted from vdojaq:You would think that since STERN can't really build anything at the moment, programming would be the top priority.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the programmers don't build the games.
Quoted from robotron:are you related to gary stern?
fact, i paid 7600 for stern kiss le with beta code
fact, 8 mos later and no code update
fact, get me my new code (in time) and I will be a happy returning customer.
fact, at this point I will never buy another nib stern.
Fact: If you do your homework about a new game and play the hell out of it before you decide to buy it, and base your decision on how the game currently stands, you will never be disappointed.
Quoted from Wakky:You can only know that if your a Stern employee ... are you? If not dont just put down statements guessing.. anyone can say what you said ...
There are a lot of non-stern employee beta testers out there.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Doesn't mean it should be that way or couldn't change.
I would rather the game ship incomplete and then use the buyers of the games to be beta testers to get the game really great over the next few years. If the game shipped complete and was lame, that would suck. If you don't let a lot of opinions fly in from various day one buyers of the game and use that information to make the game great, you're taking a huge risk that the code will be unpopular. I think the way they do it is very smart and they are improving with every game that comes out. They read all the comments and take EVERYTHING into consideration. I appreciate that.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Yet some people say no matter what is said here and 'in the wild' wont change Sterns actions...
Might seem that way to those people, but in my experience, that isn't the case.
Quoted from vid1900:2+ years for the final code is my prediction.
I'd say if you have that mindset, you will rarely if ever be disappointed in the Stern code process.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:So which will arrive first: ghostbusters LE to my house or KISS code update?
My distributor said May or June for ghostbusters.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you KISS owners and saying code.
Quoted from PinMonk:No Metallica? PlayMeter has Metallica at #2 this month. At least everyone agrees on GoT earning.
That's the results from one location. I'm guessing they don't have Metallica.
Quoted from Hashman:They should release it and let their customers do the testing
Those are the ones that are doin the testing now.
Quoted from joekiss:By playing the stock pin you are listening to recently re-recorded watered-down soulless versions of great songs. Listen to the full Detroit Rock City from Destroyer and tell me its not a great song.
It's not a good song. Sorry, but there are just bands I prefer way more to KISS. They have always seemed like a band that either has the KISS army or no one.
Bands from that era that I like way more than KISS (led Zeppelin, pink Floyd, the dead, Rush)
Quoted from joekiss:Did you listen to it off of Destroyer??
Yep. But to be fair, I don't think any band can be judged fairly until you've seen them live. I would love to see KISS live in their prime, but I just don't see how I would like their live show any more than those other bands I mentioned.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:KISS is just party music. Floyd is just great music.
Two completely different animals.
Agree. I love party music, and don't think I've ever heard anyone put on KISS at any of the parties I've been to, or hell bars even. They just don't click with a lot of people. My group has a very good taste in music in my opinion and we are all very passionate about music and see double digit shows every year. I'm younger (early 30s), so in all my experimentation with music KISS has been nothing but a blip. And that's generous.
Quoted from jeffsarcade:I had to read your post about 5 times... I think you disagreed with yourself.
KISS does have 30 gold records, most of any American rock band. Someone's obviously listening to them besides you and your friends.
Yeah I guess I should thrown in there that I've never considered KISS to be a good party music band at all, hence never being at parties with people rocking KISS.
Quoted from Bing_Party:Oh man just proving my previous comment. Just kidding!!! But Kiss rules the 70s and 80s. I hope ghostbusters does not end up like this.
In Dwight I trust. I think GB owners are going to love that code.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Anyone else think that Stern read the code ideas in this thread and are just thinking to themselves "Oh crap".
I know they read these threads and consider code ideas from the masses. Not sure about the oh crap part. Haha
Quoted from jeffsarcade:I see what they did... release one more tease... then release the highly anticipated Ghostbusters magnetic sling video to distract us...
Or release a GOT update. Haha
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I'm not buying another Lonnie game (unless it's Star Wars).
Haha. The sickness is real. What if the code sucks and takes forever to make it right?
Quoted from DaveH:If you weren't expecting the code and it came out you might all be happy. But now you are all in your seats waiting. Not cool.
Nope. Because there are people (they have commented in this thread), that would be pissed because there was no communication as to the status of the new code update. Just like there are people that are pissed that their has been communication, but too much of it and no code update. It is literally impossible to please everyone.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I find my best stress relief comes from the gym and pinball.
GPL? Hahahahahaha
Quoted from Trekkie1978:It's so sad that I actually get the reference....
51LFI2AXD9L._SX425__(resized).jpg
I blame my wife. She got me to watch that nonsense when we first started dating. I will never forgive her. haha
Quoted from capguntrooper:Remove spinning disc and apply duct tape or a round sticker. I used to make them but am deployed now so you are left for a diy
Will the clear discs from tron fit KISS too?
Quoted from Barakawins1:I will never buy a new in box again. Totally agree with you The_Dude_Abides
Or buy Dwight and Lyman games.
Quoted from Deez:Why? Game shoots great, has decent rules and gorgeous art. Just needs polish in the code. To me a turd is a game like avengers where the physical layout sucks.
I agree. Also KISS is a great tournament game IMO.
Quoted from Deez:I love jamming on the demon targets to double jackpots in demon multiball during ball save. Also like to complete two songs before multi ball so I have a couple of 4x multipliers going on shots.
I'm so scared to drain on this game that I always go for MB first and try to complete a song during MB. That would be awesome to be two songs deep before MB though. That or start super ramps after completing two songs.
Quoted from Deez:Isn't super ramps a random award? I play rock and roll all night then shout it out loud as my two songs before multiball. Usually if I get thru those multi ball will be lit.
Yeah. Just saying if I am in single ball and I have a couple songs done, and backstage is lit, I will dump the ball in there just in case I get ramps. Can be huge points.
Why do you pick those two songs? I've been deuce all day as it seems to be pretty valuable.
Quoted from Deez:The shot pattern is easy for me to complete. Then I change to detroit rock city for multi ball since all shots are lit. At least thats the plan. Usually doesn't work out that way!
Thanks for the tips. I'm always looking for a better way to attack this game. I'm pretty terrible at it and I have to play it regularly in competition.
Quoted from Rascal_H:Is that pic for real? Source?
Go watch stranger things on Netflix right now.
Quoted from Rascal_H:I am! That's why I thought it was real.., Stern is using a Stranger Things cover image on their Facebook. So it wasn't a stretch to think they could also make an announcement with a Stranger Things image.
Oh dang! I wonder what the significance of that is? Very interesting!
Quoted from Deez:To make use speculate furiously on pinside about some random gibberish
Would be awesome if they gobbled up that license. Pretty killer theme for pinball IMO.
Quoted from PinMonk:But the RGB lighting mode changes the pro doesn't have are impressive. Big difference for a casual player when the whole playfield turns red in demon multiball, or pinkish in lovegun mode, etc. There's clearly some difference to the casual player since KISS Pros seem to do meh on location and Premiums do very well.
The KISS pro on location near me is only bested by GOT pro. Does very well.
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:Given the state of KISS, lack of updates on GB, foot draggin legal nonsense on Aliens, and just teasing of Bats'66.. Can we clearly say this is the longest dry spell of any updates or Pinball news in the past five years?
Zzz Im going back to video games nothing to see here anymore
What about that Houdini nonsense? That thread is probably the hot steaming pile of pinball news you're looking for.
Quoted from konjurer:I'm not sure there are bonus multipliers. There are:
Song multipliers (do those apply to the bonus???)
Shot multipliers
Playfield multipliers
Combo multipliers
Demon multiplier
There are also 2 mystery awards:
Playfield 2x
Bonus X
Bonus X looks like a bonus multiplier but I don't remember ever getting that as an award. The end-of-ball bonus doesn't seem to result into big scoring opportunities.
My base bonus has been close to 10 million before and has always been at 1x. Figured there was a way to up that since they make a point to show what your bonus is multiplied by. If that was multiplied by 5-10x that would be pretty good amount of points.
Quoted from rotordave:GOT has way more buggy code than KISS. KISS may need a little polish but at least the side lane ball saves work properly ... unlike GOT.
Stop giving your game hell when your LOLs are lit and they will work fine. Haha
Quoted from Edenecho:Really? I have a hard time believing that. And most critical is the stupid SDTM from Genes mouth, thats almost game breaking.
This is 100% fixed with physical game adjustments and once the game is broken in. It's a non issue.
Quoted from Whysnow:I wonder if Lonnie is reading this thread or if anyone knows how to get him this idea? Coding team >> please feel free to run eith this. I think it would do amazing things for the game and would also show how a team run by Lonnie can step in to really polish a game off.
HELP US, HELP YOU! If you have any suggestions, questions, need technical
advice, find errors or have comments, contact us through our website:
http://www.sternpinball.com/contact.shtml
that is on each Readme file when code drops. Try there.
Also, I know Dwight reads all the GOT threads and GB threads, so I assume Lonnie does the same.
Quoted from Razorbak86:I know that Ben has publicly acknowledged your code feedback and testing regarding AMH, and they have clearly improved the game. I also know that you've made suggestions to several other coders that work for Stern's competitors, and they've probably been incorporated as well (presumably on the pins at the top of your ranking list).
But it's also quite clear that you took the rejection of your "Stern Army" application very personally, and the bitterness of that snub has fueled your online campaign against everything that Stern makes.
Seriously, look at the disparity of your ratings...
1. Wrath of Olympus = 10.0
2. Dialed In = 10.0
...
...
...
72. AC/DC Pro = 1.62
73. Metallica LE/Premium = 1.21
How can you expect your feedback to carry any credibility with Stern employees?
Haha. Wow. Didn't realize heavy metal meltdown blew AC/DC out of the water.
Quoted from konjurer:In the entire history of Stern KISS, has anyone at Stern ever indicated that the cities where supposed to do more than just callouts from Gene and Paul? Could the cities just been a bad idea with no plans for enhanced rules?
Where's the 1,000x like button?
Quoted from Khabbi:Stern has abandoned the code on Kiss and we all know it, speculating that the cities are fine they way they are is just ridiculous.
That's fine if you think that, but until I hear something from stern that they originally intended to do something rule-based with the cities, I have no reason to believe that was their intention.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:I don't care what Stern's intentions are. Does the GOT orbit "fix" suck any less because it wasn't their original intent? It is what it is, and it sucks.
Sorry but I don't think assuming intentions for code development compares to a known design flaw that they couldn't fix on their end.
Quoted from PinMonk:They COULD have fixed it (with a new arm for that diverter - watch the slow mo video) they just chose not to.
I doubt Ritchie would say they are working on a fix and lie about it. I think they tried and couldn't come up with a permanent fix so took the road they did.
Quoted from capguntrooper:I love ya Chuck, but ya couldn't be more wrong. Stern could have fixed it and I submitted two designs to them for the arm and the shield bracket and they chose to ignore me because it was more cost effective to rewrite code than to manufacture new arms. The only reason I did not mass produce the arms was because it was WAAAAAAAAY to expensive unless mass produced. I would also never expect people to spend hundreds of dollars on a arm I redesigned. Not to mention when techs at Stern are referencing me and my work on kissues for fixes instead of fixing it on their own, they lose a lot of credibility. It has been one issue pin after another since TWD, they just gave up after fixing the issues on that one.
You can say that again 
Quoted from capguntrooper:So did they implement my Star Child saucer eject fix or does it still dribble out?
Every single kiss dribbles out. Why is that an issue?
Quoted from vdojaq:Because for some machines it takes 3-5 tries for it to actually kick out.
Oh okay fair enough.
Quoted from Metengo:Why is Kiss higher rated here on pinside Top 100 than GoT, where the majority (including me) is absolutely happy about the code (OK, a little last update would be more than nice).
???
Because those ratings are completely meaningless for the most part.
The only ratings you need to pay attention to are the ones that Kevin Ryan does (Caucasian two step on here). His are unbiased and very honest.
Quoted from konjurer:People still ask for KISS code on Facebook without getting banned...you just can't be a dick about it. I suggest people keep the pressure on. When there is a code update or announcement about another product then make a post saying "Heh, that's awesome Stern. Looking forward to the KISS code update as well! When is it coming?"
I would also quit being a dick to Lonnie on here as well. I'm sure he and the other coders read pinside. I wouldn't want to finish the code when reading the little digs and insults that are hurled at the Stern coders not named Lyman, who probably have little influence on the coding priorities.
Well said. And they 100% read this stuff.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Look at the release schedule for GOT and Ghostbusters. Dwight has delivered solid code on both.
Where KISS stands right now it is right in line with those two games. For me, just like in GOT (not quite GB yet), I'd be fine if there were no more updates outside of bug fixes.
Was playing kiss in a tournament last night and considering new strategy. If I'm trapped up and hit the center ramp and combo that into a lit mode shot, is said mode shot worth double? How long is it doubled? Just a next switch hit kind of thing?
Quoted from BrewinBombers:Yes, 2nd shots on combos are doubled; combo timer in effect so 3-5 seconds or whatever. Bowen's tutorial explains this strategy pretty well.
Cool I'll check it out. I'm sick of bricking the star child shot. Haha
Quoted from hank527:I think Lonnie is on Aerosmith and then maybe he finishes off Kiss.
Nope. On to IM!!
Quoted from Trekkie1978:The biggest problem the KISS code is that it's missing a purpose. There's no narrative. You're literally just playing to get multi-balls.
Don't you think it's pretty tough to come up with a narrative on a music based pin? What's the narrative on AC/DC, Aerosmith, or MET?
Quoted from sepins:I have a friend locally that wants a KISS Premium or LE and will be his only game.
I keep telling Him to wait and make sure they do code right.
He thinks I'm BS'ing Him about not being done yet as He's not a pinhead...LOL
It is hard to understand how code could be so incomplete for that long!
I would tell him to find one and play one and to assume the game will be this way forever. He could love it and still get one.
Lots of scoring bugs (huge ones), and missing callouts and animations left and right on GOT. That doesn't change the fact it's one of the best pins I've ever played and it will never leave. I played one, loved it, bought it. I have no hopes for any code updates because the game was worth owning as is. You'll save yourself a lot of headache if you do this in the future.
Quoted from hank527:Hope not. This Borg metal band quadrupole needs Dwight. We had Lonnie twice, Lyman once, now we need Dwight to change it up.
I think that would be interesting. Or KME!
Quoted from J85M:BTW chuck what do you love so much about GOT?
The seemingly endless scoring strategies. Cannot really experience them until you own it. There is so many stacks, risk reward setups, etc. It's great. Its weak in the art department, but gameplay is fantastic. You might beat the iron throne way quicker than getting to Last man standing on TWD, but the stuff you can do on the way is great. People that are getting insanely high scores on GOT are pulling off some of the most satisfying setups and stacks in pinball imo. Once you understand how all the multipliers work and how to add them to cashing in modes and multiballs it becomes a long term keeper in my book.
Btw I am in no way saying that GOT holds a candle to TWD, but it's holds its own and then some.
Quoted from Chuckwebster:I don't buy that the cities were never intended to do anything- Rock City is the final wizard mode and has its own insert. With that said i really don't care that much if they are just pulled from the game. "As is" Kiss is a good game, with some setting tweaks i think its a great game, with a code update it could be a masterpiece. Regarding pricing- all the negative code talk killed additional production runs of Kiss. There will be limited supply of them on the secondary market which means they are going to hold their value well over time. My biggest wish is that Stern would just come out and tell us what their intentions are with the code. If its done- so be it.
Someone posted a while back that George told them that KISS is not being worked on. I'd consider it done.
Quoted from PinMonk:But that directly contradicts Gary, who said at TPF that an update IS coming. So is Gary lying or uninformed? I don't believe that. Maybe Gomez was trying to take some of the heat off by saying it wasn't coming, but it wasn't a good plan after Jody had said it WAS for months. Someone needs to give Stern a PR overhaul and make sure NO ONE talks about Stern except that office.
I think it would save a lot of kiss owners screaming for code a lot of headache if they just assumed it's done and decide if they like the game enough to keep it. If not sell it. No big deal. Also I suggest next time you buy a game, buy a game for what the code is now, not what you hope it becomes, as there are no guarantees it gets any more attention.
You'll never be disappointed again.
Quoted from PinMonk:If KISS never gets updated I'll still keep the LE I have. It's a fun game as-is, and easy for people to pick up and play. I'm way more put out about the Batman'66 situation and Stern's handling of the Game of Thrones orbit problem (rather than fix the problem, change the software to disable the orbit requirement and call it "as designed" - pfft!). If KISS gets another update to address the 15 or so known bugs and adds a little more game, it's all gravy at that point.
If you have this many issues with stern I suggest just stop giving them your business. Lots of options out there other than them.
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah. But for a route operation with a need for reliable access to parts, there's JJP and Stern.
Agreed. I haven't met one Operator that cares about the things you mentioned in your previous post.
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Mequon, WI