They are left for dead. If anything, they have moved on to the great money grab. If they do anything further on Kiss it will be a very minor bug fix.

If that is all we get after all this time, it will be a real kick in the teeth.

There are signs that Stern are changing with all their new hires and that is why I am optimistic but I am also a realist. I guess we will see.

The code updated has been mentioned in our monthly address. It will be a huge update addressing some software issues plus a few more added in modes with perhaps a new song...
Stay tuned !

The flame still burns for "God Gave Rock and Roll to You".

Hopefully Rock City Multiball Wizard Mode gets a LOT of work. For an end of game wizard mode, it's really sad. Heaven's on Fire is WAY better and way easier to get to.

Does Kiss have an equivalent to Aerosmith’s Elevator multiball ?
All shots are lit, you hit one of the shots then the elevator and that shot then is done. You have to do this for every shot to complete it.
I like that multiball.

The best thing to do is hold our money, I gave up long ago, and sold my KISS LE, but I sure as hell won’t buy another Stern game, PERIOD, until a real Kiss update is released. Patrick Powers can KISS my ass

Hotter than Hell mode is like that, but in reverse. Hit a drop target, hit a lit shot, repeat. But it's not a multiball mode. I don't think any of the multiball modes are like that (Demon, Lovegun, KISS Army, Heaven's On Fire, or Rock City). But I was only to Rock City a couple times and I barely remember it because it seemed so blah and unfinished.

Elevator MB is the best thing about Aerosmith, but wasn't enough. It's just too much like KISS with a color screen and flash animations.

Haven't got to RC yet but heard it is pretty unfinished.

KISS is just a feel good pin, but just hope it gets finished off nicely.

If KISS had got the Maiden love, it would be off the charts good!

Yeah....that’s the whole thing with Kiss. I think most agree the shots are good. The rules are a little shallow....it’s just missing the wow factor that may be improved with some polish and tweaking of the code....and some god awful animations need to be fixed. But it is really the pin I enjoy most. The throwback art is awesome.

But I am gonna say this....Stern won’t even fix the fallout on Metallica....”Smash 4 balls for multiball!” so if they won’t fix that there is little hope any minor fixes will be addressed on any game....pretty sad.

The thing about Metallica is Lyman LOVES it. There are more updates for that coming for that one. I wouldn't worry about that at all. I do wish there was one more multiball on that one, though. After playing Iron Maiden where you can pretty easily chain multiballs, I'd like a bit of more that kind of action on Metallica.

Been listening to Keith Elwin's interview on H2H.

So refreshing to hear how he will immediately change scoring on a mode if it is being under utilised by players.

I thought of KISS and how say Black Diamond will never be picked by players as it's probably the hardest to complete.

If KISS had got the attention to detail of Maiden, then maybe Black Diamond would be loaded with points to encourage more risk/reward when choosing what songs to start with.

Pretty much all tournament players start with Deuce or Lick it Up.

Would be great if this is addressed in the final update - he says hopefully

I've found the City Modes! They're in Houdini. New York, London, Paris, Sydney, and Chicago jail escape modes. Basically, they are hurry-ups in Houdini. Something this simple could have been super easy to add. How sad.

Exactly. I still think it's stupid to choose a city if it's not going to change the way the game is played. Sure, I can just plunge regardless of the city, but I'd like it to do at least something if I change the city. It doesn't have to re-invent the entire game, just offer something.

Code coming soon. Stay tuned !

Where have I heard this before?

We currently have allocated one of our designers whom are currently adding some finishing touches.. Keep an eye on our Facebook page for an announcement soon. !
Stay tuned !

For Kiss code?

I heard that for WWE too and it never happened.

I do think there’s an update coming some time, the big question is what’s it going to contain.

Stern have said multiple times that there is a KISS update this Summer.

They do seem to have been focusing more on code this year so hopefully it will be a sweet update.

This is a great point... hold your money and only buy NIB games that have code completed to a level that you consider to be appropriate. Buying incomplete NIB games does nothing to motivate Stern... but they’ll get the message quick if folks decide to hold!

Gonna hold on to my money until they remove the legal clause in their manuals stating ghosting play fields on NIB games is normal. I will only buy HUO at this point, no other pinball companies have that policy and I will only buy from a manufacturer that stand behind their product.

For the city modes they could have added a high score per city, kind of like how NBA Fast Break offers high score by team. It wouldn't change gameplay at all, but at least it would give a cosmetic reason for city selection to exist. Plus everyone likes putting up their initials. I'm not really a developer other than some SQL but I can't imagine implementing something like that would take much more than an hour or two.

I've been impressed with how Stern has been more visible, consistent and vocal on code updates, I have no doubt Kiss will get an update this summer as promised! Can't wait!

Looking forward to it. Soon as that new code drops and people start playing those KISS LE/PREMs, I foresee a lot more broken star child plastics.....better get protected folks.

I played one on location this weekend in Denver that was broke.

Its not a question of IF, but WHEN!

I bet, everytime the ball came out of that area it got shot to the glass

Most on this thread complain about why there haven't been any updates recently. I owned the pro for about a year and thought the game was great. The shots are more satisfying than ACDC (I have a pro), and the rules are more like a 90's williams/ballys title. Why does every game need to be incredibly deep? The shots and theme are what make this game really fun. Rules are good too. If you don't like the simplicity sell it and use the money to buy a game that has a deeper rule set. I suspect the same people that complain about the simplicity will complain about the complexity of a more deep game. Impossible to satisfy most these days.

This game is worth more than the majority of pros so sell it and but a deeper game for less and stop f**ing complaining!

What is wrong with hoping a great game could be made even better with the final update?

Rules are good but the game would benefit from more polish - more call outs, tidying up the DMD images etc.

And then look at Maiden and see how many Champion awards and compare to KISS.......

Don't you want the game to be made better???!

KISS is a simple, great shooting game. Would appreciate an update, but I'd be really surprised if it makes a noticeable difference in gameplay.

AS is also a simple game, great shooting game.

Nothing epic about the rulesets, but the games are still fun. If you want an epic ruleset that makes your brain hurt, pickup a Star Wars!

snaroff

Agree - it's one of my all time favorites now.

Polish and some Champion awards would be enough for me - and the bug fixes of course.

Buddy just made me a couple huge 3’x5’ kiss translite banners for the gameroom!!

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Got 2 extras if anyone is interested! $50 each

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PM sent.

I agree, but I also think expectations need to be reasonable. I think Stern should fix reported "bugs", but I don't believe at this point it's reasonable to expect additional functionality. This game is already really fun imo.

I'm a software developer and I can confirm that coding is very expensive. I also have a degree in economics and I understand that as a business it is not feasible to invest more into a product than expected return. Keep in mind any enhancements they make to the game will introduce additional faults, ehich will cost more money to fix. Where will this money come from?

Kiss is already an awesome game. There isn't much they can do without a significant investment to improve the game. I won't hesitate to buy the game back at some point even if code stays the same.

If you like maiden better sell your kiss and buy one.

Why not have both?

Programming Champion awards is not complex and won't introduce more bugs. Same with tidying up animations, adding call outs to Kiss Army MB etc.

And Stern do need to support their products as otherwise they lose their customer base.

If you are a software developer and have a degree in economics, you'll understand that software "updates" are at the core of almost any product. Phone apps, car apps, TV apps, audio apps, operating systems, firmware, etc. are *constantly* being updated over the Internet. In many instances, automatically. Companies consider this a cost of doing business and improving their product.

If a company like JJP can "find the money" to update software, Stern certainly can! Not about economics or even business model...this is about *motivation*. Unfortunately, Stern's company culture regarding updates is wildly dependent on the lead programmers *motivation* to push for updates. It's been well documented over the years that Lymon Sheets goes the extra mile (even if it means working "after hours") while some other programmers don't. It's just a crap shoot, which is why this is frustrating yet very predictable!

snaroff

i feel that the new coders will tackle this. GotG is 1.o Maiden is 1.0 ST just had a code update. Not much left that code use an update. GB, KISS and maybe GoT.

Serenity needs one.

Not really a crap shoot. Always bet on Lyman, NEVER bet on a Lonnie game. Ever. Dwight is somewhere in the middle. The new blood Stern hired still has to make a name for themselves as "Lonnie-ish" or "Lyman-ish". I'll be watching, for sure.

Let me get this straight. You think all stern developers should work extra hours to make every game perfect even if the game is no longer in production and results in the company losing money? How would you feel if your boss came up to you and said we need you to work ten extra hours per week indefinetly with no additional pay to make something minutely better? Your business model would put Stern out of business within a couple years.

Are you telling me that Stern doesn't update games that are out of production? fwiw, I no longer have a "boss", because I have no problem working extra hours to make my product great.

I can tell you are here to defend/argue, not acknowledge that updating code with bug fixes and minor enhancements is the rule for most products on the planet, not the exception. Profitable companies (like Stern) can accomplish this *without* requiring employees do it in their spare time.

vireland has it right...all about the lead programmer in the pinball industry (not specific to Stern). Keith Johnson is another programmer (currently working for JJP) that is constantly perfecting his games. I never discussed this issue with Keith, but I imagine some of the work is "after hours". People who love their work, work overtime (without their *bosses* intervention). It's called loving what you do...

snaroff

Yes, if a game is unfinished.

Otherwise Stern would slowly lose their customer base. Business 101.

I am thinking about picking up a KISS Premium... I had a KISS Pro when they first came out, but got rid of it 8 months later due to non-existent code support at the time. I'm kind of hoping the 'summer update' is a decent one, but do we even know who is doing it?

What really needs to be fixed or what is currently missing from the game? Do the large inserts do anything or not?

Rob

Make sure you get protected when you buy your LE/PREM and don't let this happen to your machine.

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