Knock knock
Who is there?
Kiss release date.
Kiss release date who?
IT'S BEEN 752 DAYS SINCE KISS WAS RELEASED WTF!

Kids have Where's Waldo.

Adults have Where's KISS code.

Well, in all fairness. Minneapolis pin said in the next couple weeks. That was about a week ago. Based on Stern's code release page they tend not to release code for different games on the same day. There are many instances where code was released for different games the following day, but I agree that releasing code the day before a long weekend is not a good idea. I am still optomistic that it is comming sometime next week.

stern can KISS my ass!

This was 8 days ago. Maybe he thought he was posting in the BM66 thread.

I did some asking around. Stern has committed to a code release this year but not super soon. But this is good because I had heard no more Kiss updates before!

JJ

Thanks for asking. Still just wow, this wait is beyond ridiculous at this point.

So does this mean Minneapolispin is no longer a credible source?

Nah, Stern changes plans very last minute all the time. Things get pulled late or moved up suddenly. So many times I've been assured by someone who would know that something is going to happen and then it doesn't, but it doesn't mean that it wasn't the actual plan. Stern just shifted gears on them.

Like when Aerosmith was supposed to be the new Spike LCD launch game and "someone" thought BM66 would be a better decision very late in the game?

Wow. Just when I was looking forward to breaking open a bottle of the good ripple and celebrate playing newly coded KISS. Is it just me, or is it unprofessional to release code so long after the prior code? Is it just me, or have quite a few Stern customers been making it known for over a year that there is a genuine need for updated KISS code? Is it just me, or does this kind of bs really hurt the pin's ranking and resale value? So now in May we are told the code should be done - anytime by the end of the year! (I Christen thee "The Flying Wasp" - Stern takes wind out of sails, champagne bottle breaks mast)

I don't know for sure but I don't think it was planned for this soon atleast recently.

JJ

Correct.

You know the update will be crap, strictly bug fixes.

This reminds me of the following:

code release for halloween
code release for thanksgiving
code release for christmas

.. when KISS first came out and of course none of that happened. There a few specific people that keep claiming to have inside information and know when code is going to be released. Don't believe the hype, it seems to be mostly BS.

Rob

Thanks JJ...more proof that you're the best distributor out there.

How distributors aren't on the phone yelling at Stern about the code support for this game is beyond me. This game should have been a huge seller.

So to all the KISS owners, is it that the current code is that bad, or is it more that they're just taking forever to release an update? I put about 7-8 games on a KISS pro on location last weekend and had a lot of fun. All in all I've played one about 20-30 times and I like it, I plan to get one eventually. I guess if I owned one I might discover a lack of code, but to the average player it's pretty good as is.

Current code is very buggy, extremely fun to play and has a lot of depth. It's been a year and if your on the fence for buying one this is the time to pull the trigger! Prices will go up with polish and if they add anything from the wishlist thread and do something with the cities the perception will change. This is my favorite title by Stern and if it takes a little longer to get it right I'm OK with that. Just glad to hear it's in the works!

I would say I'm an average player who's had KISS for about 6 months and I'm not close to mastering KISS. Even with relaxing the rules it still a challenging game for me. I think it's a rush to play and plenty deep for a player like me. Go check out the rules on tilt forum. I think you'll find they're plenty deep.

There are bugs that need to be fixed but nothing super serious. It just need a good polishing. It's just about 80% complete - missing animations and depth in the wizard modes. I think the modes could be more creative and tie into the theme better.

I replaced some of the KISS songs with songs that completely rock out so it's quite an experience.

It's fun and relatively deep. There are about 15 bugs that need to be handled (check out the 1.28 bug thread here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kiss-code-128-bugs-and-wishlist-for-final-update ) and some polish would be nice, but it's pretty complete as-is.

The code is very basic. We all know Lonnie can do a good job, it's just will he do a good job? He did a great job with Aerosmith. I was expecting crap code, but I admitted that he did a good job. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was shocked by that.

As a KISS owner, I see 2 games (KISS and Aerosmith) with great art packages, great layout that's very similar, great music, KISS has the better callouts, both shoot great, but one has good code and the other is meh code.

Basic? How can KISS be more basic than AS when KISS has more features and more multiball modes, and when AS is a subset of KISS' "shoot the colored arrow" song play? Your conceit makes no sense at all, and I've played both KISS and AS premiums extensively.

Aerosmith has the hidden Jacky/joker thingy on the shots. Every completed song in Aerosmith gives you a super mode. There's strategy to the Toys multi-ball. Coins add depth to the mode.

Just because a game has multi-balls, it doesn't make it a good game. Just look at the resale value of KISS...it's 100% due to the code.

KISS has those supers, too. It just awards them via backstage pass. It makes more sense the way AS does it, but it's not like AS has something new. It was copied from KISS and assigned to song completion instead of the scoop. News flash, there's strategy to pretty much all the multiballs in KISS.

The only reason KISS prices are where they are is because people thought it was abandoned and some are hung up on the cities not doing anything besides callouts. We'll see where Aerosmith values are in 2 years (and if there's any extended code support). So far it's not off to a great start on the route I help maintain. X-MEN LE out-earns it consistently. Wonder if it's a similar story for other operators.

Realistically it was abandoned for a while, just like many Stern games are. The game obviously wasn't finished and everyone had to wait almost a year(?) for code to add missing features. That really killed interest and sales.

People are told that it was never meant to be more than callouts. Do you really think Stern would admit anything else? They might as well say the cannon inserts on ACDC were never meant to do more than light up. Designs change and what was maybe intended at one point is no longer in the plans.

AS will be probably the same in 2 years as it is now. I don't think anyone expects different and if they do, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. But, at least the code in AS is in far better shape than what KISS was when it first shipped. It doesn't have inserts that (still) don't do anything.

I sold my KISS pro long ago, before the last update that incorporated the playfield multipliers and colossal bonus inserts.

Rob

I put some time on an AS premium last week also and after all the glowing reviews I was a little disappointed by it. Granted I probably only have about eight games on one, but I thought it was just good, not great. Still preferred KISS.

To be honest we all hear inside info and there is always a grain of truth to every rumor. But plans change and delays happen. That's why when ANYONE posts something I don't get excited until it happens.

I didn't get my hopes up that code would drop so nothing to be disappointed about.

But when people post stuff saying "inside info" it's like a cock tease and people love to troll threads and get people worked up. Bottom line is time and time again code on Stern games is lacking and full of bugs they don't fix. If code issues bug people enough they need to wake up and give Stern the big Screw You and quit buying the next shiny NIB pin that comes out. Why support a company that refuses to change, seems to have QC issues as of late, and continues to charge more?

No incentive for Stern to change until we as consumers quit buying. Until that happens expect more of the same.

Agree 1000%. Unfortunately the line for Star Wars is growing as I type this.

every single stern pin has a "where is the code thread" when are people going to learn? i won't buy new in box,
ill get an aerokiss in a couple years when code finished.

I'm a big sunshine and rainbows guy when it comes to Batman '66, but as of today (v.75 for B66) KISS is so far ahead of Batman '66 it's not even a discussion at this point.

I don't really disagree with anything you said. But to say that AS is deeper than KISS code is ridiculous. That was my point. It's just not.

Sorry to get everyone's hopes up. I want new KISS code too. Big announcement coming the first week of June, so I'm wondering if the new code is taking a backseat to this other thing.

I never said AS was deeper. I said it was in a better state (polished) than KISS was at release.

Rob

You couldn't possibly mean the SW announcement that is due next week?

No, no. I'm just saying that my original reply was to someone who said AS is deeper than KISS, which it is most definitely not.

The song rules themselves could be considered more 'developed' since the super modes are now built into the songs, rather than random awards from a scoop shot. I really like how that ties game features together a bit more and maybe(?) has a bigger impact on the scoring. Although I haven't played AS yet so I'm just going by what I read and see in videos.

But, this is a thread for where the floop is the KISS code... Is spaceman still the hardest member to qualify?

Rob

Mmm, but AS timing out the songs is a step back from KISS. On a music pin, I want to hear the song I select continuously until I complete it or select another, not have it cut off after 30-60 seconds. That said, I agree that AS tying the supers to the songs is definitely better than the random scoop awards on KISS to get them, as I said before. So it's essentially a wash between those two.

And KISS still has 5 multiball modes, while Aerosmith has 3. No one in their right mind would conclude that AS is a deeper, more complete game than KISS as they both stand.

I believe that this statement is true, they got so much production and call outs from Paul and Gene it makes sense. I think with the growing precepcion of code being incomplete without the integration of the cities that this next code drop will address this! I hope it does!

I know when I had my KISS pro I emailed Stern and asked what the cities were supposed to (or going to) do. I never got a reply. Their lack of forthright communication with owners is what causes some of these problems. Cities is really kind of a non-feature so I understand why people thought there might be more to it. Games are routinely released with incomplete code so why would anyone think cities just wasn't implemented yet?

Rob

Aerosmith has 2 wizard modes. Medley for starting all the songs. Final wizard mode, I forgot what it's called, for when all songs are completed. This is exactly how the Tron sea of simulation and portal work.

In a song, hit the scoop to extend the timer.

More multiballs doesn't mean the code is good. Aerosmith code is a ton of fun to play.

You're changing the conversation. The POINT is KISS Code is currently deeper than Batman'66 (MUCH deeper) and Aerosmith (as quite a chunk of AS code was clearly copied from KISS and tweaked).

Watch the PAPA tutorial video showing most of the modes and a lot of strategies since it seems that you haven't played enough KISS to see what it has to offer:

When you make silly, easily disprovable statements like:

It makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

Batman code is better...I come to that conclusion very easily...the new Batman code is a lot of FUN to play.

Considering the fact that I've owned a KISS LE for 2 years now, I think I put on a good amount of time to know the code is lacking.

Nice comment about saying I make retarded statements...way to be mature about a discussion.

In that PAPA video, show me where the depth is in the modes.

This whole KISS vs AS code is kind of stupid. Depth doesn't equal fun. And fun is in the eye of the beholder. I think the KISS code is fun. I think KISS got a bad rap early on and maybe deserved the bad rap like every other modern Stern. I think us KISS owners that love the game are just a little weary of the KISS-code sucks group-think, echo-chamber. At the end of the day, it really only matters that we like it.

As for the cities... who gives a f@#* about the cities! My city is not in there. I would rather have bugs fixed and the existing modes cleaned and enhanced. I would take better theme integration and animations over doing something half-assed with the cities. Didn't Stern recently say that they never planned to do anything with the cities other than callouts? That is more believable than not since NOTHING on the playfield supports the notion of cities or touring.

6084314bf18212715fdcc3c5c43e40e8 (resized).jpg

When someone makes an OBJECTIVE statement that Batman'66 code is "already better" than KISS code, the only conclusion I can draw is that they don't know what they are talking about. It's simply not true.

Now, if you say Batman'66 is more FUN than KISS, that's a SUBJECTIVE statement, and while I disagree, I can't disprove it, because that's the nature of subjectivity. It's fun FOR YOU, subjectively.

See the difference?

- Bat Turn
- To the Bat poles
- Gordon target during phone sequence
- Modes completed only when making the scoop shot

Those right there already add more depth and strategy to Batman that KISS doesn't have.

What strategy does KISS have? Instead of making immature comments and repeating the same thing over and over about it having 5 multi-balls, try answering that question.

The KISS community is dying for an update...there must be a reason for it.

If you don't understand KISS strategies even OWNING one, I can't explain it to you - grab a rule sheet. The one for KISS is probably 3-4 times as long as the one for Batman'66. That should be your first clue about depth of game. I mean, KISS is no Lord of the Rings, but it's EASILY substantially deeper than Batman'66 as they both stand.

And news flash, you finish each song mode on KISS by hitting the scoop to pick the next song. That's not some super special Batman'66 feature.

Again, if you're having more FUN with Batman'66, that's a subjective thing and there's nothing wrong with that. But to say OBJECTIVELY Batman'66 code is better than KISS is simply not true.

I see modes only completed when making the scoop shot went right over your head. That is part of the strategy in Batman. Extending the modes pays off later in the game. This is called strategy, which adds depth to the game. It is 100% clear that you're bashing Batman code without understanding anything about Batman code.

I asked you one simple question: What strategy does KISS have? You couldn't answer it...thank you for finally proving my point.

Stay Tuned !