Aerosmith (LE)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Aerosmith (Pro)
Stern, 2017
KISS (LE)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Premium)
Stern, 2015
KISS (Pro)
Stern, 2015
Summer Time
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Quoted from RipleYYY:ok, its already a long wait, but dont worry, as said before think about MET or XMEN.
Met was coded by Lyman and X-Men was a gaddamn nightmare experience to go thru. Both have nothing to do with Kiss. Don't think about them lol
Quoted from Wakky:I would have thought with a huge branding like KISS this title would get well looked after? I mean be the flag ship of the pins they have made to date ...yet nothing ???
Every Stern game is licensed with "huge" branding. Kiss is no different.
Quoted from Wakky:Actually your wrong there ..kiss is one of the biggest brands out there and also when you see the high demands for the old bally 7os version you would know how popular it is even today. So they need to get this title right ...unless your under 30 you wouldn't know this sunshine
In any case, Kiss has zero clout when it comes to coding issues.
Quoted from mountaingamer:Really? so you think if Gene got on Gary's arse about the lame code that Gary would tell him "you have zero clout Gene".......... I think not
I doubt Gene Simmons knows about or cares what "code" is. I'm not going to debate the importance of Kiss compared to other licenses...it's irrelevant. Every license stern deals with is "important" and protective of their brand. Not ONE has ever held Stern accountable for pinball code issues. It's just completely off their radar.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I still don't know why collectors do not at least play the game as a test or on location early enough to make a proper judgement.
Dream themes cause collectors to "Day 1 Buy" ...that's why licensing works. I'm guilty of it. When it's a theme you feel was made "just for you" you put on your rose colored glasses and hope for the best! Not saying it's right...but that's what happens.
Quoted from Wakky:[Personal attack removed by moderator]
I'm more offended by the fact that you still don't know when to use "you're" instead of "your".
Quoted from Wakky:Your is correct ... same as we spell colour instead of color ... like when you yanks say Mom we say Mum .... so ' your ' is correct
Wow.
You're = you are.
Your = possessive.
This isn't an American English vs. British English issue.
http://m.wikihow.com/Use-You're-and-Your
Quoted from CrazyLevi:So I'll cut them some slack...games like Metallica and Walking Dead are just average releases until the code gets updated. They are working real miracles with the code and it takes time.
You just mentioned two Lyman games. Kiss is not a Lyman game....you can't compare Kiss to Met/TWD.
Quoted from jlm33:Agreed. Not saying Kiss does not deserve an update, but my feeling is that the effort should be put first on WWE. Sales are probably not in the same league but providing a major update for WWE would send a very positive positive signal for future sales - Sten does not forget its buyers even for pins that do not sell well.
Different people are working on different games, so there's no "code priority" based on release date...just "when it's done, it's done"
Quoted from vdojaq:You do that all by yourself? Really?
Where did I say that the programmers build the games? Shifting focus to programming means a shift in priority.
That literally makes no sense considering one has nothing to do with the other.
Quoted from vdojaq:I am very sorry that common sense is confusing.
To you, clearly! 
Vdojak- you don't get it. Telling programmers "work faster" isn't the answer. The problem is resource management from the inception of a title. Unfortunately Stern often starts programming very late in the design phase, and it's just not enough time. To create something creative, people need enough time. They didn't have enough time on Kiss and they're still working. It will be done when it's done. Brandishing the whip accomplishes nothing...in fact sometimes it slows people down because it stresses them out or pisses them off. I work with artists on tight deadlines...sometimes due to the nature of the project, the deadline is unreasonable. I can yell "faster faster" till my eyeballs pop out - but that won't change the reality of "a man can only do so much".
Quoted from robotron:I don't understand. there are probably 10s of thousands of I phone apps and thousands of programmers. yet stern cant write code on a pinball in under a year? I mean you have your pin expert/designer tell the code writers, we need this to happen when the metal ball hits this switch etc etc. I used to work for a licensed electrician, he would come to work place with a chalk and mark everything he needed done and we would go to town. he would go on to next job. when we would finish he would certify the job with his license. its called delegating.
Creating fun is different than what an electrician does.
Quoted from vdojaq:Please tell me where I said "tell the programmers work faster" Again, you guys are making shit up!
When nothing you say makes sense and everyone is telling you that - it's not us, it's you. 
Quoted from robotron:try playing your pin unplugged than
There are a lot of horrible analogies in this thread.
Lets recap:
-Coding pinball has nothing to do with factory production
-Coding pinball is different than coding iPhone apps
-Coding pinball has literally nothing to do with how an electrician approaches their work.
Quoted from vdojaq:I see where you are coming from. You decided to use deflection, because you could NOT answer the question I posed.
It's OK by me, it just proves that you want to make something out of nothing at all. I have made my points through common business sense all because I would like Stern to focus on code issues.
Your question is unanswerable because your premise makes zero sense. YOUR EXACT WORDS:
Quoted from vdojaq:Gary Stern orders his management team into into his office and says "Guys, our line production is down(quantity, not shut down) due to supplier issues that are out of our control. Since some of you(his management team) have some extra time,
Who has extra time!? The coding teams do not have extra time because the line is down! You made a direct correlation between the line and coding ability.
Quoted from vdojaq:I would like us to concentrate on figuring out what we need to get our programming department the ability to get game code more complete and out faster."
And there it is..."get it done faster". There's no actual solution for doing such a thing...just Gary saying to go fast lol. Creating something like pinball gameplay doesn't work that way! When code isn't done, only one thing is at fault: Not enough time on the schedule before launch. Post launch and those programmers are playing catchup while also working on new projects. It'll get done when it's done, management saying "faster" will not accomplish anything.
Quoted from vdojaq:You have a severe case of faulty reading comprehension
Projection. When one person here goes to bat for your take on this, you'll have some ammo against me. Until then...go away.
Quoted from robotron:are you related to gary stern?
fact, i paid 7600 for stern kiss le with beta code
fact, 8 mos later and no code update
fact, get me my new code (in time) and I will be a happy returning customer.
fact, at this point I will never buy another nib stern.
I'm not condoning the code situation. I'm just explaining the reality of it.
Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:And with all due respect...it will never change when people like yourself just accept it and don't demand more. As a community, we have the ability to unite and become influential "lobbyists" and possibly someday create a paradigm shift in Stern's thinking towards its business practices.
What can you do? Buy or not buy. That's it, really. If you buy, be patient. Waiting for your game to rock kinda sucks - but lately Stern has really shown that they're not gonna let games die. Avengers and WWE updates are proof they care. They're behind the deadline...but they care.
Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:Granted...buy or not buy is probably the greatest influence we have with Stern...but I'm pretty sure someone within Stern's management, if not Gary himself, reads a lot of what is posted on Pinside. If the overall vibe of this community is interpreted as we're not happy, but we're going to live with it...Stern won't change a thing in the way they do business. But maybe, just maybe, if the overall vibe of the community is we're fed up and we're not going to take it anymore...and with all of the new up and coming pin manufacturers...Stern might be forced to face the reality the change is necessary so they don't become the next IBM. Bottom line...accepting it the way it is, nothing will ever change...expressing our displeasure, could at some point bring about change.
Creating "commercial gaming art" like pinball isn't an exact science. They have to keep the line moving....if they delayed every game until they were to the enthusiasts satisfaction, they wouldn't have product to build and sell. The truth is, most players aren't going to notice the stuff we notice. So, the games can be built, sold and enjoyed by the masses. The good news is, Stern does listen to their hardcore buyers and get the games where they need to be...eventually. From what I understand, Kiss had a very short design process...if John Borg whipped out the design in a fraction of the time other designers get, then that also means the programmer had less time to figure out the rules - so it makes sense why Kiss is pretty bare bones and why MNpinball is saying the update is going to be pretty huge.
Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:Totally agree...my argument isn't that they released KISS and other pins with incomplete code, but instead the untimely manner in which they release updates. I don't think anyone here believes Stern is releasing code updates with lightning speed...some believe it should be faster...and some just accept that it's not and never will be. I just happen to be one of those people that believe it should be faster and I also believe that if we were united in that opinion as a community, we could bring about change.
Of course we'd like it to be faster...but these are human beings. There are only so many hours in a day. They're doing what they can do.
Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:This will be my last post on this subject, at least for a while, because I think I've expressed my feelings as well as I possibly can. But I would like to respond to your last post by saying you are correct when stating, "there are only so many hours in a day". But I don't believe you are correct when saying, "they're doing what they can do". There are plenty of "human beings" that have the ability to write code...Stern just needs to hire them!
This is game creation, not making widgets. More people doesn't always help when doing something weirdly specific and specialized like pinball.
Quoted from vdojaq:So Stern could throw out code 1.05 right away to sell those $400 toppers, but I can't have a simple and basic code update 1.06 for a basic sound? Gee, my 1979 KISS can make those sounds! That simple gesture/update would have appeased many KISS owners until the next update.
One thing is clear - Lonnie doesn't like to do incrament updates. You have to wait a bit, but get one mega update.
Quoted from capguntrooper:Heck they have yet to finish Wheel of fortune. So sad. I am straight up making the JJP move myself and am glad I didn't get in on a GB with all that drama. I can not imagine the blunt trauma that will surround BM66.
WOF was a "different era" and the main reason it wasn't finished is because it was Keith's game and he's no longer at Stern. I think what Stern did with Avengers - finishing an out of production game years later - shows that people shouldn't worry about Kiss. You'll need patience....but I doubt it will be left for dead like WOF.
Quoted from Whysnow:it has been proven you can not trust anything they say unfortunately.
Stern is now in Missiouri territory. "see it to belive it"
Sure, the situation sucks....I just don't they're going to abandon games when customers are actively pointing out bugs and unfinished elements. Might take forever, but Avengers is proof that they listen and act.
Quoted from Razorbak86:1. Wrath of Olympus = 10.0
2. Dialed In = 10.0
72. AC/DC Pro = 1.62
73. Metallica LE/Premium = 1.21
How can you expect your feedback to carry any credibility with Stern employees?
LOL how are those numbers even possible!??!!? That's some troll-ass game rating. I think Ghostbusters is a garbage fire...but my rating ended up as a 5.3 lol
Quoted from Whysnow:Those are MY genuine ratings. I like to rate for ME and nobody else.
I have found that I tend to use the whole spectrum form 1 to 10 and many people dont rate anything below 5. I genuinely like the games I like and find both ACDC and Mehtallica to be pretty boring.
Nah, you have to go REALLY out of your way to get ratings that low. That's just basically going 1 1 1 1 1 1. I literally HATE Ghostbusters, but I still had to give it good marks for art and sound...if I just 1 1 1 1 1'd it, I'd be trolling it...like you have.
Quoted from Whysnow:back on track...
anyon actually have some other ideas for how you would like to see KISS polished out to be a better game?
Sure, as long as they're not yours!
Quoted from DCFAN:Wow. Talk about spamming the ratings system.
Two can play at that game 
Quoted from konjurer:Oh my freaking word! First of all, a NIB KISS game just needs to be adjusted like every other freaking Stern NIB game. My KISS Pro NEVER does a SDTM (well maybe 0.05% of the time). Second, ALL pins have an element of sending a ball SDTM.
A controlled kick from a VUK, saucer, or kickback should NEVER got STDM. If it does, that's poor design.
Quoted from konjurer:GB is WAY worse that KISS with the drains, airballs and such and people just overlook those facts on GB.
What? No one overlooks that on GB! It's a huge design flaw & one of the key critiques and reasons that people end up disliking GB.
Quoted from PinMonk:It's not uncommon. The Sparky magnet from Metallica Premium will sometimes throw the ball SDTM, and due to the uncontrolled nature of the feature there's not much that can be done to change that.
Difference between a magnet and a kickout. Random vs. designed to shoot somewhere specific.
Quoted from Deez:They have no business reason to update the game again
Yes they do. Any unfinished game will affect sales of new games. No one wants to gamble on their new $5k-$15k pinball machine being left for dead. The business of finished code always goes beyond a single game.
Quoted from Deez:I disagree - the majority of pinheads I know barely scratch the surface on the rules of the game. Most people just suck at pinball. I'd honestly be curious to see how many people complaining about the Kiss code that have actually seen everything in the game. I know I haven't
That's not the point. Games should be finished. Most people probably never finished Super Mario Bros...but if the character went down a pipe and nothing happened - that wouldn't be cool! Any video game that is buggy or unfinished is DESTROYED by the gamer community. You know Kiss is unfinished from the second you start! "Choose a City" ....does nothing. I'd rather play WOF where the unfinished stuff would have been the wizard mode I'd never get to anyway! LOL
Quoted from Metengo:Hello to all.
What i as a GoT-owner absolutely not understand:
I read Kiss Code is not finished and not the best.
Since nearly one year a thread with thousands of posts....
Why is Kiss higher rated here on pinside Top 100 than GoT, where the majority (including me) is absolutely happy about the code (OK, a little last update would be more than nice).
???
Art goes a long way. People always rate hand drawn art higher than Photoshop...especially horrible Photoshop like GOT.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:At least they got it right with the GOT LE art.
Eh...it's OK. Points for being painted...points removed for it just having 5 characters who are just staring into space. That's my problem with all the GOT packages...they're just "people staring". They're all pretty boring...and the playfield looks cheesy and cheap on all models. To be honest, I don't think Kiss's art is that great either...but when people rate games, they prefer that style - and that's why I think Kiss would have higher ratings than GOT. Although I'm sure some people think it's more fun...so there's that.
Quoted from PinMonk:I agree. I'd buy it immediately, but I think the concert footage is going to be a problem.
ColorDMD always finds a way! They colored some concert footage on AC/DC (like Angus mooning in the match sequence) before they got their whole "live action dots" thing down with Iron Man, Spider-Man, Avatar, and Tron.
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah, they can do digitized, but they need the source video like they had with Iron Man, Spiderman, etc. The problem with KISS is they don't know where that exact footage is or came from. At least that's as I understand it.
It's really hard to color live action footage without reference - but as far as I know, AC/DC was done by hand and without reference.
Quoted from PinMonk:Well, if there's a way to do it without the source, I'm all for it. KISS would be awesome in color.
It's like colorizing an old black and white movie. It's time consuming and perhaps not totally accurate...but it works!
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